FL FL - Miami Beach, WhtMale 1388UMFL, 46-70, Large Abdominal Scar -Tracheostomy, Apr'95

kitbits · #1 07-17-2010, 06:16 PM

Ok, this is one I ran across a few months ago, and it has been bugging me. Tried to find it on here, but can't see it, so here goes:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1388umfl.html

It's bugging me because I noticed some things in the description that lead me to believe that he might have been a native of the UK or NI or a commonwealth country perhaps:

1. His underwear came from Marks & Spencer, which is a major department-type store over here & they sell their own brand of clothing, food, etc.

2. The date inscribed on his wedding band is done so in the UK/European fashion: dd/mm/year, in this case 26th December 1958, which is Boxing Day in the UK. The 'A.C.' I am thinking could be his initials or perhaps his first initial and the brides, for example.

3. The other ring: 'gold colored ring, with a black stone that has tiny red flecks, with an engraved dragon with 3 crosses, on a single dagger/sword' could be heraldic. I found a larger picture of it and it looks like a dragon or a griffin with a cross fitcheé .('Cross Fitchee - Sharpened at the lower part; pointed like a dagger. The arms of the See of Canterbury represent four crosses patée fitchée.') So it could be from his family or some sort of order or even the village or borough or town from which he came. I'll try to find the larger photo and post it.

I am wondering if the LE is aware of any of these things or if it is worth informing them?

Thanks!

kitbits · #2 07-17-2010, 06:19 PM

oh yes...I did look on the UK missing persons website & didn't see anyone that rang any bells, but please feel free:

www.missingpeople.org.uk

I do pop on there from time to time to see if anyone has been added, though it's not the best site to navigate.

reasypeasy · #3 07-29-2010, 03:34 AM

He is not totally without resemblance to Victor Howard Gray

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/785dmca.html

I have frequently seen "Marks & Spencer "St. Michael" branded items in thrift shops here in Australia but I do not know whether that is because of donations by tourists or because the stuff is actually sold here. We don't have Marks and Spencer stores, but it is the sort of brand that a department store like David Jones or the now defunct John Martins might have sought to associate themselves with. We also write our dates with the day before the month.

Cymro · #4 07-29-2010, 02:36 PM

At the time this man was found, Marks & Spencer ("M&S") also operated in Canada, France and Germany - although not to a great extent in the latter two countries.

carbuff · #5 07-29-2010, 02:58 PM

Did you ever find that larger photo of the ring? I can't make it out in that tiny picture but the description is ringing a very faint bell.

tatertot · #6 07-30-2010, 08:14 AM

Larger images of the rings on his NamUs profile:

https://identifyus.org/medias/full/3982

carbuff · #7 07-30-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tatertot

Larger images of the rings on his NamUs profile:

https://identifyus.org/medias/full/3982

I sent it to a friend of mine who's a medieval researcher. This looks to me like a Church of England ring of some sort, but what do I know?

Will let you know when I hear back from her.

kitbits · #8 07-30-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reasypeasy

He is not totally without resemblance to Victor Howard Gray

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/785dmca.html

I have frequently seen "Marks & Spencer "St. Michael" branded items in thrift shops here in Australia but I do not know whether that is because of donations by tourists or because the stuff is actually sold here. We don't have Marks and Spencer stores, but it is the sort of brand that a department store like David Jones or the now defunct John Martins might have sought to associate themselves with. We also write our dates with the day before the month.

that makes sense--loads of Brits re-locate or have family members there. Thanks!

kitbits · #9 07-30-2010, 02:53 PM

and sorry for not posting the larger pic sooner...brain is distracted lately :s

thank you, tatertot & carbuff & everyone...

glad to know about M&S being in other places--I had no idea! I was also thinking, lots of Brits go to Florida, NY & California for holidays, etc. But it's just a hunch...

hmmm a C of E ring...that's a good possibility. thanks, again

carbuff · #10 07-30-2010, 05:45 PM

Laryngectomy with the open stoma indicates cancer surgery, I would think. Does anybody know a doctor who could translate that stuff for us?

kitbits · #11 07-30-2010, 05:52 PM

The ring is driving me nuts :s I think it is most likely heraldry, ecclesiastical or otherwise...I'm sorting of thinking perhaps like St Margaret & the Dragon (Scotland!) or St Michael and dragon or St George (England!) and dragon...something like that:

http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/ecclesiastical.html

carbuff, I can email a relative who is a pathologist & ask your question.

kitbits · #12 07-30-2010, 06:01 PM

I decided to look it up, carbuff...I never know when he's going to answer & he gets annoyed because people are always asking him medical questions :P
I have found that it's usually done as a cancer treatment, but not always:

http://apps.uwhealth.org/health/hie/1/007398.htm

carbuff · #13 07-31-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitbits

The ring is driving me nuts :s I think it is most likely heraldry, ecclesiastical or otherwise...I'm sorting of thinking perhaps like St Margaret & the Dragon (Scotland!) or St Michael and dragon or St George (England!) and dragon...something like that:

http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/ecclesiastical.html

carbuff, I can email a relative who is a pathologist & ask your question.

