Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #12

[Salem]

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Originally Posted by panthera

Good evening all!

New thread

Link to thread #7 Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #7 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Link to thread #8 Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #8 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Please remember the TOS rules.

Lots of off topic posts in the last thread. Please try to stay on track.

Also - link your post to the case (show the connection) or don't hit the post button.

Thanks

ETA: Ground Rules

Keep the discussion relevant to Stephany's murder. Treat Stephany's family with respect - they are victims also.

No name calling!

No discussion of Natalie or JonBenet or their families. There must be a clear connection between Stephany's murder and the cases of the other two girls, publicized in the mainstream media, before any discussion will be allowed.

The information regarding JVDS's dog and the homeless man MUST either be substantiated or dropped. At this point it appears this info is based on rumor/speculation. Show where the info comes from or drop it.

No disparaging remarks about JVDS's mother. You may discuss what has been printed, her quotes in the media, etc. You may NOT bash her. She too is a victim of her son's behavior.

As always - TOS applies. If you are having trouble, check the TOS forum. You will find a lot of info on threadequitte, dealing with other posters and the rules, long and short versions.

If you have questions - ask a mod before posting.

Thanks for your cooperation! And thank you for caring about Stephany.

Salem

[krowdkat]

Bringing this over from the last thread.

Unreals, I would totally agree with you if we were only talking about the USA and as a melting pot society many different people from different countries settling here and English is the common law language.

However, Joran speaks more languages than most natural born US citizens. And Peru doesn't give a carp if he lies or not. He won't EVER be charged with lying, which seemingly he can't tell if he's doing or not.

Peru is going to place in evidence the videos and dna and let the tribunal decide. That's their system and who am I to change it. It almost seems more human and functional than the USA system.

The prisons don't seem to be all that great/humane, though.

I'd really like to see statistics on prisoners who were wrongfully convicted in Peru. That would be of high interest to me.

[Unreals]

Krowdkat,

I understand what you're saying. I'd like to see those statistics, too.

Btw, I don't contest the fact that Joran appears to be a habitual liar. That makes it even harder to defend him. But, if it can be demonstrated that the authorities really did trick him into signing a "confession" written by them, then I think that's despicable.

More importantly, in such a scenario, the authorities would run the risk of Joran perhaps getting a lighter sentence, if the reports about confessions in Peru working that way are accurate. But, such a bogus "confession" does tie in nicely with that tiny percentage of us that suspect Joran was being framed.

[Cottages]

Originally Posted by krowdkat

Quite frankly, what I have learned through all my research is that drug/alcohol abuse during the teenage brain rewiring for adult thinking years, stunts brain development and causes immaturity in young adults. It is a physiological fact and ruinness to many young lives, families, and detrimental to society as a whole.

There is no "rewiring." Continued wiring, yes; but there is no such thing as un-connecting and then reconnecting neural connection after development. However, harnessing (but not *creating*, as in creating empathy [at this time]) thoughts, feelings, mood & behavior is possible with cognitive-behavior therapy (and sub-types of CBT, but NOT talk therapy) and medication (preferably simultaneously).

Misinformation is at the core of the problem. Early psychological damage (long before the teenage years, which is why some teens drink & drug) *cannot* be undone or simply rewired. Brain development does not work that way. Think of brain development as linear (it's not exactly linear, but close enough). Brain centers "close off" to new wiring as development goes along (known as windows of opportunity).

Emotional maturity or immaturity, as noted in Joran's psych profile is a disposition (indicated by postponing gratification, responding rather than reacting, etc.) that develops at a very young age, long before a person becomes teen or an adult.

So from the third trimester until the kid is 9 years old, love him/her up 24/7. After that, you can ignore your kid, drop him off at the nearest orphanage, become a crack head, raging alcoholic, spend all night in front of T.V, whatever. Your kid will think YOU'RE stupid and be ashamed of you. Do these things when he's 2 or 3 years of age, and he'll think HE'S stupid and feel ashamed of himself.

At some point, meds may be able to *counter* the wiring and help with empathy issues, but there will likely never be an ability to rewire. For example, oxytocin (known as the cuddle hormone, which not coincidently induces labor because nature wants you to bond with your new baby) can make one feel "more" loving (also lowers circulating cortisol). It is doubtful (but possible) that it could make a ASPD person non-dangerous, but it may help (studies ongoing). Oxytocin increase may account for some of SSRI's action. Yes, SSRI's are helpful to ASPD's, but they're are not a cure (i.e., can dampen hostility, but not remove hostility).

