Max's Search Warrants Released!!!! Discuss Max's Death here #2

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CDS22 said:
First of all, she was twice his size and more than twice his weight. Second of all, XZ was with her at the time, too, so that's 2 people larger than MS.

Thirdly, I've seen small children throw children their own size or larger, when they get in a rage. Rage can make someone super-strong.
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So now you are saying XZ helped RZ throw him over? WTH?
 
CDS22 said:
First of all, she was twice his size and more than twice his weight. Second of all, XZ was with her at the time, too, so that's 2 people larger than MS.

Thirdly, I've seen small children throw children their own size or larger, when they get in a rage. Rage can make someone super-strong.
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So now 2 people are involved in rendering MS unconscious & hurling him over the railing to his death?

Oh dear.

ETA: I want to add that I completely disagree with this assertion.
 
sorrell skye said:
So what I think you're saying is that you don't believe a fall from a 2nd story landing could cause a fatal spinal cord contusion - that only being thrown from a 2nd story landing could produce the fatal injury.

Who threw him, then? And why was he unconscious prior to being thrown?
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I'm definitely saying that a second story fall of a conscious child onto a carpeted floor would not produce enough speed and force to cause a fatal spinal contusion.

I believe that MS was unconscious prior to a fall being staged, and that had the fall not been staged, MS might have survived the event that rendered him unconscious (although he might have been impaired).

Only two people were in the house with him at the time of his injury. That would be RZ and XZ. One, or both, of them had to have injured them. Why is anyone's guess, although I have my opinion.

JMO
 
I think this mean there's more force involved when thrown lifeless straight down than when falling consciously and having the fall broken by banisters and chandeliers and arms and hands
 
Mod note: I don't think we are allowing discussion that accuses RZN of murdering Max.
I do need to check with the active mods here and that rule may have changed if there was some evidence released to support. So, I need to clarify with anothe mod-but until then please do not accuse RZN of any crime to max.
Thanks.
 
CDS22 said:
I'm definitely saying that a second story fall of a conscious child onto a carpeted floor would not produce enough speed and force to cause a fatal spinal contusion.

I believe that MS was unconscious prior to a fall being staged, and that had the fall not been staged, MS might have survived the event that rendered him unconscious (although he might have been impaired).

Only two people were in the house with him at the time of his injury. That would be RZ and XZ. One, or both, of them had to have injured them. Why is anyone's guess, although I have my opinion.

JMO
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bbm

I absolutely do not agree that "one, or both, of them had to have injured" him.
 
JBean said:
Mod note: I don't think we are allowing discussion that accuses RZN of murdering Max.
I do need to check with the active mods here and that rule may have changed if there was some evidence released to support. So, I need to clarify with anothe mod-but until then please do not accuse RZN of any crime to max.
Thanks.
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Thank you for the clarification. Can I ask how we're supposed to discuss a child's death when we believe he's been killed, if we can't discuss the killer?
 
jjenny said:
Clearly the woman had super abilities. Which are also evident by her ability to kill herself in the most bizarre way imaginable.
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You can't have it both ways. The trainer at her gym says she was super athletic and that he thinks she could have physically gone over the railing (although I think he also said he doesn't think she did commit suicide, just that she could have jumped a railing). And her sister said she recently did a marathon and was very athletic. So why couldn't she lift a child less than half her weight?

I am the same height as RZ, although I weigh 7 lbs less than she did. I am not athletic, but I am fit. I can easily lift a 45 lb child.
 
CDS22 said:
I'm definitely saying that a second story fall of a conscious child onto a carpeted floor would not produce enough speed and force to cause a fatal spinal contusion.

JMO
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this is what I meant to say but you articulated it much better. I don't know why the theory is literally being laughed at on this forum of all places.
 
CDS22 said:
I'm definitely saying that a second story fall of a conscious child onto a carpeted floor would not produce enough speed and force to cause a fatal spinal contusion.

I believe that MS was unconscious prior to a fall being staged, and that had the fall not been staged, MS might have survived the event that rendered him unconscious (although he might have been impaired).

Only two people were in the house with him at the time of his injury. That would be RZ and XZ. One, or both, of them had to have injured them. Why is anyone's guess, although I have my opinion.

JMO
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bbm - Excuse me?

A week or so ago you posted that maybe the accident wouldn't have happened if RZ had not been in the restroom applying eye shadow for 20 minutes. I take it your opinion has now changed?
 
