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JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


View Poll Results: Would you tighten a noose around the neck of your child
Yes, but only to stay out of jail 1 1.19%
Yes. 0 0%
Yes, only if I knew she was already dead. 2 2.38%
Are you out of your mind? No way. 81 96.43%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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  #251  
Old 06-15-2010, 05:43 PM
WHITEFANG WHITEFANG is offline
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Someone made the point that by proving their innocence to the public, the R's would do themselves a favor. The cops wouldn't focus on them as the perps, as a result.

The argument objecting to that POV was offered. Very legitimate and important point, IMO. Why? The R's were cooked, no matter what they did or didn't do. This story, the whole shebang, was a money-making dream come true for the vultures who cared not a bit about truth, accuracy, confirming stories, authentic journalism. It was a cauldron of conjecture, cannibalism and conspiracy; a mad dash for filthy lucre.
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What you say is true. But that applies to what I said as well, in terms of lawyers.
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The reverse is also true: even if they were PROVED GUILTY, I'm sure there are people who would be convinced they were innocent. Neither point proves anything.
Examples?

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Well, in terms of criminals who have been convicted, yet still had lawyers who would go to the mat for them afterwards, we can count Mumia Abu-Jamal, Leonard Peltier, Dennis Dechaine, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, Sacco and Vanzetti, Jeffrey MacDonald...do I have to keep going?
I can hear Cheech and Chong, "Class! Class!! Class!!! What page are we on?"
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  #252  
Old 06-15-2010, 06:10 PM
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Odd?
Damn skippy! If YOU were really interested in using a GJ's power to the fullest, wouldn't you call the people with the most pertinent information?

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I can hear Cheech and Chong, "Class! Class!! Class!!! What page are we on?"
That's what I want to know! You keep asking for examples, but you never say OF WHAT.
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  #253  
Old 06-15-2010, 08:00 PM
WHITEFANG WHITEFANG is offline
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Damn skippy! If YOU were really interested in using a GJ's power to the fullest, wouldn't you call the people with the most pertinent information?

That's what I want to know! You keep asking for examples, but you never say OF WHAT.
And when the criminals ask for a chance to tell what they know, particularly criminals who always refused to cooperate with authorities, it is more than odd that they were refused. It is a tragedy, just like the "cooking" they received from the media. They never had a chance. They just couldn't do right, no matter what they did.

Every action, reaction, every word, every lack of a word, grunt, moan, every nod, lack of a nod or shake, an eyebrow not raised, a raised eyebrow, golf bag, golf tee, teabag, flashlight, fly swatter, inverted e, all of it was part of a master scheme to pull off this killing and staging.

Let's face it. Let's not be naive. These birdbrains who couldn't shoot straight, had incredible accuracy for novices in the crime game. Plus, they were incredible lucky, except when they weren't.

Nothing was left to chance, unless it would be to their long term advantage, considering how advanced computer projections were forecasting the likelihood of tendencies of a certain segment of the BPD minus several DAs, with a new governor, who was susceptible to certain types of bribes and free flying lessons. Don't forget, this explains why J was the president of a computer company; he anticipated this day would come and he wanted to be prepared.

It was a brilliant, 3D, complex chess match generated by supercomputers with everything falling into place as proof the R's did the deed.
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  #254  
Old 06-15-2010, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by WHITEFANG View Post
And when the criminals ask for a chance to tell what they know, particularly criminals who always refused to cooperate with authorities, it is more than odd that they were refused. It is a tragedy, just like the "cooking" they received from the media. They never had a chance. They just couldn't do right, no matter what they did.

Every action, reaction, every word, every lack of a word, grunt, moan, every nod, lack of a nod or shake, an eyebrow not raised, a raised eyebrow, golf bag, golf tee, teabag, flashlight, fly swatter, inverted e, all of it was part of a master scheme to pull off this killing and staging.

Let's face it. Let's not be naive. These birdbrains who couldn't shoot straight, had incredible accuracy for novices in the crime game. Plus, they were incredible lucky, except when they weren't.

