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  #151  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:01 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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QUOTE=epiphany;5333888]IMO, he knows it is over after he has murdered her, when he's wearing the red striped shirt, when he comes out of the opened hotel room door (after a few seconds) during the pathetic door knocking, limp-wristed scene. May have just been checking out who may have been around. Had anyone heard anything, been or is in the corridors? Simply, freaked out. In that videotape, he's stalling to see if anyone's coming, waiting, making sure.

There was nothing for him to do. Can't remove the body, can't clean the scene up. It's been his hotel room for two weeks. She was seen coming in, videotapes, etc. All he cares about is a few hours head start and when eventually caught, the best explanation/confession he can muster (cause he knows he's doing time for her death), which he knows will be next to impossible. But what's he gonna do? He's not stupid. He's a socio/psychopath. One does the best he can do. Try to move forward. Say what you can say. Smoke and mirrors. Whatever it takes. He adjusts and adapts well.

Believe he returns w/employee just to attempt to establish that she was still alive at that point (She wasn't.). Her body would not have been visible from what we had discussed earlier re room layout, location of body in room, etc. IMO, he does not want the employee to discover/see the body. No way. Otherwise, he would have moved it to the room's hallway. On the videotape, you can see his boldness (and pathology) - actually, leans against the hall corridor wall as door is opened. (Would I be doing that with a dead SFR in the room?). He is trying to establish a living, breathing SFR. He'll worry about the forensics later.

As JeanC confirmed recently, there's cameras all over Peru, not to mention he's well-traveled, grew up with technology, etc. It's the only time we see some panic and fear from him, other than, perhaps, upon arrival in Peru and when paraded in front of cameras for photo shoot. Cause, like a good socio/psychop - it's all about him.[/quote]

He was definitely stalling looking up and down the corridor...checking to see if all is OK.
He doesn't realize he's on Candid Camera.....yet.....does his limp pretending to knock....goes for the clerk for the door key.....knowing the clerk won't see into the room...because he's only there to open the door for him.
Besides S is not in eye view even if the clerk looks in......the hallway is too
long and S is on the side of the wall.....near the bed.

IMO even when he was paraded infront of the news media I thought he was calm, cool and collected.....he didn't look concerned or worried at all....I think he was totally disconnected.......he just didn't look like someone who was picked up for murdering a girl so viciously.......
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  #152  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:01 PM
KR2tonenow KR2tonenow is offline
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Originally Posted by Sanny View Post
Photo 6 shows her feet.....note the left foot is turned completely as if broken. It's positon is not natural......imo

However, there was no mention of a broken ankle....just neck and skull fracture and nose which was reported that one could die from a broken nose.....it would cut off her breathing.
Right, I think he kicked her feet too. The twisted feet shape appear to have been bound for sometime.
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  #153  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:07 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Originally Posted by cricket View Post
I agree that she seemed to walk strange, but then it was 5 in the morning, and may be she was tired. I don't think she had a club foot - I thought I remember reading that she did sports.
Take another good look at the crime photos......# 8 her left foot.....

it still looks broken to me......

I tried to put my foot into that position and boy the pain just shot up my leg.......just wondering .......that's all.
  #154  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:07 PM
KR2tonenow KR2tonenow is offline
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Originally Posted by epiphany View Post
IMO, he knows it is over after he has murdered her, when he's wearing the red striped shirt, when he comes out of the opened hotel room door (after a few seconds) during the pathetic door knocking, limp-wristed scene. May have just been checking out who may have been around. Had anyone heard anything, been or is in the corridors? Simply, freaked out. In that videotape, he's stalling to see if anyone's coming, waiting, making sure.

There was nothing for him to do. Can't remove the body, can't clean the scene up. It's been his hotel room for two weeks. She was seen coming in, videotapes, etc. All he cares about is a few hours head start and when eventually caught, the best explanation/confession he can muster (cause he knows he's doing time for her death), which he knows will be next to impossible. But what's he gonna do? He's not stupid. He's a socio/psychopath. One does the best he can do. Try to move forward. Say what you can say. Smoke and mirrors. Whatever it takes. He adjusts and adapts well.

