Websleuths
Go Back   Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Missing!! > The Unidentified

Notices

The Unidentified Help give someone their name back so they can go home! Information, research and discussion of the Unidentified.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-05-2010, 02:32 PM
CarlK90245's Avatar
CarlK90245 CarlK90245 is offline
UID Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: El Segundo, California
Posts: 6,179
WA - Yakima, WhtFem 916UFWA, 18-25, In Abandoned Van Behind Hardware Store, Jul'77

The Doe Network:
Hot Case 1273
http://doenetwork.org/cases/916ufwa.html


No Image Available

Unidentified White Female

* The victim was discovered on July 25, 1977 in Yakima, Yakima County, Washington
* Estimated Date of Death: 2 weeks prior
* Victim of Homicide

Vital Statistics

* Estimated age: 18-25 years old
* Approximate Height and Weight: 5'6-5'8"; 120-160 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair; brown eyes. A five-point star tattoo on the inside of her upper right thigh.
* Dentals: Available.
* Clothing/Items: Socks and blouse.
* Fingerprints: Available.

Case History
The victim was located in in the back of an abandoned van in the parking lot of a Yakima hardware store.
The van was parked at the old Yakima Hardware Co. lot on South Front Street. The vehicle belonged to the nonprofit group OIC of Washington but had not been driven for a year. The rear door could be latched but not locked.
Inside, the woman's body was found face down in the back, nude but for socks on her feet. A green sweater had been placed over her upper body. She had been strangled and sexually mutilated.
Even though fingerprints and tissue samples were sent to an FBI lab in Washington, D.C., her identity was never established.

Investigators
If you have any information about this case please contact:
Yakima Police Department
509-575-6200

You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

Case Number:
77-09000

Last edited by Kimster; 12-22-2013 at 01:55 AM. Reason: repaired link
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-05-2010, 02:32 PM
CarlK90245's Avatar
CarlK90245 CarlK90245 is offline
UID Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: El Segundo, California
Posts: 6,179
This is one of those possible matches that I've been thinking for sure they had to have checked out. It seems to me that I remember seeing something about these two cases with respect to each other. There are a lot of articles mentioning her name with regard to Rodney Alcala, but after searching through WS, Porchlight, NamUs (UID not listed), and Google Searches, I see nothing about this possible match.

Since there is not a thread for this UID, I have put it up here for discussion (along with the possible match).

Cherry Ann Greenman
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...an_cherry.html



Cherry's vital stats (i.e., height, weight, age, ethnicity, hair color, eye color) all fit this UID. The timeline and location are pretty consistent as well. The only thing that doesn't jibe is the star tattoo on the inside of the UID's upper right thigh. I'm just thinking that perhaps it is of the size and location that her family might not have been aware of it.

Last edited by CarlK90245; 07-05-2010 at 02:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CarlK90245 For This Useful Post:
  #3  
Old 07-06-2010, 05:28 PM
CarlK90245's Avatar
CarlK90245 CarlK90245 is offline
UID Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: El Segundo, California
Posts: 6,179
I just got off the line with Dave Kellett, who is the detective in charge of this case with the Yakima PD.

He said that he still checks up on this case about once a year to see if any new names appear in the system that may be a match. Surprisingly, Cherry Greenman is not on his list as someone who he has looked at, although he conceded that it's possible that King County SD has looked at it from their end. He was very friendly and seemed genuinely appreciative of my call.

He did provide some info that is not available elsewhere. The UID's Tattoo was freshly made, so the victim's family may have been unaware of it. They also speculated that she might have been an exotic dancer, but that is pure speculation.

Also, the victim was wearing prison-issue underwear (from Purdy State Prison for Women) with the name Lilly Scott stamped on it. Lilly Scott was a black woman, so they know that she is not the decedent. They have never been able to locate Lilly Scott, and they believe that she is living among the homeless. They have an LE alert out on her name as a material witness with regard to this case. If they could locate Lilly Scott, she might be able to tell them who the dead woman was, and how she ended up in the back of the van.

He said that they just recently exhumed the remains, and sent them to Univ of North Texas for a DNA profile and entry into CODIS. According to DoeNet, Cherry Greenman does have a CODIS entry. It is not clear whether the UID's DNA profile is complete, but if it is in CODIS, it would seem to be a rule-out by default.

He also said that this UID case is in NamUs, although I am unable to locate it.

He says that he will call me back in a week or so, and he advised me to call him back if I don't hear from him.

This just goes to show you that you should never presume that LE has looked into an obvious possible match.

