IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22

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Barry said:
My current thinking is, that whomever it was that night, it was someone who was not
messed up, and who was thinking clearly. Either one of the POI individuals that had not partied that night, or a stranger.
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I can think of only one person...
 
phantomthought said:
I always thought that could have been the reason for the 4:15 A.M. phone call to DR.Other than the 3 POI and LS he was the only other one that knew what went on at the first party.
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Perhaps checking in to see how she was doing? I imagine it took a little while for these drugs to take their full effect. That, combined with her heart condition/heart medication, could have caused an interaction. That interaction may have been starting to show itself when she was apparently foaming at the mouth (it mentioned in an article), falling out of the elevator, etc. Now its getting worse and she's apparently walking to 5 North. I think whatever happened at the first party did her in.
 
Barry said:
My current thinking is, that whomever it was that night, it was someone who was not
messed up, and who was thinking clearly. Either one of the POI individuals that had not partied that night, or a stranger.
Click to expand...

From the 5 North kids, MB is the only one we know to claim sobriety. I don't think he was involved. Also it's important to note that JW was most likely not intoxicated since he stayed in. I agree that whoever did this was most likely not f'd up bc they would've left evidence.

In most missing persons / murder cases, it's the boyfriend / husband. JW did have plenty of motive - gf is getting f'd up with other dudes and she obviously likes CR in some way or wouldn't be hanging out with him. Even if she just liked him as a friend - a new dude hanging out with your girl late night? Come on that would make any immature / young male jealous.

I still think a stranger abduction is very possible. From btown's history with this sort of thing. Oh, whatever happened to the IU rapist who attacked a woman after LS disappearance or the dude that attacked that woman in broad day light???? Any arrests, etc. I think we ARE giving these kids WAY too much credit.
 
I get what people are saying about how it's usually a boyfriend/family member (someone passionately involved with another) that usually did it. But I don't see JW as the bad guy.

Usually there are tendencies all along for the person to be a possessive a-hole and these are hard to hide, because people comment on their temper, possessiveness, etc. But friends of LS and JW don't paint this picture AT ALL. In fact, JW doesn't seem overly possessive when it comes to LS. He seems to be relaxed and be okay with her having a big social circle and letting her do her own thing. This is kinda rare but does exist - my husband is this sort of person.

Also, when something "big" like this happens it makes a person nervous and jittery and unable to think straight. I think the first impulse/instinct of a friend trying to cover something up would be to put as much distance as possible between LS and themselves (car comes to mind). Even if you do something as innocuous as ding someone's parked car while driving it makes one nervous and jittery and then you have to talk yourself in to leaving a note - sometimes it takes a moment or two. I should know; I'm not always the best driver.
 
I am not entirely sure that they would have to be geniuses or pull off the perfect crime to get away with it like people are saying. If one of them put her in the dumpster while freaking out-they got away with it so far. No cameras capture the area of town where she was last seen or the dumpsters over there. We wouldn't see if one of them took a car anywhere. There are stories all over the place of messed up people of not high IQs somehow managing to get away with murder. Hell, there are cases where people are caught and juries let them off because there is basically not a video of the crime happening.
It doesn't have to be perfect-finding a body can be like finding a needle in a haystack and a lot of times a body isn't found until some random hunter stumbles over it a decade later or something. See how many unsolved cases we have-I promise you they were not all committed by genius criminal masterminds who can pull off perfect crimes. It really feels arbitrary to me who gets away with murder or a crime and who doesn't. Like a matter of luck rather than a result of being a genius mastermind.
 
Almost every person who is missing probably had someone commit the "perfect crime"...whether they are smart, stupid, or just lucky. I don't think it is as hard to get rid of a body where it won't be found as we would like to think. Sometimes they are eventually found, and sometimes, they never are. Sometimes they are found years later, in an area that was already searched, i.e. Molly Bish. They just don't take up that much space...
 
indianagirl315 said:
I dont really have anything new to add to this thread, but I would just like to say hello as I have been lurking since LS went missing. I am familiar with this group of people (Do not want to disclose how I am aquainted as I'm sure these people are reading), but I do agree with those who say HT is hiding something. Her behavior seems quite odd in the way she released information to the media initially and now she has silenced herself.

