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JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


View Poll Results: Clever or Lucky
Rs were clever 2 4.55%
Rs were lucky 42 95.45%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 06-24-2010, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
I can't vote,If RDI,one was clever ,the other one was lucky.
ITA Madeleine.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:46 PM
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Well this is your thread. Why don't we just stick to one at a time.
Good idea.

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I'm still waiting for all the other reasons they were lucky that you reckoned would make a long list.

7. ??
Well, it seems fairly obvious, but "no witnesses" would be another.
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Old 06-27-2010, 03:47 PM
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8. Using a writing implement that distorts results.
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Old 06-27-2010, 06:09 PM
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well this is your thread. Why don't we just stick to one at a time.



I'm still waiting for all the other reasons they were lucky that you reckoned would make a long list.

7. ??
mf,
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  #30  
Old 06-27-2010, 07:54 PM
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8. Using a writing implement that distorts results.
7. No witnesses
8. Using a pen that distorted writing (sharpie)
9. ??
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  #31  
Old 06-27-2010, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
7. No witnesses
8. Using a pen that distorted writing (sharpie)
9. ??
9. The pediatrician not bothering to conduct a vaginal exam.
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  #32  
Old 06-27-2010, 10:23 PM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
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9. The pediatrician not bothering to conduct a vaginal exam.
Actually, it would be very unusual for a pediatrician to conduct an INTERNAL vaginal exam on a child. A sedative would almost always be required, if not a general anesthetic. A speculum would be needed, doubtful the average pediatrician would have one in the office, especially a child-sized one. On rare occasions where an internal exam is needed on a child, it would probably be done in a hospital or similar setting (because of the anesthetic and special equipment).
I am not bothered as much by his failure to conduct such an exam as I am bothered by his reporting no evidence of abuse WITHOUT doing one.
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  #33  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:16 PM
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Actually, it would be very unusual for a pediatrician to conduct an INTERNAL vaginal exam on a child. A sedative would almost always be required, if not a general anesthetic. A speculum would be needed, doubtful the average pediatrician would have one in the office, especially a child-sized one. On rare occasions where an internal exam is needed on a child, it would probably be done in a hospital or similar setting (because of the anesthetic and special equipment).
I am not bothered as much by his failure to conduct such an exam as I am bothered by his reporting no evidence of abuse WITHOUT doing one.
Thanks, DD. That's where I was going to end up. Either way, he appears to have shown poor judgment.
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  #34  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:26 PM
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10. The hardware store losing their sales records.
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  #35  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:39 PM
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Thanks, DD. That's where I was going to end up. Either way, he appears to have shown poor judgment.
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9. The pediatrician not bothering to conduct a vaginal exam.
Lovin it.
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  #36  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:40 PM
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10. The hardware store losing their sales records.
Evidence.
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:41 PM
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8. Using a writing implement that distorts results.
Criminal.
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  #38  
Old 06-28-2010, 01:33 AM
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It is called DUAL, SPONTANEOUS, INSTANTANEOUS DISSOCIATION. The first in recorded history. Fangster
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YOU said that, not me.
Whoops. Didn't you say that the R's discussed the death of their daughter with flat affect due to dissociation?
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  #39  
Old 06-28-2010, 02:01 AM
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Whoops. Didn't you say that the R's discussed the death of their daughter with flat affect due to dissociation?
I said that it was a possibility. You took that ball and ran with it.
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  #40  
Old 06-28-2010, 02:40 AM
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Question
How much does wearing gloves alter your handwriting?
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  #41  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:39 AM
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I said that it was a possibility. You took that ball and ran with it.
Guess again.
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  #42  
Old 06-28-2010, 07:57 AM
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9. The pediatrician not bothering to conduct a vaginal exam.
So far 100% reckon they're just lucky, no one has voted for clever. Let's see, can we make a list of their luck in order of importance? I'll start....

1. Incompetent Cops
2. Corrupt DA
3. Stupid Coroner
4. Superhero Attorney(s)
5. Useless Experts
6. Suspect Collusion (lucky or clever??)
7. No witnesses
8. Using a pen that distorted writing (sharpie) (lucky or clever??)
9. The pediatrician not bothering to conduct a vaginal exam
10.The hardware store losing their sales records.


Ok, this is going real good. Looking forward to the next instalment.
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  #43  
Old 06-28-2010, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
Question
How much does wearing gloves alter your handwriting?
Depending on what kind of gloves they are, anywhere from a little to a lot. (I tried that particular experiment.)
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  #44  
Old 06-28-2010, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
8. Using a pen that distorted writing (sharpie) (lucky or clever??)
If RDI,stupid,for writing it in the first place.And I repeat myself,the R's weren't stupid people.So they staged the scene,the crime,got rid of all the incriminating evidence,panties,tape,cord,but wrote a 3 pg RN and left the pad&pen AND evidence of a practice note right there.Something's not right with this scenario.
If IDI,clever.
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  #45  
Old 06-28-2010, 01:35 PM
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Depending on what kind of gloves they are, anywhere from a little to a lot. (I tried that particular experiment.)
If RDI,PR wore gloves right cause there are no prints on the RN (only on the pad and it's normal for her prints to be there).
And if she wore gloves that must have altered her handwriting.Doesn't this mean that the handwriting "sample" is "contaminated" now and all analysis in the world won't be able to tell us the truth?
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  #46  
Old 06-28-2010, 02:38 PM
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If RDI,stupid,for writing it in the first place.And I repeat myself,the R's weren't stupid people.
I agree they weren't, but this "stupid to write it" argument is an old one, and it just doesn't do it for me. They created a crime, so they needed a criminal to go with it. The RN does that. Obviously, it's not very clever, but that's why I started this poll in the first place.

