17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #6

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mikeysmommom said:
As far as a field sobriety test before being under arrest usually they do one if the person displays signs of being on something.
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But they still aren't under arrest. I was just saying that that sentence made no sense. If you get hurt on the job - first thing is they drug test you. I've never heard of anyone having to be arrested BEFORE LE drug tests them.

That's all.


JMHO
 
mikeysmommom said:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager

Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

This is why all the confusion about being suspended.Why hide this?
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We were deluged with misinformation about his being suspended because of tardiness, and told that a week long out of school suspension is perfectly normal for such a thing. I'm glad some actual facts are coming out.
 
Anadarko said:
So what's the charge on that? Possession of a Zip-Loc? I hope my home is never searched....
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Had to have a strong odor or residue.If it had previously held a twinkie I would think parents would have fought the suspension,that stays in his school records. I know I would have fought it if it was not true.Just because their are no records available does not mean TM is squeaky clean ,just means because he is under 18 they aren't public.
 
rossva said:
BBM. Have any of the details of Martin's autopsy beeen revealed? IMO, perhaps Martin was high when the encounter happened. Maybe the headline should have read: "Man attacked by and kills drug-crazed teenager"? May also explain why Tracy Martin intially called LE to see if Trayvon had been arrested.
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If this was true - we would know it by now because it would backup LE's failure to act and LE is definitely in a CYA mode. So, while we don't know, because we have no autopsy report - I, myself, highly doubt this was the case.

Salem
 
rossva said:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...-sanford-police-investigator-suspicious-death

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel

There is a great deal of misinformation surrounding the Trayvon Martin shooting. Here are some of the most prominent misunderstandings:

Cops returned the gun to shooter George Zimmerman.
<snipped>

Cops believed Zimmerman had a "squeaky clean" criminal record.
<snipped>

The cops tested Trayvon for drugs but not Zimmerman.
<snipped>

Sanford cops usually call a prosecutor to the scene of a homicide but did not that night.
<snipped>

Zimmerman fired twice, a warning shot and a kill shot.
<snipped>
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BBM

This is one of my favorites.

I can see the officer sitting there with Mr. Martin who just lost his child and he puts his hand on his shoulder and says by the way Mr. Martin if it makes you feel better Zimmerman says he has a squeaky clean record. IMO


Cops believed Zimmerman had a "squeaky clean" criminal record.

Untrue, according to Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. During an early meeting with Trayvon's father, a Sanford police investigator told him Zimmerman described himself as being "squeaky clean." Trayvon's father "may have misconstrued" that the investigator was merely relaying Zimmerman's claim, Bonaparte Jr. wrote in a public statement.
 
Dr.Fessel said:
BBM

Wonder why they have that as a myth or half truth? And by the way they could have asked him to submit to one. They give alcohol test to people all the time that are not under arrest.

The cops tested Trayvon for drugs but not Zimmerman.

True, according to authorities. Trayvon underwent an autopsy, the same as in every other suspicious death in Florida, and as part of that, was tested for drugs. Zimmerman was not tested because he was not arrested.
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They can legally breathalyze individuals without reasonable suspicion in states with compulsory consent laws when that individual is driving. When the police arrived, Zimmerman was not driving. I don't believe the compulsory laws work then. He would have had to voluntarily submit to them. JMO
 
m00c0w said:
Because that is just the report from the officers that responded to the scene. They secured his weapon when they secured the scene; that's very common. Any other evidence collected after they turned Zimmerman over to Major Crimes would not be reflected in this report. In fact, someone posted an article here in the previous thread in which the spokesperson for the PD stated they "recovered" his clothing from the night of the shooting.

I'm not sure where this belief that the PD is so inept is coming from, aside from the media cherry-picking which reports and facts to release.
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ITA. It looks like the most likely scenario is that the police did the right thing. Seems far more likely than LE deciding to participate a conspiracy to cover for GZ because his dad is a retired judge and they hate black people.
 
Horace Finklestein said:
We were deluged with misinformation about his being suspended because of tardiness, and told that a week long out of school suspension is perfectly normal for such a thing. I'm glad some actual facts are coming out.
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Respectfully, we don't know this is a fact, just as wel don't know that he was suspended for being tardy was a fact.

I'll wait to hear from Miami Dade Public schools as to what he was suspended for and not some reporter that states "our school sources say".



JMHO
 
mysteriew said:
1
I am guessing that this is after all the walk toward Z and walking away from Z and following etc?

2 Coming out of the blue the way this is written, it makes me wonder just when Z had time to call 911? The way this is written, without the context then yeah Z sounds justified. But when you consider Z stalked him for a while, then approached him. TM probably thought he was about to be robbed. In his mind, he was probably defending himself.

I keep thinking of LE. LE are the people charged with public safety, and LE is required and trained to wait until they see a weapon before discharging their firearm. But Z expects something different?

