Viable suspect: Damien Echols

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Miranda! said:
Were there a proper statutory duty of care for inmates on Death Row then Echols would have had his eyes tested and advice given; also visits from a dentist who did slightly more than just extractions!
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I don't doubt Echols got such medical treatment, as if he hadn't then he'd have grounds to file suit to stick it to the state and improve the treatment of death row inmates by doing so, yet he's done nothing of the sort.


Miranda! said:
Echols and Misskelly were never buddies.
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There's a lot of evidence to the contrary, much of it summed up here:

Here’s an exploration of the Misskelley connection, comprised of 14 accounts arranged chronologically from roughly Sept 1991 – May 1993, by the time period referenced within the accounts.

( 1 ) Deanna Holcomb, Damien’s former girlfriend . . . 1991-1992

Davidson: [W]hen were you going with uh – Damien?
Holcomb: During school, at uh – 1991 to ’92…[snip] The beginning of school to the end of school.
.
.
Fogleman: Alright. Did – during the course of your uh – going with Damien uh – did he have any particular friends? Friends in particular?
Holcomb: Um – yes sir.
Fogleman: Alright, who – who were they?
Holcomb: Jason, um – Jessie, Joey Lancaster and some other people.
.
.
Fogleman: Alright. Uh – and you said “Jason”, who are you referring to?
Holcomb: Jason Baldwin.
Fogleman: Alright. And you said “Jessie”?
Holcomb: Misskelley.

SOURCE: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/ebtrial/dholcomb.html

( 2 ) John Earl Perschke report . . . Jan/Feb 1992

Perschke, a teen, was alleged to have been attacked by Misskelley in presence of Echols-Baldwin-Buddy Lucas per Marion PD’s Don Bray.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/j_perschke_report.html

( 3 ) Domini Teer (Echols’ girlfriend) . . . Sept 1992

FOGLEMAN- …NOW…WHEN DAMION LIVED WITH HIS STEPFATHER, JACK…THAT WAS WHEN HIS PARENTS WERE IN OREGON, IS THAT RIGHT?
DOMINI- UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY. NOW, DID JESSIE COME AROUND THEN, WHEN DAMION LIVED WITH HIS STEPFATHER [starting in Sept of 1992, I believe - FJW].
DOMINI- UH HUH.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY.
DOMINI- BECAUSE HE SAID THAT JESSIE SAID THAT HE HAD CAME FROM CALIFORNIA. HE JUST HAD MOVED BACK FROM CALIFORNIA.
.
.
FOGLEMAN- AND, ….AND THEN JESSIE WAS AROUND QUITE A BIT THEN?
DOMINI- EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, LIKE ONCE OR TWICE, YEAH, I SAW HIM.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, AND WHEN HE WAS AROUND WHEN YOU SAW HIM, WHAT WOULD YA’LL BE DOING?
DOMINI- SITTING IN DAMION’S HOUSE.
FOGLEMAN- OKAY, JUST SIT AROUND AND TALK. WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT DAMION’S HOUSE, YOU TALKING ABOUT HIS…
DOMINI- HIS…
FOGLEMAN- JACK ECHOLS?
DOMINI- JACK ECHOL’S HOUSE.

( 4 ) Jerry Driver, Crittenden Juvenile Officer . . . Nov 1992

Driver: …Here we go uh, (inaudible) 11-15-93 or not of 93 it would be of 92. [1992, clearly - FJW] Uh, Damien, Jason, and Jessie were walking together over in Lakeshore (??) uh I don’t remember the street but we had made a traffic stop while I was over there with 619, from the sheriff’s office…
Durham: Was this the first time you were aware that Jessie Misskelley associated with Damien?
Driver: I had heard prior to that Jessie was, sometime in late summer, I started hearing Jessie’s name.

[**Note: Driver's recollection corresponds to Echols return from Oregon in Sept 1992, and Misskelley's supposed recent return from California - FJW]

Durham: But this the first time you seen Damien
Driver: This is the first time I seen them together
Durham: Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin, and Jessie Misskelley
Driver: And Jessie Misskelley
Durham: All 3 together
Driver: Uh-huh, walking down the street all dressed in black, long black coats, Damien had. . ., had a black slouch hat on, and they all 3 had staff’s um, and . . ., and I ask them what they were doing and they told me they were going. . ., going to watch, laugh, so I kept an eye on them pretty close after that and I saw them on several other occasions uh, both at uh. . ., uh Lakeshore and at the trailer park across where Jessie lived.
Durham: Highland Trailer Park
Driver: Highland Trailer Park, uh I seen them in both locations, uh I never did see Jessie with uh with Damien, um, down at Wal-Mart. They use to go down to Wal-Mart and shoplift, he and Domini Teer and. . ., and I think Jason probably Jessie to, but I just never saw Jessie with anything at that location.

