Patty G
Retired WS Staff
It must be on your end OR it could be too many are viewing at one time.
Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #16
- Thread starter Salem
- Start date
- Status
It must be on your end OR it could be too many are viewing at one time.
mck16
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2009
- Messages
- 7,472
- Reaction score
- 8
That is definitely swollen. jmo I wonder when and where this picture was taken. And is this snipped just to show his knuckle area or is this the entire picture?tia
suzihawk
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 3,618
- Reaction score
- 3
There's a photo in the National Enquirer of the outside of the hotel with room 309 circled which looks to be a corner room. It's the same issue with the 'death scene photos'. Consider the source.
Official Cause of Death
From Radaronline: http://www.radaronline.com/photos/image/71396/2010/06/official-case-file-joran-van-der-sloot
"Cause of dead: cranial-encephalic and cervical traumatism- as indicated by the results presented on the necropsy report of the legal doctor No.1838-2010 prompt by the Division of Forensic Thanatology "
If I may attempt to translate better, it lists 2 factors. Trauma to the skull and brain, and truama to the neck. So I was right in the sense that the head/brain injuries were very severe.
On another "front." They list the evidence against him. It includes "6. by the testimony of the drivers 7. by the recovery of the stuff and clothes of the foreign citizen in possession of the drivers"
I first thought that the police were going overboard in arresting the drivers. And that Joran couldn't have been so dumb as to tell them what he did.
It appears I was wrong!
Or that he was really whacked out on something! Or both.
So not only did he incriminate himself with what he said to the drivers, he gave them incriminaing evidence to I guess dispose of --OR SELL??? When he ran out of sufficient funds for them??
If he asked for them to be disposed of, is he too stupid to do an OJ who got rid of the knife?
Why didn't Joran ditch any incriminating eveidence he took from the hotel? Is it a souvenir thing, like they say about serial killers? Was he just waiting for the best place?
In any case, he is looking more and more stupid or whacked out. [Not an excuse for his depraved indifference.]
And it sure looks like the easiest case in the world to win on the charge of murder in furtherance of robbery, of which a life sentence in Peru is allowed.
From Radaronline: http://www.radaronline.com/photos/image/71396/2010/06/official-case-file-joran-van-der-sloot
"Cause of dead: cranial-encephalic and cervical traumatism- as indicated by the results presented on the necropsy report of the legal doctor No.1838-2010 prompt by the Division of Forensic Thanatology "
If I may attempt to translate better, it lists 2 factors. Trauma to the skull and brain, and truama to the neck. So I was right in the sense that the head/brain injuries were very severe.
On another "front." They list the evidence against him. It includes "6. by the testimony of the drivers 7. by the recovery of the stuff and clothes of the foreign citizen in possession of the drivers"
I first thought that the police were going overboard in arresting the drivers. And that Joran couldn't have been so dumb as to tell them what he did.
It appears I was wrong!
Or that he was really whacked out on something! Or both.
So not only did he incriminate himself with what he said to the drivers, he gave them incriminaing evidence to I guess dispose of --OR SELL??? When he ran out of sufficient funds for them??
If he asked for them to be disposed of, is he too stupid to do an OJ who got rid of the knife?
Why didn't Joran ditch any incriminating eveidence he took from the hotel? Is it a souvenir thing, like they say about serial killers? Was he just waiting for the best place?
In any case, he is looking more and more stupid or whacked out. [Not an excuse for his depraved indifference.]
And it sure looks like the easiest case in the world to win on the charge of murder in furtherance of robbery, of which a life sentence in Peru is allowed.
Yes, in reviewing it I think the position of the camera is correct on the diagram but, the diagram is still not allowing for the fact there is one more room to the left of 309 (as you look at the photo you posted). Probably doesn't matter a whole lot. This is the first diagram that makes some sense to me.
suzihawk
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 3,618
- Reaction score
- 3
It's an enlargement of the photo in post 23 of this thread. It was taken while he was still in the custody of the Chilean authorities, either just before or after they boarded him on that small plane.
doobiedoo52
Former Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2008
- Messages
- 1,662
- Reaction score
- 2
The link that Suzihawk gave is the one I was referring to---left hand looks really swollen.
Thanks for finding it!
Thanks for finding it!
Thank you so much!!
His left hand especially around the knuckle of the pointer finger appears MASSIVELY swollen.
Of course, we do not know at what point in his assault this took place. E.g., this could have been after he got on topof her and said he was strangling her. Did he leave out that he was alsopunching her?
And again, does anyone know if he is right or left-handed?
Thank you again for showing me that photo. It sure implies that he punched her massively with his left hand.
