Trial - Ross Harris #4

Nana46 · Oct 25, 2016

I guess I am falling behind here......I really would like to read what charge and sentence you guys think is applicable here....specifically if you believe RH forgot him.......seriously....I am trying to wrap my head around this....at the end of the day he should be held accountable for something.....so what? If you think LE is not/was not doing their job, a child still died so isn't RH responsible? Please somebody help me out....if you think he has been overcharged by whomever then what is your answer? I really really am sincere....help me out here. I think LE from the onset knew something was hinky here...and I don't know how/what they knew but it had to be big for them to take him in as soon as they did.....maybe I trust LE too much I don't know....but I just am not seeing RH being railroaded here...his child his dead....that is a fact.

MzOpinion8d · Oct 25, 2016

Hope4More said:
Just for starters, you didn't see a problem with Stoddard maintaining, from the beginning all the way through his trial testimony, that RH made a call lasting 6 minutes that he couldn't have, given he was detained and had had his phone confiscated?

Did you see any problem with Stoddard testifying that RH hadn't followed through on contacting the travel agent, that the agent had initiated contact , when Stoddard was in possession of an email sent by RH to the agent initiating their exchange?

He did make a 6 minute phone call. Or at least it was 5+ min, to the daycare.

Bc007 · Oct 25, 2016

I mentioned this in thread 3- almost all the major evidence used to charge Ross and hold him until trial has been shown to have been twisted or fabricated. That's a problem especially when it was previously discussed under oath by the state's key whitness and contradicts current testimony at the criminal trial! The lead investigator saying in the stand something to the effect of " oh that was before we had an expert review such and such" doesn't cut it for me when dealing with someone's freedom and presumption of innocence. Ok so here is the running list of issues I see for the state; there are those computer related issues that turned up false or twisted into something it wasn't, the car seat placement problem and measurement, the state's expert who tested and evaluated the temp in the car yet didn't account for Cooper's body temp nor did he take the humidity level into account. Oh, then we have 6 minute phone call that couldn't have taken place due to RH being detained in the back of the cop car. All the the confusion with who smelled what at the scene. What else?

arkansasmimi · Oct 25, 2016

justkk said:
Funny, I was about to post something about this.

I have not watched all of it yet, but from the comments I had read today I was expecting his demeanor to be really antagonistic. From what I have watched so far I thought he responded remarkably controlled and professional given the way Kilgore was clearly (doing his job of course) picking apart going after him!

There were a couple of times I distinctly thought " well that didn't go over the way Kilgore was hoping!"

It is interesting how we all perceive things differently.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JMHO, his demeanor was same as in the other Hearing I watch. He got carried away trying to "explain" a few times and finally caught himself. He was Lead Det and had this HIGH Profile case, that from every single Hearing and now trial, he responds "I don't recall" or I don't remember"

Something kinda funny to me today was when Stoddard gave him the call log from the iPhone5 extraction and the State exhibit. First Stoddard said they were similar but not the same. Stoddard said they better be the same or going to have to shut court down as there a huge problem.

That's when Kilgore asked him about what happens when you call LAA.. then
Stoddard says you have to put in extension number..
Kilgore... and if you don't put in that number?
Stoddard: the call just sits there

Then Kilgore get the CAD from 911 calls, and makes Stoddard realize that the last call RH made was made again (butt call kind of thing) but RH didn't make it, he was already in the rear of Piper Patrol Car. Stoddard has already interviewed Michelle Gray, twice, accused her of lying and yesterday even stated he still thinks she took the call from RH.
If truth be known, he probably still thinks so tonight. But there is no way RH spoke to anyone at that number at that time. Fact.

Where were the times you think didn't go over the way Kilgore was hoping? The Objections? That a given in this case. Even on most all of those, he came back and got what he needed to prove. JMHO

Bc007 · Oct 25, 2016

MzOpinion8d said:
He did make a 6 minute phone call. Or at least it was 5+ min, to the daycare.

