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Caylee Anthony 2 years old Not reported missing for a month after she was last seen.


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  #1326  
Old 03-26-2011, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by faefrost View Post
Woot! Good find. Reading it a little I did find the one hugely problematic element of it for the defense.

Defense counsel proposed to offer expert trial testimony from Dr. Harry Krop, a licensed clinical psychologist.   Dr. Krop would testify that Mizell has been diagnosed with PTSD, and he would explain what PTSD is and how PTSD affects an individual's perceptions.   The State objected to the prospect of such expert testimony and filed a motion in limine to prevent its admission.   The trial court denied the motion, outlining very specific conditions under which the defense would be able to offer the PTSD evidence:

1.  The Defendant must lay a predicate by testifying,

2.  Thereafter, Dr. Krop may testify as to the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

3. Dr. Krop may reveal the Defendant's alleged background but may not vouch for it.

4. Dr. Krop may not refer to the Battered Wife's Syndrome.

5. Dr. Krop may not offer an opinion as to the validity of self-defense in this case.

So here we have an established test for using the "state of mind" PTSD approach that mandates that the defendent take the stand before any such evidence may be presented. Oh that should be fun!
I agree but believe the defense team will try to avoid putting her on the stand by arguing it isn't necessary since they're only using it as "state of mind" and not diminished capacity. . . Not that I believe it will fly with HHJP ~ but I think that's where they'll try to go with this. moo.
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
HOWEVER, there are witnesses from Casey's childhood which testify to Casey being a pathological liar all of her life. So they will not be able to target the rape as a source of the PTSD. They would have to say it stemmed from the Anthony's themselves and her childhood. I think that will be harder to do.
I am not saying that I believe that happened for one moment. I just think it is one of the better ideas brought up here by a member that the defense can use in Casey's defense. It does not mean a jury is going to buy it... which I don't think they will.
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:30 PM
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IMO....Casey knows exactly who the father is of Caylee.
After seeing & talking to ------ at a party she broke down for an hour or so.

Every time she looks at Caylee she sees his face...A rejecting one.
Agree - Beatrice - I think ICA at least has a good idea - but we are playing what if - what if ICA lies (no surprise here) and says yes, she was raped. If one of her mitigation people got the rape story out of her, and passed it on to Ann Finnell, then that may have precipitated the concept of this PTSS defense.

Certainly many stories the defense has come up with is enlarging on a word or two out of ICA's mouth. The point of that word or two being a lie seems to have nothing to do with it.
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
I am not saying that I believe that happened for one moment. I just think it is one of the better ideas brought up here by a member that the defense can use in Casey's defense. It does not mean a jury is going to buy it... which I don't think they will.
I know you don't believe it---didn't mean to imply that , sorry.

And I agree totally that it is the best defense so far. I HOPE they do not find a juror that will believe it, but people DO send Casey snack money. So you never know.
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ExpectingUnicorns View Post
I agree but believe the defense team will try to avoid putting her on the stand by arguing it isn't necessary since they're only using it as "state of mind" and not diminished capacity. . . Not that I believe it will fly with HHJP ~ but I think that's where they'll try to go with this. moo.
But IF these lies and these 'ugly coping' behaviors are going to become part of the defense strategy, then they do not have to keep her off the stand. They may want her to testify because she can tell the jury how horrible PTSD is and how her life was so very hard. Maybe that is why she is so engaged in the testimony so far and takes so many notes. I bety she WANTS to testify because she knows everyone will believe her.
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
I know you don't believe it---didn't mean to imply that , sorry.

And I agree totally that it is the best defense so far. I HOPE they do not find a juror that will believe it, but people DO send Casey snack money. So you never know.
Oh, I know you weren't implying that. No need to say you're sorry.

Even if they find "one" juror to believe it, that doesn't mean that Casey goes free... which is a good thing. One juror will simply give Casey the mistrial she so desperately wants. Then we'll have to do it all over again.
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
One of the main side effects of 'ptsd' is sex and love addiction. The obsession with love and sex to the detriment of one's own daily life. So they may try and use Tony as a prop here as well. imo
But but but but did the defense not make a motion to exclude all the sex stuff w/ Tony R and TonE L? And did not the prosecution agree to limit inquiry to just the nature of the relationship? (Yeah, we had sex, but no details.)

