NCAA Sanctions: "DP" for Penn Football, or...?

Should the NCAA give Penn State the "death penalty"?

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BigCat said:
Being exposed caused the damage. They almost got away with it. Joe Pa managed to hang around long enough to get the all-time wins record.
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The damage would have been minimal to nonexistent. Paterno was not the one molesting children. Just turn it over to LE and let them handle it.
 
Reader said:
I understand what you are saying and that may have been true if there was only 2001 to consider. But I think Paterno et al were concerned that by reporting in 2001, the 1998 incident would come out and the fact that they all knew about it too.

I know no charges were made by the DA but that is separate to me and I think most people, from them realizing that JS was a pedophile and still did not take him out of the football program by firing him, and letting him continue to bring children to the facilities after 1998. Also they would have to answer why they gave him such a good retirement in 1999, knowing this previous situation. And there is no good answer to that other than JS had something on Paterno or the others. Maybe Paterno was afraid JS would talk to protect himself.
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What they "knew" was that the DA and DPW investigated, and didn't find anything criminal, or even improper (from DPW).

Even a finding of abuse doesn't rise to the level of a criminal charge. One comment from a former GA stated that it was common for staff to shower with children, especially their own, in those facilities.

I started high school at 11 and had gym classes, where a shower was required. Looking back on it, I'm sure that there were seniors there who were 18 or older, in the shower or in the locker room. There was never any physical contact, but I'm sure we were naked.

Gricar and Lauro gave Spanier, Curley, Schultz and Paterno the ultimate out for reporting Sandusky in 2001. It wasn't the crime, as far as these guys are concerned. It was the coverup. This is basically Watergate, with cut rate Nixons.
 
Mark Emmert's swift, bold action against Penn State might mark a new era in NCAA enforcement

So now comes Monday morning in Indianapolis, when in a show of force Mark Emmert, the fifth president of the NCAA, will seize long-dormant power and announce significant sanctions on the Penn State football program for its role in the Jerry Sandusky sexual molestation crisis.

Sources say the school will continue to field a team. However, it will deal with heavy scholarship losses over the next three-to-five years as well as a multiyear ban in postseason competition and multimillion dollar financial penalties.

The standard line rippling through college sports Sunday is that while Penn State will be spared the death penalty, the penalties will make them wish they weren't.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf-...te-sanctions-joe-paterno-graham-spanier-.html
 
LNL said:
Mark Emmert's swift, bold action against Penn State might mark a new era in NCAA enforcement

So now comes Monday morning in Indianapolis, when in a show of force Mark Emmert, the fifth president of the NCAA, will seize long-dormant power and announce significant sanctions on the Penn State football program for its role in the Jerry Sandusky sexual molestation crisis.

Sources say the school will continue to field a team. However, it will deal with heavy scholarship losses over the next three-to-five years as well as a multiyear ban in postseason competition and multimillion dollar financial penalties.

The standard line rippling through college sports Sunday is that while Penn State will be spared the death penalty, the penalties will make them wish they weren't.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf-...te-sanctions-joe-paterno-graham-spanier-.html
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very interesting...espn radio this afternoon in the person of a mark wilson is reacting negatively to all this, and has been complaining all afternoon as to the extent of the punishments and the manner in whcih the 2A has arrived at these sanctions...espn has put other experts on, all leaning towards questioning the 2A's proceedures and actions in this case. the on air guy complains bitterely against all this.

while its obviously true the 2A has stepped way outside its normal operating proceedure here, the football world at large still doesnt understand that KING FOOTBALL must be disciplined and controlled by the universities that host the game. lots of football fans just dont get this, but, thank God, the President of the NCAA does.

psu is gonna pay. the football program is gonna suffer, despite the disbelief and dismay of the many gung ho footballers nation wide. i mean, they are whinning about the "process the 2A used and they are saying no NCAA laws were actually violated" Thats their problem with making penn state pay big time. penn state folks are flumoxed...many of them thought the program wouldnt be hurt by this mess at all. Really. they did. they figgured they were gonna walk cause, in their opinion, no ncaa laws were violated. they just missed the little problem of the football program running the university rather than the other way around. that they consider not relevant I guess. mark emmert disagrees with them, and its his opinion that matters.

whew..thankfully.
 
SherlockKittyCat said:
As someone who witnessed the NCAA "death penalty" first hand (my alma mater Southern Methodist--1987) I can tell you that it is TOO HIGH a price to pay.

Once ranked nationally, SMU has NEVER recovered. I believe it contributed to the demise of the Southwest Conference, too.