I am not surprised by the supposed drug use of these people either. . . it is extremely common for smallwood people, especially this group. Xanax is everywhere among students at IU.

I am familiar with Bloomington as I attend school at IU (I am going to be a junior this year) so if you have any questions please ask me.

I just want LS to be found.
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A big welcome and glad your here.I do have one question,what are other students or the towns people saying they think happened to Lauren? Thanks
 
Inspector Gidget said:
A big welcome and glad your here.I do have one question,what are other students or the towns people saying they think happened to Lauren? Thanks
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I hope Indiana girl posts a reply.

FWIW I was talking to a small group of locals who stay informed. They all believe she ODed and the boy(s) hid her. A veteran big city cop who is following the case says: It's an extremely difficult case. Nothing is cut and dry.
 
LittleAMom said:
I get what people are saying about how it's usually a boyfriend/family member (someone passionately involved with another) that usually did it. But I don't see JW as the bad guy.

Usually there are tendencies all along for the person to be a possessive a-hole and these are hard to hide, because people comment on their temper, possessiveness, etc. But friends of LS and JW don't paint this picture AT ALL. In fact, JW doesn't seem overly possessive when it comes to LS. He seems to be relaxed and be okay with her having a big social circle and letting her do her own thing. This is kinda rare but does exist - my husband is this sort of person.

Also, when something "big" like this happens it makes a person nervous and jittery and unable to think straight. I think the first impulse/instinct of a friend trying to cover something up would be to put as much distance as possible .
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I mostly agree. Others have posted that all missing persons would've had someone commit a 'perfect' crime. True. Good points. The only thing I disagree with is that I thought it was 'reported' that JW was possessive, etc type of boyfriend. It's easy to be at that age. Does anyone recall this?
 
Jupiter812 said:
I hope Indiana girl posts a reply.

FWIW I was talking to a small group of locals who stay informed. They all believe she ODed and the boy(s) hid her. A veteran big city cop who is following the case says: It's an extremely difficult case. Nothing is cut and dry.
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I'm glad someone finally stated that. I suspect that is the case. Everyone around her paniced and did something stupid with her body. Now they are so afraid of being charged with murder or arrested for the drugs that they won't speak up and the longer it goes the harder it is to tell the truth.

I think eventually someone will talk if, that is the case. These are college kids not roughnecks running the streets. Someone will have an attack of conscience and speak out. It might be after college or years later but I believe someone will. jmo
 
Melvin said:
I mostly agree. Others have posted that all missing persons would've had someone commit a 'perfect' crime. True. Good points. The only thing I disagree with is that I thought it was 'reported' that JW was possessive, etc type of boyfriend. It's easy to be at that age. Does anyone recall this?
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I have heard rumors of that, but it was always "sources on the internet" and NOT family, friends, or any other hard evidence. I remember a lot of the suspicion about him came from body language and the fact that they likely may have been having some relationship issues.
 
I can't help but feel that the likelihood of this case is she never will be found. But that doesn't mean their won't be a prosecution.
 
Rallihanna said:
I can't help but feel that the likelihood of this case is she never will be found. But that doesn't mean their won't be a prosecution.
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If she is not found, and no one confesses, I don't think anyone will be charged...JMO
 
cluciano63 said:
If she is not found, and no one confesses, I don't think anyone will be charged...JMO
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Nope-not unless they have insane evidence of some sort that they have kept hidden like blood stains all over one of the apartments or some major video evidence. I don't think they do so that leaves confession if she is not found :( Maybe one of them will talk to a friend who will turn them in?
 