Look at today's testimony- on cross it was shown due to the time Ross was reportedly placed in cuffs and put in the back of a police car, he couldn't have been on the phone. The time overlapped the call time.

turaj · Oct 25, 2016

momoftwocrazies said:
Wondering how you guys are finding Stoddards credibility? I was expecting to feel on cross that he had what they're calling confirmation bias but all I see is a cop who is standing up for a dead kid. I was guessing the defense would find more to impeach him. Thoughts?

i find exactly as above "a cop standing up for a dead kid"...sure Kilgore can get him on some things...but overall I think Stoddard has held up remarkably well and not thinking this is going well for the defense today.

arkansasmimi · Oct 25, 2016

Hope4More said:
He perjured himself on the stand in both those instances, and those were just the first two off the top of my head.

Dishonest, yes, but that isn't even what bothers me the most about him. What bothers me the most, and what I find frightening, is what he represents, that being the power of the State to decide, without any actual evidence, that someone is guilty of a crime as serious as murder, and then to pursue a conviction by any means necessary, with the justification that the ends justify the means.

Not in a democracy, they don't.

Guessing some who find it okay for someone else, would think ok if it were them too. JMHO Heck no worry about innocent until proven guilty. When made up lies to begin with, talking about stuff stacked against you.

turaj · Oct 25, 2016

blue22 said:
I tend to agree. I have also re-watched and it was different than I expected. I do think there is a Kilgore bandwagon thing going on. As I said above, I don't get that.

at first was on that bandwagon but he really seems to be losing steam and points and is not nearly as effective as I was expecting.

Bc007 · Oct 25, 2016

Nana46 said:
I guess I am falling behind here......I really would like to read what charge and sentence you guys think is applicable here....specifically if you believe RH forgot him.......seriously....I am trying to wrap my head around this....at the end of the day he should be held accountable for something.....so what? If you think LE is not/was not doing their job, a child still died so isn't RH responsible? Please somebody help me out....if you think he has been overcharged by whomever then what is your answer? I really really am sincere....help me out here. I think LE from the onset knew something was hinky here...and I don't know how/what they knew but it had to be big for them to take him in as soon as they did.....maybe I trust LE too much I don't know....but I just am not seeing RH being railroaded here...his child his dead....that is a fact.

If he sincerely forgot him.... his son is dead..... Sounds like he already received a life sentence to a certain degree. I don't know that I'm convinced either way on what happened . Just saying....

arkansasmimi · Oct 25, 2016

Rocco said:
Add to that his numerous clips today of people walking through the parking lot and the failure of the prosecution to find out who these people were. Fail. Who the heck looks into other people's cars when they walk through a parking lot. Let me see......maybe thieves looking for stuff to steal but other than that, I don't know that normal people do that. If anyone had seen him or heard him, they would have gotten help---so obviously they didn't.

Again, never know unless you ask (investigate). No notes in any reports of anything, yet Stoddard stated he gave info of those times to 2 HD Corporate Security people to help. Sanders and his immediate Supervisor Jeff Pardon(sp?).

Hope4More · Oct 25, 2016

MzOpinion8d said:
He did make a 6 minute phone call. Or at least it was 5+ min, to the daycare.

LE arrived at the scene at 4:21. By all accounts, RH was cuffed and his phone taken away from him within several minutes of LE's arrival. The call logs demonstrate a 6 minute call time stamped 4:27.

It was impossible for RH to have made a 6 minute call to room #5.

arkansasmimi · Oct 25, 2016

Hope4More said:
It's called perjury, a criminal offense, or gross incompetence, which is grounds for termination. Me, I'm hoping for a two-fer penalty, but given what I've seen in this case, I expect him to be promoted.

I still reeling over Folgia (who is now a Det in Crimes Against Children) was pulled from patrol to go over RH phone extract reports! This is who told RH to get off phone and he said FU.. interesting of all people...

Nana46 · Oct 25, 2016

arkansasmimi said:
I still reeling over Folgia (who is now a Det in Crimes Against Children) was pulled from patrol to go over RH phone extract reports! This is who told RH to get off phone and he said FU.. interesting of all people...

I thought you all were saying he could not be on the phone....and I knew I remembered all the discussion about him being on a phone...so was it at a later time???? He was on the phone at the crime scene correct? Good Lawd I am behind.

tlcya · Oct 25, 2016

I am going Off Topic for a sec. I know you guys are deep into this trial and want to make sure you take note of the announcement under Websleuths News at the top of the page.