Nothing was left to chance, unless it would be to their long term advantage, considering how advanced computer projections were forecasting the likelihood of tendencies of a certain segment of the BPD minus several DAs, with a new governor, who was susceptible to certain types of bribes and free flying lessons. Don't forget, this explains why J was the president of a computer company; he anticipated this day would come and he wanted to be prepared.

It was a brilliant, 3D, complex chess match generated by supercomputers with everything falling into place as proof the R's did the deed.
Could somebody translate this, please?
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  #255  
Old 06-15-2010, 10:54 PM
Tadpole12 Tadpole12 is offline
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  #256  
Old 06-15-2010, 11:15 PM
WHITEFANG WHITEFANG is offline
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Could somebody translate this, please?
Sure. They couldn't win.
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  #257  
Old 06-16-2010, 12:07 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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Sure. They couldn't win.
A prime example of circular logic. No matter what the R's did, it will be construed best-fit into whatever theory, so long as they did it. Complete with motives, ulterior motives, and everything.

It helps to understand what the facts are, what the fictions are, and how to tell them apart.
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  #258  
Old 06-16-2010, 01:11 AM
WHITEFANG WHITEFANG is offline
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down by Dun Ringill

A prime example of circular logic. No matter what the R's did, it will be construed best-fit into whatever theory, so long as they did it. Complete with motives, ulterior motives, and everything.

It helps to understand what the facts are, what the fictions are, and how to tell them apart.

YGB
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  #259  
Old 06-16-2010, 10:32 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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A good example is the spelling of advise in the ransom note, and 'advize' in both PR left and right exemplars. Nobody noticed for years. Then after it was brought up, 'oh she did that on purpose, wouldn't you if your arse depended on it? She did that to mislead investigators.'

Mislead what investigators with this? Who was misled by this? Who got fooled by this?

This is fiction pure and simple, created in a heartbeat (15 minutes, I think) to account for what is prima facie IDI evidence.

IOW they tested PR for similarities and differences, found differences, insisted the differences belonged to PR anyway, and created a fictional backdrop to account for it. It was a no-win scenario. Fortunately things are different now.

Last edited by Holdontoyourhat; 06-16-2010 at 10:49 AM.
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  #260  
Old 06-16-2010, 10:46 AM
WHITEFANG WHITEFANG is offline
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we'll wait in stone circles

The RCDNR team will never come out and say the Rs are the worst people of all time directly. Just the opposite. They will insist snarling all the way they never said that and they don't believe it.
Review your comments and review them again. Let's get honest.
The kid with his hand in the cookie jar comes to mind.
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  #261  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:19 PM
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Sure. They couldn't win.
Why didn't you just say that in the first place?
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  #262  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by WHITEFANG View Post
The RCDNR team will never come out and say the Rs are the worst people of all time directly. Just the opposite.
As soon as you find people like that, you let me know!

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They will insist snarling all the way they never said that and they don't believe it.
I assure you, Fang, that if we are snarling, maybe you should consider WHY.

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Review your comments and review them again. Let's get honest.
Are you SURE you want to do that? I'm reminded of the old saying, "be careful what you wish for; you might get it."

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The kid with his hand in the cookie jar comes to mind.
I have not yet begun to fight!
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  #263  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:47 PM
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In regards to original post.

1. any cover-up of the crime is going to involve doing something unpleasant to Jon Benet's body. whether it be burying the body in a ditch, faking a wound, removing her clothes, carrying her from one place to another...etc, etc. I really think at that moment the Ramsey's knew that whatever was going to be done was going to be unpleasant...but necessary.

2. There is another child's well being to consider. I have to imagine that while using the chord, Jon was thinking about Burke and what loosing both parents would do to him.

3. Never underestimate the survival instincts of human beings. You'll find that people are capable of doing several things when faced with survival. I'm sure that survival instincts kicked in and overturned any sqeamishness Jon had in using the cord.
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  #264  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:09 PM
WHITEFANG WHITEFANG is offline
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We'll wait in stone circles

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Originally Posted by Mastermind View Post
In regards to original post.

1. any cover-up of the crime is going to involve doing something unpleasant to Jon Benet's body. whether it be burying the body in a ditch, faking a wound, removing her clothes, carrying her from one place to another...etc, etc. I really think at that moment the Ramsey's knew that whatever was going to be done was going to be unpleasant...but necessary.