So how do they get this in?

Did the defense shoot themselves in the foot again?

Does the defense have any feet left to shoot?
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:37 PM
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Yes, I agree it is the best possible "throw this one at the wall and see if it sticks" DT theories the defense could come up with. We are holding our breath to see if they actually will - but I'm not positive this is what they have got up their sleeves. Remember several posters came up with it, not the DT.

Why not? Because it's clever - it's well thought out, it has some possibilities....it just doesn't sound like the DT - so maybe it's AF's influence.

Baez came up with SODDI and........well, soddi and.........
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
One of the main side effects of 'ptsd' is sex and love addiction. The obsession with love and sex to the detriment of one's own daily life. So they may try and use Tony as a prop here as well. imo
I've suffered from PTSD for over 5 years and been in therapy for it almost all that time. I have participated in 3 group therapy sessions with different people.
None of them showed any kind of excessive sexual behavior. They were mostly very withdrawn, like me. It was at the beginning of my therapy, and I didn't like talking about what happened to me (finding my son's body after he died) with others - I still relive it everyday.

I think that if the trauma that caused a person to have PTSD was sexual abuse, they might present those types of symptoms as a result, but I don't think it would be classified as PTSD.

I'm not a therapist, only a sufferer.
I guess a doctor could say that any behavior was a symptom of PTSD - they have varying opinions..
I'll try to remember to ask my therapist about it at my appointment this week.

Also, I don't think AF said they were claiming PTSD - I, along with others here - kind of assumed it because the Dr. they want bring in is a PTSD specialist. They could be claiming something different...maybe.

I also agree that the DT could be trying to use the Dr. as ICA's testimony. PTSD - at least on all my disability forms - is classified as a disorder, not mental illness.
They can't claim diminished capacity as that is not allowed in FL per what HHBP said at the hearing.

jmo
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  #1335  
Old 03-26-2011, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
But but but but did the defense not make a motion to exclude all the sex stuff w/ Tony R and TonE L? And did not the prosecution agree to limit inquiry to just the nature of the relationship? (Yeah, we had sex, but no details.)

So how do they get this in?

Did the defense shoot themselves in the foot again?

Does the defense have any feet left to shoot?





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Old 03-26-2011, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
But but but but did the defense not make a motion to exclude all the sex stuff w/ Tony R and TonE L? And did not the prosecution agree to limit inquiry to just the nature of the relationship? (Yeah, we had sex, but no details.)

So how do they get this in?

Did the defense shoot themselves in the foot again?

Does the defense have any feet left to shoot?
The jury is not going to know about all the stuff the defense tried to get thrown out... the same way they will not know about all the stuff that would be thrown out. So I believe the defense has multiple stradegies based on what is coming in and what isn't coming in. So they will work around what they need to work around.

It's risky to not have one solid stradegy because I think the jury is going to think they are batty. I think they are simply going to try and prove to the jury that so many things are possible in this case... accident... someone else did it... Casey did it... but... but... but... she was a severely abused young woman... a tainted soul, if you will.

It's going to get really ugly.
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:44 PM
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Hmmm...If LE have the the name of Caylee's daddy then the rape is a no go, I believe at one point LE said they knew who the father was..if I could find where they said that!!! waaay back in 2008/2009
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:44 PM
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...this is interesting----from the 'forensic criminal' link @ his site.

http://www.jeffreydanzigermd.com/jef...ger_md_010.htm




Jeffrey A. Danziger, M. D.
Psychiatric Affiliates, P.A.

Forensic
CRIMINAL

• Competency
• Sanity at the time of the offense
• Psychosexual
• Issues relating to downward departure or sentence mitigation

Investigator Experience

ADHD
ANXIETY

BIPOLAR DISORDER
DEPRESSION
INSOMNIA


------------anyone know what " Psychosexual" is ??
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
The jury is not going to know about all the stuff the defense tried to get thrown out... the same way they will not know about all the stuff that would be thrown out. So I believe the defense has multiple stradegies based on what is coming in and what isn't coming in. So they will work around what they need to work around.