JBean said:
Mod note: I don't think we are allowing discussion that accuses RZN of murdering Max.
I do need to check with the active mods here and that rule may have changed if there was some evidence released to support. So, I need to clarify with anothe mod-but until then please do not accuse RZN of any crime to max.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Can we take the Shacknais off the table too?
 
sorrell skye said:
bbm

I absolutely do not agree that "one, or both, of them had to have injured" him.
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I know that we disagree on this point, and I thank you for how respectfully and politely you've disagreed with me and other posters. Sometimes I think the back-and-forth is what helps all of us to make our decisions on a matter.
 
CDS22 said:
I posted a link in the first Max thread about childhood falls and the most likely cause and effect of fatal head injury. It wasn't fatal spinal cord contusion. It was epidural hematoma.

Now you can argue that Max hit his head just the "wrong" way to get a fatal spinal cord contusion, but there wasn't enough height to get the velocity needed to hit the floor with force needed to unplug his spinal cord, nor was the carpeted floor a hard enough surface to give him the impact needed to fatally damage his spinal cord.
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Okay. So. What gave him that kind of velocity?

You've now got our suspect dragging him (thus producing carpet burn (with a shirt on?) and pulling down the chandelier, plus whatever the killer did first to cause loss of consciousness so that the impact from the fall without defensive-protective type hand wounds. What do you think the murderer did, exactly? here's my guess as to your hypothetical situation:

1. Semi-smother - to point of consciousness lost
2. Throw Max over the stairwell for face down landing (any blood at point of impact?)
3. Drag shirtless max across carpet to new location (Why not just pick him up to move him - I can easily carry my 50lb boys in a dead sleep.)
4. Put scooter on top of Max's leg
5. Pull down the chandelier (as per the chandelier thread)

Do I have all the pieces of your scenario? What's the motive? Cold blooded murder or to cover an accident?
 
Rhyme & Reason said:
bbm - Excuse me?

A week or so ago you posted that maybe the accident wouldn't have happened if RZ had not been in the restroom applying eye shadow for 20 minutes. I take it your opinion has now changed?
Click to expand...

My opinion has definitely changed. I always believed MS didn't fall the way RZ said he did, but I firmly believed it was an accident. I now believe that he didn't fall the way he did and that he was unconscious prior to falling. I believed this prior to reading Dr. Peterson's quotes in the SW (linked in this thread), but I believe it even moreso than I did the prior week, and I have a different take on how it happened, but I can't post it here.
 
greenpalm said:
Okay. So. What gave him that kind of velocity?

You've now got our suspect dragging him (thus producing carpet burn (with a shirt on?) and pulling down the chandelier, plus whatever the killer did first to cause loss of consciousness so that the impact from the fall without defensive-protective type hand wounds. What do you think the murderer did, exactly? here's my guess as to your hypothetical situation:

1. Semi-smother - to point of consciousness lost
2. Throw Max over the stairwell for face down landing (any blood at point of impact?)
3. Drag shirtless max across carpet to new location (Why not just pick him up to move him - I can easily carry my 50lb boys in a dead sleep.)
4. Put scooter on top of Max's leg
5. Pull down the chandelier (as per the chandelier thread)

Do I have all the pieces of your scenario? What's the motive? Cold blooded murder or to cover an accident?
Click to expand...

Carpet burns can occur through a T-shirt or when a T-shirt rides up. Remember, the SW says they seized a black T-shirt (cut) that was found near the scene of the accident.

I believe it is against the current guidelines for me to post what I believe happened and why it happened, but I do have a theory.
 
thinkingstraight said:
this is what I meant to say but you articulated it much better. I don't know why the theory is literally being laughed at on this forum of all places.
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Dr. Peterson is being laughed at, too, so we're in esteemed company.
 
CDS22 said:
My opinion has definitely changed. I always believed MS didn't fall the way RZ said he did, but I firmly believed it was an accident. I now believe that he didn't fall the way he did and that he was unconscious prior to falling. I believed this prior to reading Dr. Peterson's quotes in the SW (linked in this thread), but I believe it even moreso than I did the prior week, and I have a different take on how it happened, but I can't post it here.
Click to expand...

Yes but now you are accusing a 13 year old of taking part in a murder!!
 
What IF MS was crouching/squatting on the newel post at the top of the stairs with his back to the chandelier?

Then, something/someone/nothing caused him to lose his balance with his body heading toward the chandelier?

With his tennis-shod or bare feet still on the newel post, his legs then uncoiled/unsprung sending him backwards toward the chandelier.

Collision with the chandelier with his back [possibly causing the “patterned abrasions or scrapes on back” per AR] and without hand damage to prevent the fall, then landing on the carpet below in the devastating, neck hyper-extended position resulting in the spinal cord “unplugging” damage as stated in the AR. ???

Horrible, nightmare of a freak accident.

IMO, MOO, TIA, etc.
 
I need to go color my roots and catch my breath LOL. I'm a little taken aback here.
 
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