2009.10.09 Duct Tape Photos From Remains Released

Incredible work Bond!!! I just wish I had not seen the duct tape covering her whole face before going to bed. :(
 
BJB, the tape and the angle you suggest it was applied gives a lot to think about. One thing that stuck out to me was your number 8. If Caylee's face was tilted to the right when the tape was applied that would suggest that the tape was applied prior to her being placed in the trunk if she was lying on her left side in the trunk.

I've never thought that Caylee was killed or died in her car seat so to me that leaves her bed or some other place that she lay while sleeping or sedated (or even seriously injured). The duct tape being in the garage doesn't really seem important to me. It may have been put back by KC or, it may have been left in KC's room and put back in the garage by GA or CA. They are so organized that I can see them doing this if they came across duct tape in her room that belongs in the garage.

So much to think about but, FWIW, this tape angle, head tilted to the right thing makes me more sure that she wasn't lying in the trunk when the tape was placed on her. I can easily envision her head tilted to the right with the angle/placement of the tape and I do believe she lie on her left side in the trunk.
 
Nice work, BJB. Thanks, this is very well thought-out. The idea of that duct tape covering a little child's eyes is very disheartening to say the least. It might be wishful thinking, but I believe and hope that the tape was applied when poor Caylee was already dead, or at least asleep, as you suggest. Small mercies, and all of that.
I'm off to find those posts of duct tape measurements using "handy dandy calipers", and to see how they line up with your results. Sorry I can't remember whose work that was... off to find out! Thanks again!
 
Good golly, Miss Molly! Or, rather, Mr. BJB! So am I getting this (generally) right: 1) mouth-ish 2) eyes-ish 3) nose-ish?
*Shudder*
1) Don't talk 2) Don't look 3) Don't be
(jmo)
 
Apparently need thread-searching lessons. Can't find, must sleep. Manana.
 
Here you go TG. "The Duct Tape Match #3" thread, post 394 (and good reading thereabouts too).

BJB I am simply in awe of you. :blowkiss:

JWG...you make my head hurt! lol

Okay, I've been looking at this and here's what I've come up with:

It's all from the same roll (lmao)...seriously though,

The right edge of Q62 was not attached to the left edge of Q63.
The right edge of Q63 was DEFINITELY attached to the left edge of Q64.
The right edge of Q64 was MOST LIKELY attached to the left edge of Q104.
The right edge of Q62 MAY HAVE BEEN attached to the left side of Q66.

I will now inundate you with pictures hoping you can see what I see. On my little handy-dandy screen calipers the read-out between two consecutive Henkel brands in the same location laterally is 260.

q62measure1.jpg

q62measure2.jpg

q62measure3.jpg

q62measure4.jpg

q63measure1.jpg

q63measure2.jpg

q63measure3.jpg

q63measure4.jpg

q64measureleft.jpg

q64measureright1.jpg

q64measureright2.jpg

q66measure1.jpg

q66measure2.jpg

q104measure1.jpg


*NOTE ON Q104 - if you take into account the creases the measurement over to the first Henkel stamp from the left closely matches what is needed to be torn from the right side of Q64 - reading would be 225.
 
BondJamesBond..I thank you for your passion in finding out what happened to Caylee...you should be retained as an expert on this matter...so disheartening to see it as you've shown us..I just can't imagine what poor Caylee must have been feeling, had she been awake..my heart just aches for this precious child and am angered at the mere thought of a mother doing this to her own child. Seeing it makes it that much worse but so appreciate all that you do and of course the others along with you...truly a team effort!

The ME didn't state there was tape covering Caylee's eyes, her nose and mouth yes....I don't recall the eyes, is this something uncovered within the documents???

So heartless! I believe the jurors will feel the same way...:furious:

Thank you...
 
Good golly, Miss Molly! Or, rather, Mr. BJB! So am I getting this (generally) right: 1) mouth-ish 2) eyes-ish 3) nose-ish?
*Shudder*
1) Don't talk 2) Don't look 3) Don't be
(jmo)

Your post makes me think...see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil...have no fun. Poor precious Caylee. :rage:
 
BJB~ that follows with the rage/anger scenario...sigh...ug...I think I am going to go hug my babies now.

