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  #601  
Old 09-25-2010, 11:21 AM
Summersolstice Summersolstice is offline
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Originally Posted by IMO47 View Post
Pat, one of the sisters of the two women sueing Greenhawk has stated that her sister and colleague said the police gave out the wrong location of the car it was indeed infront of the business. The car was not in the condition it was revealed to the public. The first person who saw the car is still employed whereas they are not.

Go to the discussion section on FB if link does not work.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?ui...5879&topic=197
So let's assume for a moment that LE has floated some false information. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened. Sometimes these things are done for a reason. What could that reason be?

Meanwhile, I've started thinking about boots. I've looked up riding boots, army boots and OPP boots. If details about the car are wrong, what about the boots?

Why an equestrian store? I don't see any connection to horses, with the exception of LE on horseback at the scene where SV was found.
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  #602  
Old 09-25-2010, 01:08 PM
Herding Cats Herding Cats is offline
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As an "equestrienne", I frequent several feed/tack shops in my area. Something they regularly stock is boots.

Work boots. With steel toes. Because nothing hurts worse than 1400 pounds of horse standing on your feet. Really. I personally wear Ariat paddock boots, and had my 1300 pound horse step and turn on my right foot. The nail was torn - through the boots - and I eventually lost the nail. The boot itself was just fine. So boots are really important to us horsefolk.

If the car was found behind a feed/tack store, I would be quite interested in seeing who, if anyone, was at work first thing in the morning. Since a lot of what's purchased there are heavy items (hay bales, #50 bags of feed/bedding), I am sure there are some (strong, young) men who work in the 'back area' where these things are stored. Further, there may have been an early delivery of hay, feed, or whatever else.

If I were LE, I'd be looking hard at what invoices or delivery were expected that morning. I would also be checking stock to see if boots had disappeared. And I would also be questioning all employees.

I've read conflicting reports as to this store being a family owned store, as well as a chain store. If it's a family store, it would make sense to investigate the family or whomever had keys. If it's not a family store, it would make sense to investigate the employees.

It would make sense that the bad guy's car was parked in a place where it would cause no suspicion...i.e., it was a known car for the area, which would not make anyone think twice about it. Parking Sonia's car there, or closeby, would allow someone to have their 'get away' ride in a place that there would be no hinky meter triggering if it was seen overnight/early morning...such as a parking lot where deliveries are made before work hours.

I want them to find Sonia's murderer...as I've said before, this hits home in many ways; this tack store involvement is just another element of the 'close to home' factors, seeing as I go to one at least once a week.

Sigh.

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  #603  
Old 09-25-2010, 04:26 PM
Summersolstice Summersolstice is offline
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Originally Posted by Herding Cats View Post
As an "equestrienne", I frequent several feed/tack shops in my area. Something they regularly stock is boots.

Work boots. With steel toes. Because nothing hurts worse than 1400 pounds of horse standing on your feet. Really. I personally wear Ariat paddock boots, and had my 1300 pound horse step and turn on my right foot. The nail was torn - through the boots - and I eventually lost the nail. The boot itself was just fine. So boots are really important to us horsefolk.

If the car was found behind a feed/tack store, I would be quite interested in seeing who, if anyone, was at work first thing in the morning. Since a lot of what's purchased there are heavy items (hay bales, #50 bags of feed/bedding), I am sure there are some (strong, young) men who work in the 'back area' where these things are stored. Further, there may have been an early delivery of hay, feed, or whatever else.

If I were LE, I'd be looking hard at what invoices or delivery were expected that morning. I would also be checking stock to see if boots had disappeared. And I would also be questioning all employees.

I've read conflicting reports as to this store being a family owned store, as well as a chain store. If it's a family store, it would make sense to investigate the family or whomever had keys. If it's not a family store, it would make sense to investigate the employees.

It would make sense that the bad guy's car was parked in a place where it would cause no suspicion...i.e., it was a known car for the area, which would not make anyone think twice about it. Parking Sonia's car there, or closeby, would allow someone to have their 'get away' ride in a place that there would be no hinky meter triggering if it was seen overnight/early morning...such as a parking lot where deliveries are made before work hours.

