GUILTY NY - Leiby Kletzky, 8, Brooklyn, 11 July 2011 - #2

I've always thought the insanity plea should be changed to "Guilty by reason of insanity" it just makes so much more sense.

Cubby said:

"He is hearing voices. He's been hearing voices for quite some time. He tries to quell some of the voices by listening to music, and he listens to it with headphones, and he listens to it very loud," said Gerard Marrone, Aron's Defense Attorney.


At Levi Aron's arraignment last week, his attorneys asked for a mental health evaluation saying the accused child killer seemed delusional and disoriented.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=8255999



Would the above be enough for an insanity plea (if confirmed medically)?

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It sounds like they are going the angle of Schizophrenia. A very close family member had this and, from what I have seen or been told at least (I was young), there was no violence against anyone. Unfortunately there was violence against themself.

Bluesky#1 said:

LA's coworkers were the ones who noticed LA had groomed himself after he left work on Monday and since LA was a guest at a large wedding Monday evening, it makes sense why he trimmed his beard etc.

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The beard thing is religious though I don't know much about it. The ringlets the men have are never cut in their lives I believe.

Claudette said:

It sounds like they are going the angle of Schizophrenia. A very close family member had this and, from what I have seen or been told at least (I was young), there was no violence against anyone. Unfortunately there was violence against themself.

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Same situation here with an old friend. No violence against anyone else but life ending violence to himself. Everything I know about schizophrenics is they are more of a danger to themself than they are others.

Chewy said:

A Hasidic Jew that wears his beard long, or an Orthodox Jew who wears his beard long would never "trim it" for a wedding. They wear them scruffy and natural and long.

IMO the man sexually molested the boy and killed him the same night and had done it before.

You don't need to sodomize a child to sexually assault them. And he "panicked" when he saw the big fuss about the boy. He shaved his beard after he killed him probably knowing that they were looking at video tapes.

He would have gotten away with it I bet if he had not gone into the dentist office to pay for the bill and not paid. Irony.

But everything that comes out of this mans mouth is a sheer lie.

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In all of LA's pictures, his beard is always clipped short and styled and I haven't seen any pictures where LA's beard is long and scruffy.

If LA sexually attacked and murdered Leiby Monday night then his coworkers should have seen scratches on his wrists and arms Tuesday morning. If they are sure those scratches weren't on his body Tuesday morning, then Leiby was alive when LA left for work.

The fact LA bound Leiby’s hands and feet make me believe LA was performing a ritual. In the Jewish faith, Abraham was willing to sacrifice his first born son to God to prove his devotion to him.

LA may have believed the reason God brought Leiby into his life was for this purpose. I suppose LA is a devout Jew who desires to please God and do his will above all else so when Leiby didn't try to escape from his home, LA may have accepted this as a sign from God that he wanted him to perform this duty.

<snipped>

Levi Aron, the Brooklyn man charged with killing 8-year-old Leiby Kletzky, had cuts and scratches to his wrists and arms, which the police believe are indications of a struggle, Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said Thursday.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/14/levi-arons-confession-in-leiby-kletzkys-killing/

The survelliance video captured Levy with his full beard. See post #156 above.

FWIW, most of the photo's released of LA pre court hearing are from his facebook and myspace page. All photo's are very dated, one having looked like it was likely taken while he was still married and residing in TN 2005/2006 (cowboy hat photo). Another looks even more dated with an LA with a 'full head of hair' which looks like either a hair piece or hair plugs which he didn't keep up. His coworkers can attest to the length of the beard and I am sure there is survelliance from within the hardware store which has not been made public. Too many witnesses from coworkers to employees to the dentist to testify to his beard length -if nec. These people have no reason to lie. A recent DMV photo may be available as well.

Abraham was not instructed to follow through on sacrificing his first son. IMO, this sounds more like a Cain and Abel thing.

Good point on whether the coworkers noticed scratches on LA's wrists when he arrived Tuesday am. MSM has not said either way.

Cubby said:

Same situation here with an old friend. No violence against anyone else but life ending violence to himself. Everything I know about schizophrenics is they are more of a danger to themself than they are others.

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Most people who are at all self injurious are more of a danger to themselves.

They are generally internalizing the pain instead of projecting it onto someone else.

