NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#28

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Isabellnecessary said:
So after frantically texting his wife (not) and calling around to everyone (not) and then before calling the police, he cleaned the car.
Awesome.
Click to expand...

Aaahhhhh, is this what tipped the police off when they arrived at their home ? Soapy water, possibly had run down driveway into gutter, ground still damp around car, inspection of car found that the rear area was damp - indicating VERY recent cleaning ?
Sorry if this has been covered in previous threads.


MOO
 
LauraMars said:
That is strange that he would mention the app. I know many people have them and use them, but it sounds a bit try hard to me.
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He just wanted the police to know that he'd gone to extreme lengths to find her... by using the app. My hero
 
Tbh I find the sign off on the second message weird. "love G". I never sign off on a text but if I was concerned about someones whereabouts I'd be calling them non stop not texting and certainly not taking the time to sign off. Just sticks out to me. Moo, mpo, and all that jazz.
 
DrWatson said:
Nope - not asking anyone to help lawyers pick stuff apart - I'm sure they're very capable of doing that themselves.

I'm not trying to lead anyone "like fools". But I am trying to suggest that many on here seem to have already judged GBC based on the evidence that has been available via the media. Now you may all be perfectly right - and I tend to think along the same lines. But what I am also trying to do is to suggest - tactfully - that there are a lot of closed minds that are not open to other possibilities. Anyone with a scientific background would know that to bias one's beliefs to favour a hypothesis is not good science.

I also want Allison to get justice, so please don't imagine for one minute that I'm trying to steer anyone's thoughts in any particular direction. But many peoples' thoughts are already pointing in one direction only.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings, as they say, and I have already posed a couple of alternatives a few pages back - one being about ABC meeting somebody - unnamed - and what transpired after that - who knows?

Also - why the circuitous route via the Kenmore roundabout (unless it was to meet up with somebody, eg NBC) when the most direct route to Kholo Creek would be along Rafting Ground Road, as most locals would know? If GBC intended from the outset to take her to the scout camp or close by, then why go via Kenmore?

See? I'm quite happy to act as devil's advocate... :banghead:

And, it would seem, that I'm happy to be seen as a bit of a stirrer too, maybe? All in good spirit, of course ;)
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I had wondered about the driving route, and wondered if there were less cameras along the route that police believe was used on the way to Kholo creek,


MOO
 
DrWatson said:
OK - back from doing "stuff" :)

@Makara - sorry, it was the way I worded it, but I wasn't implying that the PMs were from you. What I should have said was "thanks for the welcome, and also to those who sent me the PMs".

It is certainly looking bad for GBC, and with the blood being confirmed, apparently, as being from Allison, that is another big question to answer. Of course, there is also the question as to WHEN the blood got there.

So, while I still think the evidence is pointing strongly to GBC as being the guilty party, I am continuing to keep a corner of the mind open to twists and surprises that may yet come along.
Click to expand...

wow your mind has corners......sorry having trouble with mental picture :ufo:
 
Isabellnecessary said:
So after frantically texting his wife (not) and calling around to everyone (not) and then before calling the police, he cleaned the car.
Awesome.
Click to expand...

... and made lunches... probably cleaned the toilet and did the dishes, ironed the uniforms for the kids, then took his cape off and called the police.:hero:
 
Notes About the Luminol Test

In addition to iron and iron compounds, other substances can catalyze the luminol reaction. Copper and its compounds, horseradish, and bleach also cause the solution to glow. So, you could substitute any of these materials for the drop of blood or potassium ferricyanide in the demonstration. Similarly, the presence of these chemicals at a crime scene affects testing for blood. If a crime scene was washed in bleach, for example, the whole area would glow when sprayed with luminol, making it necessary to use a different test to find traces of blood.

Source: http://chemistry.about.com/od/glowinthedarkprojects/a/luminolblood.htm

So to confirm it was actually blood and indeed Alison's, they would have had to perform further tests before stating definitely that it was blood and was Alison's.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/luminol3.htm

Typically, luminol only shows investigators that there might be blood in an area, since other substances, including household bleach, can also cause the luminol to glow. Experienced investigators can make a reliable identification based on how quickly the reaction occurs, but they still need to run other tests to verify that it is really human blood.
 
