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  #101  
Old 06-25-2010, 09:44 PM
justus4all justus4all is offline
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IMO....IF he did kill her in the first half hour they went to his room, I was puzzled by the length of time he spent there before he left...and I am thinking...after he killed her...instead of fleeing right then...he HAD to create a scene..(otherwise he was the last one seen with her and would be the first one suspected)..So he took off her shoes and pants...went for coffee, appeared "locked out" ..got a "witness" to unlock his door..BUT the "witness" staff..did NOT enter the room...DARN!!! well, so much for that plan, he thinks..So he cleans up as much as he can, while perhaps thinking of another plan..nothing else come to mind so he flees..telling the staff on the way out not to disturb his guest...buying time that the staff would not enter his room and she is ..sorry..decomposing..all the while.......all in my own opinion
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  #102  
Old 06-25-2010, 09:45 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Originally Posted by jilly View Post
I think the only thing we've heard is Black Jeep. It could have been Jeep's sports utility vehicle.

http://www.***********.com/2010/06/j...rning-graphic/
*********** stated it was a Jeep....this report has more in it than NG has reported all week long..............LOL
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  #103  
Old 06-25-2010, 09:49 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Originally Posted by justus4all View Post
IMO....IF he did kill her in the first half hour they went to his room, I was puzzled by the length of time he spent there before he left...and I am thinking...after he killed her...instead of fleeing right then...he HAD to create a scene..(otherwise he was the last one seen with her and would be the first one suspected)..So he took off her shoes and pants...went for coffee, appeared "locked out" ..got a "witness" to unlock his door..BUT the "witness" staff..did NOT enter the room...DARN!!! well, so much for that plan, he thinks..So he cleans up as much as he can, while perhaps thinking of another plan..nothing else come to mind so he flees..telling the staff on the way out not to disturb his guest...buying time that the staff would not enter his room and she is ..sorry..decomposing..all the while.......all in my own opinion
Yeah, but prior to him going for coffee....he must've taken a shower and changed his clothes.....did his pretend to be locked out trick and got the clerk to open the door for him.....so I think everything he had to do was already done...like the clean up detail.....that's when he high tailed it out of dodge........

In the Caylee Daily report the picture shows her under the window ....anyone notice that?
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  #104  
Old 06-25-2010, 09:50 PM
epiphany epiphany is offline
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Spot of blood on his red striped shirt (that he was wearing when he left for good) had already been confirmed as Steph's blood.
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  #105  
Old 06-25-2010, 09:53 PM
justus4all justus4all is offline
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It looks like either her hair is covering her face....or...she is on her stomach..doesn't look like a fetal position..
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  #106  
Old 06-25-2010, 09:57 PM
epiphany epiphany is offline
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Originally Posted by jilly View Post
I think the only thing we've heard is Black Jeep. It could have been Jeep's sports utility vehicle.

http://www.***********.com/2010/06/j...rning-graphic/
When voice-over read his confession tonight, her 4 x 4 black sports car is supposedly what they drove to hotel in. Prior to tonight, believe all were just speculating that drove there in her black SUV. Said tonight that her sports car is where the Father said date-rape drug was found.
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  #107  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sanny View Post
Yeah, but prior to him going for coffee....he must've taken a shower and changed his clothes.....did his pretend to be locked out trick and got the clerk to open the door for him.....so I think everything he had to do was already done...like the clean up detail.....that's when he high tailed it out of dodge........

In the Caylee Daily report the picture shows her under the window ....anyone notice that?
I think this is the moment Joran decided it was time to high tail it out of dodge...

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  #108  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by justus4all View Post
It looks like either her hair is covering her face....or...she is on her stomach..doesn't look like a fetal position..
From the two extra Crimesider photos that a poster here found and posted, she was definitely on her back IMO.
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  #109  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:06 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Originally Posted by justus4all View Post
It looks like either her hair is covering her face....or...she is on her stomach..doesn't look like a fetal position..
You are absolutely correct.....on back......legs stretched out under the bedspread.

Looks like alot of blood on spread....and the floor too.