The teen who is hurting themself instead of becoming the next school shooter. They may have hundreds of scars... but they cope differently than the other teen who shoots up their school.


There are obviously exceptions with Schizophrenics... there are those who become violent.
But they don't usually function well in society leading up to that violent event.

They have a history of psyche holds, being off their meds and having issues, previous violence... something.


Levy seemed to function just fine... working and everything else.

I don't believe he has a mental health defense here. But that is just me. I almost never think a mental health defense is justified... Andrea Yates is one of the few I felt was.


A few violent Schizophrenics...

Jared Loughner of course... yeah... he had a history.


The top three recent ones that come to mind...


Mother smothers baby and tries to kill herself...
2 days after mental health workers concluded she was safe.

http://www.dewsburyreporter.co.uk/news/local/woman_sentenced_for_death_of_daughter_1_3590803


Uncle beats newborn to death...
Just off a psyche hold after killing the dog.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/...by-s-death?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE


Man kills female worker at his group home...
Had been off of his meds for a while and acting erratically.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/17/us/17MENTAL.html?pagewanted=all

Friends have a daughter who is schizophrenic and she has beaten her mother. My former boss's brother is schizphrenic and he has hit people, and threatened to burn down a pharmacy when he was mad they wouldn't give him meds that were not prescribed to him. Terrified the female pharmacist. I had a boy who was schizophrenic in my grade school, 2 years above me, and he squeezed 3 baby chicks to death IMO violence can be common with schizophrenics.

Indictment could come Tues. in Leiby Kletzky murder

"Aron's lawyers indicated on Monday that an insanity defense is becoming more and more of a possibility.
Aron is undergoing an mental health evaluation at Bellevue Hospital, and his lawyers say their client has difficulty answering direct questions.
"One thing he did reiterate to myself and [defense attorney] Pierre [Bazile] is that he is hearing voices," defense attorney Gerard Marrone said. "he's been hearing voices for quite some time.""
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=8258277

I'm getting a feeling in the pit of my stomach that it's going to be a disappointing day.
IMO and from reading interviews of his ex's and the community, he is just a strange kinda disturbed, creepy man. Schizophrenia would have been in full force at his age and the signs would have been very evident.
He held down a job, drove a car, went to weddings, synagogue and interacted. I think this is all a DT ploy to put a notch in their belt and once again a child murderer will not get the punishment they deeserve.
Very sad.

It's interesting that only the Defense attorney's are mentioning these delusions and hearing voices. No one who has known LA personally from his two ex wives to his life long friends have mentioned anything about previous mental health problems.

Bloomberg & Kelly visit Leiby's grieving kin


"Mayor Bloomberg last night paid a shiva call to the grieving family of 8-

year-old Leiby Kletzky, then called it "one of the most sad days in the city."

"It's very tragic," said the mayor, who, accompanied by Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, spent 15 minutes in the Borough Park home."



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...grieving_ql6ZZIfvBrFZEg25XWWHqK#ixzz1SYdgDxgL

Here's what I think happened. When Leiby came up to LA he knew right away he was going to kill him and hurt him. So he asked God to intervene. He went into the dentist but did not pay the bill. He did not take Leiby with him. Why not? I think he went in to pay and thought, "please go away" and when he came out he saw he was still there and decided to take him.

Also just because someone doesn't notice scratches or cuts on your hands doesn't mean they were weren't there. It's not like he'd be slashed as if with a razor by a 9 year olds hands.

Chewy I think he did pay a bill - but very early on it was reported as his mothers bill. IIRC part of LA's confession was that the bill he paid was for services he recieved but the dentist said LA was not a patient of his. Leading me to think perhaps LA paid an invoice which was his step mothers. They must have had records of either LA as a patient or LA's credit card number, or a check.... because it was one of two dentists and either a dental assistant or the receptionist who was able to provide LE with the name and address info for LA.

It's possible LA wore a long sleeve shirt to work Tuesday which may have hidden any evidence of scratches or marks on his arms.

Cubby said:

It's possible LA wore a long sleeve shirt to work Tuesday which may have hidden any evidence of scratches or marks on his arms.

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This can easily be verified.

What is Aron&#8217;s timeline for Tuesday? Did LA work a ½-or-full day? Cops arrested him 2:30 am Wednesday.