Aberline_1979 said:
Very interesting that we have two large-ish patched of (Allison's) blood on BOTH sides of the vehicle. What do we all think about that?

Just a couple of personal theories here:

a) Allison's hands were removed post mortem (as a lot of members suspect). As far as I know, this would still result in some blood loss. If the driver and/or passenger change the position of the body during the drive, that could account for the blood on both sides of the vehicle.
Click to expand...

Were they? On another site, a poster who attended the bail hearing said that her hands had NOT been removed.


b) Is it possible that Allison's FEET were cut off as well? Obviously if Allison scratched GBC repeatedly his skin would get underneath her fingernalis, and hence he would have motive to remove her hands.
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Reading the web, bacteria grows rapidly and destroys evidence under fingernails. At the ten day mark, there'd be nothing left with which to ID anyone.
Not that GBC would know that.

The luminol test has found blood which has been WASHED OFF... right? There's micro amounts of it present...

So possibly ABC was given drugs which created bleeding in her stomach or throat... which is where the blood marks are from?
Too much paracetamol or ibruprofen?

What signs of violence are at the house?

Any?
 
linette said:
He just wanted the police to know that he'd gone to extreme lengths to find her... by using the app. My hero
Click to expand...

Yes I agree...he was just trying to set up an alibi for himself.

Seriously, just an ounce of common sense says a guy who's cheating on his wife, has three other women in the wings, doesn't bother sending texts to his wife if she's late back from somewhere....neither would he bother signing off a text message with "love G"....he simply would not do this unless he was forced to do it...setting up alibi.
 
Opinionsgalore said:
I had wondered about the driving route, and wondered if there were less cameras along the route that police believe was used on the way to Kholo creek,


MOO
Click to expand...

As far as I know, there are NO cameras along the route that would be the most direct - along Rafting Ground Rd to Moggill Rd then turn right. I don't think there are any cameras along that way - happy to be corrected if anyone knows of any.

But there IS a very obvious camera at the Kenmore roundabout - people in here have even tuned into it on the web, as have I. Great view of the bus stop too!

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Traffic-cameras-by-location/Traffic-cameras.aspx?name=Kenmore+-+Moggill+Road+-+Kenmore+Road+%28East%29

And again, most locals know about that camera, as it was put in only a couple of years ago, along with traffic lights on the Moggill Rd approach, to allow cars to get out onto Moggill Rd in the morning peak hour traffic, when the traffic coming from the right is endless.

It would be a reasonable presumption that GBC would know about the Kenmore camera, and would also know that there are no cameras along the direct route as far as I know.

So - why go via Kenmore???

And just on the point of those rumours about missing hands and/or feet (or worse - yes, those rumours are around too) - it's not THAT easy just to "remove the hands". A surgeon could do it, a butcher could do it, and somebody with a meat cleaver could do it. But if just a knife was supposed to be used, then it ain't that easy - it's not the sort of thing you would do quickly. I don't know where those rumours started, but I have heard locals saying things like that with great authority, and "from the horse's mouth", reliable sources, etc etc.

As I said above - we need much more information from the autopsy, rather than speculating.
 
BJsleuth said:
Notes About the Luminol Test

In addition to iron and iron compounds, other substances can catalyze the luminol reaction. Copper and its compounds, horseradish, and bleach also cause the solution to glow. So, you could substitute any of these materials for the drop of blood or potassium ferricyanide in the demonstration. Similarly, the presence of these chemicals at a crime scene affects testing for blood. If a crime scene was washed in bleach, for example, the whole area would glow when sprayed with luminol, making it necessary to use a different test to find traces of blood.

Source: http://chemistry.about.com/od/glowinthedarkprojects/a/luminolblood.htm

So to confirm it was actually blood and indeed Alison's, they would have had to perform further tests before stating definitely that it was blood and was Alison's.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/luminol3.htm

Typically, luminol only shows investigators that there might be blood in an area, since other substances, including household bleach, can also cause the luminol to glow. Experienced investigators can make a reliable identification based on how quickly the reaction occurs, but they still need to run other tests to verify that it is really human blood.
Click to expand...

Also, Luminol dilutes, as far as I know, the blood that is already there. You can't repeatedly Luminol something over and over. So if there's already some dilute bleaching of an area, you spray Luminol, then you test, I believe you can risk ending up with no discernable DNA...