Anita needs to learn a thing or two from Cindy Anthony. How sad for the Flores family that in spite of all of the evidence and his own admission of guilt that she would make ANY comment other than to offer her sympathy to the family. I don't expect her to admit that he is guilty, but I thought perhaps since she hadn't travelled yet to Peru that maybe she would not be supporting/lying/covering up for Joran.
mck16
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2009
- Messages
- 7,472
- Reaction score
- 8
If that was from punching her why would just one knuckle be swollen and why would it be swollen so many days later? Unless it was broken?
mck16
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2009
- Messages
- 7,472
- Reaction score
- 8
I am wondering if she has seen all the videos that we have been able to view. I wonder to what extent they are covering this in Aruba. As a mother she could be thinking there my son is in a foreign country and they are trying to blame him for all this.
I am a mother and I know we will go to any length not to believe our children have done something bad. JMO
Is the Date of Photo of Swollen Hand: June 4, 2010 since he had not been in handcuffs earlier?
SNIPPED; BBM:
Van der Sloot, the 22-year-old Dutchman who had been a suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Holloway in Aruba, was handcuffed and placed aboard a police plane in the Chilean capital of Santiago this morning and arrived in Peru this afternoon, The Associated Press reported.
http://www.aolnews.com/crime/articl...alee-holloway-case-captured-in-chile/19502455
One thing I just noticed is that the photo from post 23 and the enlargement from here:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #7
appear to me to NOT be of the same photo. In one pic, the angle of the hand is different from the other, and the hand appears to be more open. Looks like a close-up from another photo, apparently taken around the same time, as it appears one can make out the shirt and even the vest in the close-up, but it appears to be a close-up of a different photo.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #7
appear to me to NOT be of the same photo. In one pic, the angle of the hand is different from the other, and the hand appears to be more open. Looks like a close-up from another photo, apparently taken around the same time, as it appears one can make out the shirt and even the vest in the close-up, but it appears to be a close-up of a different photo.
Patty G
Retired WS Staff
:waitasec: IMO, Cindy said basically the same thing as Joran's mother.
I don't know if I can identify with Mrs. Van Der Sloot because her son has confessed to something," Caylee's grandmother, Cindy Anthony, said in an exclusive interview with "Good Morning America." "You know, there have been issues where she saw his angry side. I don't know that of Casey. I don't know Casey as being anybody that could hurt anybody."
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/TheLaw/ex...randmother-natalee-holloway/story?id=10913252
Patty G
Retired WS Staff
Here's an enlargement of the hands from the photo that suzihawk posted earlier and the other pic presented earlier.
Attachments
suzihawk
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 3,618
- Reaction score
- 3
IIRC, he wasn't handcuffed when they very first picked him up, but all the photos after that show him in cuffs.
In the photo I posted he's having a great deal of difficulty keeping his pants up and that was during the time he was being boarded on the plane.
Ughhh, can't stand the thought of another mother in total denial.
Yes, June 4th.
Yes, MCK16. If the photo is genuine, IMO, it means he likely broke that knuckle big time--from a massive punch AGAINST SOMETHING HARD PRESUMABLY BONE.
I can tell you from someone who broke his knuckles a few times, they sure swell up. This is why you will see martial artists and boxers with enlarged knuckles. When they heal, they are larger than before and allow for greater punching power subsequently.
E.g. check out the knuckles of Bruce Lee in this pic:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e71/Heavy-DGSX/bruce_lee.jpg
See, e.g. even the pinky knuckle of his left hand.
So I thank you sleuthers, it implies Joran delivered a massive blow with his left hand to hard bone presumably of Stephany's face.
Again does anyone know if he is right or left handed?
Also again we can't know if this is before or after the blow that made her go unconscious? Or if that is the blow in question?
A single massive strike, as previously noted, especially if she were held up against a wall would do it.
Is it possible he is right handed and was holding her with his right when she defended herself and instead of giving into his robbery demands, struck or attempted to strike at this monster, and he then went all out, not with his elbow but with his free hand--the left one?
Finally I should note that I have broken my knuckles numerous times, and they didn't quite look that bad. And this is important again. If she were held against the wall as I previously described, not only would this have prevented her head from moving back through space (and absorbing more of hte blow) and thus it magnified the skull and brain damage--but it would also magnify the damage to his own knuckle from Newton's third law.
It appears more and more that she was held against a hard wall when a massive blow to the face was delivered, and it may have been from his left hand and not the elbow. IMO
Thank you Patty G. The side by side shows they are NOT the same photo. It also indicated that the swelling is far more massive on one photo than the other.
This does not make sense if they were taken in close temporral proximity. I hope it wasn't photoshopped!!!
Or that someone whacked him on his knuckle. If I were his defense atorney, and the were using the one photo of his knuckle, I'd sure use the other one, and claim the other was altered or such. Of course, there may be other proof avaiable. E.g. taking an x-ray of his left hand may allow a diagnosis of a very recently broken knuckle.
Thank you again, Patty G. As usual, we've got more questions than answers.
All IMOO.
- Status