If decomp happened quickly......remember it's winter there....they must have some heat on in the room......and I bet it didn't smell like 'pizza' either....
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  #110  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:07 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
From the two extra Crimesider photos that a poster here found and posted, she was definitely on her back IMO.
Where the fetal position came from ....... I don't know....more media frenzy I suppose....crime photos do not lie.
  #111  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:08 PM
KR2tonenow KR2tonenow is offline
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[quote=Kamille;5333548]Just some observations from looking at the photos from the crime scene. We have been speculating about the jeans and whether they were pulled off in a struggle during an attempted sexual assault or removed either by JVS or SF without a struggle. Looking at the photo of the jeans on the Crimesider site, it does appear as though there are several blood splatters on them even though there is only one arrow. Not sure where we got the information that there was no blood on her jeans. One thing I did notice, however, is that the jeans have a two button waist and a zipper fly closure. From the photos, it does not appear as though there was any tearing in that area or anywhere else on the jeans. If there was a struggle in which the jeans were “torn” off, I think there would be some damage to this area. They appear to have been removed normally by undoing both the buttons and the zipper fly.

Ok, Kamille, excellent post. I will try and answer what I think happened:
1/I don't think there was a attempt rape at all.
2/The jeans were removed post violence either by SF (but honestly I don't think so). I think he may have slammed her hard and told her he would not hurt her if she removed her shoes and pants first. That is why there isn't much blood splatter, because the shoes/pants were nearby but not on SF at that time.
3/Right, jeans were removed normally, I agree.

During JVS’s statement, I believe the question was posed to him about why he removed her pants and shoes. He replied that he didn’t know. Does this mean that LE has determined that the pants and shoes were removed after the murder? Did they come to that conclusion based on the fact that there is blood on both of them?

1/JVDS isn't going to admit that he was threatening SF for her money and pin numbers so his reply is "I don't know."

It has been widely reported that JVS “cleaned up the scene” with the bedclothes. How then does it appear as though SF is laying on them? If he used the sheets to clean up the floor as I believe he also has stated, then how did they get underneath SF? I can see what looks like white bedding in the pile with his clothes at the foot of the bed but could that be one or two pillows? We don’t see the bedspread at all in the photos so perhaps it was found on the other side of the bed? Why are there no photos of that side of the room or the bedspread?

1/ I believe JVDS used one sheet to "stage" the body so when she was dead he placed her on the sheet. Maybe the bottom sheet and bedspread were used for the "clean up". Sheet was probably used underneath because at that time JVDS was contemplating putting SF in luggage.

He would have had to move her to place her on those sheets if he had actually used them to clean the floor. Is it possible that she did get as far as the tiled hallway in her bid to escape and that the crime actually happened there? Tiled walls and floors…lots of potential for damage there. He could not have cleaned blood from a carpeted floor very well with sheets...or anything really… so did he use them to clean up the tiled hallway? Did the brown bottle of liquid, which appears to have been found in the bathroom next to a coffee cup with the lid off, figure into this possible cleaning of tile floors and walls? Was he drinking that coffee while he was cleaning? Did he buy that brown bottle when he went out for coffee? Did he move SF to the location where she was found? And if he didn’t, why would he lie about using the sheets to clean the floor? Could this be why we are not seeing the video of when he went for coffee. Was there something shown in that hallway on the tape when he opened the door to go out for the coffee? Blood…Stephany?

1/ I don't think so.
2/I believe the theory that the brown bottle was to dye JVDS hair, or help in cleanup.
3/ I think SF was initially put in a chair bound by bungie cord and shoe laces. Her body was probably pushed over from the chair position, that would explain why SF was found with her knees up or someone said in the fetal position. And the chair was simply removed.
3/We have a video of JVDS leaving the lobby area for coffee. Not sure why we haven't seen him leave the room initially.

When looking at the position her body was in when found, if he did remove the shoes and jeans when she was lying there on the floor beside the bed where she was found, would her legs have fallen into that unusual legs drawn up fetal position when the rest of her body was on it’s back with one arm outstretched and the other beside her body?


1/ Yes. but after he dropped her from the chair. If she was dead in the chair say 2-3 hours, that is long enough for rigor mortis to set in.

IMO.
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  #112  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:11 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
I think this is the moment Joran decided it was time to high tail it out of dodge...

I wonder what was going through that thick skull of his in that picture.....LOL

That's when his FBI trick, frame, I've been lured......came into his head...

Instead he said......