It isn't like the pieces of tape were placed...slowly and methodically...but rip, place, rip, place...
 
Has the possibility that she used the paper towels to wipe the grave wax off of Caylee's face to apply the duct tape ever been discussed?

The fact that she covered her eyes, if what is shown above is true, makes me lean towards an after death application of the tape. It appears as though she was blocking her face from being seen and/or keeping fluids inside.
 
Has the possibility that she used the paper towels to wipe the grave wax off of Caylee's face to apply the duct tape ever been discussed?

The fact that she covered her eyes, if what is shown above is true, makes me lean towards an after death application of the tape. It appears as though she was blocking her face from being seen and/or keeping fluids inside.

Why not just use a plastic bag? The tape would not keep the fluids from leaking as they would still leak out from under the tape edges. Plus other areas of the body would be leaking far more than the face. The taping was PERSONAL. The eyes, nose, mouth....very personal, not a stranger. This was done by someone who wanted to send a message. A stranger who did not know Caylee would not have bothered to even wrap her in a blanket, much less bag her. Plus a stranger would have dumped the body immediately not held onto it as defense is suggesting. jmo
 
bondjamesbond, I cannot imagine how you did this, emotionally that is. The dedication from you, AZLawyer, JWG, valhill and others is much appreciated.

Anywho, is there any way this info can be placed in a specific thread up in the reference section for future reference so we won't have to go back and sift through or search?

Last question for ya, again where was the image of the heart sticker found and how does it relate to this latest info you gave us? I know I should know about the sticker but I am short on time today to search for it. Thanks for all everyone has done to contribute to this.
 
Why not just use a plastic bag? The tape would not keep the fluids from leaking as they would still leak out from under the tape edges. Plus other areas of the body would be leaking far more than the face. The taping was PERSONAL. The eyes, nose, mouth....very personal, not a stranger. This was done by someone who wanted to send a message. A stranger who did not know Caylee would not have bothered to even wrap her in a blanket, much less bag her. Plus a stranger would have dumped the body immediately not held onto it as defense is suggesting. jmo

BBM

LambChop, I couldn't agree more!

I waited on BJB to post his 2nd part before I went to bed. It bothered me so badly, I couldn't sleep. An hour later, I finally got up and took a Simply Sleep.

In re. the sentence I bolded - That was exactly what shook me to my core when I first saw this last night. This method of taping was PERSONAL. I didn't really have an opinion before about this being a rage killing - I do now. IMO, this tape wasn't applied to stop decomp fluid. The garbage bags and laundry bag served that purpose. No stranger is gonna tape a baby's face, they're just gonna dump the body. And not 15 houses away from the child's home.


I think KC's message went something like this:

'Sorry sweets, but I gotta go live MY life and you're cramping my style. Oh, and it seems everyone needs a reminder that I am the princess of this family. One last kiss from Mommy.' <insert heart sticker>


I have to believe that Caylee was sedated before the taped was applied. If for no other reason than it brings me a little bit of comfort that she wasn't looking into her mother's eyes as this was done.


This visual has affected me more than any other post I have read on WS. I really had my doubts that the jury could hand down the DP. (Actually, I wasn't even sure I wanted it. LWOP seemed good enough for me.) Mitigate all you want, defense. Those autopsy photos are gonna shout louder than anything Andrea Lyon spews out of her mouth.
 
BBM

LambChop, I couldn't agree more!

I waited on BJB to post his 2nd part before I went to bed. It bothered me so badly, I couldn't sleep. An hour later, I finally got up and took a Simply Sleep.

In re. the sentence I bolded - That was exactly what shook me to my core when I first saw this last night. This method of taping was PERSONAL. I didn't really have an opinion before about this being a rage killing - I do now. IMO, this tape wasn't applied to stop decomp fluid. The garbage bags and laundry bag served that purpose. No stranger is gonna tape a baby's face, they're just gonna dump the body. And not 15 houses away from the child's home.


I think KC's message went something like this:

'Sorry sweets, but I gotta go live MY life and you're cramping my style. Oh, and it seems everyone needs a reminder that I am the princess of this family. One last kiss from Mommy.' <insert heart sticker>


I have to believe that Caylee was sedated before the taped was applied. If for no other reason than it brings me a little bit of comfort that she wasn't looking into her mother's eyes as this was done.