Attention Websleuths Members and Visitors

Starting Wednesday 6:00 PM ET Websleuths will be down for maintenance
Websleuth should be back up by Thursday morning
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This is a necessary preparation in anticipation of the A & E Docuseries "The Killing Season" which premiers November 12th.

Thanks for your patience.

JudyBolton · Oct 25, 2016

These two lines of reasoning I cannot understand:

1- The detectives (specifically Stoddard) had some immediate dislike of JRH at the scene with his dead child and decided to concoct some drummed up evidence to charge him with murdering his child. They did not know JRH, LH, nor Cooper. They are presummably doing this for some ego trip or undisclosed biased against pudgy dads /Alabama fans.

2 - On the other hand, we have irrefutable *proof* that JRH left Cooper in the car and he died. We have proof that he was obsessed with sex, underage girls, prostitutes, and sending photos of his body parts to said underage girls. We have proof that he said he wished he wasn't married, only stayed married because of Cooper, thought he drained his wallet, needed a break, etc. We have testimony from eye witnesses that he was acting odd at the scene. We have a few minutes (at most) time from strapping Cooper into car seat until turn should be made to day care (instead of going straight to work.) I could go on and on.... And yet - he is the "innocent scapegoat" here?

Although I believe (based on what I've seen so far) - that he is guilty - I also believe he will walk away from this. As we've seen in numerous other trials, it only takes one person on the jury to believe #1 - that the cops are the bad guys.:gaah:

arkansasmimi · Oct 25, 2016

Bc007 said:
This discribes my opinion of Stallard's behavior through the investigation which was most likely shared with his team. Doesn't mean that RH should walk, which he won't, but the investigation was so poorly done that it will most likely hurt the level of conviction.

Curious as to why we haven't heard from Sean Murphy? I would be if I were on jury. I would think Stoddard would be the closer, with the car and 3D animated video, and maybe the FBI person on Thurs? or Maybe Stoddard going to do that part too. I bet Murphy if not called by State is by Def. Stoddard gave him the incorrect information to get the SW.

Safeguard · Oct 25, 2016

Nana46 said:
I guess I am falling behind here......I really would like to read what charge and sentence you guys think is applicable here....specifically if you believe RH forgot him.......seriously....I am trying to wrap my head around this....at the end of the day he should be held accountable for something.....so what? If you think LE is not/was not doing their job, a child still died so isn't RH responsible? Please somebody help me out....if you think he has been overcharged by whomever then what is your answer? I really really am sincere....help me out here. I think LE from the onset knew something was hinky here...and I don't know how/what they knew but it had to be big for them to take him in as soon as they did.....maybe I trust LE too much I don't know....but I just am not seeing RH being railroaded here...his child his dead....that is a fact.

A child dies in a lot of these cases and no one is prosecuted. So I guess it depends? ( actually these cases were unheard of until 1990 when the "experts decided kids were "safer" in the back seat... Go Experts! pffftttt).

this Father Wasn't charged at all. Wonder why not? He must have behaved in a more socially acceptable manor, so no charge for this one!

http://globalnews.ca/news/1356247/w...d-forget-a-child-in-a-car-anyone-experts-say/

rsbm
"It was ‘tropical day’ at their Austin, Texas daycare, so Sophia Rayne “Ray Ray” Cavaliero’s parents dressed up their one-year-old in a flowered dress."

“She smiled back as if she knew she looked so adorable,” said Kristie Reeves, Ray Ray’s mother. “We kissed her and told her we loved her as we buckled her in her seat, and she waved the most mysterious goodbye to us—a wave we had never seen before and one we would never forget.”

"Brett drove away with his sleeping daughter in his truck. For reasons Kristie said she and her husband still do not fully understand, Brett drove past the turn that he would normally take to drop Ray Ray off at daycare.

Assuming his child was in the hands of her daycare teachers, he continued to drive to work."

'It was only when she met her husband that day for lunch hours later and they spoke of how “cute their daughter looked on tropical day” that Kristie said reality hit.

The couple rushed back to Brett’s work and called the office manager to check the truck. Another call to the daycare confirmed Ray Ray wasn’t there.

Kristie said both she and the office manager called 911.