ETA: Regarding the underwear, that seems to contradict the info that the victim was naked except for her socks. When I talk to him again, I will ask him if she was wearing the underwear, or if it was inside the van next to her body.

Last edited by CarlK90245; 07-07-2010 at 01:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to CarlK90245 For This Useful Post:
  #4  
Old 07-06-2010, 05:34 PM
masnitram's Avatar
masnitram masnitram is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix ,AZ
Posts: 443
Carl- did he give you any rule-outs? FYI- when you first posted this case I too looked on NAMUS and couldn't find it; unless the dates are off.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-06-2010, 05:35 PM
carbuff carbuff is offline
ebook Bad Fairies coming July 1 from Torridbooks.com!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 9,795
Good work following up on that, Carl.
__________________
Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-06-2010, 05:38 PM
CarlK90245's Avatar
CarlK90245 CarlK90245 is offline
UID Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: El Segundo, California
Posts: 6,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by masnitram View Post
Carl- did he give you any rule-outs? FYI- when you first posted this case I too looked on NAMUS and couldn't find it; unless the dates are off.
I usually ask, but I forgot to ask this time. I'll ask him the next time I talk to him.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CarlK90245 For This Useful Post:
  #7  
Old 07-08-2010, 09:29 AM
tatertot's Avatar
tatertot tatertot is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 719
I found another potential match for the UID: Cindy Irene King. Her Charley Project page was updated July 7, 2010 and her profile mentions she has a small, unspecified tattoo near her groin, which is probably unusual for a female today, let alone in 1977. She went missing from Grants Pass, Oregon on July 19, 1977, which is only six days before the UID was found, and the UID was thought to have been dead two weeks as of July 25, 1977.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/king_cindy.html

King was 15 - UID was 18-25
King is 5'3" - UID was 5'6"-5'8"
King has previously broken her arm twice; no mention of these injuries for the UID.
King has a small scar near her right temple; no mention of this on UID.
King wore a dental retainer; no mention of this on UID.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tatertot For This Useful Post:
  #8  
Old 07-08-2010, 09:53 AM
CarlK90245's Avatar
CarlK90245 CarlK90245 is offline
UID Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: El Segundo, California
Posts: 6,179
Could be. The unspecified tattoo is an interesting tidbit.

The time between CIK's disappearance and the UID's discovery (considering the postmortem interval) is probably a little too tight, and the height difference is a little outside of my own margin for error, especially for remains that are not completely decomposed. The age difference is probably a little outside the margin as well. Normally age estimates for teens are fairly accurate, but I've seen situations where they were significantly off.

Last edited by CarlK90245; 07-08-2010 at 12:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-08-2010, 12:26 PM
Billylee Billylee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,438
Some of the meanings of the 5-point and other star tattoos.

http://tattoos-and-art.com/star-tattoos/

Sadly, if this star was for protection, it sure didn't work.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-08-2010, 01:12 PM
Billylee Billylee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,438
Carl, the Doenetwork lists Cherry's eyes as being blue:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2394dfwa.html

I do find it interesting that according to this, Cherry spent some time in jail. Perhaps she was in that Purdy correctional center also at some time. I wonder if that's why her family waited so long to report her missing, that she kept bouncing around and landing in jail?

Greenman, who was 19 in 1976, was last seen when she was released from the Douglas County Jail in Waterville that year, Urquhart said. Her hometown at the time is not known today. Greenman’s family reported her missing in 2004, Urquhart said.

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...-to-convicted/
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Billylee For This Useful Post:
  #11  
Old 07-08-2010, 01:23 PM
CarlK90245's Avatar
CarlK90245 CarlK90245 is offline
UID Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: El Segundo, California
Posts: 6,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billylee View Post
Carl, the Doenetwork lists Cherry's eyes as being blue:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2394dfwa.html
Charley Project lists her eyes as brown. One of them is wrong.

They do appear blue in the photo though.

If she has an arrest record, you would think that her fingerprints are in AFIS.

Last edited by CarlK90245; 07-08-2010 at 01:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-05-2010, 01:24 PM
CarlK90245's Avatar
CarlK90245 CarlK90245 is offline
UID Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: El Segundo, California
Posts: 6,179
I got back with Dave Kellett of the Yakima PD. Cherry Greenman was ruled out on dentals.

I asked him whether there was a rule-out listing, and he replied that there was not one that he could make public. They intend to create a NamUs case file for the UID, but he is still learning how to use the system.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-24-2012, 01:12 PM
traacker13's Avatar
traacker13 traacker13 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 276
I found this rather interesting information about the five point star tattoo. I have no idea how relevant this is for the UID but thought this was interesting and may deserve a look.