Hotel TACKY I'm outta here....pronto quicko......
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  #113  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:14 PM
KR2tonenow KR2tonenow is offline
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Originally Posted by epiphany View Post
Have we always known about her 4 by 4 black sports car? Or was that new info this evening?
I thought it was a jeep?
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  #114  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:14 PM
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Kamille Kamille is offline
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Originally Posted by Sanny View Post
You are absolutely correct.....on back......legs stretched out under the bedspread.

Looks like alot of blood on spread....and the floor too.

If decomp happened quickly......remember it's winter there....they must have some heat on in the room......and I bet it didn't smell like 'pizza' either....

Just wondering if you are looking at the correct crime scene photos of Stephany. The one's on the Caylee Daily site are a re enactment from the National Enquirer and are not Stephany. It's been a bit of a confusion. I think the real ones are posted in the media thread.

Her legs were up and to the side, up against the wall bent in a somewhat fetal position. There was no bedspread near her.
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  #115  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Sanny View Post
I wonder what was going through that thick skull of his in that picture.....LOL

That's when his FBI trick, frame, I've been lured......came into his head...

Instead he said......

Hotel TACKY I'm outta here....pronto quicko......
I really think he thought he had this all in the bag until that moment.
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  #116  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:19 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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[quote=KR2tonenow;5333780]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
Just some observations from looking at the photos from the crime scene. We have been speculating about the jeans and whether they were pulled off in a struggle during an attempted sexual assault or removed either by JVS or SF without a struggle. Looking at the photo of the jeans on the Crimesider site, it does appear as though there are several blood splatters on them even though there is only one arrow. Not sure where we got the information that there was no blood on her jeans. One thing I did notice, however, is that the jeans have a two button waist and a zipper fly closure. From the photos, it does not appear as though there was any tearing in that area or anywhere else on the jeans. If there was a struggle in which the jeans were “torn” off, I think there would be some damage to this area. They appear to have been removed normally by undoing both the buttons and the zipper fly.

Ok, Kamille, excellent post. I will try and answer what I think happened:
1/I don't think there was a attempt rape at all.
2/The jeans were removed post violence either by SF (but honestly I don't think so). I think he may have slammed her hard and told her he would not hurt her if she removed her shoes and pants first. That is why there isn't much blood splatter, because the shoes/pants were nearby but not on SF at that time.
3/Right, jeans were removed normally, I agree.

During JVS’s statement, I believe the question was posed to him about why he removed her pants and shoes. He replied that he didn’t know. Does this mean that LE has determined that the pants and shoes were removed after the murder? Did they come to that conclusion based on the fact that there is blood on both of them?

1/JVDS isn't going to admit that he was threatening SF for her money and pin numbers so his reply is "I don't know."

It has been widely reported that JVS “cleaned up the scene” with the bedclothes. How then does it appear as though SF is laying on them? If he used the sheets to clean up the floor as I believe he also has stated, then how did they get underneath SF? I can see what looks like white bedding in the pile with his clothes at the foot of the bed but could that be one or two pillows? We don’t see the bedspread at all in the photos so perhaps it was found on the other side of the bed? Why are there no photos of that side of the room or the bedspread?

1/ I believe JVDS used one sheet to "stage" the body so when she was dead he placed her on the sheet. Maybe the bottom sheet and bedspread were used for the "clean up". Sheet was probably used underneath because at that time JVDS was contemplating putting SF in luggage.

He would have had to move her to place her on those sheets if he had actually used them to clean the floor. Is it possible that she did get as far as the tiled hallway in her bid to escape and that the crime actually happened there? Tiled walls and floors…lots of potential for damage there. He could not have cleaned blood from a carpeted floor very well with sheets...or anything really… so did he use them to clean up the tiled hallway? Did the brown bottle of liquid, which appears to have been found in the bathroom next to a coffee cup with the lid off, figure into this possible cleaning of tile floors and walls? Was he drinking that coffee while he was cleaning? Did he buy that brown bottle when he went out for coffee? Did he move SF to the location where she was found? And if he didn’t, why would he lie about using the sheets to clean the floor? Could this be why we are not seeing the video of when he went for coffee. Was there something shown in that hallway on the tape when he opened the door to go out for the coffee? Blood…Stephany?

1/ I don't think so.
2/I believe the theory that the brown bottle was to dye JVDS hair, or help in cleanup.
3/ I think SF was initially put in a chair bound by bungie cord and shoe laces. Her body was probably pushed over from the chair position, that would explain why SF was found with her knees up or someone said in the fetal position. And the chair was simply removed.
3/We have a video of JVDS leaving the lobby area for coffee. Not sure why we haven't seen him leave the room initially.