“But the nightmare had happened,” she said. “Ray Ray had been forgotten for nearly three hours in 90 degree (Fahrenheit) heat.”

On May 25, 2011, Ray Ray died due to vehicular heart stroke."

http://www.parents.com/baby/safety/car/danger-of-hot-car-for-children/
rsbm
When Sophia Cavaliero died, her father was questioned by police. Charges were never filed against him, but that didn't provide much solace. "I thought, 'It doesn't matter where you put me or what you do to me. I'll live with this horror every single minute of every day and there's nothing you can do to me that will be worse than this,'" says Cavaliero.

He never thought he would learn to manage his grief. But he's getting there, with the help of his wife, who never blamed him, and supportive family and friends. He and Kristie are now the parents of 20-month-old twin girls.

Some people get Jail time, others get new babies. Defies logic... 0.o

arkansasmimi · Oct 25, 2016

RANCH said:
The more I think about Stoddard's "mistakes" the more I shake my head. This guy is the lead detective on this case. The State is using him to tell the jury the facts that he uncovered during his investigation. He should know this case like the back of his hand, backwards and forwards or any which way.

The jury deserves the whole truth from him. JMO.

RBBM THIS! Makes me wonder if he did same thing in any other case? (fabricate stuff)

Hope4More · Oct 25, 2016

Nana46 said:
I thought you all were saying he could not be on the phone....and I knew I remembered all the discussion about him being on a phone...so was it at a later time???? He was on the phone at the crime scene correct? Good Lawd I am behind.

Think about it this way (in terms of time).

RH pulled into the center, tires squealing, jumped out of the car and opened the back door. He had a difficult time getting Cooper out of the seat, a good Samaritan helped. Witnesses have begun arriving by now. RH attempts CPR, briefly, the good Samaritan takes over. A witness calls 911 at that point, LE has already been called.

LE arrived at 4:21, and iirc, it took Piper only about a minute to get there when she heard the call over her radio. In between the time the 911 call was placed and the time LE arrived, RH walked away from his car and made a call to Leanna, who didn't answer. His next call was to daycare (iirc), again no answer. That was not the 6 minute call.

LE arrived either when he was making/had made the 2nd call (or possibly when he had just dialed that 5 odd minute call?). He couldn't have been speaking to anyone on the phone, because none of those calls reached anyone.

He was detained, cuffed, and his phone taken away within mnutes of LE arriving. The records show he was detained at 4:27, though I'm unsure if that's when he was placed in the car, or when he was cuffed and his phone was seized by Piper.

The "6 minute call" was placed at 4:25. So, either RH never made the call, or he had dialed it but hadn't connected with anyone before the phone was seized. What he didn't do, in any case, was stay on the phone for 6 minutes, ignoring his dead baby on the ground, and what he didn't do, despite how many times Stoddard says it under oath, is talk on the phone to anyone, including poor Ms. Gray.

(Please to correct me, anyone, if I have any part of that wrong).

blue22 · Oct 25, 2016

Nana46 said:
I guess I am falling behind here......I really would like to read what charge and sentence you guys think is applicable here....specifically if you believe RH forgot him.......seriously....I am trying to wrap my head around this....at the end of the day he should be held accountable for something.....so what? If you think LE is not/was not doing their job, a child still died so isn't RH responsible? Please somebody help me out....if you think he has been overcharged by whomever then what is your answer? I really really am sincere....help me out here. I think LE from the onset knew something was hinky here...and I don't know how/what they knew but it had to be big for them to take him in as soon as they did.....maybe I trust LE too much I don't know....but I just am not seeing RH being railroaded here...his child his dead....that is a fact.

I really and truly think he is guilty of criminal negligence. I think despite faults, that much has already been proven no matter what the defense does. I also think I am leaning toward felony murder, but I can't decide that until all evidence has been presented. In my gut, I think he did this on purpose. However, I think there is no way the state can prove intent. Short of a confession, I don't see how anyone could prove intent with a situation like this. I would be very surprised if he were convicted of malice murder, but not on the other charges. JMO. (I personally do not think he's being overcharged. In the interest of justice for Cooper, I'm glad he was charged with murder even if there isn't a conviction for it.)

**As far as the charges regarding minors, he obviously did that. He will be convicted of those, IMO.

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