UT - Ethan Stacy, 4, Layton, 10 May 2010 - #4

[essies]

Originally Posted by monkeymama

yvw. The insanity defense is actually very rarely used. I thought only Idaho didn't allow it, but I am so glad Utah doesn't either. I wonder if SS and NS thought they could get married, not testify against each other then claim they were insane. Don't think that's gonna work.

Thank you MM-that made my day-perhaps my entire week!!

[sleuthy sleutherson]

Originally Posted by Cubby

The judge never saw that info. what the judge saw and heard was the agreed upon divorce decree including custodial provisions. To villify a judge for something she had no knowledge of imo, is BS. I am so sick of people villifying this judge because they haven't reviewed all the facts in this case and are making presumptions.

JS's fear was NOT that Ethan would be abused, tortured and murdered. It is my opinion his fear was that Stephanie would not return him, thus she would be guilty of visitation interference, or parental kidnapping.

I challenge ANYONE to show me PROOF that JS had fears that NS and SS would beat, tortureand murder Ethan and he chose not to do a thing about it.

To think JS has prior knowledge of this is as likely as someone knocking themself upside the head thinking if they would have taken route B instead of route A they might not have been involved in an automobile accident. Place the blame where it belongs - on Stephanie and Nathan.

Sheesh!

JMO

Oh I fully place the blame on those two monsters. My point is in custody cases when a parent abandons their own child for 8 months they should not be allowed to just come and take him out of state. JS fully stated he feared he would never see his son again and SS was unstable and very CLEARLY this is what happened. No I don't think he had any idea they would hurt him, he obviously knew she was unstable and cared more about herself then her son which is why he filed the temporary order, he was hoping the legal system would help him and it failed him IMO! I don't know what the judge saw but in the temporary custody order filed by JS it clearly stated she had abandonded her own child and he was afraid she would run off with him and he would never see his son again. Maybe there wasn't enough proof to show this but in my EYES not seeing your own child for 8 months because you choose to is proof enough that your child does not come before you.

['Ailina]

http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/stor...JLLR8KdDA.cspx ABC 4 is taking a closer look at the relationship between Ethan's father and mother before they divorced. The story will air on ABC 4 May 15 at 5:00 p.m.

Originally Posted by sunflowerchick

BBM I think this date is wrong. This time is yesterday, before the article was updated last.

This confused me, too.

Do you think it's safe to assume the story will air tonight, May 16th, instead?

[Cubby]

Originally Posted by sleuthy sleutherson

Oh I fully place the blame on those two monsters. My point is in custody cases when a parent abandons their own child for 8 months they should not be allowed to just come and take him out of state. JS fully stated he feared he would never see his son again and SS was unstable and very CLEARLY this is what happened. No I don't think he had any idea they would hurt him, he obviously knew she was unstable and cared more about herself then her son which is why he filed the temporary order, he was hoping the legal system would help him and it failed him IMO! I don't know what the judge saw but in the temporary custody order filed by JS it clearly stated she had abandonded her own child and he was afraid she would run off with him and he would never see his son again. Maybe there wasn't enough proof to show this but in my EYES not seeing your own child for 8 months because you choose to is proof enough that your child does not come before you.

I understand, however child abandonment through family court is very hard to prove. SS could have claimed she was denied access to Ethan....and then it would have been her word against his.

Plus JS would have had to prove that SS was a danger to Ethan. We have no proof that he had any prior knowledge that Ethan would have been in danger in the care and custody of his mother. Courts need proof, not just claims. If courts worked on claims without proof it would be too easy for angry parents to alienate a parent and child based soley on their anger and animosity towards the other parent.

JMO

[sleuthy sleutherson]

Seriously, everytime I see that picture of Ethan and NS playing the video game I want to vomit and punch my computer monitor, it is disgusting and horrifying, and I hope that Ethan's dad never lays eyes on it, I can't even imagine the kind of pain it would cause him, it hurts me and disturbs me to look at it, I scroll through fast everytime I see it in a post.

[ella971]

Originally Posted by sleuthy sleutherson

Seriously, everytime I see that picture of Ethan and NS playing the video game I want to vomit and punch my computer monitor, it is disgusting and horrifying, and I hope that Ethan's dad never lays eyes on it, I can't even imagine the kind of pain it would cause him, it hurts me and disturbs me to look at it, I scroll through fast everytime I see it in a post.

It takes me back after being hit in the mouth and choked when I was little and the arm and blanket wrapped around him.They like to try and make up after they abuse you...until next time.

[Cubby]

Originally Posted by sleuthy sleutherson

Oh I fully place the blame on those two monsters. My point is in custody cases when a parent abandons their own child for 8 months they should not be allowed to just come and take him out of state. JS fully stated he feared he would never see his son again and SS was unstable and very CLEARLY this is what happened. No I don't think he had any idea they would hurt him, he obviously knew she was unstable and cared more about herself then her son which is why he filed the temporary order, he was hoping the legal system would help him and it failed him IMO! I don't know what the judge saw but in the temporary custody order filed by JS it clearly stated she had abandonded her own child and he was afraid she would run off with him and he would never see his son again. Maybe there wasn't enough proof to show this but in my EYES not seeing your own child for 8 months because you choose to is proof enough that your child does not come before you.