2. There is another child's well being to consider. I have to imagine that while using the chord, Jon was thinking about Burke and what loosing both parents would do to him.

3. Never underestimate the survival instincts of human beings. You'll find that people are capable of doing several things when faced with survival. I'm sure that survival instincts kicked in and overturned any sqeamishness Jon had in using the cord.
I'm not so sure. Never underestimate the power of imagination. In fact, I'm sure that didn't happen. While they were considering the well being of their other child, they sacrificed with their bare hands, their innocent and injured other child? Could you? Easy for uninvolved, distant, strangers with no idea what they experienced to proffer true accounts of speculated musings. What is truly astonishing is that any child survives childhood. And the number of people who could do what you conclude the R's did, out of 53 voting is zero, so far.

Did the Rs have cord fibers in their hands, clothes, anywhere? Any physical signs on either one of them of having just smashed in J's head? Broken finger nails, bruises, scrapes, rug burns, any thing at all? Any of her DNA on them?

Did they find the item used to wipe her down? Even though it took them countless times to fool the machine and they paid off a huckster to fake the testing, how did the pass a lie detector? Whoops, I should know better.

If you were guilty, could you pass? Whoops, forgot again! Self-hypnosis. Well, answer anyway, IYDM. I couldn't pass if the Amazing Kreskin took the test for me.

Whether I had just sacrificed my child or someone murdered her, I wouldn't function too well for a long time, if ever. Hypnosis or not.

And with the cops immediate reaction that I was guilty, i would find my anger boiling over towards them. Let me catch my breath for a few seconds before you blame me. And, whatever else you do, don't hunt for the real killer. Spend your resources targeting me, that feels right.

Last edited by WHITEFANG; 06-16-2010 at 04:27 PM.
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  #265  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:11 PM
WHITEFANG WHITEFANG is offline
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We'll wait in stone circles

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Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
As soon as you find people like that, you let me know!



I assure you, Fang, that if we are snarling, maybe you should consider WHY.



Are you SURE you want to do that? I'm reminded of the old saying, "be careful what you wish for; you might get it."



I have not yet begun to fight!
Good. I'm still waiting for your proof.
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  #266  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:20 PM
WHITEFANG WHITEFANG is offline
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`til the force comes through

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Mastermind;5298838]In regards to original post.

1. any cover-up of the crime is going to involve doing something unpleasant to Jon Benet's body.
They could have called the cops, like they did in when they found the note.
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  #267  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:32 PM
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Good. I'm still waiting for your proof.
If perhaps, you could be a tad more specific?
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  #268  
Old 06-16-2010, 05:28 PM
Roy23 Roy23 is offline
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"Would you pull a cord deeply into your daughter's neck, believing she might dead, to cover-up evidence you just killed your her, accidentally?"
As a father of a 2.5 year old son, absolutely not. Not in any circumstance. And I am a middle class guy with a somewhat professional job with not much history of committing crimes. If I had an accident of any kind, I would call police and admit what happened.

Now, imagine the Ramsey's, a high class family with a sterling reputation. If this would have been an accident, it would have gone away. And it is certain that they love their children as I do my own. Why would they need to stage?
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  #269  
Old 06-16-2010, 08:45 PM
WHITEFANG WHITEFANG is offline
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If perhaps, you could be a tad more specific?

Proof. Evidence J and P killed J.
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  #270  
Old 06-16-2010, 08:57 PM
WHITEFANG WHITEFANG is offline
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A concert of kings

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As a father of a 2.5 year old son, absolutely not. Not in any circumstance. And I am a middle class guy with a somewhat professional job with not much history of committing crimes. If I had an accident of any kind, I would call police and admit what happened.

Now, imagine the Ramsey's, a high class family with a sterling reputation. If this would have been an accident, it would have gone away. And it is certain that they love their children as I do my own. Why would they need to stage?
Good, practical stuff. Now, are you ready?
Prepare for an avalanche. It will overwhelm you with machinations beyond your wildest dreams, as to why you are a Big Boob. To believe as you do, well, we won't forget you; we'll try to dig you out. Promise.
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  #271  
Old 06-16-2010, 09:03 PM
WHITEFANG WHITEFANG is offline
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Originally Posted by Roy23 View Post
As a father of a 2.5 year old son, absolutely not. Not in any circumstance. And I am a middle class guy with a somewhat professional job with not much history of committing crimes. If I had an accident of any kind, I would call police and admit what happened.