SOURCE: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jerry_driver_statement.html

( 5 ) Jim McNease, garage boss to the two Jessies . . . May 1993 and before

“McNease said Misskelley and the other two murder suspects, Michael Wayne Echols and Jason Baldwin, rode bicycles a lot around Marion and West Memphis.” – Commercial Appeal, June 5, 1993

( 6 ) Vicki Hutcheson . . . May 1993

VICKIE: JESSIE TOLD ME ABOUT A FRIEND OF HIS NAMED DAMIEN AND THIS FRIEND DRANK BLOOD AND STUFF HE JUST KEPT GOING ON AND ON ON ABOUT HOW WEIRD HE WAS… SO BY…[WHAT] WAS COMING OUT IN THE PAPER AND STUFF I JUST THOUGHT HOW THEY WERE KILLED WAS ODD BUT YOU KNOW MAYBE IT WAS LIKE A DEVIL WORSHIPPING THING…AND I THOUGHT THAT THIS KID DOING THIS YOU KNOW MAYBE HE KNEW SOMETHING… JESSIE HAD TOLD ME THAT DAMIEN HANG OUT AT LAKESHORE AND SO I WENT OUT OF MY WAY YOU KNOW TO TO TRY TO GO AROUND LAKESHORE … I SAID [TO JESSIE] NO I THINK [DAMIEN]’S HOT I REALLY WANT TO GO OUT WITH HIM CAN YOU FIX ME UP WITH HIM AND…HE DID.
RIDGE: OKAY. ALRIGHT YOU MEET DAMIEN
(….picking up from VH’s 1994 statement….)
Victoria Hutcheson: Yeah, I go get him over at Jason’s house, which I thought was Damien’s house… And, uh, so Jessie gets out of the truck and says [to Damien], “Here you can sit in the middle. ” [Laughs] … So, uh, we dropped some movies off at Block Buster and then went over to my house and we were going to hang out. And, uh, I tried to pump him for information like [the police] wanted me to.

SOURCES: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/victoriah_statement.html and http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/vicki_h_exhibit_c.html

( 7 ) Domini Teer (Echols’ girlfriend) . . . May 1993

Domini says Jessie reappeared just after the crimes (this is in all likelihood the above-referenced meeting engineered by Vicki Hutcheson, returning videos to Blockbuster)

DOMINI- JESSIE CAME AROUND AFTER THEM KIDS WAS KILLED…[snip] OUT OF NOWHERE. I MEAN WE HADN’T SEEN JESSIE FOR MONTHS.
.
.
DOMINI- IT WAS LIKE, TWO DAYS AFTER THE COPS WERE COMING AROUND, UM….JESSIE CAME OVER TO JASON’S HOUSE ONE DAY WHILE I WAS SITTING THERE, AND WANTING DAMION TO TAKE BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES TO BLOCKBUSTER.
FOGLEMAN- UH HUH.
DOMINI- AND THEY WENT, AND I GUESS, TOOK BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES BACK, AND THEN WOULD UP OVER AT JESSIE’S HOUSE.

SOURCE: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/domit.html

( 8 ) Matt Baldwin (Jason’s brother) . . . May 1993

Further to the post-crime Jessie sighting. Again, the girl in truck may well have been Vicki Hutcheson (?)… in this version, Damien doesn’t go with Jessie and her in the truck, however.