BBM. Here is the article where the judge states what she saw.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15079390

[essies]

Originally Posted by ella971

It takes me back after being hit in the mouth and choked when I was little and the arm and blanket wrapped around him.They like to try and make up after they abuse you...until next time.

I find that blanket very disturbing!! I think it was wrapped around him to restrain him from jumping off the couch (if he was even able to) or as a means of propping him up for SS's photo op!

[sleuthy sleutherson]

Originally Posted by Cubby

I understand, however child abandonment through family court is very hard to prove. SS could have claimed she was denied access to Ethan....and then it would have been her word against his.

Plus JS would have had to prove that SS was a danger to Ethan. We have no proof that he had any prior knowledge that Ethan would have been in danger in the care and custody of his mother. Courts need proof, not just claims. If courts worked on claims without proof it would be too easy for angry parents to alienate a parent and child based soley on their anger and animosity towards the other parent.

JMO

I know, I understand what you are saying and that those situations happen, I don't think he thought at all she was a danger to him, I think he knew she cared more about herself then Ethan and that is where his issues layed and mine as a parent myself. It is scary to think that a parent cares more about themselves then their child...she didn't seek medical attention for him or take him to the court house when they got married for fear THEY would be in trouble for his injuries. These two just make me sick and I just feel so much pain for JS right now.

[ella971]

Originally Posted by essies

I find that blanket very disturbing!! I think it was wrapped around him to restrain him from jumping off the couch (if he was even able to) or as a means of propping him up for SS's photo op!

Sad to write this but after being abused you have no energy and you are confused about the way they go from evil to love.The blanket was a way to make it look o.k. Still not sure why she took the picture.

[Jaxson]

Originally Posted by sleuthy sleutherson

Oh I fully place the blame on those two monsters. My point is in custody cases when a parent abandons their own child for 8 months they should not be allowed to just come and take him out of state. JS fully stated he feared he would never see his son again and SS was unstable and very CLEARLY this is what happened. No I don't think he had any idea they would hurt him, he obviously knew she was unstable and cared more about herself then her son which is why he filed the temporary order, he was hoping the legal system would help him and it failed him IMO! I don't know what the judge saw but in the temporary custody order filed by JS it clearly stated she had abandonded her own child and he was afraid she would run off with him and he would never see his son again. Maybe there wasn't enough proof to show this but in my EYES not seeing your own child for 8 months because you choose to is proof enough that your child does not come before you.

bbm I completely agree with this statement. She abandoned him for 8 months, voluntarily moved out of state (first Nevada and then Utah) and had no job when she moved, failed to make it as a police officer, became an exotic dancer/stripper? I am sure that Joe never envisioned what happened but he every right to be concerned about her stability. My step daughter was kidnapped by her mother and we had filed contempt charges 3 times for interference of visitation. Based on the laws here (wa) custody should have changed hands before she took off with her. The laws definitely favor the mother in most states and fathers get screwed a lot. Things are changing slowly but we don't get to see this child because she didn't take her out of state. (just as far as she could without leaving the state) Without crossing state lines it is left to state police but the county wouldn't even involve the state and by the time we could hire an attorney (again! we were paying both atty. for the divorce, and constantly paying to take her to court for the visitation violations) we were told we would first have to go to court to obtain visitation. Not only that they would do nothing to her even though she was required to notify us and the court that she was moving and what her reason's were.

[SusanB]

Hi everyone, First of all essies, your posts crack me up! Nice to have a little distraction in this absolutely horrifying case.
I wrote before that I believe both SS and NS were doing drugs the whole time poor little Ethan was there. Their behavior and lack of gainful employment indicates that to me, and methamphetamine users display violent, irrational, paranoid acts. He has a history as well.
At this point, I need more delineation of that date stamp on the picture - as we all know MANY times reporters erroneously date events or somehow the correct date is mis-printed, etc. To us, a correct date is critical for evaluating a situation, but it may not seem so to others, who are just looking at WHAT happened, not sleuthers who dissect every movement to evaluate a crime.
Even if the two were on drugs during the abuse, it will not help them in the least as far as defense is concerned. Neither will multiple personality disorder since Utah does not honor the insanity defense.
As a criminal justice professional as well as a nurse, I am against the death penalty for the reasons of the possibility of executing an innocent person (it happens!).
But - hey, Utah still has the firing squad as an option for capital punishment! HHmmmmm....My hardfast opinion is wavering!

