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Old 05-01-2010, 06:09 PM
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**Krista** (or any local)) have you search any info on this place? This first area they really started searching from

** (members of that search party were at Thornhill Farm off Highway 17 in McClellanville. The farm is serving as the staging area for the expanded search for Brittanee Drexel. Law enforcement officers from across the Lowcountry and the Grand Strand are planning to meet there Friday morning. )
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:44 PM
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Krista,
Great information and links. I don't think the public dock is the one that was searched.
http://www.carolinalive.com/news/photos.aspx?id=386560
The first pic on this link shows the searched dock in the background. It is covered with pine straw (pic 1 & 3). I don't see any pine trees in the public dock photo. Also, in pic 1, you can see past the dock to the other side of the water. The water in that area looks muddy and dark and not as wide as the public dock pic. The dock of interest appears to be in an isolated location, not on the main river. It possibly could belong to someone who only comes down occasionally to fish and doesn't live there. Local kids know which places they can party at when the owner is absent.
Thanks for all your efforts!
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krista View Post

Can you do me a favor? Can you rewatch that video that you posted yesterday of the officer who is leading the investigation....the one where the reporter quotes his horrible English? ETA: video: http://www2.counton2.com/cbd/news/lo...l_case/128176/
Watching that video, listening to exactly what he said, IMHO he seems to be saying that the POI's WERE involved in the crime...that THESE people are the ones responsible for her abduction and presumed murder. He also seems to heavily imply that Brittanee or evidence of Brittanee's last wherabouts ARE IN the Santee River area....but that the POI's are 'FROM SOUTH CAROLINA'....not necessarily from N Santee. Just wondering if you got anything or *felt* like anything different or more specific was being said in that video.
I agree with your assessment of the video. It sounded like the POI's are the suspects. He said they needed the "key piece of evidence to establish probably cause.

The most well-known definition of probable cause is "a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime".[1] Another common definition is "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true".[2]

In the context of warrants, the Oxford Companion to American Law defines probable cause as "information sufficient to warrant a prudent person's belief that the wanted individual had committed a crime (for an arrest warrant) or that evidence of a crime or contraband would be found in a search (for a search warrant)". "Probable cause" is a stronger standard of evidence than a reasonable suspicion, but weaker than what is required to secure a criminal conviction. Even hearsay can supply probable cause if it is from a reliable source or supported by other evidence, according to the Aguilar-Spinelli test.

Last edited by stillwatersc; 05-01-2010 at 09:16 PM. Reason: move wikipedia link
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:00 PM
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Looks like dog is finding something???

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseC View Post
Heres a link to the video of dock and where they searched,not sure you seen it hope it helps :-)
http://www.carolinalive.com/news/photos.aspx?id=386560
click on photo of BD and video play in few secs
Wondering if anyone on WS has seen cadaver/search dogs work and knows if they lay down at a spot where they detect something. The dog in this video seems to follow a possible hit out to the end of this dock and even at one points looks like he is finding something and lays down briefly to signal this. Anyone know if this is how they act when they think they have found something? TIA.

Oh yes RoseC....great find. I thought it was interesting how poor Dawn happened to be down in MB for something else when this tip came in.

Last edited by Strawberry Fields; 05-01-2010 at 09:26 PM. Reason: Corrected spelling of dogs.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:07 PM
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Wondering if anyone on WS has seen cadaver/search does work and knows if they lay down at a spot where they detect something. The dog in this video seems to follow a possible hit out to the end of this dock and even at one points looks like he is finding something and lays down briefly to signal this. Anyone know if this is how they act when they think they have found something? TIA.

Oh yes RoseC....great find. I thought it was interesting how poor Dawn happened to be down in MB for something else when this tip came in.
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Old 05-02-2010, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseC View Post
**Krista** (or any local)) have you search any info on this place? This first area they really started searching from

** (members of that search party were at Thornhill Farm off Highway 17 in McClellanville. The farm is serving as the staging area for the expanded search for Brittanee Drexel. Law enforcement officers from across the Lowcountry and the Grand Strand are planning to meet there Friday morning. )
Wow, ROSE!!