No school should have NCAA death penalty, esp. for non-football violations.

Just my 0.02c!
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Frankly, I don't care if their stupid football program EVER recovers. This was an institutional coverup for MANY years. The program reaped the benefits while they were looking the other way as Sandusky raped children in their showers. This is their own doing (or undoing) and it is richly deserved. Nothing can ever be done to repair the lives of the people who were hurt while this animal was allowed to come and go on the campus long after he stopped working there.

I only wish Joe Paterno could have lived long enough to see the football program go down the tubes, however it goes down.
 
oh for gosh sakes, "SMU has never recovered"...well yeah, they have never recovered to the statuts of their program when they were cheating and lying and paying players like a pro team. when they had to stop that, they became as bad as they were b4 they started doing it...and folks act like they were somehow supposed to be as good when they cant cheat as they were when they could. like they are supposed to be vying for national champioships like they did even though they could cheat.

they recovered all right. right back to where they belonged all along.
 
Yeah, I'm just not impressed with these "bold" sanctions. Okay, so they lose scholarships, have a multi-year ban from bowls and a big financial hit, I still don't think that's enough and the commenting that PSU "will wish they had the death penalty" because of the "bold" sanctions against them is a joke.

Penn State's complete lack of accountability is appalling and clearly they need to be pounded, not spared.

But I suppose we shall see how tomorrow goes...
 
Apart from the "death penalty" for however many years, what are the other options the NCAA might take?
 
ynotdivein said:
Apart from the "death penalty" for however many years, what are the other options the NCAA might take?
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Loss of scholarships and bans on post-season play for a number of years, forfeiture of past wins.

USC lost I think 10 schollys a year and was banned from post-season play for two years after the Reggie Bush thing.

I would love to see past wins vacated, thereby eliminating JP's status as winningest NCAA Div 1 coach. Even if only by an asterisk after his name. That would be true poetic justice in my view.

I believe PSU deserves worse punishment as well, of course.
 
ynotdivein said:
Apart from the "death penalty" for however many years, what are the other options the NCAA might take?
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Several have been mentioned.

Loss of scholarships.

No off campus recruiting.

No bowl games.

No live television.

A reduction in coaching staff.

A heavy fine.

Some of these are from other cases where there were sanctions.

Keep in mind that things like no recruiting will hurt the team 3-4 years after the sanctions are over. So even a one year sanction will be felt until 2015 or 2016.

BigCat wrote a few days ago:

BigCat said:
I could see your other four suggested penalties as a substitute for the death penalty. They might even be more severe than the DP in the long run.
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He could very well be right. These could be, for lack of a better description, "death penalty-lite."

Look, I was one of those people who wanted to wait until there was solid evidence. I'm a Penn State alumnus, and while not a football fan, I had a great deal of respect and admiration for Paterno's conduct in putting academics first. Couple that with writing a blog about someone involved. I'm not unsympathetic to Penn State or Centre County.

After what I've seen and heard, I cannot in any way justify these acts and feel that there should be severe punishment.

This was not just a football scandal, this was a Penn State University scandal. The institution is responsible for some of this. I'm now more worried about the effect on the community.
 
IzzyBlanche said:
I would love to see past wins vacated, thereby eliminating JP's status as winningest NCAA Div 1 coach. Even if only by an asterisk after his name. That would be true poetic justice in my view.
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I don't like to rewrite history and I don't see anything that the Big Four did that effected the outcome a game, or even an extra field goal in a 40-7 victory.

Give Paterno a hollow title and remind everyone just how hollow it is.
 
CBS, who initially reported that Penn State's punishment would be "unprecedented," is now reporting that the NCAA will fine Penn State at least $30 million and could fine the school as much as $60 million and create an endowment for "children's causes" with the money.
---
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the rest here: Deadspin
 
J. J. in Phila said:
I don't like to rewrite history and I don't see anything that the Big Four did that effected the outcome a game, or even an extra field goal in a 40-7 victory.
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It's abstract and amorphous, to be sure, but I still think covering up the scandal to preserve JP's good-guy image (among other reasons) could be construed as an unfair recruiting advantage. And who knows how many wins JP would have amassed had players opted to go somewhere else if Sandusky's actions and PSU's looking the other way had been publicly revealed in 2001.

Give Paterno a hollow title and remind everyone just how hollow it is.
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Interesting idea. What kind of reminder do you envision?

Simply letting the record stand as is will only provide ammunition for the Joepologist football fans.
 
