MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #4

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I would like a Mod/Admin to come in and tell us what we are allowed to say about these latest developments (parents no longer cooperating with LE, and lawyering up).


ooo...they got a lawyer! ..i missed that tidbit....it's about time.
 
there has to be a reason WHY no one put up posters...it is the first thing that is done..why not in this case..what makes this case different than all the others..NO POSTERS-it just does not sit well with me..


Immediately after my nephew disappeared from a rock concert my sister was on the scene with posters and walking as much of the area as possible looking for any sign of him and questioning anyone she saw. Handing out photos to any and all. She was in a frenzy and would not stop until he was located.....Good ending to the story.
 
Capt. Young: "The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM


Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3ggy9GU
I'm taking this statement as meaning the parents know more then they are willing to give to the police! :waitasec: Anyone see it this way?

And I interpreted it in the opposite way.....that the parents have been GIVEN intimate information about what LE is doing to find the child......who knows what was intended by the statement???


jmo
 
I have noticed some similarities between the Ramsey case and the Irwin case:

1.) In both cases, the parents provided LE with a list of suspects.
2.) In both cases, LE announced in the press conference that the parents weren't cooperating.
3.) In both cases, there was a divide between the parents and LE.
4.) In both cases, there was a lot of discussion about what the victim (and the parent in the JBR case) was wearing.
5.) In both cases, there was a hinky piece of evidence (missing cell phones and ransom note) that either means a very bold intruder, or was purposely done to point to an intruder with those characteristics.
6.) In both cases, it's possible that the mother accidentally killed the child, and the father helped to cover it up.
 
Re-posting timeline before I rest my eyes again.


Prayers for baby Lisa and prayers for the family to do the right thing....no judgement from me yet, just prayers.


As always, hugs to you all!!

Lisa Irwin Timeline

Monday October 3, 2011

Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.

UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.

3620 block of North Lister 64117

CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011

Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.

UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.

Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG


~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)

_____________________________________________________________________


Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)

Father is electrician that works nights. Just started job on this night.--Jeremy

Mother is a SAHM--Debbie

Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.

**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”

**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.


Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.

UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.

Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.

*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-aut...rch-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story

Tuesday 9:25 p.m.

Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter 9:25 P

**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.


Wednesday October 5, 2011

9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.


** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv


**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”


NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz



Next news conference sometime this afternoon.

2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.

Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.

**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.


Thursday October 6, 2011


**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.

**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:

~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)




http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old

** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.

**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”

**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.

**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.

***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lis...scussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story

**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4



Originally Posted by BeanE [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7196439#post7196439"]
clip_image001.gif
[/ame]--thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM

Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM

Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM

Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM


http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg



"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG
 
Could this mean that the phones could have been an excuse provided to explain why there is a time lapse between the father arriving home and the call to the police? Could that be the line of questioning that LE directed toward parents that caused the rift? It just seems that there was a pointed effort by LE to shed some doubt on the cell phone theory.

I think the timeline is concerning for LE, yes. I think the dad's statement about when he got home compared with when 911 was called raised a red flag, and it was raised even further when the family suddenly tried to explain that away by saying all their phones were stolen. LE may have tracked the phones down or at least confirmed the call came from one of those phones, or just confronted the parents on this issue and scared them.
 
Just saying that because they said they will have another statement tomorrow. What can they say tomorrow that they can't say now? And why delay anything at all?
Sounds like they want some time to get their ducks in a row (whatever those ducks are), with the benefits from whatever their attorney will do/advise. Or just have some more time to do whatever.

Perhaps wishful thinking, but *IF* either of their stories hasn't been completely truthful, maybe some truth will come to light.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if we learned more tonight.
 
Has MSM reported that they got a lawyer? I didn't see that??? Thanks.
 
Immediately after my nephew disappeared from a rock concert my sister was on the scene with posters and walking as much of the area as possible looking for any sign of him and questioning anyone she saw. Handing out photos to any and all. She was in a frenzy and would not stop until he was located.....Good ending to the story.