You're really outdoing yourself!! I didn't hear that this is where they staged the search from!!
Turns out, it is RIGHT THERE at the entry of that same community!!
Here's a map of the area....thornhill farms is labeled as "C" and is just to the west of Hwy 17. You'd have to pass Thornhill to get to the area where I think the pictured dock is located. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...18539&t=h&z=16

Last edited by krista; 05-02-2010 at 12:50 AM.
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  #507  
Old 05-02-2010, 01:09 AM
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This may or may not help, just thought I would thow it out there in relation to all the places you guys are mapping...IIRC, Pole Yard Landing was the first place named that LE were concentrating and centering their efforts. From there, they moved the 'staging area', as it was called, to Thornhill Farms. Also, right in this time, there was a lot of interest in and a thorough search of the property of Hopsewee Plantation made.

krista, I am not positive, but 'C' on the Google maps looks like it is right across from Pole Yard Landing, then to the west of that is Hopsewee and I think Thornhill Farms is a little further south on 17, just past Seven Mile Road. RoseC may know for sure since she lives closer to that area. Seven Mile Road sticks in my memory too for some reason, but it could just be that I remember it from some mapping I did way back last spring.

Last edited by SeaNymph; 05-02-2010 at 01:27 AM.
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  #508  
Old 05-02-2010, 01:12 AM
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Rose,

Based on these articles, it looks like Thornhill farms was just a staging area, not a potential site area. Thornhill serves the community with organic fruit and veggies...and they offer 'horticultural therapy' for disabled teens in the area.
While they don't appear to have any connection to this case, outside of having enough room and grounds to host all of the searchers, I do think it's interesting that this place works with teens from local high schools. While they are disabled, they are capable of doing farm work---which is seriously difficult work--so it seems possible that one or more of them COULD have driven a vehicle or harmed Brittanee. That being said, I really think this is just the staging area, and I sincerely hope this has NO connection to the teens working this farm.
It looks like THIS search was for the month following Brittanee's disappearance...in may, not december. I'm still looking for a later search and staging site for december...but I really believe this is the exact area they are focusing on!! Wish we could find that dock. During the first few searches, LE seemed split between the Frances Marion forest area and N Santee River. In December and again in January, they moved to a more specific area in and around the N Santee River....based on all of the new tips. Remember, Originally Brittanee's phone was pinged to the South Santee area, which would be very near Frances Marion Forest. I think her phone is in a different location than she is.
http://www.live5news.com/global/Story.asp?s=10325820
http://www.wmbfnews.com/global/Story.asp?s=10327696

Last edited by krista; 05-02-2010 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 05-02-2010, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNymph View Post
This may or may not help, just thought I would thow it out there in relation to all the places you guys are mapping...IIRC, Pole Yard Landing was the first place named that LE were concentrating and centering their efforts. From there, they moved the 'staging area', as it was called, to Thornhill Farms. Also, right in this time, there was a lot of interest in and a thorough search of the property of Hopsewee Plantation made.
I'm just stunned at how many people already knew that THESE were the areas being searched!! IMHO, this is a fairly small area....lots of land, relatively few houses. I haven't ever heard LE mention any of these areas...and I really thought they were keeping everything out of the media.

I really feel like LE might be releasing tiny snippets....little crumbs of info here and there...to see how certain people react. IMHO.
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  #510  
Old 05-02-2010, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by RubyRed View Post
I have asked sarx to answer as she is verified in animal search and rescue.


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Hee Hee, sounds like I am verified in searching and rescuing animals doesn't it! Sorry, long night.

To answer the question regarding alerts for a HRD/cadaver dog. Different dogs take naturally to different alerts. Laying down absolutely would be one possible alert. If you were watching a video and the dog was in fact working and did this, I would say yes, it's a definite possibility. Just a side note, I always use caution when watching media clips though as I myself have had them show clips of me taking my dog outta the truck for a potty break and dubbed it as us "searching".
Hope that helps.
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Old 05-02-2010, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krista View Post
Rose,