[FLNY]

According to this report, there was a translator from the Dutch embassy with him when VDS gave his confession:

"Van der Sloot ... gave his confession in Dutch, which was translated into Spanish by a translator from the Dutch Embassy."

I'm sure the Dutch translator was also available to translate the confession document, written in Spanish, into Dutch for Joran before he signed it...so much for the 'I didn't understand' excuse IMO.

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime...losing-control

[Cottages]

Originally Posted by Unreals

But, such a bogus "confession" does tie in nicely with that tiny percentage of us that suspect Joran was being framed.

I don't understand...not even Joran says he was framed. Do you know something he doesn't? His own mother knows he did it. Is it your belief that Joran & Mom are in trances? Spells? Is there some voodoo at the heart of this or puppetry perhaps? Are aliens involved?

[krowdkat]

Originally Posted by Unreals

Krowdkat,

I understand what you're saying. I'd like to see those statistics, too.

Btw, I don't contest the fact that Joran appears to be a habitual liar. That makes it even harder to defend him. But, if it can be demonstrated that the authorities really did trick him into signing a "confession" written by them, then I think that's despicable.

More importantly, in such a scenario, the authorities would run the risk of Joran perhaps getting a lighter sentence, if the reports about confessions in Peru working that way are accurate. But, such a bogus "confession" does tie in nicely with that tiny percentage of us that suspect Joran was being framed.

I do understand what you are saying, Unreals. I also respect your stance from the standpoint that I will always feel that people have a right to a fair trial. Guilty or innocent.

I guess I'm just mezmorized (having just gone through a misdemeanor trial here in the USA) that Peru really wants to know the truth and it really isn't about who can pay for the high priced laywer for acquittal. Totally different story in Peru. I was convicted of tresspasing on a neighor's forclosed property when the property owner gave me permission to be there. That evidence wasn't admissible in our US courts. LOL

From all the different reporting, it's more about who can pay an inmate to off another inmate. Which I'm totally mortified about. In other words, your sentence should be your sentence and really not up to another inmate to impose your death. Shameful in my opinion.

I am fascinated to learn about other legal systems, though. And, I must also say reading differing opinions here at WS. So, thank you!

Goodnight, all!

[krowdkat]

Cottages, it is my understanding from reading numerous medical journals on the topic that rewiring is about certain childhood brain electrodes/wires shut down while other adult wires are being developed. Retapping, so to speak. Brain cells die and a daily bases, but other cells are regenerating. I'll have to find the specific research for you and post it later. It's sorta of like regeneration. If alcohol and drugs are present, the body heals more slowly. I'll see if I can find the article for you, tomorrow.

Thanks for your comment!

[justus4all]

Hi! I have not been on here for a few days and am trying to catch up on the latest from Peru...So he went today before an "impartial judge" and is now saying his rights were violated (or something)..he signed and didn't read anything he was too panic ed, the police tricked him, and on and on...IMO, they do not need his confession, the forenics are overwhelming, the evidence is HIM, and everything else is going to nail him to the wall...
He is just trying to "wiggle" "slime" "ooze" "slither" "weasel" his way out like he has successfully done in the past...That/those are his methods for denying his involvement.
IMO, his mother is done with him, Aruba is done with him, and in a very short while.. Peru will be done with him.Oh! and for the rat in his toilet hole/cell...IMO, ONCE the rat discovers WHOSE toilet hole/cell he is visiting at night, the rat will be done with him..I believe even a rat in the Castro Castro prison walls, has some standards..(lol)..
Like someone on here posted..Stick a fork in him..he is done..He is toast..

[Mrs G Norris]

Originally Posted by justus4all

Hi! I have not been on here for a few days and am trying to catch up on the latest from Peru...So he went today before an "impartial judge" and is now saying his rights were violated (or something)..he signed and didn't read anything he was too panic ed, the police tricked him, and on and on...IMO, they do not need his confession, the forenics are overwhelming, the evidence is HIM, and everything else is going to nail him to the wall...
He is just trying to "wiggle" "slime" "ooze" "slither" "weasel" his way out like he has successfully done in the past...That/those are his methods for denying his involvement.
IMO, his mother is done with him, Aruba is done with him, and in a very short while.. Peru will be done with him.Oh! and for the rat in his toilet hole/cell...IMO, ONCE the rat discovers WHOSE toilet hole/cell he is visiting at night, the rat will be done with him..I believe even a rat in the Castro Castro prison walls, has some standards..(lol)..
Like someone on here posted..Stick a fork in him..he is done..He is toast..