I am so glad your story had a happy ending!!
but I am thinking..did someone offer to help the parents to make and hang posters and they said no-did no one offer..why-I just can t think of a reason why no one would put up posters..I would want my child's pic everywhere!! It just does not seem right!!
 
Whoever that lady is speaking on behalf of the family, spoke very frankly and even thanked LE for all they are doing. I for one believe that the family is still cooperating with LE so what is LE up to??? WTH????

Wish I knew. It seems to me that LE got pissed and like someone just posted, is taking their ball and going home. I keep waiting to hear something...anything that will make me think ahhhh, now I get it.
 
And I interpreted it in the opposite way.....that the parents have been GIVEN intimate information about what LE is doing to find the child......who knows what was intended by the statement???


jmo

And I took it still a third way.

I took - The Irwins know the home, the child, their lives and all the goings on in their day, their associates. This is intimate and important knowledge. Their deciding not to cooperate puts us at a disadvantage.
 
Has MSM reported that they got a lawyer? I didn't see that??? Thanks.

All I could find was that someone stated that the family member from Texas was a lawyer and I never saw anything to verify it. I think that this was then jumped to say that they had "hired" a lawyer. I could be wrong but this is the way I understand it.
 
Oh lord, the sirens are going off now.
On Thursday night, FOX 4 attempted to contact the family at their Northland home, where an unidentified woman claimed that the family had "a deal" with a national news network and refused to talk to the media.
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lis...rch-for-missing-baby-20111006,0,2371703.story

A deal? Already? I hope to God that doesn't mean they are selling their story. Anyone in their position would be paying for the information to get out there, not taking money.
 
I have not read all of the posts on this thread yet, but am catching up.

I think it is okay now to say what I have been thinking all along since LE has announced that the parents are no longer cooperating.

LE has always made it a point to state that the parents are cooperating. They have never stated that the parents were cleared, IIRC. We all know LE works from the family on out to clear people. They have not been able to totally clear the family at all. They only stated that they were cooperating.

Now if we de-personalize this situation and just look at what we know, there are plenty of red flags, IMO. We know that it has been stated that the window was not the point of entry. We know that the fiance came home from work and found the lights on in the home and the front door unlocked (that has to be a first for a kidnapper!). I read that the far right window had been tampered with. IMO, LE and the FBI could absolutely determine whether the window was the point of entry such as the dust on the outside window sill, etc..

Then comes the story that the fiance checked the boys and baby Lisa's room determining that she was gone. Why would he rush in and tell Debbie that baby Lisa was gone???? How would he know that she had not taken the baby to bed with her because the baby was sick???

Jeremy and Debbie rush around the house looking for baby Lisa. Why? I will never believe that a 10 month old could climb out of a crib.

The parents then find that 3 cell phones were missing. Okay, but LE and the FBI would be able to get an emergency warrant to get the cell phone records, IMO, in order to look at recent calls and to track the cell phones themselves. I do not understand the missing cell phones, the lights on, and the front door unlocked left that way by kidnappers.

Baby Lisa had a cough. Could she have overdosed on cough medicine accidently? Did they panic and dispose of baby Lisa? I agree that this mother is totally heartbroken and frightened. She has lost a beautiful, happy baby and baby Lisa was her only daughter. Even if an accident happened, she would still be heartbroken and the sobbing be real.

I'm sorry, but this whole story had me in doubt from the beginning and I knew I couldn't come right out and say it. Now that the parents are no longer cooperating with LE, I am even more afraid that something happened to baby Lisa right there in her own home. There is a story that does not make sense, and LE & FBI cannot seem to clear them. LE and the FBI probably started with the really tough questions the parents either could not answer or did not want to answer, IMO, and they stopped cooperating. Captain Young had to know what the general public would think when that announcement was made.

Please, God, let me be terribly wrong.

MOO, MOO, MOO.

I am right here with you! It doesn't make sense to me. None of it. My hink meter is working in overdrive right now, and I don't apologize to anyone for that.
 
I have yet to find any msm confirmation that the family has a lawyer
 
If you go to the Lisa Irwin page on facebook, they have several posts that list where you can get fliers etc, so I think they are doing this, we just aren't hearing about it.
 
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