2012.02.07 - 911 Tapes Released

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dovebar said:
I believe the responsibility lies much further up with DFS and the judge, and legislators, who should never have allowed this kind of visitation given who the father was. They are the ones who, in calm moments, had access to research about the danger of this situation - a father who is a murder "person of interest" who's just been denied visitation.
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Thank you. I place the blame on these same people as you. I know some will claim that the Constitution protects the rights of the parents and that the "higher ups" upheld the Constitution.

I don't think these people will find much comfort now in their protecting JP rather than those children. And they had LEEWAY but chose to not exercise it to the benefit of those precious boys.
 
Cortne said:
I ask you to seriously reconsider? From my experience dispatchers are not that friendly and emotional on the job. In fact, IMO you are lucky if you get one that is very chipper on the job. This industry hits close to home, just sharing. Of course you are entitled to how you feel and I do not blame you.
Lots of ball dropping happened here. I dont think it would have made much difference had he been nice. I also hope this male dispatcher has a good support group as I am sure he feels like a major jack aaa**!! And might be job-less too. He should have been more helpful for sure.

Group hug to all and RIP Susan Charlie and Braden.


* Never take anything personal *
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BBM

I don't think it's the lack of a bubbly personality that bothers people-- and I would imagine that you are trained to not be emotionally invested. I think it's that most of us expect a more expeditious attitude when 911 is called. If you're calling 911 you probably don't have the luxury of time.

I'm not judging, I can only imagine how stressful of a job that would be-- but you're a 911 dispatcher, not a customer service rep at a call center, y'know?
 
Mgorules said:
BBM

I don't think it's the lack of a bubbly personality that bothers people-- and I would imagine that you are trained to not be emotionally invested. I think it's that most of us expect a more expeditious attitude when 911 is called. If you're calling 911 you probably don't have the luxury of time.

I'm not judging, I can only imagine how stressful of a job that would be-- but you're a 911 dispatcher, not a customer service rep at a call center, y'know?
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Bingo! 8 minutes is alot of critical time in a crisis situation, much like the Golden Hour when someone has a stroke- there is NO time to lose! He wasted it asking the SW stupid questions about her supervisory role, and what color her car was- like that would help the first responders, NOT! He played God by assigning her call a low-priority dispatch, despite her telling him she thought it was life threatening and that she smelled gas, and that the boys were crying!!! (I would've emphasized the word "danger" and gotten the address immediately, but that's me.) LE or fire could've arrived before Josh set the fire, broken down the door and taken him out if needed. The boys might have been severely injured, but lived...
 
LinasK said:
That's exactly what I guessed-he deemed it a low priority and didn't take the social worker seriously. This guy should be fired, not retrained, or given a pass because he has a stressful job/had a bad day, yeah he had a really bad day! His inexcusable delay may have made the difference between life and death for the Powell boys.
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I agree---

I understand there are limited resources, but this isn't someone calling from a McDonalds complaining that they were shorted a nugget. I would think this call would have taken precedence over most, if not all, other calls coming in at that time. But who knows what else the 911 center was dealing with that day.

Also, and I apologize if this has been asked, but was this particular call center outsourced to another municipality? They've done this out here in the midwest as a way to pool resources and save money on contracts. I wonder if maybe that was the case here, and that is why this dispatcher didn't have seem to have a sense of urgency?
 
Mgorules said:
BBM

I don't think it's the lack of a bubbly personality that bothers people-- and I would imagine that you are trained to not be emotionally invested. I think it's that most of us expect a more expeditious attitude when 911 is called.
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I agree that SOME 911 operators are for lack of a better word, antagonistic during some calls.

I was in a position a year or so ago to have to call 911 because my mother told me she was going to kill herself. I don't live anywhere close to her. When I called 911 in her town I was blown off.

As hard as this is to believe, they told me she was an adult woman and could make her own decisions.

I tried my best to explain that she has severe mental problems and got what amounted to "have a nice evening and don't call us back" approach.

Eventually, two hours later LE showed up to check on her, and since she's manipulative, as so many mentally ill people are, she convinced them that I was the one causing problems.

I got a phone call back from 911 or someone in LE in her town threatening me with arrest if I ever called them again. And also that I would be billed for any further responses to her address.

Unbelievable. But proves that 911 is NOT all that some people believe it to be.
 
concentric said:
---------
I agree with the posters who say there should have been more than one social worker with the children.

If there had been two, perhaps they would have collectively kicked the door in.

Powell was able to overpower the one person delivering the children. He planned this out, IMO.