This visual has affected me more than any other post I have read on WS. I really had my doubts that the jury could hand down the DP. (Actually, I wasn't even sure I wanted it. LWOP seemed good enough for me.) Mitigate all you want, defense. Those autopsy photos are gonna shout louder than anything Andrea Lyon spews out of her mouth.

I think the high chloroform readings in the trunk may indicate she tried that and it may have killed Caylee. We may never know. But the taping, we know was personal.

When we see KC in court at the hearings, and yesterday when CM requested she waive her right to be in court. She does not want to hear these details. She does not like JP discussing the DP in front of her. Where JS was considerate of her feelings, JP is acting accordingly and telling her like it is, treating her the same as any normal defendant and she is not liking it. What will happen during the trial when KC has to sit there and listen to the discussion about the taping of Caylee Marie Anthony? She will come unglued. I don't think defense will be able to control her and that will be a big problem for them.

jmo
 
I think the high chloroform readings in the trunk may indicate she tried that and it may have killed Caylee. We may never know. But the taping, we know was personal.

When we see KC in court at the hearings, and yesterday when CM requested she waive her right to be in court. She does not want to hear these details. She does not like JP discussing the DP in front of her. Where JS was considerate of her feelings, JP is acting accordingly and telling her like it is, treating her the same as any normal defendant and she is not liking it. What will happen during the trial when KC has to sit there and listen to the discussion about the taping of Caylee Marie Anthony? She will come unglued. I don't think defense will be able to control her and that will be a big problem for them.

jmo

I agree. I never thought I'd see the day when I was grateful for the chloroform levels, but today I am.

ITA also that KC is not going to be able to control her reactions when they start describing the taping. It is gonna be a huge problem for the defense. In fact, it just may turn out to be their biggest problem. She's not going to be able to "MAKE HIM STOP!!!!".
 
Here you go TG. "The Duct Tape Match #3" thread, post 394 (and good reading thereabouts too).
*snipped*

Hi, everyone :wave:

Drive-by posting @ work :whistle: so I can't stay. Would be here kicking this around all day if I could.

I do wanna get something up quickly though:

Personal thanks to ynotdivein :blowkiss: for providing the quote above from the #3 thread. I was essentially MIA on WS last October :bang: and hadn't seen the work that Val & JWG did on this almost a year ago :thumb: BTW, I esp. like Val's callipers...tres cool :cool2: (almost as much as I like AZ's duct tape dress...but...:whistle: that's a different story for an entirely different thread). ;)

FYI: Here's the [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4325908&postcount=314"]post[/ame] JWG kicked things off with to which Val responded in ynot's link above. So...a big TY to ynot for keeping things anchored. Its a good read.

And, in a "good news" sorta way - if I'm understanding Val and/or JWG's conclusions back in '09 - we may have some different interpretations of the sequence. I view this as a good thing...cause I'd like to spend a little more quality time on sleuthin' this out.

I also wanted to comment - albeit quickly - I had to stay away from a focused look @ the duct tape for some time. I just couldn't bring myself to pour over it like I knew it needed to be done. And, as should be obvious from my posts & questions, I haven't been well-versed in duct-tape-o-logy and defer to all the :bowdown: other WS's like JWG, Val, AZ, Muzikman, Beach, Harmony 2, and so many others that have studied it intensely. I'm very prepared to be educated/ informed/ corrected on any & all points of the subject.

Again - in 1/100th of the words I'd like to use to express what I wanna. I apologize if the illustration/graphics I used to illustrate the tape application cause anyone more grief than they've already experienced w/ this case. I struggled to find a way to get the information across w/o being as life-like as I could've easily been. So...it looks crude for a reason, IYKWIM. I said a little prayer asking Caylee for forgiveness at the very notion of doing this exercise...even digitally. In my heart, I think she'd understand that getting to the truth is my intent. Doesn't make it any easier though. And I appreciate that Countzero recognized this element of putting it together. Sorry, Beach, I certainly meant no harm. :blowkiss:

Finally - I wanna acknowledge - as I don't enough. My work is rarely, rarely, rarely, solely my own. If I had to guess it's prolly 10% mine. Unless it is full of mistakes & errors, or just flat wrong...THEN...its definitely 100% mine :D As LivLaughLuv posted above...its all teamwork in my view :grouphug:

And to that end, I caught something looking things over again this morning. In an email from AZ last week she had mentioned something about being able to see the image of Caylee's jaw, etc. in the Q63/Q64 tape while they were still stuck together. I was very focused on matching up the logos, etc. and wasn't thinking at the time about what could be seen, image-wise, in the tape pieces. I must've picked up on AZ wrote in her email when I shifted focus and started making Part 2 (see the graphic of Q63/64) without realizing it. I was flipping the image around so I could show it like it would look from the opposite, non-adhesive side for posting purposes - to make it easier for readers to understand in comparison to the FBI images, since they are of the non-adhesive side...keeping things consistent from a left-to-right POV IYKWIM. When I did this *bam* it became visible to me. It musta been helped along by AZ's suggestion earlier. Anyway...I'm rambling. Props to AZ for making that observation. She also made a comment about Q100 possibly bein' over the eyes too. So...in the interest of proper credit. :bowdown: AZ. Pls throw some "thank you"s to the fine WS's that put up w/ my questions recently about carp they studied months ago :)

Looking forward to seeing if we've interpreted the sequence differently ...'cause I think we did. :waitasec: And maybe...just maybe...some more pics of AZ's dress :D
 
Good golly, Miss Molly! Or, rather, Mr. BJB! So am I getting this (generally) right: 1) mouth-ish 2) eyes-ish 3) nose-ish?
*Shudder*
1) Don't talk 2) Don't look 3) Don't be
(jmo)

(IMO) It's almost as if she
1) covered Caylee's mouth - don't talk/don't tell
2) covered her eyes - don't look/don't see - it's your Mom
(did she hesitate at this point?)

3) covered her nose - don't breathe/don't live/don't exist

(No Signs of Struggles - the pieces lay in the same angle - did not crumple or get stuck on something else because of any thrashing!)

4) Finally give the faceless a kiss goodbye with a little heart

5) Triple bag the trash, dump and walk away forever

No Face
No Child
No Memory
No History
No Problem
 
Again - in 1/100th of the words I'd like to use to express what I wanna. I apologize if the illustration/graphics I used to illustrate the tape application cause anyone more grief than they've already experienced w/ this case. I struggled to find a way to get the information across w/o being as life-like as I could've easily been. So...it looks crude for a reason, IYKWIM. I said a little prayer asking Caylee for forgiveness at the very notion of doing this exercise...even digitally. In my heart, I think she'd understand that getting to the truth is my intent. Doesn't make it any easier though. And I appreciate that countzero (IIRC) recognized this element of putting it together. Sorry, Beach, I certainly meant no harm. :blowkiss:

-respectfully snipped; BBM

Oh please! No apology necessary at all! I understand and appreciate the value of this project and the results, so YES, I know exactly what you mean. You could not have presented it in a more respectful manner. I know you well enough to know this was not easy for you. Caylee would be proud. :hug:

And a HUGE THANK YOU to those involved in helping - ynot, AZ, JWG, Valhall and any others I may have missed. I am constantly in awe of the intelligence and dedication of so many here. I wish I could help more than providing a reference link here and there, but frankly, you guys are in a whole other league than me. :bowdown: Assign me some busy work and I will be happy to chip in to help in any way I can in re. future projects.


Now, AZ post a pic of that dress so we can lighten it up around here. :D
 
This thread is getting harder and harder to read, which I hope means we're getting closer and closer to the truth.

To answer someone's question up the thread, the heart sticker residue (if it was really there) was "near the end" of Q63 (the piece that was put over the top of Q64, which was over the mouth). I don't think we know which end.

ETA: The dress is just a rumor. Pay no attention. Move along.

ETA2: "Q100" referenced by Bond is just the OCSO number for "Q104" referenced by others. So we are still talking about 4 pieces of Henkel tape--3 found on the skull and one at the scene.
 
BondJamesBond: You illustrated your findings with great respect to Caylee, imo.
 

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