Believe he returns w/employee just to attempt to establish that she was still alive at that point (She wasn't.). Her body would not have been visible from what we had discussed earlier re room layout, location of body in room, etc. IMO, he does not want the employee to discover/see the body. No way. Otherwise, he would have moved it to the room's hallway. On the videotape, you can see his boldness (and pathology) - actually, leans against the hall corridor wall as door is opened. (Would I be doing that with a dead SFR in the room?). He is trying to establish a living, breathing SFR. He'll worry about the forensics later.

As JeanC confirmed recently, there's cameras all over Peru, not to mention he's well-traveled, grew up with technology, etc. It's the only time we see some panic and fear from him, other than, perhaps, upon arrival in Peru and when paraded in front of cameras for photo shoot. Cause, like a good socio/psychop - it's all about him.
I sooo agree!
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  #155  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:07 PM
Columbo Columbo is offline
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Originally Posted by Herding Cats View Post
You know, I'm purely speculating here. But could she have had a club foot? It would account for her walking 'oddly' in the casino; it would not preclude her from playing sports; and it would account for her left foot positioning in the photos.

I have no idea how to confirm this, but it was something I thought about when the discussion first came up.

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Herding Cats
If she had a club foot, wouldn't one of her shoes have to be bigger or somehow different sized in order to accommodate it ? Her shoes looked matching to me.
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  #156  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:09 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Originally Posted by KR2tonenow View Post
Right, I think he kicked her feet too. The twisted feet shape appear to have been bound for sometime.
This poor girl.....what she must've gone through at the hands of this POS who thinks he'll get away with this........

With the clout that her family has.......I think someone one will do him in.
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  #157  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:10 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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If she had a club foot, wouldn't one of her shoes have to be bigger or somehow different sized in order to accommodate it ? Her shoes looked matching to me.
Yeah, Columbo, I thought of that too......sneakers matched.....nothing odd about them...that' why I was thinking he foot was broken in the malee.
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  #158  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:11 PM
cricket cricket is offline
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Originally Posted by Sanny View Post
Take another good look at the crime photos......# 8 her left foot.....

it still looks broken to me......

I tried to put my foot into that position and boy the pain just shot up my leg.......just wondering .......that's all.
I agree that it looks broken, but I am assuming that happened during the murder.
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  #159  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:11 PM
KR2tonenow KR2tonenow is offline
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Originally Posted by Sanny View Post
This poor girl.....what she must've gone through at the hands of this POS who thinks he'll get away with this........

With the clout that her family has.......I think someone one will do him in.
He truly tortured her! ~ SF's dad was stated as saying this early on, and HE Ain't Lying! The trial will be just desserts. But I think JVDS days are numbered.
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  #160  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:13 PM
KR2tonenow KR2tonenow is offline
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Originally Posted by Sanny View Post
Yeah, Columbo, I thought of that too......sneakers matched.....nothing odd about them...that' why I was thinking he foot was broken in the malee.
Looks broken but not in autopsy report, is it? I think bound and rigor set in.
IMO
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  #161  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:13 PM
epiphany epiphany is offline
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Originally Posted by Whome? View Post
I am interested in hearing what the other players
at the table with them,(while playing)have to
say. Did anyone overhear what he told her to
make her get up and leave with him?

Was he romantic (ugh) was it business? I hope
the pit boss,dealer or someone overheard their
conversation that night.That will tell alot about
his motives and end alot of speculation

If this has been covered,please forgive me and
please share this info with me.
Not VDS's and SFR's conversation, but that night...VDS's frame of mind per Roberto Blades:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594143,00.html

ALL SNIPPED:

And so a friend of his approaches (inaudible). And he keeps insisting that they need to do it because the women are going to leave. And he kept playing and playing and losing. And at one point he says "I should have gotten up and left" because he's losing.