From the website: http://princessraqs.blogspot.com/201...adornment.html

I found this paragraph:

"During the 1960’s and 1970’s, many Turkish belly dancers sported tattoos of a five-pointed star, usually on the calf or thigh. I am not sure about the origin or tradition of this, but I have seen this on several vintage promotional pictures of Turkish dancers from the time period."

I do not know how accurate this is but thought it was something to put out there
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to traacker13 For This Useful Post:
  #14  
Old 03-14-2012, 01:31 AM
kpdx's Avatar
kpdx kpdx is offline
Jane Doe was discovered Aug. 14, 1977 outside of Everett WA
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: PDX, OR
Posts: 440
CarlK, did you ever ask LE about Cindy King as a possible? The tattoo seems like a good lead.

Noticed Jane is still not in NAMUS.
__________________
'Nothing clears up a case so much as stating it to another person.'

Sherlock Holmes
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-14-2012, 01:52 AM
CarlK90245's Avatar
CarlK90245 CarlK90245 is offline
UID Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: El Segundo, California
Posts: 6,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpdx View Post
CarlK, did you ever ask LE about Cindy King as a possible? The tattoo seems like a good lead.

Noticed Jane is still not in NAMUS.
No, I didn't. There are too many discrepancies to explain away, IMO.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CarlK90245 For This Useful Post:
  #16  
Old 05-09-2012, 04:37 PM
traacker13's Avatar
traacker13 traacker13 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 276
When I was looking through missing persons on DoeNetwork I found Nancy Jason's information and reading through it I immediately thought of this UID.

It mentions that Nancy was a member of the Divine Light Mission cult that was lead by the Guru Maharaj Ji. The memory of the tattoo of the five point star immediately popped out to me and I kept doing more research. When the dates matched up almost exactly and the hair, eye color and height matched I thought I should def. post something.

Nancy Jason: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3142dfmd.html

What do you think about this possibility?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-09-2012, 06:54 PM
CarlK90245's Avatar
CarlK90245 CarlK90245 is offline
UID Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: El Segundo, California
Posts: 6,179
Nancy Jason sure fits the parameters. I would say that she should at least be looked at and ruled out. But according to DoeNet, there aren't any identifiers on her.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-09-2012, 07:10 PM
deca deca is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
Nancy Jason sure fits the parameters. I would say that she should at least be looked at and ruled out. But according to DoeNet, there aren't any identifiers on her.
Don't the dates seem a little close together (7 days)? And she had to get all the way from MD?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-09-2012, 08:21 PM
CarlK90245's Avatar
CarlK90245 CarlK90245 is offline
UID Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: El Segundo, California
Posts: 6,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by deca View Post
Don't the dates seem a little close together (7 days)? And she had to get all the way from MD?
You're right. I had forgotten about the 2-week postmortem interval.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-10-2012, 01:07 PM
traacker13's Avatar
traacker13 traacker13 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 276
Even with the dates being close who knows if the weather caused the UID to decomp. quickly. I think at the very least she should be looked at. Although as CarlK mentions she doesn't have any identifiers so that she can be compared...sigh
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to traacker13 For This Useful Post:
  #21  
Old 12-18-2013, 08:38 AM
alllads's Avatar
alllads alllads is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 387
Bumping for this UID, the prison lead is a good clue, if only we could figure out what it means.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OK OK - Kiowa County - White Female 569UFOK, 18-29, July 2005 anthrobones The Unidentified 37 07-08-2013 07:00 PM
CA CA - Highland, WhtFem 628UFCA, 30-50, Necklace w/Maltese Crucifix, Mar'77 jules19osu The Unidentified 10 02-04-2012 08:11 PM
Match! CA - San Francisco - WhtFem, ~40, Roadside Lumber Cap - Jul'10 - *Nancy Barrett* zinc Identified! 27 01-26-2012 08:32 PM
CA CA - Emigrant Gap, WhtFem 640UFCA, 25-35, Near I-80 in Snowbank, Dec'77 CarlK90245 The Unidentified 12 08-27-2011 10:56 PM
Identified! FL - Osceola County - White Female, 30-40, July 2007 - Ragan Kendall, 48 all4tara Identified! 7 07-10-2007 02:53 PM


© Copyright Websleuths 1999-2012 New To Site? Need Help?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:01 PM.

Advertisements

Pre-Order Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony today!