Z is an LE wanna be. He doesn't want to work for it by taking the training, but he wants to be LE. He saw this kid in the neighborhood, and maybe it really did cross his mind that maybe he was looking for a home to break into. Z probably had a fantasy that he would "save" the neighborhood and everyone would praise him. He looked at the kid and saw he was younger and skinnier and thought he could take him. Or at least could hold him till LE got there to take custody and to shower him with praise.

But reality is a shock. When the kid he 'apprehended' was tougher than he was he got scared. And that is why he shot the gun. I guess being an LE is tougher than it looks.
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BBM

This is false. One just has to be in fear of the peril of death or great bodily harm to use deadly force in Florida. Police are also held to a different standard for many reasons. Most of the time, they are actually more protected than civilians because they are in the course of carrying out their official duties.
 
if it's true that zimmerman reached for his cell phone, maybe tm saw the gun and said ohhhhhhhhhhhhh no,,, i'm not going down without fighting...I know i would have fought for my life if somebody was stalking me for no reason and then i see a gun....dang right, I would have been slamming his head on the ground and doing anything else i could do...just a thought...jmo jmo and all that jazz
 
Horace Finklestein said:
ITA. It looks like the most likely scenario is that the police did the right thing. Seems far more likely than LE deciding to participate a conspiracy to cover for GZ because his dad is a retired judge and they hate black people.
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Especially since the Judge was retired from Virginia.
 
It really bothers me that GZ is a criminal justice student, very near achieving his degree, if his friend Joe is to be believed.

This tells me that GZ had a more than passing familiarity with the specifics of the stand your ground law and would know exactly what to say and portray in order to appear to fall within those specifics. :moo:
 
Wise Old Owl said:
But they still aren't under arrest. I was just saying that that sentence made no sense. If you get hurt on the job - first thing is they drug test you. I've never heard of anyone having to be arrested BEFORE LE drug tests them.

That's all.


JMHO
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Do you believe that your fourth amendment rights are suspended when the police start investigating you? Keep in mind that a private business does not have to adhere to these rights, especially in an at-will state.
 
m00c0w said:
They can legally breathalyze individuals without reasonable suspicion in states with compulsory consent laws when that individual is driving. When the police arrived, Zimmerman was not driving. I don't believe the compulsory laws work then. He would have had to voluntarily submit to them. JMO
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BBM

And we have no evidence they even asked him to voluntarily submit to a test.

They just quote a law saying they could not force him to and that is the reason they did not test him.
 
Wise Old Owl said:
I'll help by putting the answers to these questions that also appear in the article:





My answers are in blue. Interesting that a prosecutor was called but told they didn't have enough evidence to arrest and that prosecutor just took their word for it. And that GZ wasn't tested for drugs because he wasn't arrested. Really? But yet on the road - LE will do a field sobriety test BEFORE anyone is arrested. So, that comment to me makes no sense about why he wasn't tested.




JMHO
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Since he wasn't driving that wouldn't apply. But if the officers had any suspicion of drug or alcohol use, all they had to do was ask a judge for a warrant. Z was in public (public drunkeness?) and was involved in a shooting. All it would have taken would be for LE to ask him did you drink tonight, smell alcohol on him or make an observation that made it appear that he might have been drinking. That would give them the reasonable suspicion to request the warrant.
 
Horace Finklestein said:
We were deluged with misinformation about his being suspended because of tardiness, and told that a week long out of school suspension is perfectly normal for such a thing. I'm glad some actual facts are coming out.
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IDK,, i think i'm going to go with the teacher at the school right now, rather than this reporter with an unnamed source...i think the teacher would know for sure why he was suspended...jmo
 
tlcox said:
It really bothers me that GZ is a criminal justice student, very near achieving his degree, if his friend Joe is to be believed.

This tells me that GZ had a more than passing familiarity with the specifics of the stand your ground law and would know exactly what to say and portray in order to appear to fall within those specifics. :moo:
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He's a criminal justice student, not a law student. CJ is a broad program that covers everything from law enforcement to the court system to the prison system. It more focuses on the offenders, why they do what they do, and how they make their way through the justice system. I'm not even sure SYG would be covered in any great way.

JMO as a former CJ major
 
Here's a question:

Where was the gun while Trayvon was on top of GZ slamming his head repeatedly into the sidewalk?

Probably in GZ's waistband. Trayvon knew nothing of this gun. Even if he had found it while on top of GZ - then why didn't Trayvon grab it?

I'm so confused. GZ's slammed into a sidewalk - so where did GZ get grass stains on the back of his shrit from? Trayvon on top beating the carp outta GZ - yet GZ has a gun on him?

:waitasec:



JMHO
 
Dr.Fessel said:
BBM

And we have no evidence they even asked him to voluntarily submit to a test.

They just quote a law saying they could not force him to and that is the reason they did not test him.
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And we don't have evidence to suggest that they didn't conduct a field sobriety test. Or that Zimmerman was clearly sober and the officers didn't feel the need to do the test. Many people interacted with him that night; if one person thought he was under the influence of anything do you think it would come out by now?
 
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