And when he was talking about the women, I got incredibly pissed off, because how could this guy be talking in this manner when he should know that somebody knows who he is? So I got up, found the guy...

And then he starts telling me he wants to go out with me because he sees that I know people, whatever, people are friendly towards me I'm a musician and people around here know me.

I'm going, yes, yes where are you going? I knew the way this guy was talking with his friend after that he had a connection and something that happened with Natalee could happen with the association of other people. It was parallel, two of the same.

He left. And after an hour and a half he came back and sat again next to me. He said, you know, you got to go out with me, I got to go out with you. I never have luck with picking up girls...
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  #162  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:15 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Originally Posted by KR2tonenow View Post
He truly tortured her! ~ SF's dad was stated as saying this early on, and HE Ain't Lying! The trial will be just desserts. But I think JVDS days are numbered.
Yup, they are numbered......and his mother knows that too.

He hasn't got a chance in hell getting out of this now.

He has come to the end of the road and his wandering days are over.
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  #163  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:15 PM
cricket cricket is offline
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Originally Posted by KR2tonenow View Post
He truly tortured her! ~ SF's dad was stated as saying this early on, and HE Ain't Lying! The trial will be just desserts. But I think JVDS days are numbered.
You know, a lot of the things her father and brother said immediately after her body was found have turned out to be true. In the beginning, some reporters were saying there was hardly any blood - which contradicted what her family was saying.
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  #164  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:17 PM
OneLove OneLove is offline
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Originally Posted by Whome? View Post
I am interested in hearing what the other players
at the table with them,(while playing)have to
say. Did anyone overhear what he told her to
make her get up and leave with him?

Was he romantic (ugh) was it business? I hope
the pit boss,dealer or someone overheard their
conversation that night.That will tell alot about
his motives and end alot of speculation

If this has been covered,please forgive me and
please share this info with me.
BBM

IIRC, he posted online that he was something of an "expert" at poker and offered his services to "teach" others. Really. As in "give lessons". I have wondered if she was asking him to teach her his exalted expert pokering trade secrets, never knowing what a poker loser he actually was.
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  #165  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:18 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Originally Posted by epiphany View Post
Not VDS's and SFR's conversation, but that night...VDS's frame of mind per Roberto Blades:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594143,00.html

ALL SNIPPED:

And so a friend of his approaches (inaudible). And he keeps insisting that they need to do it because the women are going to leave. And he kept playing and playing and losing. And at one point he says "I should have gotten up and left" because he's losing.

And when he was talking about the women, I got incredibly pissed off, because how could this guy be talking in this manner when he should know that somebody knows who he is? So I got up, found the guy...

And then he starts telling me he wants to go out with me because he sees that I know people, whatever, people are friendly towards me I'm a musician and people around here know me.

I'm going, yes, yes where are you going? I knew the way this guy was talking with his friend after that he had a connection and something that happened with Natalee could happen with the association of other people. It was parallel, two of the same.

He left. And after an hour and a half he came back and sat again next to me. He said, you know, you got to go out with me, I got to go out with you. I never have luck with picking up girls...
OH YES......I remember this guy.....he notified the owner/someone in charge about Joran.....told him what he did in Aruba....killed a girl....the RB left.