Tricky stuff!
 
Greg said:
All good funny looking sock puppet person :) Im sure the Doc didn't get to where he is now if he couldn't cop a bit of constructive criticism along the way!

:seeya:
Click to expand...

Its a little shame the criticism wasn't that constructive, found the Doc to be quite engaging and clearly stated in his thoughts that 'the evidence was compelling', a point missed by most in the race to hit reply.

But you're right, he's a big boy!
 
Isabellnecessary said:
Also, Luminol dilutes, as far as I know, the blood that is already there. You can't repeatedly Luminol something over and over. So if there's already some dilute bleaching of an area, you spray Luminol, then you test, I believe you can risk ending up with no discernable DNA...

Tricky stuff!
Click to expand...

Luminol reacts to iron in the blood.
 
Isabellnecessary said:
The luminol test has found blood which has been WASHED OFF... right? There's micro amounts of it present...

So possibly ABC was given drugs which created bleeding in her stomach or throat... which is where the blood marks are from?
Too much paracetamol or ibruprofen?

What signs of violence are at the house?

Any?
Click to expand...

<snip> hmm, aspirin, requiring a trip to the chemist, with some alcohol forced in to wash it down chipping a tooth in the process? .. just speculating. I don't know if that could actually do it!
 
The part I cannot understand is why he would have rung about the life insurance when he knew the police had declared his house a crime scene and would be obviously watching his movements...Both his and his parents houses had been searched and items had been taken away... Public opinion had him as the main suspect from day one...Yet he rings about the life insurance...Unbelievable!

Just cannot comprehend it...even the bluntest chisel in the toolbox wouldn't do something like that and I don't put him in the category of being dumber than dumber to do such a thing somehow...Doesn't make sense to me...
 
DrWatson said:
Nope - not asking anyone to help lawyers pick stuff apart - I'm sure they're very capable of doing that themselves.

I'm not trying to lead anyone "like fools". But I am trying to suggest that many on here seem to have already judged GBC based on the evidence that has been available via the media. Now you may all be perfectly right - and I tend to think along the same lines. But what I am also trying to do is to suggest - tactfully - that there are a lot of closed minds that are not open to other possibilities. Anyone with a scientific background would know that to bias one's beliefs to favour a hypothesis is not good science.

I also want Allison to get justice, so please don't imagine for one minute that I'm trying to steer anyone's thoughts in any particular direction. But many peoples' thoughts are already pointing in one direction only.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings, as they say, and I have already posed a couple of alternatives a few pages back - one being about ABC meeting somebody - unnamed - and what transpired after that - who knows?

Also - why the circuitous route via the Kenmore roundabout (unless it was to meet up with somebody, eg NBC) when the most direct route to Kholo Creek would be along Rafting Ground Road, as most locals would know? If GBC intended from the outset to take her to the scout camp or close by, then why go via Kenmore?

See? I'm quite happy to act as devil's advocate... :banghead:

And, it would seem, that I'm happy to be seen as a bit of a stirrer too, maybe? All in good spirit, of course ;)
Click to expand...


I think the point is this: Human nature does not allow most of us to sit on the fence. We make decisions or assumptions based on a given set of events or data. We have been given a set of facts by QPS, and insights to into the behaviour by persons of interest. These facts have led QPS to point to GBC as the culprit. They have led me, along with a lot of others, to also believe that GBC is guilty. If we had been given alternate facts, or if in future are given further facts, that conflict from the ones we have now, then I am sure that most of us are mature enough to admit we went with a wrong judgement - based on the facts we had.

However unless there are other contrary facts, we are able to 'suppose' who we think is the most likely perpetrator. It's called making a considered judgement.

I think this forum is for that purpose, and it seems odd to me that if we want to consider the facts, make a judgement, but then say to ourselves "No, that can't be right, because we can't prove it", then what's the point of being on here. This forum is for putting our suppositions forward. The fact that most of us consider GBC is guilty, is just the way it is. We tend to explain why we think that (over and over and over).

Those that think differently can of course make their statements as well, but hopefully they then state why they think so.

Not trying to put anyone down, but just trying to get my thoughts out there.

Thanks for your input though Doc. I'm enjoying the debate.

:jail:
 
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