JMO.
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This just makes no sense to me. If it is decided that two case workers are required to supervise a parent/children visitation because of safety reasons, then there should be no visitation period. Or one with a bullet proof glass partition with parent/children on opposite sides.
 
rotterdam said:
This just makes no sense to me. If it is decided that two case workers are required to supervise a parent/children visitation because of safety reasons, then there should be no visitation period. Or one with a bullet proof glass partition with parent/children on opposite sides.
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And Josh Powell should have been restrained in a straight jacket so he had no chance of even touching those poor children.

Since the judge erred on HIS side by insisting that he be allowed to SEE the kids, it should have been with him in a straight jacket and not allowed to be anywhere near them without him being in restraints and allowed no direct contact with them.
 
rotterdam said:
This just makes no sense to me. If it is decided that two case workers are required to supervise a parent/children visitation because of safety reasons, then there should be no visitation period. Or one with a bullet proof glass partition with parent/children on opposite sides.
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I understand your point but, looking at it in the context of parental rights vs. child protective services professionals involved and their suspicions of a potential (violent) incident, I think having two supervisors on every court-ordered supervised visit is the way to go IF/WHEN there is not enough to go on to actually prevent the visits altogether - JMO~
 
Mgorules said:
BBM

I don't think it's the lack of a bubbly personality that bothers people-- and I would imagine that you are trained to not be emotionally invested. I think it's that most of us expect a more expeditious attitude when 911 is called. If you're calling 911 you probably don't have the luxury of time.

I'm not judging, I can only imagine how stressful of a job that would be-- but you're a 911 dispatcher, not a customer service rep at a call center, y'know?
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you are a customer service rep. You are representing the police/fire/ambulance and your job is to get the information quickly and dispatch the appropriate responders in the shortest time possible. You should also be letting the "customer" know that you are taking their concerns seriously and letting them know what you are doing about the situation.

This 911 dispatcher did not take the social worker seriously and ignored very important information such as the gas smell. The high risk custody situation was also ignored.
 
After seeing pics of JP during last Wednesday's hearing, I was struck by the fact that his eyes were empty and dead.

They were the eyes of a man who had "lost" and would take anyone and everyone down with him.

My heart still breaks that it was his own kids that he decided to sacrifice to protect his own sick and depraved "secrets".
 
Dr.Fessel said:
OLYMPIA, Wash. - A state senator says police in Utah sent a "warning" to Washington state authorities about the welfare of Josh Powell's two young sons several days before he killed them and himself in an inferno.

State Sen. Pam Roach, R-Auburn, says the information was sent to the state Department of Social and Health Services on Feb. 1, "at a time when something maybe could have been done to prevent what eventually did occur."

She says she has formally requested a copy of the information that was forwarded to DSHS.

“It appears DSHS was forewarned about information regarding Joshua Powell and the treatment of his boys,” said Roach. "DSHS needs to come clean with what they knew. Having information pertinent to the welfare of the Powell children, and not acting on it, may have actually contributed to their deaths."

A statement released by the West Valley City, Utah, police on Feb. 1 said that detectives had "discovered information specifically related to their (Powell) children's welfare," but it did not say what the information was.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/...S-about-welfare-of-Powell-sons-139012979.html
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:what: Wow, just wow. So essentially every agency involved in Washington state dropped the GD ball... :banghead:

ETA: Makes you wonder how they handle "low-profile" cases involving children!
 
dovebar said:
I agree. I'm not sure why it is forbidden for us to discuss the female social worker's response - perhaps in shock - but fine to bash the dispatcher. As we listen, it is easy and natural to have reactions to the way each of them sound. He seems clueless and dense and argumentative while she seems not to have called immediately, did not have her phone ready, and in her tone and in the first things she says to him, does not really raise an alarm. She sounds miffed that the door was shut in her face. BUT these are the reactions of people who are trying to rapidly process, mentally, events occurring around them that they cannot envision before the crime occurs. Only after the fact can we Monday morning quarterback and wonder why they couldn't put it together - but they were lacking the piece of information that was JP's brain.