Came back another day and the owner/whoever said to RB.....you know that guy? Well he killed a girl.....and RB thought he was talking about NH....then he found out he was talking about Stephany......wow....I'm sure this guy's mind was totally blown when he heard that news.
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  #166  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:20 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Originally Posted by cricket View Post
You know, a lot of the things her father and brother said immediately after her body was found have turned out to be true. In the beginning, some reporters were saying there was hardly any blood - which contradicted what her family was saying.
The family was so well known......I'm sure they had first 'dibs' on any and all the information first hand.....I think the brother even id'd Stephany too.
  #167  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:22 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Originally Posted by OneLove View Post
BBM

IIRC, he posted online that he was something of an "expert" at poker and offered his services to "teach" others. Really. As in "give lessons". I have wondered if she was asking him to teach her his exalted expert pokering trade secrets, never knowing what a poker loser he actually was.
I really think she knew he wasn't too good at poker....he was loosing big time while she was winning.....and he had his eyes on her money then.
I think he even borrowed money from her.....remember the 'slip of the chip'
at the table........??

He may have 'lured' her to his room telling her he would pay her back once they went there.
  #168  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:25 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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I think Joran had absolutely NO TROUBLE picking up girls.....he was a charmer and knew just how to turn it on. Sociopaths are like that....they will tell you what they think you want to hear....then they strike just like the 'snake' he claims to be....but wants to be a 'lion'......well News Flash Joran.....you are a Lying lion for sure.
  #169  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:36 PM
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Kat Kat is offline
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Originally Posted by KR2tonenow View Post
Thank you, Kat! and it does appear that SF is on her back. Has this been confirmed yet?
KR2 I don't know if they had moved her before they took that shot.

IMHO there are probably a lot more crime scene photos, but we just haven't seen them yet.
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  #170  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Sanny View Post
OH YES......I remember this guy.....he notified the owner/someone in charge about Joran.....told him what he did in Aruba....killed a girl....the RB left.

Came back another day and the owner/whoever said to RB.....you know that guy? Well he killed a girl.....and RB thought he was talking about NH....then he found out he was talking about Stephany......wow....I'm sure this guy's mind was totally blown when he heard that news.
Off topic but that man is the actor and singer Ruben Blades younger brother. He has many albums out himself. Just wanted to post that because very early on there was some speculation (not on this site, but under articles...etc) that he wanted 15 mins of fame. IMHO he is already famous
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  #171  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:41 PM
Sanny Sanny is offline
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Off topic but that man is the actor and singer Ruben Blades younger brother. He has many albums out himself. Just wanted to post that because very early on there was some speculation (not on this site, but under articles...etc) that he wanted 15 mins of fame. IMHO he is already famous
Thanks Kat....yes I knew that too......I hope the 15 mins isn't really true here but one can never know.....he truly was shook up when he remembered Joran and Stephany......at the table.
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  #172  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:41 PM
epiphany epiphany is offline
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If she had a club foot, wouldn't one of her shoes have to be bigger or somehow different sized in order to accommodate it ? Her shoes looked matching to me.
IMO, it's her individual walk. I have a few GF's who, by identifying their unique walk - the one's that have one, I know it's them even from a distance away. (As one poster said, perhaps a tomboy walk, maybe an athletic walk.)
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  #173  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:43 PM
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I think I'm calling it a night......so I'll say good night to everyone here.

I'll see you all tomorrow, same time, same station.

RIP STEPHANY.
JUSICE WILL BE COMING FOR BOTH YOU AND FOR NATALEE
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  #174  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:47 PM
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Beatrice Beatrice is offline
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Originally Posted by KR2tonenow View Post
Right, I think he kicked her feet too. The twisted feet shape appear to have been bound for sometime.
There were green bruises on her feet...They probably were bound.
She was found with her knees bent upward towards her chest.
IMO she was attacked from behind with her face (red chin), chest, red knees towards the carpet/floor.

That's why I ask if the handcuffs on the property table were Joran's or LE's.
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  #175  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:51 PM
epiphany epiphany is offline
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There were green bruises on her feet...They probably were bound.
She was found with her knees bent upward towards her chest.
IMO she was attacked from behind with her face (red chin), chest, red knees towards the carpet/floor.

That's why I ask if the handcuffs on the property table were Joran's or LE's.
In photograph #13?

http://www.radaronline.com/photos/im...oot#image-load
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