Based on these articles, it looks like Thornhill farms was just a staging area, not a potential site area. Thornhill serves the community with organic fruit and veggies...and they offer 'horticultural therapy' for disabled teens in the area.
While they don't appear to have any connection to this case, outside of having enough room and grounds to host all of the searchers, I do think it's interesting that this place works with teens from local high schools. While they are disabled, they are capable of doing farm work---which is seriously difficult work--so it seems possible that one or more of them COULD have driven a vehicle or harmed Brittanee. That being said, I really think this is just the staging area, and I sincerely hope this has NO connection to the teens working this farm.
It looks like THIS search was for the month following Brittanee's disappearance...in may, not december. I'm still looking for a later search and staging site for december...but I really believe this is the exact area they are focusing on!! Wish we could find that dock. During the first few searches, LE seemed split between the Frances Marion forest area and N Santee River. In December and again in January, they moved to a more specific area in and around the N Santee River....based on all of the new tips. Remember, Originally Brittanee's phone was pinged to the South Santee area, which would be very near Frances Marion Forest. I think her phone is in a different location than she is.
http://www.live5news.com/global/Story.asp?s=10325820
http://www.wmbfnews.com/global/Story.asp?s=10327696
It was thats area they setup camp and gather,then they moved on down the road,,but few searchs was done in MB at old air force base,and few other areas,Lord ive read to many news clippings for this nite,,,,good work keep it up :-)
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  #512  
Old 05-02-2010, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krista View Post
I'm just stunned at how many people already knew that THESE were the areas being searched!! IMHO, this is a fairly small area....lots of land, relatively few houses. I haven't ever heard LE mention any of these areas...and I really thought they were keeping everything out of the media.

I really feel like LE might be releasing tiny snippets....little crumbs of info here and there...to see how certain people react. IMHO.
all those areas was in first few months of searching it was in about every SC paper and few from NY,,
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  #513  
Old 05-02-2010, 01:56 AM
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This may be a good source regarding the progressive searches. Looks like they have done a good job posting all news clips here:

http://www.helpfindbrittaneedrexel.c...s_Updates.html

I was trying to read a road sign on one of them, looked like from December, maybe "Caladonia", "Caldonna" or "Ladonna" on the road sign, not sure.

Look specifically at the clips, third down, just above the paragraph starting "Dawn Drexel of Rochester lays a wreath..." and then about three more below that, above the clip says "Search for missing teenager continues" from scnow.com, channel 13, 2:22 in length. If we could pin down that street sign we could get a much better idea of where this December search concentrated. I tried to stop the video at about 1:31-1:33, best I get looks more like "Ladonna".

Last edited by SeaNymph; 05-02-2010 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 05-02-2010, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by krista View Post
I'm just stunned at how many people already knew that THESE were the areas being searched!! IMHO, this is a fairly small area....lots of land, relatively few houses. I haven't ever heard LE mention any of these areas...and I really thought they were keeping everything out of the media.

I really feel like LE might be releasing tiny snippets....little crumbs of info here and there...to see how certain people react. IMHO.
Oh yeah, local news early on gave very specific locations like that. It just seems now with so much time passed, it has more generalized in the media to a broader description as just North Santee/Lower GT county.
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Old 05-02-2010, 02:11 AM
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sarx, regarding the dogs, I think this is the picture that piqued interest.

http://www.carolinalive.com/news/photos.aspx?id=386560
#2 in the slideshow

Wonder why would the handler get down on the dock like that unless the dog alerted?

And am I missing something, a paw in motion, or is that a 3-legged dog?

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  #516  
Old 05-02-2010, 04:11 AM
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I'm not sure who to quote, so I'm just saying this as general info.

I'm going to rehash a rumor from January sparked by a local.

Some may remember. I took this with a grain of salt at the time and I still do.

A person suggested that searches were heavily focused in and around a farm/barn. One even suggested that B had been found in a barn. This area was located in McClellanville.

I'm unsure of the credibility here, and I do not believe B was found and we have heard nothing yet, but I just wanted to bring this rumor to the forefront again for new eyes. Especially since we have talks about a barn again.

Thanks for the hard work!
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by krista View Post
Hey y'all,
I Love my southern friend, Krista!
Trying to figure out a more specific location for where those glasses were found. ]
http://www.carolinalive.com/news/story.aspx?id=389366
"The Varns found the glasses on the western side of the Santee Delta, a state-protected wildlife refuge made up of thousands and thousands of acres."
^^That is a little misleading. The W and E Santee Delta WMAs make 1,722 acres, most of it being the Santee Delta East WMA.

The Santee-Delta WMA is located on U.S. Highway 17 between the North and South Santee Rivers, approximately 12 miles south of Georgetown.