My academic friend didn't recognize the design. She thought it was rather humorous if the dragon (often a Satan representation) is holding the cross, but if it's run through, it's probably a St. George/Michael/Margaret reference. The cross fitchee is a very common defender-of-the-faith motif in heraldry.

She thought it looked more modern than ancient. In any case, it would seem to be the kind of thing somebody with an academic bent would be attracted to.

daisy7 · #14 07-31-2010, 12:21 PM

Just came upon this thread. I was living in Miami Beach when he was found. Not that I remember it, cuz unfortunately floating bodies are not rare occurrences in Miami

Anyways, here are a few random thoughts:

--my ex is Bahamian (well, he was born in Miami, but moved to Nassau when he was 6 months old and was raised there). The Bahamas was an English colony and they still follow the English in regards to clothing, dates and spelling of words.

--The UID seems to have the same coloring as my ex's Bahamian step-father and his family.

--Also, my ex's Bahamian step-father (well, really father, cuz he adopted him) is part Chinese. I don't know if this is common for Bahamians, but this might explain the dragon ring.

--Plus, the Bahamas is quite close to Miami and the UID was found between MB and there.

Again, these are just my random thoughts.

kitbits · #15 08-01-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbuff

My academic friend didn't recognize the design. She thought it was rather humorous if the dragon (often a Satan representation) is holding the cross, but if it's run through, it's probably a St. George/Michael/Margaret reference. The cross fitchee is a very common defender-of-the-faith motif in heraldry.

She thought it looked more modern than ancient. In any case, it would seem to be the kind of thing somebody with an academic bent would be attracted to.

Yes, I was thinking it had to do with a 'defender of the faith' theme. I don't think it's holding the cross, but being run through. But then I'm not entirely conviced it is a dragon--I think that it could either be a dragon or a griffin. He could have been a mason, as well. My masonic friends are drawn to this type of thing (think Knights Templar & all that).

Thanks, carbuff, for this & for asking your friend

kitbits · #16 08-01-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisy7

Just came upon this thread. I was living in Miami Beach when he was found. Not that I remember it, cuz unfortunately floating bodies are not rare occurrences in Miami

Anyways, here are a few random thoughts:

--my ex is Bahamian (well, he was born in Miami, but moved to Nassau when he was 6 months old and was raised there). The Bahamas was an English colony and they still follow the English in regards to clothing, dates and spelling of words.

--The UID seems to have the same coloring as my ex's Bahamian step-father and his family.

--Also, my ex's Bahamian step-father (well, really father, cuz he adopted him) is part Chinese. I don't know if this is common for Bahamians, but this might explain the dragon ring.

--Plus, the Bahamas is quite close to Miami and the UID was found between MB and there.

Again, these are just my random thoughts.

Daisy, thanks--very useful insight & interesting because I ran across a Bahamian colonial familty crest that sounded similar...I must try and find it again.

kitbits · #17 08-01-2010, 03:27 PM

Oh oops...that wasn't the Bahamas, but Bermuda that I was thinking of. Still, it's a very good thought, Daisy

kitbits · #18 08-01-2010, 03:41 PM

Oh oops...that wasn't the Bahamas, but Bermuda that I was thinking of. Still, it's a very good thought, Daisy

Just out of interest, here is the coat of arms for Sandys Parish in Bermuda, which contains some of the ring's elements:

http://www.bermuda-online.org/sandys.gif

Cymro · #19 08-01-2010, 03:58 PM

M&S is also present in the Bahamas.

http://corporate.marksandspencer.com...ational_stores

I don't know if they were present in the Bahamas in 1995 or before, but it certainly seems likely, given that they stepped back from several territories around 1999-2001 due to a financial crisis when they lost their way in marketing terms. Since then, when they have opened new stores overseas, it has been in less established markets.

I'm torn as to the significance of the decedent's clothing. The great bulk of such clothes would have been sold in the United Kingdom - but a British person, missing overseas, would be highly noticeable in terms of media attention, and he ought to have been identified fairly quickly even without paper ID on him.

If he were an emigrant or not in Florida as a tourist then the odds of his going unidentified increase, but that is balanced by the overwhelming number of M&S customers who would only ever be in Florida on vacation and thus high profile missing persons.

Someone from the Bahamas, who could easily move between there and Florida on a regular basis, seems to square the circle, although only a tiny percentage of M&S products would have been sold in the one store there.

carmac · #20 08-01-2010, 04:56 PM

Carbuff- All that scarring on his neck is likely due to a "Radical or partial Neck Dissection", frequently done when a person has extensive cancer or cancer including the lymph nodes in the neck. This would include the laryngectomy, removal of all tumor, as many of the lymph nodes as are involved as well as other structures in the neck including arteries, nerves and muscles. The degree to which the surgery is done is dependant on the size and infiltration of the tumor. At the very least it appears from the information given that he had a laryngectomy with resultant stoma. The stoma is actually where they have brought the windpipe to the surface at the neck, so instead of breathing through his mouth and nose, he would have breathed thru the hole in his neck.