Darcyline said:
I am not entirely sure that they would have to be geniuses or pull off the perfect crime to get away with it like people are saying. If one of them put her in the dumpster while freaking out-they got away with it so far. No cameras capture the area of town where she was last seen or the dumpsters over there. We wouldn't see if one of them took a car anywhere. There are stories all over the place of messed up people of not high IQs somehow managing to get away with murder. Hell, there are cases where people are caught and juries let them off because there is basically not a video of the crime happening.
It doesn't have to be perfect-finding a body can be like finding a needle in a haystack and a lot of times a body isn't found until some random hunter stumbles over it a decade later or something. See how many unsolved cases we have-I promise you they were not all committed by genius criminal masterminds who can pull off perfect crimes. It really feels arbitrary to me who gets away with murder or a crime and who doesn't. Like a matter of luck rather than a result of being a genius mastermind.
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even throwing a body in a dumpster has its risks of 1. being seen by someone else and 2. forensic evidence on the body and the perp

had LE done the basics and checked dumpsters, abandoned buildings, storm drains and the like from the outset we would not be having this conversation.

instead LE focused on the students (and I mean more than just some basic questioning) because they assumed or did not want to believe this was done by a stranger. so of course the students backed off.

I would hope they would have checked the dumpsters any way in case there were boiy fluids. even with that some degrade with time so all that grandstanding got them nowhere.
 
Throwing bodies in a dumpster definitely has a lot of risks, but people still do it and somehow get away with it. It isn't impossible or unfathomable to me that something like that happened-literally, someone got lucky and not necessarily with the work of a perfect criminal mastermind plot. Sometimes, LE just cannot confirm the location of a body. It sucks, but it happens.

If I were to criticize them for something it would be not being more aggressive about the dumpsters and landfills. I definitely agree that that left an unfortunate gap in the investigation. At this moment, I am not feeling like they were wrong to suspect and try to clear the pack of men that surrounded her the entire night, however.
 
Darcyline said:
Throwing bodies in a dumpster definitely has a lot of risks, but people still do it and somehow get away with it. It isn't impossible or unfathomable to me that something like that happened-literally, someone got lucky and not necessarily with the work of a perfect criminal mastermind plot. Sometimes, LE just cannot confirm the location of a body. It sucks, but it happens.

If I were to criticize them for something it would be not being more aggressive about the dumpsters and landfills. I definitely agree that that left an unfortunate gap in the investigation. At this moment, I am not feeling like they were wrong to suspect and try to clear the pack of men that surrounded her the entire night, however.
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LE really does not try to clear anyone. they assumed the boys were involved and assumed one would crack early on. I guess they were wrong on both asumptions much to the dismay of her family.
 
I don't know if I dreamt this last night or read it upthread but it matches the very first rumor I heard in week one, which is that "they threw her out" meaning from 5 North. If this is true it would explain JR's lie and it would point more to abduction by friend or foe.

This brings me to the 3:38 a.m. carrier, who may or may not have been AB. If it was I wonder if the DD was at AB and ZO apartment when he returned with LS.
 
Jupiter812 said:
I don't know if I dreamt this last night or read it upthread but it matches the very first rumor I heard in week one, which is that "they threw her out" meaning from 5 North. If this is true it would explain JR's lie and it would point more to abduction by friend or foe.

This brings me to the 3:38 a.m. carrier, who may or may not have been AB. If it was I wonder if the DD was at AB and ZO apartment when he returned with LS.
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I've always questioned JR's 4:30 a.m. last sighting. And I've wondered why it's been so patently accepted (?) as The Truth both here, on other sites, and by LE (or are they just playing along?).

For me, the last confirmed sighting of LS, if LE is being honest and straight-up, is at 2:51 on the video as she exits the alley. Anything after that is fair game and open for discussion.
 
plaidmom said:
I've always questioned JR's 4:30 a.m. last sighting. And I've wondered why it's been so patently accepted (?) as The Truth both here, on other sites, and by LE (or are they just playing along?).

For me, the last confirmed sighting of LS, if LE is being honest and straight-up, is at 2:51 on the video as she exits the alley. Anything after that is fair game and open for discussion.
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Actually I think LE has pretty much gone with the 2:51 time as the last official sighting...anything else has been phrased, as far as I know, as according to, or per a witness (JR), etc...I don't know if they can disprove the later alleged sighting though.
 
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