MATTHEW: THE DAY AFTER [THE CRIMES], I KNOW DAMIEN WAS OVER THAT NIGHT BECAUSE I THINK JESSIE CAME OVER THAT NIGHT, JESSIE AND SOME GIRL WERE IN A TRUCK
FOGLEMAN: UH-HUH
MATTHEW: SOME GIRL IN TRUCK WERE TRYING TO GET DAMIEN TO COME OVER THERE, BUT DAMIEN DIDN’T WANT TO COME OVER THERE
FOGLEMAN: THAT’S THE NEXT… THAT WAS THE NEXT DAY?
MATTHEW: I THINK SO, YEA
FOGLEMAN: OKAY, YOU REMEMBER WHAT THE GIRL IN THE TRUCK LOOK LIKE?
MATTHEW: UH-UH
FOGLEMAN: KNOW WHO SHE WAS?
MATTHEW: SHE DIDN’T COME IN, SHE STAYED IN THE TRUCK
FOGLEMAN: OKAY
MATTHEW: AND THEN JESSIE LEFT IN THE TRUCK, AND DAMIEN STAYED OVER MY HOUSE
FOGLEMAN: ALRIGHT, DID DAMIEN SPEND THE NIGHT THERE THAT NIGHT?
MATTHEW: I THINK SO, I DON’T
FOGLEMAN: OKAY,
MATTHEW: I DON’T KNOW FOR SURE

SOURCE: http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/2657

( 9 & 10 ) Skating Rink – Holly George Statement, re: May 1993, plus Skating Rink Video

RIDGE: HOW LONG HAVE YOU KNOWN DAMIEN? BEFORE THE PHONE CALL [on May 5, 1993]?
HOLLY: BEFORE THAT PHONE CALL. ABOUT A WEEK
RIDGE: ABOUT A WEEK BEFORE THAT, OKAY, AND WHERE DID YOU MEET HIM?
HOLLY: SKATING RINK
.
.
RIDGE: YEA, YOU MENTIONED JESSIE, DO YOU KNOW JESSIE?
HOLLY: YEAH, I DID, BUT I MEAN HE WAS NEVER REALLY ONE OF MY FRIENDS
RIDGE: OKAY, WHERE DID YOU SEE HIM?
HOLLY: SKATING RINK
.
.
RIDGE: OK, AND WHAT WERE THEY JUST HAD THEIR OWN LITTLE GROUP OVER HERE AND JESSIE WAS IN ANOTHER GROUP OR WHAT WAS IT?
HOLLY: THEY HUNG OUT WITH THE SAME PEOPLE BUT THEY JUST NEVER REALLY LIKED JESSIE
RIDGE: OKAY, ALRIGHT, WAS THERE ANY KIND OF ARGUMENT GOING ON OR WAS IT JUST LIKE THEY WAS (ILLEGIBLE) PART OF THE SAME GROUP
HOLLY: I DON’T THINK THEY WERE PART OF THE SAME GROUP

SOURCE: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/hollyg1.html

Skating Rink Video – showing Misskelley playing pool and Echols(?) at a nearby table (32:50 – 33:08)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4527959120878708499

( 11 ) Gail Grinnell (Jason Baldwin’s Mom) . . . re: May 1993

“Jason, Damien, and Jessie were not all friends. At one point they had been friends, but at some point there had been some problems with t-shirts, and then Jessie had tried to steal a necklace of Jason’s. In May of 1993, Jessie was not one of Jason’s friends. He didn’t come by to our house, except once right before the murders he came to our house and said he had just come back from California.” (Rule 37 Hearing, 2009)

SOURCE: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/bm_rule37/bm_rule37_grinnell.html

( 12 ) Damien Echols – from Blood of the Innocents (1993/94/95?)

“Echols emphasized another point. Although he and Jason Baldwin were close friends, he had little patience for Jessie Misskelley. They seldom associated.
‘Two things that i dont have time for is stupidity and ugliness. and Jessie Misskelley had both of those qualities,’ he said coldly, then snickered.” (p.411)

( 13 ) Damien Echols – Almost Home (2005)

“I never did see Jessie a great deal, but we became familiar enough with each other to talk when we met. We’d run into him at the bowling alley and spend an hour or two playing pool, or hang out for a little while at the Lakeshore store. Jessie was no great conversationalist, but his antics could be amusing, and the odd things he did say were usually worth a chuckle. It was very apparent to anyone of even average intelligence that you weren’t dealing with the world’s brightest guy. He was a great deal like a child. He was harmless.”