It's risky to not have one solid stradegy because I think the jury is going to think they are batty. I think they are simply going to try and prove to the jury that so many things are possible in this case... accident... someone else did it... Casey did it... but... but... but... she was a severely abused young woman... a tainted soul, if you will.

It's going to get really ugly.
I think it's already very ugly.

Does anyone know if the SA can use the mental evaluation HHJS was looking at - in the early on video where he raised his eyebrows and looked startled or something? Does the SA have access to it and can they use it?
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  #1340  
Old 03-26-2011, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiki View Post
I've suffered from PTSD for over 5 years and been in therapy for it almost all that time. I have participated in 3 group therapy sessions with different people.
None of them showed any kind of excessive sexual behavior. They were mostly very withdrawn, like me. It was at the beginning of my therapy, and I didn't like talking about what happened to me (finding my son's body after he died) with others - I still relive it everyday.

I think that if the trauma that caused a person to have PTSD was sexual abuse, they might present those types of symptoms as a result, but I don't think it would be classified as PTSD.

I'm not a therapist, only a sufferer.
I guess a doctor could say that any behavior was a symptom of PTSD - they have varying opinions..
I'll try to remember to ask my therapist about it at my appointment this week.

Also, I don't think AF said they were claiming PTSD - I, along with others here - kind of assumed it because the Dr. they want bring in is a PTSD specialist. They could be claiming something different...maybe.

I also agree that the DT could be trying to use the Dr. as ICA's testimony. PTSD - at least on all my disability forms - is classified as a disorder, not mental illness.
They can't claim diminished capacity as that is not allowed in FL per what HHBP said at the hearing.

jmo
I am so very sorry for your loss and your trauma. I am glad that you were able to seek help for your situation. It must have been very difficult.

Thank you for sharing what you know about PTSD firsthand. I only know what I cut and pasted for various websites. Dr. Weitz apparently treats women who were sexually abused and act out in sexual ways. So that is why I specified that 'side effect.'

But I agree with you that 'anything' could get lumped into that diagnosis by the DT. I know we do not know for sure thay is what they have up their sleeve, but it seems pretty likely given the main players they recently brought into the mix. We will have to wait and see.

God Bless You and I hope you can find some peace in your life after all of the turmoil.
kate
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  #1341  
Old 03-26-2011, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatrice View Post
This is what I believe to be the truth & expect the defense to use:

Caylee died as a result of drowning in the pool
while Casey was distracted with texting on her cell phone.

The entire coverup is for Casey's rationalizing what had occured
and her lack of parental responsibilty....ie Blame others.

She could not look bad in her parents eyes.
Forgot one little (big, actually) detail. KC could care less about her parents. KC only cares about KC. There were remains of a diaper found with Caylee's remains. If a child fell in the water the diaper would be sooooo heavy it would fall off. (Plus at her age and experience with going into the pool I think Caylee was aware of the danger. At age 3 my children were.) Now KC feels her child is dead so she puts a diaper on her?

Chloroform in the trunk is another big problem. jmo
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:53 PM
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So when JB asked GA if he would do anything to save his daughter's life does anyone think this may have to do with GA signing an affidavit to the affect that KC was telling the truth about the sexual abuse just to keep her from the DP. That way after the trial he will just admit to signing a false report. Of course that will get him into trouble also so I do not think his attorney would go along with that. Just a thought. Certainly was a strange thing to say to a witness from an "officer of the court". jmo
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:55 PM
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Also, the pool ladder being up is an issue for me. Remember CA's story about coming home and finding the pool ladder up on the side of the pool? and she asked GA about it but he denied doing it?
I believe CA would NEVER leave that ladder up, and GA wouldn't either as he knows he'd be in deep doo doo with CA. So who put the ladder up giving Caylee access to the pool?