[suzyq211]

Originally Posted by sleuthy sleutherson

Seriously, everytime I see that picture of Ethan and NS playing the video game I want to vomit and punch my computer monitor, it is disgusting and horrifying, and I hope that Ethan's dad never lays eyes on it, I can't even imagine the kind of pain it would cause him, it hurts me and disturbs me to look at it, I scroll through fast everytime I see it in a post.

Me too...Ethan just looks so tiny and vulnerable. I cant even think of a name to describe what kind of filth would hurt a baby like that. I just cant look at it anymore!

[monkeymama]

Originally Posted by SusanB

Hi everyone, First of all essies, your posts crack me up! Nice to have a little distraction in this absolutely horrifying case.
I wrote before that I believe both SS and NS were doing drugs the whole time poor little Ethan was there. Their behavior and lack of gainful employment indicates that to me, and methamphetamine users display violent, irrational, paranoid acts. He has a history as well.
At this point, I need more delineation of that date stamp on the picture - as we all know MANY times reporters erroneously date events or somehow the correct date is mis-printed, etc. To us, a correct date is critical for evaluating a situation, but it may not seem so to others, who are just looking at WHAT happened, not sleuthers who dissect every movement to evaluate a crime.
Even if the two were on drugs during the abuse, it will not help them in the least as far as defense is concerned. Neither will multiple personality disorder since Utah does not honor the insanity defense.
As a criminal justice professional as well as a nurse, I am against the death penalty for the reasons of the possibility of executing an innocent person (it happens!).
But - hey, Utah still has the firing squad as an option for capital punishment! HHmmmmm....My hardfast opinion is wavering!

bbm. Actually, I don't think Utah uses this anymore (unfortunately). "A law passed on March 15, 2004, banned execution by firing squad in Utah"

Wikipedia (Thumbnails)

Wikipedia (Thumbnails)
Wikipedia (Thumbnails)

and

"Utah no longer offers the firing squad as an option, but would allow it only for inmates who chose this method prior to its elimination"

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/methods-execution

[suzyq211]

Originally Posted by monkeymama

bbm. Actually, I don't think Utah uses this anymore (unfortunately). "A law passed on March 15, 2004, banned execution by firing squad in Utah"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_by_firing_squad

and

"Utah no longer offers the firing squad as an option, but would allow it only for inmates who chose this method prior to its elimination"

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/methods-execution

Eh!!!! The firing squad is too good for them!!!! Quick and humane??? i think not!! (In my dreams, I know!! :-( )

[ella971]

Originally Posted by suzyq211

Eh!!!! The firing squad is too good for them!!!! Quick and humane??? i think not!! (In my dreams, I know!! :-( )

Firing squad would not be good. Sitting in prison and have to think about every second that they had him would be better.

[suzyq211]

Originally Posted by ella971

Firing squad would not be good. Sitting in prison and have to think about every second that they had him would be better.

Along with the threat that they would be placed in GP any day...mmmmm, Im loving that thought!

[kbl8201]

i find it hard to believe that dear old mom just had a slip in the 11 days from getting visitiation rights to the day she let him die.......there had to be something that said 'red flag'. and she should have red flagged this herself, since according to her, she knew what a monster this guy was.

[RubyRed]

Originally Posted by 'Ailina

This confused me, too.

Do you think it's safe to assume the story will air tonight, May 16th, instead?

I have been trying to find something on line about it and haven't. Has anyone else.

[ella971]

Originally Posted by kbl8201

i find it hard to believe that dear old mom just had a slip in the 11 days from getting visitiation rights to the day she let him die.......there had to be something that said 'red flag'. and she should have red flagged this herself, since according to her, she knew what a monster this guy was.

Are you talking about Nathans Mom or S? TIA

[RubyRed]

Originally Posted by kbl8201

i find it hard to believe that dear old mom just had a slip in the 11 days from getting visitiation rights to the day she let him die.......there had to be something that said 'red flag'. and she should have red flagged this herself, since according to her, she knew what a monster this guy was.

Do you mean you think SS abused him before when she was caring for him?

[Cubby]

I'm getting ready to open thread # 5.... just letting everyone know a little in advance.

[sleuthy sleutherson]

Originally Posted by Cubby

BBM. Here is the article where the judge states what she saw.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15079390

Thanks for posting the link, I was going off a comment posted that he was forced to let Ethan go with her for the summer. It does mention he felt like he had to make the concession in order to maintain custody of his son for the majority of the year. I still wish it would have been supervised visits being that she hadn't seen him in 8 months, to me that just speaks volumes of her feelings and responsbility for her child. As a mother I could never imagine not seeing my 4 year old for that long, such a precious age, so much she missed out on in those 8 months and now his father has to miss out on the rest of his life.

I love all of the photos of Ethan and his dad, you can see the love in them. All I have seen of her pretty much is being loved up with NS, not her son.

[Cubby]

Part 5 has been opened. Please continue here:

Found Deceased UT - Ethan Stacy, 4, Layton, 10 May 2010 - #5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Found Deceased UT - Ethan Stacy, 4, Layton, 10 May 2010 - #5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community