When looking at the position her body was in when found, if he did remove the shoes and jeans when she was lying there on the floor beside the bed where she was found, would her legs have fallen into that unusual legs drawn up fetal position when the rest of her body was on it’s back with one arm outstretched and the other beside her body?


1/ Yes. but after he dropped her from the chair. If she was dead in the chair say 2-3 hours, that is long enough for rigor mortis to set in.

IMO.
Are you thinking that she was put in a chair dead? or alive.....tied with bungie cords or shoe laces? Whose shoe laces? and did they find those items on the floor in the room?

As for the fetal position.....the pictures show her to be on her back stretched out....no fetal position in the *********** photos at all.
  #117  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:20 PM
i.b.nora i.b.nora is offline
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Originally Posted by Sanny View Post
Where the fetal position came from ....... I don't know....more media frenzy I suppose....crime photos do not lie.
Well, except for the ones at the Caylee Daily that are shown from the National Enquirer. Those crime scene photos lie. They are fake, they are re-creations.
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  #118  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:20 PM
KR2tonenow KR2tonenow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
Just wondering if you are looking at the correct crime scene photos of Stephany. The one's on the Caylee Daily site are a re enactment from the National Enquirer and are not Stephany. It's been a bit of a confusion. I think the real ones are posted in the media thread.

Her legs were up and to the side, up against the wall bent in a somewhat fetal position. There was no bedspread near her.
Do you have a photo link handy? Thanks kindly.
  #119  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
I think this is the moment Joran decided it was time to high tail it out of dodge...

I'm rarely sassy on these boards but this picture reminds me of an old military saying~ pucker factor.

I would say at that moment he had a extreme moment of the "pucker factor".

Just me being silly
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  #120  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:21 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
Just wondering if you are looking at the correct crime scene photos of Stephany. The one's on the Caylee Daily site are a re enactment from the National Enquirer and are not Stephany. It's been a bit of a confusion. I think the real ones are posted in the media thread.

Her legs were up and to the side, up against the wall bent in a somewhat fetal position. There was no bedspread near her.
Nothing like confusion when we Sherlocks are trying to solve a murder here....
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  #121  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:23 PM
KR2tonenow KR2tonenow is offline
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[quote=Sanny;5333812]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KR2tonenow View Post

Are you thinking that she was put in a chair dead? or alive.....tied with bungie cords or shoe laces? Whose shoe laces? and did they find those items on the floor in the room?

As for the fetal position.....the pictures show her to be on her back stretched out....no fetal position in the *********** photos at all.
Alive.

There were shoe laces found and I think a bungie cord in the crime scene photos (we need a linkl!).

Fetal position.
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  #122  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:23 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Originally Posted by Kat View Post
I'm rarely sassy on these boards but this picture reminds me of an old military saying~ pucker factor.

I would say at that moment he had a extreme moment of the "pucker factor".

Just me being silly
Kat.......we need a little 'silly' every once in awhile.....
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  #123  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:24 PM
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I am interested in hearing what the other players
at the table with them,(while playing)have to
say. Did anyone overhear what he told her to
make her get up and leave with him?

Was he romantic (ugh) was it business? I hope
the pit boss,dealer or someone overheard their
conversation that night.That will tell alot about
his motives and end alot of speculation

If this has been covered,please forgive me and
please share this info with me.
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  #124  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:25 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat View Post
I'm rarely sassy on these boards but this picture reminds me of an old military saying~ pucker factor.

I would say at that moment he had a extreme moment of the "pucker factor".

Just me being silly
It's a little like......ok....now.....Smile for the camera.....LOL
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  #125  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:27 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whome? View Post
I am interested in hearing what the other players
at the table with them,(while playing)have to
say. Did anyone overhear what he told her to
make her get up and leave with him?

Was he romantic (ugh) was it business? I hope
the pit boss,dealer or someone overheard their
conversation that night.That will tell alot about
his motives and end alot of speculation

If this has been covered,please forgive me and
please share this info with me.
I think you're the first to mention this.......Whome. It would be interesting to know this...but I think when these players are concentrating on their cards, I doubt they pay much mind to what others are saying.....but I'd love to know that also.....good thinking here, whome
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