( 14 ) Jason Baldwin, in 2012

“Somehow or another, they made the decision to set me and my two best friends up for the crime…”

SOURCE: Discussion with Jason Baldwin, “Juvenile Justice Matters,” April 2012 – http://www.blogtalkradio.com/jjmatters/2012/04/19/discussion-west-memphis-3s-jason-baldwin
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And there's a variety of other such evidence posted elsewhere on that page too, but I doubt that will stop many here from defending Echols' lies in face of all evidence while hypocritically slandering others as being akin to flat earthers for doing otherwise.
 
Oh dear that flat earth comment stung you?

I stand by what I said. It was a small community, however, and it goes without saying that all three might wel have been in the same place at the same time on many an occasion. But, as I said, Jason had out-grown Jessie by 93 and they had few interests in common. Even Driver, in whom I have no trust(!), suggests very firmly above that they did not always hang around together!

There were not that many places that teens could go and hang out in that area, especially if money was short. It might well be true that JM would have liked to have spent more time hanging out with JB but I think he found DE rather intimidating and most probably not an easy person to hang out with.

If you come across overlapping interests I would be interested to know them.

Echols' rather nasty comments about Misskelly above are quite revealing!

If Echols had a bicycle it is odd that he was usually always seen walking!
 
Mrs G Norris said:
I have noticed while reviewing old footage of Damien, especially in interviews, that he has accused others of a number of things in relation to this case.

I am not just talking about accusing John Mark Byers of being the killer, or of more recent accusations against Terry Hobbs, but he has also accused Jerry Driver of demanding sexual favours from teen boys, guards of beating him when he first arrived in prison, and of being raped on death row.

I'm going to keep each accusation in a new post and add links of him making the accusations, if he has retracted them at a later date or if they have been proved or backed up by another party it would be interesting to see that too.

He has had a lot to say over the years.
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People with paranoid schizophrenia believe all kinds of people are after them in some way. Even when not actively psychotic, it's very common to see paranoid ideation in older people diagnosed with schizophrenia. Paranoid ideation is also very common in Borderline Personality Disorder.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse
 
Miranda! said:
Oh dear that flat earth comment stung you?.
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No, such psychological projection only prompts pity from me.

Miranda! said:
It was a small community, however, and it goes without saying that all three might wel have been in the same place at the same time on many an occasion.
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Sure, out front of Baldwin's house the day after the murders according to Baldwin's brother, and again at Baldwin's a few days later before going to Misskelley's house together according to the mother of Echols' son being two notable pieces of evidence among the many which prove beyond any reasonable doubt that all three were in fact friends around the time they committed the murders together.
 
kyleb said:
Sure, out front of Baldwin's house the day after the murders according to Baldwin's brother, and again at Baldwin's a few days later before going to Misskelley's house together according to the mother of Echols' son being two notable pieces of evidence among the many which prove beyond any reasonable doubt that all three were in fact friends around the time they committed the murders together.
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Jason's brother said Jessie came over and wanted Damien to leave with him, but Damien didn't want to go with him. Domini said Jessie came by after the murders and that the visit was "out of nowhere" because they hadn't seen Jessie in months. That doesn't sound like they were all friends.


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Jason and Damien were the close friends, Jessie had been closer to Jason when younger, he and Jason lived at the same trailer park though yes? I think Jessie was a friend, but not as close as Jason and Damien were to each other.

It stands to reason why Damien and Jason tried to distance themselves from Jessie once they were all arrested and deny the connection.
 
kyleb said:
Here's the docket for the FBI lawsuit, and while I've plenty of qualms with the FBI, I commend them in this case for not giving the chupacabras more fuel for their witch hunts.
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Thank you Kyleb. I've seen this sitting over at Callahans, but have never actually looked at it. This guy lies so much, I just don't believe much of anything he says.
 
While I'm exploring the wide variety of alternate suspects I can't ignore the fact that, despite the many glaring problems with the evidence presented against him court, Echols was actually a good suspect for this crime.

And as I have asked posters to please respect the spirit of these threads elsewhere, I likewise ask that we here refrain from the usual endless quibbling and the usual chestnuts regarding the fact he was already convicted -- we have heard all this before, and there's OTHER threads for arguing guilt or innocence, many of them, for that purpose.

-- This-- thread is for exploring the reasons WHY you think Echols WAS a good suspect. Prior to the court case, let's say.

Please do not derail it. Please, TRY to treat this as a -suspect- thread, rather than a 'he's guilty! cuz the court said so!" thread. Ok?

That said, here's one good reason, to kick the thread off:

-- Damien was known to be violent, and to make threats of extreme violence toward other kids and adults around him.
 