I want them to find Sonia's murderer...as I've said before, this hits home in many ways; this tack store involvement is just another element of the 'close to home' factors, seeing as I go to one at least once a week.

Sigh.

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Herding Cats
It's a franchise operation, with locations across the country:

http://www.greenhawk.net/cgi-local/S...334+1285477389

Last edited by Summersolstice; 09-25-2010 at 04:52 PM.
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  #604  
Old 09-25-2010, 06:33 PM
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So, I guess the car must not have been found with both doors and trunk open, according to what I see here and at Facebook. Well, either way, it makes sense to me, both doors open for someone to steal the car, or nothing open.

But, if nothing was open, then SOMETHING must have alerted the ladies to phone the police about the car, wherever it was parked.

Why didn't the 1st employee to see the car at Greenhawk call the police? Were they instructed not to? Did the ladies disobey orders directed at them by management? The statements I read by Greenhawk seemed very callous and unprofessional, especially considering the matter at hand. MOO
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Old 09-25-2010, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersolstice View Post
So let's assume for a moment that LE has floated some false information. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened. Sometimes these things are done for a reason. What could that reason be?

Meanwhile, I've started thinking about boots. I've looked up riding boots, army boots and OPP boots. If details about the car are wrong, what about the boots?

Why an equestrian store? I don't see any connection to horses, with the exception of LE on horseback at the scene where SV was found.
Well, SS, that's a good point. What about the boots?

I would think, since LE had those boots to show everyone at the presser, that they are quite certain the perp wore MWW boots.

But, if WindRiver or Dakota was not found worded in the print itself, isn't there a remote possibilty that some knock-off boot could have been similar in print to the MWW brand?
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  #606  
Old 09-25-2010, 06:54 PM
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Are there any horsefarms in the area where Sonia was recovered?

ETA: Here is a list of Ontario Horse Stables.

http://www.ohorse.com/stables/local/...anada/ontario/

Last edited by Wondergirl; 09-25-2010 at 07:02 PM.
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  #607  
Old 09-25-2010, 08:29 PM
katecav katecav is offline
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Question

And the plot thickens check out this link on FB says LE is witholding info.

Pat Hogge is the sister of one of those women from Greenhawk. Read what she has to say.


http://www.facebook.com/#!/topic.php...5879&topic=197
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  #608  
Old 09-25-2010, 08:58 PM
katecav katecav is offline
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Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
Are there any horsefarms in the area where Sonia was recovered?

ETA: Here is a list of Ontario Horse Stables.

http://www.ohorse.com/stables/local/...anada/ontario/
WAY too many to mention plus a place where a lot of equestrian events are held. Caledon and Orangeville have a ton of horse farms.
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:42 PM
rudie rudie is offline
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Originally Posted by katecav View Post
And the plot thickens check out this link on FB says LE is witholding info.

Pat Hogge is the sister of one of those women from Greenhawk. Read what she has to say.


http://www.facebook.com/#!/topic.php...5879&topic=197
If LE witholding information means not jeopordizing the investigation, I have no problem with it. I am privey to some information from my family member involved in this case, but will not share it in this forum as I do not want to jeopordize the solving of this horrible crime.
This killer WILL be caught. I don't want to see everyone going down rabbit trails with all the speculation about Greenhawk. This just diverts the attention from the real case.
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  #610  
Old 09-26-2010, 06:56 AM
katecav katecav is offline
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Originally Posted by rudie View Post
If LE witholding information means not jeopordizing the investigation, I have no problem with it. I am privey to some information from my family member involved in this case, but will not share it in this forum as I do not want to jeopordize the solving of this horrible crime.
This killer WILL be caught. I don't want to see everyone going down rabbit trails with all the speculation about Greenhawk. This just diverts the attention from the real case.
I agree I'm just wondering though if LE has a plan why is an arrest taking so long?
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  #611  
Old 09-26-2010, 07:06 AM
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Here's the info on the release of Sonia's body.