I agree, I think they only question left is how long he'll manage to survive for? I was considering opening a 'book' and make it interesting (in honour of his gambling past of course) but I'm pretty sure that would be breaking forum rules.

[Unreals]

Originally Posted by Cottages

I don't understand...not even Joran says he was framed. Do you know something he doesn't? His own mother knows he did it. Is it your belief that Joran & Mom are in trances? Spells? Is there some voodoo at the heart of this or puppetry perhaps? Are aliens involved?

Actually, I believe Joran did say he was framed. At least that was one of the leads on the ABC story about it this morning. His mother has never said that she knows, or even thinks, he did it. She has, very rationally in my view, only stated that IF he did it, then she can't stand by him and he must pay the price like anyone else.

Anita, imho, is shellshocked at this point. It's been reported that she went into a deep depression after her husband's sudden death back in February, and probably hasn't totally emerged from it. Now she's dealing with the unanticipated trauma of Joran being charged with murder in another country. With all that she's been through in the past few months, I suspect that she simply doesn't know what to do or say.

[rotterdam]

Wow, the plot thickens.

http://translate.google.com/translat...px&sl=nl&tl=en

Click on first article from telegraaf

[Kat]

Originally Posted by Mrs G Norris

I agree, I think they only question left is how long he'll manage to survive for? I was considering opening a 'book' and make it interesting (in honour of his gambling past of course) but I'm pretty sure that would be breaking forum rules.

Jumping off your post Mrs. G, not directing it at you

I, personally, hope that JVDS gets a fair trial. I want him to have a fair and unbiased trial and whatever the outcome of that trial I will accept.

I also want him to have a fair trial in the US when he is extradited to face the charges that have been brought against him.

If Aruba should ever bring charges (and I'm not holding my breath on that one) I want him to have a fair trial.

I do not want to see him killed within prison if he is convicted in the Peruvian trial. I really don't because I want to see him face all charges that have thus far been brought against him and any future charges that might be forthcoming.

JMHO.

[justus4all]

Originally Posted by Mrs G Norris

I agree, I think they only question left is how long he'll manage to survive for? I was considering opening a 'book' and make it interesting (in honour of his gambling past of course) but I'm pretty sure that would be breaking forum rules.

I would guess he will not last long..I have read that the prisoners would love to kill him...FOR....in honor of their country, for taking the life of a young innocent girl and in honor of the family, or for their own reasons...

They would probably make a game/sport of it, since he is such a CELEBRITY and known for murdering young women..all in my own opinion..

Or...just quietly killing him...It's hard to say...

Even if he is not killed by human hands, there are the horrible prison conditions ...that we can only imagine in our nightmares...

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by rotterdam

Wow, the plot thickens.

http://translate.google.com/translat...px&sl=nl&tl=en

Click on first article from telegraaf

That translation doesn't make any sense. Total lack of security cameras? Hello?
We know that security cameras were there and working.

[FLNY]

Originally Posted by rotterdam

Wow, the plot thickens.

http://translate.google.com/translat...px&sl=nl&tl=en

Click on first article from telegraaf

I just found that article too. Wow, VDS is really trying every angle here...even throwing his 'friend' Elton Garcia under the bus. This is unbelievable....problem is some people will believe it...or at least VDS hopes someone will! Just when you think this case couldn't get any more confusing!!!

[Unreals]

Originally Posted by rotterdam

Wow, the plot thickens.

http://translate.google.com/translat...px&sl=nl&tl=en

Click on first article from telegraaf

Thanks for this. Not sure what to make of it exactly- the translation leaves a lot to be desired- but certainly provides food for thought.

I have wondered about the security camera set up at the hotel- was the one outside Joran's room the only one on that floor? Did all floors have the same same set up?

As you said, this just keeps getting more interesting.