I believe that they were each inadequately trained to deal with this once-in-a-career or life situation and believe the responsibility lies much further up with DFS and the judge, and legislators, who should never have allowed this kind of visitation given who the father was. They are the ones who, in calm moments, had access to research about the danger of this situation - a father who is a murder "person of interest" who's just been denied visitation. The whole scenario was a recipe for disaster and unfortunately, the people we have on tape are taking the brunt of our scrutiny. The best we can hope for is that the people responsible higher up will be held accountable, especially for changing laws and regulations, and that this will lead not to blame of a single individual but to protection of a whole lot of other children in bad circumstances.
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You are so right. Here we are scrutinizing the actions/reactions of two folks low on the totem pole. When the whole situation was created by much higher paid folks that made IMO very poor executive decisions resulting in an impossible situation for those two workers. One of them could have been easily killed too.
Kind of follows a typical failed project fiasco . Panic & hysteria, search for the guilty and punishment of the innocent.
 
rotterdam said:
You are so right. Here we are scrutinizing the actions/reactions of two folks low on the totem pole. When the whole situation was created by much higher paid folks that made IMO very poor executive decisions resulting in an impossible situation for those two workers. One of them could have been easily killed too.
Kind of follows a typical failed project fiasco . Panic & hysteria, search for the guilty and punishment of the innocent.
Click to expand...
low on the totem pole??? Just what is the role of the dispatcher if not to take down critical information and dispatch quickly??? His role may have caused the deaths of the boys in that 8 min. delay in which he played God and assigned the call a low-priority for dispatch!!!!! He was NO innocent, and deserves to be fired! His situation was not "impossible" and if that is the case he definitely should not be a 911 operator!
 
nomoresorrow said:
:what: Wow, just wow. So essentially every agency involved in Washington state dropped the GD ball... :banghead:
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In my mind, and JMO, yes they did. Every agency that SHOULD have protected the boys were more concerned with the SOB than the kids.

Again, just my humble opinion.

And I am just disgusted enough to HOPE that every one who contributed to this travesty of justice never have another good nights sleep or
another good meal, or another "good" anything for the rest of their lives.
 
Unfortunately we can't turn back the clock - Charlie & Brandon are gone - But I hope beyond hope that their tragic deaths shake up & wake up every professional working within CPS, the court system, and ERer's to treat every case and every call as though this case/this call could be a Charlie & Brandon Powell-type situation!

ETA: Court system = Judges
 
nomoresorrow said:
Unfortunately we can't turn back the clock - Charlie & Brandon are gone - But I hope beyond hope that their tragic deaths shake up & wake up every professional working within CPS, the court system, and ERer's to treat every case and every call as though this case/this call could be a Charlie & Brandon Powell-type situation!
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I truly don't mean to be disagreeable, but this situation started with the judge who put JP before the kids.

CPS was FORCED to carry out the judge's orders. And that is sad.
 
(BBM)
LinasK said:
low on the totem pole??? Just what is the role of the dispatcher if not to take down critical information and dispatch quickly??? His role may have caused the deaths of the boys in that 8 min. delay in which he played God and assigned the call a low-priority for dispatch!!!!! He was NO innocent, and deserves to be fired! His situation was not "impossible" and if that is the case he definitely should not be a 911 operator!
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I agree LinasK, His/her role is far from low on the totem pole. 911 dispatchers are the gatekeepers and they hold a heck of alot of power in that position!
JMO~
 
Mgorules said:
BBM

I don't think it's the lack of a bubbly personality that bothers people-- and I would imagine that you are trained to not be emotionally invested. I think it's that most of us expect a more expeditious attitude when 911 is called. If you're calling 911 you probably don't have the luxury of time.

I'm not judging, I can only imagine how stressful of a job that would be-- but you're a 911 dispatcher, not a customer service rep at a call center, y'know?
Click to expand...

I'd say it was a lack of critical thinking.
 
Basmat said:
I truly don't mean to be disagreeable, but this situation started with the judge who put JP before the kids.

CPS was FORCED to carry out the judge's orders. And that is sad.
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Oh, I agree with you Basmat but I think there has to be safety-checks in place all along the way - at least until judges become more than human and less capable of making mistakes or become mindreaders. While I'd like to see serious changes myself within this p-poor system, I'm still not content to leave it all up to the discretion of one judge. Every agency involved with children needs to put safety mechanisms in place IMO.
JMO~
 
I want to blame a whole lot of people here, but even more I want to believe that this story has struck so hard that the agencies involved are taking the steps to retrain and replace the problems in their fields.

I would love to hear a public apology from the dispatcher because I am sure he was having a bad day, or hates his job, or busy playing a game on his phone, or whatever it was that stopped him from responding correctly to the dire phone call that day. I am sure he is also rocked by what transpired. We only heard all these people "before" and haven't heard their "after", kwim?


I do want the Judge to step down. She ultimately had the power to directly affect the lives of these boys, and she could be threatening for other families in the near or distant future.
 
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