IzzyBlanche said:
It's abstract and amorphous, to be sure, but I still think covering up the scandal to preserve JP's good-guy image (among other reasons) could be construed as an unfair recruiting advantage. And who knows how many wins JP would have amassed had players opted to go somewhere else if Sandusky's actions and PSU's looking the other way had been publicly revealed in 2001.
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Had Penn State officials been party to covering up 1998, I would agree. There is, so far, no evidence of that. It would have been one rotten apple that was tossed out.


Interesting idea. What kind of reminder do you envision?

Simply letting the record stand as is will only provide ammunition for the Joepologist football fans.
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Always put an asterisk after that, "Fired a week later because of his role in reporting child molestation." Maybe put up a commemoration to the victims on campus. You can admit that Paterno had a great football record, and a horrible person. His own words say it best, "Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good."
 
J. J. in Phila said:
Had Penn State officials been party to covering up 1998, I would agree. There is, so far, no evidence of that. It would have been one rotten apple that was tossed out.
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I have said this before but I will say it once more.

Agreed. No evidence that PSU officials tried to cover up 1998 at the time.

However. If the 2001 incident had been made public, and it came out at that time that PSU officials knew about the 1998 incident but made no effort afterward, at the very least to prevent JS from bringing kids onto campus, or making sure he was chaperoned, or any other of numerous actions they could have taken knowing about 1998, then scandal would have erupted and recruiting gone down the drain.
 
IzzyBlanche said:
However. If the 2001 incident had been made public, and it came out at that time that PSU officials knew about the 1998 incident but made no effort afterward, at the very least to prevent JS from bringing kids onto campus, or making sure he was chaperoned, or any other of numerous actions they could have taken knowing about 1998, then scandal would have erupted and recruiting gone down the drain.
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The thing is, they have cover. You have this, supposedly, hard hitting DA that doesn't charge, and is there to attempt to justify his actions. You have DPW, that has a much lower standard of evidence saying there was problem in 1998.

The Big Four can easily say, **Hey, we assumed this guys knew what they were doing.**
 
Tipstaff said:
After reading this LA Times article it seems the NCAA would have to make their recommendation prior to the start of the season IF they select the death penalty. Otherwise what would happen to the players who play in the first game - could they then elect to go to other schools and would they be eligible to play in this current season?
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no. is what I am thinking.
J. J. in Phila said:
Well, I do think the bulk of Penn State and the community were not involved.
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J. J. in Phila said:
Several have been mentioned.

Loss of scholarships.

No off campus recruiting.

No bowl games.

No live television.

A reduction in coaching staff.

A heavy fine.

Some of these are from other cases where there were sanctions.

Keep in mind that things like no recruiting will hurt the team 3-4 years after the sanctions are over. So even a one year sanction will be felt until 2015 or 2016.

BigCat wrote a few days ago:



He could very well be right. These could be, for lack of a better description, "death penalty-lite."

Look, I was one of those people who wanted to wait until there was solid evidence. I'm a Penn State alumnus, and while not a football fan, I had a great deal of respect and admiration for Paterno's conduct in putting academics first. Couple that with writing a blog about someone involved. I'm not unsympathetic to Penn State or Centre County.

After what I've seen and heard, I cannot in any way justify these acts and feel that there should be severe punishment.
Direct solely at those responsible and no one else!

This was not just a football scandal, this was a Penn State University scandal. The institution is responsible for some of this. I'm now more worried about the effect on the community.
Click to expand...
It was a ONE sick pedophile who preyed on young boys and used Penn State as way to hide his sickness.

Get rid of those tied to Sandusky. Take their pensions away.
Don't squash the dreams of the young guys that are not related to this!
Chances are that most of the players would love to leave and play somewhere else!
If that can be arranged I might change my mind.
moo
 
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...owl-ban-crippling-scholarship-losses/related/

But consider this snippet from the NCAA’s website related to charges a program can face:


“However, if an institution agrees with the facts that the investigation has uncovered, the case can enter the summary-disposition process before a notice of allegations is provided. In summary disposition, the school and the enforcement staff agree on the facts and a set of penalties to be imposed; no hearing before the Committee on Infractions is necessary.”

Such a case would bypass the normal NCAA investigative protocol, and indeed that’s what we have here.

Hmmmm. After reading the bolded part, I would bet that Erikson is already aware of the NCAA's sanctions and has agreed to them. Hence, the removal of the statue at such an odd time of day on a Sunday. It makes me wonder if 2A will take away some of JP's wins. The city of Grambling sent a letter requesting they do so, I read somewhere. (GU's coach held the most wins record til JP surpassed it.) All just my speculation.

I guess we'll find out at 9 am. It's gonna be a busy news day!

moo

wm
 
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