[FLNY]

Originally Posted by jjenny

That translation doesn't make any sense. Total lack of security cameras? Hello?
We know that security cameras were there and working.

I think it's saying there weren't cameras near other rooms, only his, and that the Peruvian LE and the FBI were using his for surveillance of him! IMO

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by Unreals

Actually, I believe Joran did say he was framed. At least that was one of the leads on the ABC story about it this morning. His mother has never said that she knows, or even thinks, he did it. She has, very rationally in my view, only stated that IF he did it, then she can't stand by him and he must pay the price like anyone else.

Anita, imho, is shellshocked at this point. It's been reported that she went into a deep depression after her husband's sudden death back in February, and probably hasn't totally emerged from it. Now she's dealing with the unanticipated trauma of Joran being charged with murder in another country. With all that she's been through in the past few months, I suspect that she simply doesn't know what to do or say.

Framed? LOL. If somebody was going to "frame" Joran by killing a young woman, wouldn't it be easier to just kill Joran and get rid of the body?
I don't think many would cry if Joran went up missing.

[FLNY]

Yes, I believe there are cameras throughout the hotel.

I recall an article reported here some time ago stated that there was a whole bank of video screens behind the front desk of the hotel. They were wondering why VDS didn't realize he was being taped, unless he thought the cameras were not actually filming, but only showing the current status at each camera position.

MOO

[karma-girl]

Originally Posted by jjenny

That translation doesn't make any sense. Total lack of security cameras? Hello?
We know that security cameras were there and working.

I took it to mean they were only placed there temporarily...??? Which in my opinion would make sense, since I found it extremely odd that they were placed directly above HIS room...what are the chances of that happening! (Lol, I am going to bed...been moving all week!) After this latest catastrophe with the Gulf, I no longer trust media nor government and associated agencies!!! And yes, I may be wearing my tin-foil hat to bed!

[rotterdam]

Originally Posted by jjenny

That translation doesn't make any sense. Total lack of security cameras? Hello?
We know that security cameras were there and working.

Confusing translation again.
snipped in Dutch.
In het hotel waar het meisje werd gevonden, blijken bijvoorbeeld in het geheel geen bewakingscamera's te hangen die gericht waren op kamer 309.

De camera's hebben er niet standaard gehangen en zijn in elk geval verwijderd, zo bleek gisteren bij een bezoek aan het Hotel Tac in Lima.

translation.; In the hotel where the girl was found, for example, there are no security cameras pointing at room 309.

The cameras normally apparently do not hang there and in any case have been removed, as evident yesterday on a visit to Hotel Tac.

[Mrs G Norris]

Originally Posted by Kat

Jumping off your post Mrs. G, not directing it at you

I, personally, hope that JVDS gets a fair trial. I want him to have a fair and unbiased trial and whatever the outcome of that trial I will accept.

I also want him to have a fair trial in the US when he is extradited to face the charges that have been brought against him.

If Aruba should ever bring charges (and I'm not holding my breath on that one) I want him to have a fair trial.

I do not want to see him killed within prison if he is convicted in the Peruvian trial. I really don't because I want to see him face all charges that have thus far been brought against him and any future charges that might be forthcoming.

JMHO.

Hey I totally agree, I would love to see that too...I just have a feeling it's not going to happen.

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by FLNY

Yes, I believe there are cameras throughout the hotel.

I recall an article reported here some time ago stated that there was a whole bank of video screens behind the front desk of the hotel. They were wondering why VDS didn't realize he was being taped, unless he thought the cameras were not actually filming, but only showing the current status at each camera position.

I think it's rather obvious at some point he did realize he was being taped.

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by rotterdam

Confusing translation again.
snipped in Dutch.
In het hotel waar het meisje werd gevonden, blijken bijvoorbeeld in het geheel geen bewakingscamera's te hangen die gericht waren op kamer 309.

De camera's hebben er niet standaard gehangen en zijn in elk geval verwijderd, zo bleek gisteren bij een bezoek aan het Hotel Tac in Lima.

translation.; In the hotel where the girl was found, for example, there are no security cameras pointing at room 309.

The cameras normally apparently do not hang there and in any case have been removed, as evident yesterday on a visit to Hotel Tac.

But we know there were security cameras pointing at Joran's room. So it's still does not make sense.
If they were removed, it might be the part of the investigation.