Now, imagine the Ramsey's, a high class family with a sterling reputation. If this would have been an accident, it would have gone away. And it is certain that they love their children as I do my own. Why would they need to stage?
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Why didn't you just say that in the first place?

Free press
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  #272  
Old 06-16-2010, 09:46 PM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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...and equal time.
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  #273  
Old 06-16-2010, 10:22 PM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
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Did the Rs have cord fibers in their hands, clothes, anywhere? Any physical signs on either one of them of having just smashed in J's head? Broken finger nails, bruises, scrapes, rug burns, any thing at all? Any of her DNA on them?

Did they find the item used to wipe her down? Even though it took them countless times to fool the machine and they paid off a huckster to fake the testing, how did the pass a lie detector? Whoops, I should know better.

If you were guilty, could you pass? Whoops, forgot again! Self-hypnosis. Well, answer anyway, IYDM. I couldn't pass if the Amazing Kreskin took the test for me.

Whether I had just sacrificed my child or someone murdered her, I wouldn't function too well for a long time, if ever. Hypnosis or not.

And with the cops immediate reaction that I was guilty, i would find my anger boiling over towards them. Let me catch my breath for a few seconds before you blame me. And, whatever else you do, don't hunt for the real killer. Spend your resources targeting me, that feels right.
The parents were never tested for JB's DNA on them, as we all know. Bashing someone with an object (as in blunt force trauma) would not necessarily result in injuries to the hand of the person wielding the bludgeon.
IF their clothes had been taken into custody that night before the Rs were allowed to leave the house (as is standard procedure) we might have an answer to whether there were any cord fibers on them. It's a pretty important piece of evidence, too, and the chance to have that question answered was lost forever as soon as they were allowed to leave without turning over the clothing they had been wearing. Then it took over a year for the police to ask for them, and even longer to get them, at which point the police said that some of the items seemed new and some seemed recently laundered (as would be expected after a year).
The cloth used to wipe her down was never identified, though it could have been with little effort. The fibers found on her thighs was described as dark cotton, possibly dark blue. JR had a navy terry robe that was found in an odd place for a bathrobe- the study. They could have tested the robe, as well as the towels in the house whatever else they wished. But they never really got the idea that that house had to be SEALED. That means no one- no Aunt P, no one at all except LE goes in, and it remains that way until the possibility of needing further evidence is passed.
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  #274  
Old 06-17-2010, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by WHITEFANG View Post
Proof. Evidence J and P killed J.
I could have sworn I did that already.

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While they were considering the well being of their other child, they sacrificed with their bare hands, their innocent and injured other child?
Not that it's any of my business, but there is something to consider here. The issue is not "trading" one life for another. In the scenario, the Rs thought JB was already dead. Nothing could be done for her anymore. But their son had his whole life in front of him. You can't save the dead. Save the living.

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Even though it took them countless times to fool the machine and they paid off a huckster to fake the testing, how did the pass a lie detector? Whoops, I should know better.
I think you just answered your own question.

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If you were guilty, could you pass?
Yes, I believe I could.

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Prepare for an avalanche. It will overwhelm you with machinations beyond your wildest dreams, as to why you are a Big Boob.
Nah. Roy's a stand-up guy. He never dismisses an opposing point out-of-hand and he never plays the victim (AHEM).
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Last edited by SuperDave; 06-17-2010 at 12:31 AM.
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  #275  
Old 06-17-2010, 12:48 AM
WHITEFANG WHITEFANG is offline
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The innocence project

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I could have sworn I did that already.
SD, is what you shared with us all you've got? You intend to find a publisher for your manuscript. Do you address this question? Why did Pat send the actual jacket she wore the night of Joni's murder to the cops one year later? Is there any "official" theory by a professional writer or expert on this topic published anywhere?

Last edited by WHITEFANG; 06-17-2010 at 01:07 AM.
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