Unless, as you seem to have suggested earlier (and correct me if I'm wrong), one of them was smarter than the other and was setting them up for a fall.

Quote:
So they staged the scene,the crime,got rid of all the incriminating evidence,panties,tape,cord,but wrote a 3 pg RN and left the pad&pen AND evidence of a practice note right there.
Something like that.

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Something's not right with this scenario.
Something's not right with every scenario, Maddy. But you knew that.

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If RDI,PR wore gloves right cause there are no prints on the RN (only on the pad and it's normal for her prints to be there).
And if she wore gloves that must have altered her handwriting.Doesn't this mean that the handwriting "sample" is "contaminated" now and all analysis in the world won't be able to tell us the truth?
That's a very sobering thought, maddy. You may very well be right.
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  #47  
Old 06-28-2010, 03:15 PM
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Suppose for a moment that you believe one of the R's killed JB (you don't have to really believe it, just try to think as if you did). Her body is in the basement, there are no signs of a break-in and you know there is no evidence of an intruder in the house. Without that ransom note there is no way you can call the police (or anyone else). There will be no doubt that someone in the home that night killed her. It would only take a little while for the police (no matter how inept they were) to dedeuce who killed her. One of the Ramseys would have ratted out the other. You may think they weren't very clever but the rn saved someone's neck. In hindsight, that rn is the smartest thing they could have done. Now pretend that you believe an intruder did it. Why in the world did he leave a ransom note? He had to know there would be no money coming since she was dead in the home and why in the world would he risk evidence of his being there after being soooo careful to not leave any other evidence? It makes no sense.
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  #48  
Old 06-28-2010, 08:50 PM
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I have to say that I have looked at that RN many, many times. And I am not going to say this because I am RDI but rather I am RDI because of this, but the handwriting comparisons I have seen, to me, match Patsy's without a doubt. I have a feeling the DA's office thought it did, too. I am thinking of Assistant DA Pete Hofstrom making this comment: " So what if she wrote the note- it doesn't mean she killed her kid." He was right- it doesn't. But it means she knows who killed her kid.
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  #49  
Old 06-29-2010, 02:52 AM
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Suppose for a moment that you believe one of the R's killed JB (you don't have to really believe it, just try to think as if you did). Her body is in the basement, there are no signs of a break-in and you know there is no evidence of an intruder in the house. Without that ransom note there is no way you can call the police (or anyone else). There will be no doubt that someone in the home that night killed her. It would only take a little while for the police (no matter how inept they were) to dedeuce who killed her. One of the Ramseys would have ratted out the other. You may think they weren't very clever but the rn saved someone's neck. In hindsight, that rn is the smartest thing they could have done. Now pretend that you believe an intruder did it. Why in the world did he leave a ransom note? He had to know there would be no money coming since she was dead in the home and why in the world would he risk evidence of his being there after being soooo careful to not leave any other evidence? It makes no sense.
It would have been smarter to break a window or mess with a door,make some money "dissapear",etc.The RN (if they were stupid enough to write it,which I don't believe anymore) leads right back to them.
Better,dispose of the body,they had money,connections,a plane,why risk so much.
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:51 AM
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Suppose for a moment that you believe one of the R's killed JB (you don't have to really believe it, just try to think as if you did). Her body is in the basement, there are no signs of a break-in and you know there is no evidence of an intruder in the house. Without that ransom note there is no way you can call the police (or anyone else). There will be no doubt that someone in the home that night killed her. It would only take a little while for the police (no matter how inept they were) to dedeuce who killed her. One of the Ramseys would have ratted out the other. You may think they weren't very clever but the rn saved someone's neck. In hindsight, that rn is the smartest thing they could have done.
Ok, well I can try this. Now I've just killed my daughter, whom I loved, but I could not tolerate her bed wetting. Urine just made me so mad I threw or pushed her so hard that she had her head bashed in. I didn't mean to do it, but honestly, she was just so intolerably incontinent! I therefore decided that rather than call for help I really needed to do something to cover up for my mistake in smashing her skull. So, I took her to the basement and lay her on the floor near the door to the winecellar. I then looked around for something to kill her with. So, I found some cord stored down there and cut off a length. Oh, that's right, I had to go back upstairs and find that Swiss Army knife that LHP had taken off Burke (now where did she say she put it?) oh yes, in the closet. Back down to the basement, cut off a length of cord and put it around my daughter's neck. Pull it tight, that should do it. Oh dear, that hurts my hands, so I'd better find something to tie it around. Well, that's lucky, here's my paint tote and I'll just use this old paintbrush, first break off the brush then the pointy end. Oh gosh how about first I shove this broken end up her vagina, to make it look like a sexual pervert did this, I'm brilliant. Now, to wrap it around the paintbrush/stick, and pull as tightly as I can. Ok, well that's done, she seems to be dead at last. Now, I'd better get a blanket from the dryer to wrap her in. What else? Oh yes, some tape for her mouth would look good. Where is that tape now? Upstairs to find the tape in the drawer. Oooops that was lucky, nearly tore it off with my fingers, better find some gloves, so I don't leave any prints on the tape. Where are those pesky gloves. Oh here they are. Now just tear a little bit off, don't need much, afterall she's already dead so she isn't going to try to get it off is she? Oh, this is looking really like some intruder broke in and killed her. What else would someone like this do? Oh yes, tie up her hands. Just to cut a bit more cord off and do a tie of her hands. Oh bugger, they're above her head and a bit stiff. No matter, I'll just put it on anyway, no one will notice.