I attached a couple pictures that might help shed some light as to the location of the sunglasses.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SantDelt_WMA-8x6.jpg (382.7 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg W_DELTA_BUILDING.JPG (41.4 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Santee_DeltaWMA.JPG (90.0 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by mlatta; 05-02-2010 at 09:28 AM. Reason: mixed up my East and West :)
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by SeaNymph View Post
Seven Mile Road sticks in my memory too for some reason, but it could just be that I remember it from some mapping I did way back last spring.
Seven Mile Road contains a rather large cellular tower. This is the one I believe Brittanee's cell phone pinged last.
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by LLLindsayy View Post
I, too, feel like if she was put into the river that she will probably never be found
It seems very likely...
FWIW, alternatively, Consider these two things:
1) If I recall from the pictures and video, the river searches were focused on the river banks and around bridges. Without a boat, these would be the places one would dispose of a body.
2) You got to have $ to have a boat. Also, a small degree of skill.. Unless you have your own dock on your property, you would have to load the boat onto a trailer, drive to a boat landing, unload, park -- point is, it's time consuming with a fair amount of public exposure... Also, it would leave another spot for some trace evidence to be left...

Just some thoughts

Last edited by mlatta; 05-02-2010 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:00 AM
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Questions for locals...

In this area where the search was conducted, what's the depth of the water in this area?

Would these waters be navigable with a canoe, raft or john boat (with or without trolling motor)?
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:10 AM
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Questions for locals...

In this area where the search was conducted, what's the depth of the water in this area?

Would these waters be navigable with a canoe, raft or john boat (with or without trolling motor)?
I truly dont no,i for one dont hang in these areas,(bad and not safe) now Mlatta, may can answer this due hes been down there latey :-),,,now for pole yard landing,my brothers put in there boats sometime,but its getting so bad on landing (parking there trucks) they getting broke into so my brothers hasnt been any this year,,,to be honest that area is becoming a hot bed for stealing etc,with no jobs in Gtown area,the ones on drugs are desperate for money etc
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
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Questions for locals...

In this area where the search was conducted, what's the depth of the water in this area?

Would these waters be navigable with a canoe, raft or john boat (with or without trolling motor)?
The river itself could be navigated by all of the above... The river does get pretty deep in the center..

Also consider, the swamps!! Swamps are 6 inches in depth all the way up to 5 or more feet... The water is black (because tannic acid from decaying leaves on the forest floor darkens the water which drains into the river whenever it rains. ) There are also some Carolina Bays around this area... whether or not they contain water, I don't know.

Pole Yard Landing - This boat landing gets you into the deepwater part of the river fast... (I've seen pretty big boats put in from here)
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:28 AM
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In the context of warrants, the Oxford Companion to American Law defines probable cause as "information sufficient to warrant a prudent person's belief that the wanted individual had committed a crime (for an arrest warrant) or that evidence of a crime or contraband would be found in a search (for a search warrant)". "Probable cause" is a stronger standard of evidence than a reasonable suspicion, but weaker than what is required to secure a criminal conviction. Even hearsay can supply probable cause if it is from a reliable source or supported by other evidence, according to the Aguilar-Spinelli test.

PC could not have been better defined

In order to secure a conviction, there must be evidence presented that proves guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt". This goes much farther than PC.

This makes me wonder if LE already HAS enough PC to make the arrest, they're just waiting on more solid evidence before they proceed... This case is in the national public eye. They want to avoid making an arrest, and then being aquitted. I wonder if there are circumstances that amplify LE's scrutiny i.e. race of the POIs, and the possibility major racial tension...
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:01 AM
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One other thing to think about with regards to these possible areas/docks where BD could have been placed is the time of evening/night it supposedly occurred. It would have been pretty darn dark in those swampy areas and if this person/people had any sense they would have not wanted to have the headlights on to draw attention to what they were doing down in there. I shudder to think about those scary looking swamps. With BD being basically a "city gal" I sure hope she did not have to see this area if in fact she was placed down in there. It is just too horrible to think if she was awake/alert when she was brought down into any of those dock areas. I was reading on Morgan Harrington's threads last night and the same thought came to my mind. The place where her body was found and the area where BD was possibly taken would have been so desolate and dark, it seems only logical these perps would be locals, which I suppose has pretty much been stated by LE in BD's case, or at least the "persons of interest" are locals in her case.
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:04 AM
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[quote=SeaNymph;5137745]This may be a good source regarding the progressive searches. Looks like they have done a good job posting all news clips here:

http://www.helpfindbrittaneedrexel.c...s_Updates.html

Wow, Really helpful site!! Thanks, SeaNymph!!
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