In his confession LA told Leiby he wouldn&#8217;t be stay at the wedding late because his back was sore. He returned to his place at 11:30 pm and slept in his bedroom and LK slept in the living room. When Levi woke up early for work he woke LK and told him he would take him home and then he experienced a panic attack. When LA returned home Leiby was still there and he fed him a tuna sandwich. Next LA talks about the body parts.

- Levi Aron has two brothers and one sister who is deceased. His father remarried and I can&#8217;t find the children&#8217;s birth order to confirm whether Aron is the eldest of the 3 males. Aron is 36 and I'm not sure if the brother who is 19 is LA&#8217;s stepbrother or biological brother.

<snipped>

Family History: Levi Aron lived at 466 East 2nd Street in Kensington, Brooklyn. His family comprised of his father, stepmother, uncle and two brothers lived on the main floor. Levi&#8217;s name is shown with on the paperwork for the home. LA&#8217;s father is a bookkeeper and Levi Aron&#8217;s family hired his lawyers. There is one entrance in the front that leads to hallway with staircase leading up and to each apartment. Levi had the top floor to himself. Between Levi&#8217;s top floor apartment and his family&#8217;s apartment are other tenants who said they didn&#8217;t hear anything.

- IDK if LA had a telphone in his attic apartment but I assume Aron&#8217;s place of worship in the house was in the living room where Leiby stayed in.

Binding of Isaac:
At some point in Isaac's youth, his father Abraham brought him to mount Moriah. At Yahweh's command to Abraham, he was to build a sacrificial altar and sacrifice his son Isaac upon it. After binding his son to the altar and drawing his knife to kill him, in the very last moment an angel of Yahweh prevented Abraham from proceeding. Rather, he was directed to sacrifice a nearby ram instead. This event served as a test of Abraham's faith to Yahweh, not as an actual human sacrifice.
Isaac - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- Levi Aron outwardly appears to be a well-groomed, attractive and gentle heterosexual male. He selected over 200 beautiful women to be his friend and I expect investigators will only find adult *advertiser censored* on his computer not child *advertiser censored*.

nursebeeme said:

A singer known as the "Jewish Elvis'' says he was moved to tears by the tragic death of 8-year-old Leibby Kletzky and is writing a song in his memory.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Singer-Writing-Song-in-Brooklyn-Boys-Memory-125734243.html


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Cubby said:

http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stor...-leiby-kletzky-remains-in-bellevue-psych-ward

I can't take snippets from the above article. however, it does say Levi hears voices and uses earphones to drown the voices out - and listens to music loudly.

also - this article states the defense has not yet decided on pleading not guilty by reason of insanity due to not yet having enough information.

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LA would have been prescribed powerful medications when he was admitted into the psychiatrc ward at Bellevue Hospital and he might be taking narcotics for the first time in his life. His medications could cause him to hallucinate.

I think it's possible that LA put Leiby in the trunk while he went to the wedding (not leaving him in the car with "the windows rolled down" as he confessed), and THAT'S why nobody seen him at the Wedding.

Maybe poor Leiby suffocated in the trunk, and the dismemberment was indeed done the next day? If that is what happened, then, there would likely be evidence of that in the trunk, I guess.

LE said that LA had dumped the red suitcase shortly before they got there. Surely the dismemberment was done that Tuesday night if that is the case.

Councilman Proposes 'Leiby's Law'; Brooklyn DA Vows 'Swift Justice' For Slain Boy

In the wake of the tragic murder of Leiby Kletzky, a councilman is proposing new legislation named for the 8-year-old schoolboy that's aimed at creating safe places across the city for children seeking help.


http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/da...-brooklyn-da-vows-swift-justice-for-slain-boy

Wondergirl said:

Councilman Proposes 'Leiby's Law'; Brooklyn DA Vows 'Swift Justice' For Slain Boy

In the wake of the tragic murder of Leiby Kletzky, a councilman is proposing new legislation named for the 8-year-old schoolboy that's aimed at creating safe places across the city for children seeking help.


http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/da...-brooklyn-da-vows-swift-justice-for-slain-boy

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I wish a child did not have to die in order to have laws protecting them...it seems like every case creates a bid for a new law. It would be nice if lawmakers thought up things in a proactive way, instead of always reactive...JMO