The Omega Watch is what caught my eye. Omega watches are a pricey item, and would have likely been registered to him whenever he purchased it. Each one is marked with it's own serial number on the outside of the case. It appears from the picture that this one is gold, and if it is indeed a genuine Omega ( and not a knock off), it will be 18 K solid gold, not plated.

I have already sent an email to the case coordinator to let them know to look for the number and where to contact. Hopefully this will get us the identity of this poor man, or if he's not the original purchaser, then a geographical area where he may be from.

It is interesting that this gentleman is fully clothed, down to the hankerchief, yet had no wallet.. so if he was robbed, they missed the watch and rings... Weird...

carbuff · #21 08-01-2010, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carmac

Carbuff- All that scarring on his neck is likely due to a "Radical or partial Neck Dissection", frequently done when a person has extensive cancer or cancer including the lymph nodes in the neck. This would include the laryngectomy, removal of all tumor, as many of the lymph nodes as are involved as well as other structures in the neck including arteries, nerves and muscles. The degree to which the surgery is done is dependant on the size and infiltration of the tumor. At the very least it appears from the information given that he had a laryngectomy with resultant stoma. The stoma is actually where they have brought the windpipe to the surface at the neck, so instead of breathing through his mouth and nose, he would have breathed thru the hole in his neck.

The Omega Watch is what caught my eye. Omega watches are a pricey item, and would have likely been registered to him whenever he purchased it. Each one is marked with it's own serial number on the outside of the case. It appears from the picture that this one is gold, and if it is indeed a genuine Omega ( and not a knock off), it will be 18 K solid gold, not plated.

I have already sent an email to the case coordinator to let them know to look for the number and where to contact. Hopefully this will get us the identity of this poor man, or if he's not the original purchaser, then a geographical area where he may be from.

It is interesting that this gentleman is fully clothed, down to the hankerchief, yet had no wallet.. so if he was robbed, they missed the watch and rings... Weird...

Thanks. I thought that was probably what the surgery scars meant, but I wasn't sure.

Yeah, that watch is expensive, and the ring looks like it's heavy gold. Both of them worth stealing if robbery was the motive.

kitbits · #22 08-09-2010, 07:03 AM

thanks to all for your valuable insight. I'm going to be travelling for a few weeks, so won't be around, but *fingers crossed* something good happens.

I was mainly just thinking he might have been an ex-pat & might have lived in the Americas for many, many years, but like me, has family back home & might occassionally have travelled home to visit, which often includes a bit of shopping...just about to take my first proper trip to the US in 9 years, so I guess I've got ex-pat scenarios on the brain!

Poor chap...really do hope he is ID'd and returned to his family.

Thanks again, everyone...lots to ponder...

carbuff · #23 08-09-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitbits

thanks to all for your valuable insight. I'm going to be travelling for a few weeks, so won't be around, but *fingers crossed* something good happens.

I was mainly just thinking he might have been an ex-pat & might have lived in the Americas for many, many years, but like me, has family back home & might occassionally have travelled home to visit, which often includes a bit of shopping...just about to take my first proper trip to the US in 9 years, so I guess I've got ex-pat scenarios on the brain!

Poor chap...really do hope he is ID'd and returned to his family.

Thanks again, everyone...lots to ponder...

I think the ex-pat scenario has a lot of merit.

And have a great time on your trip back!

carbuff · #24 08-26-2010, 01:46 PM

Okay, this one jumped out at me this morning and I need some other opinions: Adam Breaux, 50, missing 1991 from Louisiana. A well-dressed gentleman who had worked at a men's clothing store for 30 years.

LA Adam John Breaux(50)-Houma-28 AUG 91 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Height is on (5'10" vs. 5'11") I can account for the weight gain and thicker eyebrows as age-related changes, and clearly the UID has been through some medical issues. Ears seem to match. But the eye color is off in a way that makes me think it can't be resolved, and despite the facial similarity I don't think it quite matches.

What do the rest of you think -- is it close enough to follow up on? Or close but no cigar?

kitbits · #25 09-02-2010, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbuff

Okay, this one jumped out at me this morning and I need some other opinions: Adam Breaux, 50, missing 1991 from Louisiana. A well-dressed gentleman who had worked at a men's clothing store for 30 years.

LA Adam John Breaux(50)-Houma-28 AUG 91 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Height is on (5'10" vs. 5'11") I can account for the weight gain and thicker eyebrows as age-related changes, and clearly the UID has been through some medical issues. Ears seem to match. But the eye color is off in a way that makes me think it can't be resolved, and despite the facial similarity I don't think it quite matches.

What do the rest of you think -- is it close enough to follow up on? Or close but no cigar?

hi carbuff--I think it's worth looking into. You're right that it isn't perfect, per se, but I think there are enough similarities. The mouth really jumped out at me and the nose seems similar & I agree with the ears.

& yes, had a wonderful time, thanks!