Well Echols' history of violent thoughts and actions as detailed here made him a notable potential suspect from the start. Then, on 5/9 Narlene Hollingsworth reported having Echols on the night of the murders just a few hundred yards from where the bodies where found and dirtied as someone who'd just hidden the bodies in the creek would be, which bumped him up on the potential suspect list.

It wasn't until 5/26 that evidence made Echols and actual suspect, when William Winford Jones came forward with a detailed account of Echols confessing to him. Around eight months later Ron Lax convinced Jones to retract his story, but at least until then it made Echols a better suspect than anyone else. Then on 6/3 Jessie Misskelley was questioned in the hopes he might've heard something from Echols too when Misskelley confessed to participating in the murders along with Echols, and that together with the aforementioned evidence made Echols along with the other two arrested that day the three best suspects there's ever been in this case, not even counting the rest of the evidence which was later uncovered and presented at trial or otherwise.
 
kyleb said:
William Winford Jones came forward with a detailed account of Echols confessing to him. Around eight months later Ron Lax convinced Jones to retract his story, but at least until then it made Echols a better suspect than anyone else.
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How do you mean Lax convinced him to retract? Is there proof of that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yeah, images of the hearing transcript where both Jones and Ron Lax's empoly both Cheryl Aycock testified to as much is linked near the bottom of the page on William Winford Jones which I linked previously, though this HTML version makes for easier reading.
 
All three Echols, Baldwin & Misskelley alibis fail for the TOD which the defense expert says is from 6:00pm to 10:00pm. The defense kept this out of the trial because it made their clients look bad, but this is what the defense expert had as TOD.

Page 515
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/rule37/june10.html



22 A. Mr. Baldwin's lawyers -- one of their key issues in their
23 defense was trying to establish that the time of death did not
24 occur between the -- this is kind of general -- 6:00 o'clock to
25 10:00 o'clock p.m. time period on the day of the murders.


515

1 Their theory was it took place sometime after midnight,
2 around 2:00 o'clock to 4:00 a.m., somewhere in that time period.
3 So that was one of the things that Doctor Sperry had looked
4 at for us to see if he could determine the time of death and
5 determine which of those windows it would fit in.
6 Q. When he looked at that particular information, are you
7 aware as to what input he gave back to you regarding an estimate
8 as to time of death?
9 A. His conclusion was it would not have been the 2:00 to 4:00
10 a.m. time period, that it would have been between the 6:00 and
11 10:00 p.m. -- on the days the boys were missing.
12 Q. That 6:00 to 10:00 p.m. would have been something that
13 would have been consistent with the state's theory of the case,
14 correct?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. So y'all kind of kept that tight to your vest and didn't
17 reveal that because it's not helpful to your client?
18 A. That's correct.
 
A couple of reasons that Echols is not off my personal suspect radar:

- He was bragging about -something- to do with the crime, I believe, at the softball park (though I do think this all was embellished a good deal by the witnesses too). Most importantly, he admits he said something, there.. Echols being what I consider to be a compulsive liar who constantly bignoted himself by trying to seem scary and mysterious, it's hard to say whether he meant any of it. But it bothers me, nonetheless and I think it is a good reason for eyeballing him.

- Again, the liar thing must be considered -- but I don't see why Damien would flat out deny knowing the area of the crime scene or having lived nearby. Granted, it would have been damaging for his case, so there's a reason to lie. But as simply walking past a place isn't particularly incriminating a detail, that he lied -and continued to lie up to the present - still bothers me.
 
kyleb said:
Yeah, images of the hearing transcript where both Jones and Ron Lax's empoly both Cheryl Aycock testified to as much is linked near the bottom of the page on William Winford Jones which I linked previously, though this HTML version makes for easier reading.
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That was pretty good. I find that very odd that the witnesses were possibly being intimidated by Lax and then when Jones had to be escorted by Aycock that was just plain weird if you ask me.
 
Yeah, it is an odd story. I'd really like to hear that recording Aycock, and see the rest of Ron Lax's records for that matter, though I won't be holding my breath for that.
 
The alibi failure is a good reason to suspect Echols -- and remember, this thread is ONLY about Echols.. Feel free to elaborate on that point if you like, I'd appreciate a concise breakdown of that for the list of reasons.
 
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