Of course, the whole story could be a lie to come up with a reason Caylee died other than ICA murdered her.

jmo

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Old 03-26-2011, 04:01 PM
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Hmmm...If LE have the the name of Caylee's daddy then the rape is a no go, I believe at one point LE said they knew who the father was..if I could find where they said that!!! waaay back in 2008/2009
Unless he really is dead? Then she could say whatever she wants about him and no one could really refute it.
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Old 03-26-2011, 04:05 PM
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They could also use, George molested Casey, my mommy didn't protect me from my daddy, they were going to take my baby away from me, I didn't want her to go through what I had so I killed her. I was trying to save her from Jojo.
Far fetched but anything is possible
At this point I think they are just trying to keep her alive and get the DP off the table.
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Old 03-26-2011, 04:08 PM
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Also, the pool ladder being up is an issue for me. Remember CA's story about coming home and finding the pool ladder up on the side of the pool? and she asked GA about it but he denied doing it?
I believe CA would NEVER leave that ladder up, and GA wouldn't either as he knows he'd be in deep doo doo with CA. So who put the ladder up giving Caylee access to the pool?

Of course, the whole story could be a lie to come up with a reason Caylee died other than ICA murdered her.

jmo

.
The pool ladder has always bothered me too. No way George would have left it up there. He is rather meticulous. But I also wonder when and from whom we first heard about the ladder. Could it be a red herring thrown out there, like you say, to serve as an excuse for accidental death?

I had once thought that maybe Casey let Caylee go swimming that afternoon after george went to work, and she just neglected to watch her closely. But that might be giving Casey too much credit as a human. It may be much uglier than that.

And the diaper does pose problems. I have seen what happens to diapers in swimming pools. They weigh about 30 lbs and the water does not leave the diaper so it falls off in a few minutes. So that kind of discredits the pool theory.

eta; except I guess if someone were going to add duct tape for the kidnap cover-upm, they could add a clean diaper for their ploy too.
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Old 03-26-2011, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
She didn't want to look "bad" in her parents eyes? She financially raped Cindy blind for years! Sure, stealing isn't as bad as murder, but Casey could care less about her parents. She lied about so many things (graduation, work, etc...) and didn't care. She accused her parents of some awful things to her friends before any of this happened. Casey is hell bent on destroying her parents... she blames them for where she is at today. She is willing to torture them at this trial. So she doesn't care one bit how "bad" she appears to her parents.
I think this is how she can hurt them the most, destroy the very person who took the focus off of her (Caylee), then turn the knife more to blame her parents for trying to keep the sweet pristine image of the A household, but it was never a life that she chose. She continues to enact revenge by refusing to look at her parents, talk with them, or interact in any way. If she can make the A's (CA's specifically) the reason for the bizarre behavior after finding her daughter had died - she may be able to avoid the DP. Do you think KC has resigned herself to spending the rest of her life behind bars? Also, I want to know why NOW do we have this speculation instead of 2 years ago? Was it AF that took this on as the only way to save KC's life, should she be found guilty and convicted? I think JB is not wanting to go down this track - but AF feels it is imperative to saving KC's life.

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Old 03-26-2011, 05:05 PM
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I think this is how she can hurt them the most, destroy the very person who took the focus off of her (Caylee), then turn the knife more to blame her parents for trying to keep the sweet pristine image of the A household, but it was never a life that she chose. She continues to enact revenge by refusing to look at her parents, talk with them, or interact in any way. If she can make the A's (CA's specifically) the reason for the bizarre behavior after finding her daughter had died - she may be able to avoid the DP. Do you think KC has resigned herself to spending the rest of her life behind bars? Also, I want to know why NOW do we have this speculation instead of 2 years ago? Was it AF that took this on as the only way to save KC's life, should she be found guilty and convicted? I think JB is not wanting to go down this track - but AF feels it is imperative to saving KC's life.
I'm not trying to be a smart aleck here but the only reason I think we were not looking at this theory two years ago or really any other except poor Mr. Kronk is because the only people doing any work on this case were the SA.

Hasn't it only been since about December/10 the DT actually started out some motions and doing long overdue depos?
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Old 03-26-2011, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
I know Casey knows. I am just trying to see what the defense can use in her defense. It's hard to defend a cold, calculated murderer... which I believe she is. I do not believe Caylee's death was an accident.

Are you saying Brandon Snow is Caylee's father? I thought that she had a miscarriage and that was why she broke down at the party?
Yes, it is my opinion that Brandon Snow is the father based on how Casey reacted to seeing him and his physical appearance to Caylee.

I still think this was an accident that got out of hand.
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Old 03-26-2011, 05:29 PM
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DNA shows:
...Casey tried to resusitate Caylee at the pool, the sandbox, the dollhouse....
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