I can't really leave her here, someone might see her. I'll just take her into the winecellar and leave her in the dark, it might be days before she's found. Ooops, lucky I'm really thinking. Best go and get some different shoes on before I go in there, because there's all this mould/dust stuff on the floor and I don't want to leave my own footprints in it. Back upstairs to find a pair of sneakers just like an intruder would wear. Boy, all this up and down stairs should lose me some weight and keep me looking young and beautiful! Ok, well she's safely in the winecellar. What else can I do to make this whole thing look genuine? I know, a suitcase under an open window will make it look as if someone escaped through there - I'm just so clever! Ok, well I think I'm all done here. I'll just go upstairs and write a two and a half page ransom note in order to explain all this and no one will be any the wiser about what I did tonight.

Quote:
Now pretend that you believe an intruder did it. Why in the world did he leave a ransom note? He had to know there would be no money coming since she was dead in the home and why in the world would he risk evidence of his being there after being soooo careful to not leave any other evidence? It makes no sense.
This is such fun Beck.

Ok now I'm an intruder who did this. Here's what I'm thinking.

I need money. They have money. They take no care at all with the amount they spend, it means nothing to them. Do you know he got $118,000 bonus last year?? That's a BONUS, not his salary - what must that be? It's obscene!! I'd really like to get my hands on some of this wasted cash. You know, if you could figure out a way to get him to hand just some of this over, without being caught, (I don't want millions, even his annual bonus would be good) I reckon it would serve them right. Rude children, untidy parents, don't teach their children manners, parade them in pageants like baby prostitutes, treat people like they are beneath them. Yeah, I'd really enjoy that. You know, if they THOUGHT someone had kidnapped their precious little JonBenet (what kind of name is that?), I reckon they'd hand over cash without even asking questions, provided it wasn't too much money. What you could do is get into the house one night while the family is asleep, no you won't wake the parents, cause they sleep on a different floor to the kids, and get JBR out of bed (tell her Santa wants to talk to her or something like that- she's a real believer in Santa), you could get her to come downstairs. You might need to feed her something that would put her to sleep for a while, not hurt her mind, just make her sleep for 12 hours or so. Then take her to the basement and tie her up (not too tight, we don't want to cut of the circulation), but if you just put some cord on her hands, wrapped over her jammies and then get a blanket and wrap her up and put some cord or tape around that, she'd be warm and secure. A bit of tape over her mouth in case she wakes up and screams and she'd be sweet. Then get someone to mind her and keep her quiet downstairs (under the house somewhere there's heaps of space under there) until mid-morning. By then, the parents would be frantic, they'd have got the money and we'll arrange somewhere to pick it up. Then we call them and let them know where JBR is (under the house) and they are so grateful, they probably won't even tell the Cops. Now we have to write a RN and make it so scarey that they won't call the cops and spoil the whole plan. We have to think up all the threats from all the movies we've ever seen where tough guys threaten people. Make it sound like we are terrorists, that'll confuse them. Now, I'll have to get someone else to write this, just in case they get suspicious or call the cops in after. Wouldn't it be funny if it was written in handwriting just like PR's. Ha ha ha, what a joke. Now I also need someone to mind JBR. Who though? Don't want someone who is smart enough to want an equal share - just a few thousand or even less if we can swing it. Yep, I know someone, he's not too bright, but can do simple jobs and if he gets caught, well, I'd just say it was nothing to do with me, he must have got the idea from hearing me talk about my 'favourite employers' LOL. It's a simple job just to keep a six year old quiet for a few hours, surely even he can do that? Meanwhile, I'll be home in bed asleep, totally unaware of any of this. Yep, this is a simple but very clever plan. Get ready to be seriously rich. What I could do with $118,000 - I wouldn't waste it like the Rs. No sir.
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