http://www.torontosun.com/news/canad.../15480406.html
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  #612  
Old 09-26-2010, 08:06 AM
rudie rudie is offline
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I agree I'm just wondering though if LE has a plan why is an arrest taking so long?
Me too
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  #613  
Old 09-26-2010, 08:54 AM
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I want them to arrest someone quickly, as in yesterday, but I want them to do it correctly so there is no chance of this slime getting off on a technicality. I would imagine a lot goes into an arrest of a murder suspect; it certainly isn't like its portrayed on TV.
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  #614  
Old 09-26-2010, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
So, I guess the car must not have been found with both doors and trunk open, according to what I see here and at Facebook. Well, either way, it makes sense to me, both doors open for someone to steal the car, or nothing open.

But, if nothing was open, then SOMETHING must have alerted the ladies to phone the police about the car, wherever it was parked.

Why didn't the 1st employee to see the car at Greenhawk call the police? Were they instructed not to? Did the ladies disobey orders directed at them by management? The statements I read by Greenhawk seemed very callous and unprofessional, especially considering the matter at hand. MOO
Well maybe it wasn't found with the doors and trunk open so the first employee didn't really notice anything amiss. The other two might have noticed the blood on the back and that it had been in a customer parking lot for at least over an hour and the customer wasn't in their store. Why did they go to that back parking lot an hour after the store opened anyway? Or did they both show up to work together at that time?

If all the media got were the pictures that we've seen, they may have been the ones to jump to all the conclusions. The tape and the police vehicle behind the town hall would certainly appear as though the car was there. And if they got pictures of the car with the doors and trunk open, perhaps they made the assumption that it was found that way.

Since LE are keeping everything so close to the vest, it doesn't hurt them for there to be false information in the media. Any tips that they may get regarding false location or the state of the car can be discounted IYKWIM.

MOO
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  #615  
Old 09-26-2010, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
Well maybe it wasn't found with the doors and trunk open so the first employee didn't really notice anything amiss. The other two might have noticed the blood on the back and that it had been in a customer parking lot for at least over an hour and the customer wasn't in their store. Why did they go to that back parking lot an hour after the store opened anyway? Or did they both show up to work together at that time?

If all the media got were the pictures that we've seen, they may have been the ones to jump to all the conclusions. The tape and the police vehicle behind the town hall would certainly appear as though the car was there. And if they got pictures of the car with the doors and trunk open, perhaps they made the assumption that it was found that way.

Since LE are keeping everything so close to the vest, it doesn't hurt them for there to be false information in the media. Any tips that they may get regarding false location or the state of the car can be discounted IYKWIM.

MOO
[bbm]

The articles state that the first employee arrived an hour prior to those two women and noticed the car but did not call the police. When the two women arrived, the first employee told them about the car and they went out to check it out, then called police (presumably when they saw blood but that is just my assumption).
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by KAE View Post
Based on the photos of Sonia's car from this link:

http://www.orangeville.com/news/loca...wn-orangeville


This is my best guess of it's location:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...d1be3b84c5c24f

Have a look and let me know what you think.
(The Street View images from this area are very good.)
bumping up Kae's post
really good google street views here of Greenhawk and the health unit next door
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  #617  
Old 09-26-2010, 01:01 PM
Summersolstice Summersolstice is offline
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Originally Posted by rudie View Post
If LE witholding information means not jeopordizing the investigation, I have no problem with it. I am privey to some information from my family member involved in this case, but will not share it in this forum as I do not want to jeopordize the solving of this horrible crime.
This killer WILL be caught. I don't want to see everyone going down rabbit trails with all the speculation about Greenhawk. This just diverts the attention from the real case.
Certainly LE has left the door open for speculation by making the connection with boots, and riding boots being a logical connection to the (misleading information about the) location of the car.
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  #618  
Old 09-26-2010, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by katecav View Post
And the plot thickens check out this link on FB says LE is witholding info.

Pat Hogge is the sister of one of those women from Greenhawk. Read what she has to say.


http://www.facebook.com/#!/topic.php...5879&topic=197
I find it difficult to believe these two women have their motivations rooted in honorability. Pat Hogge posts: 'Neither women wish to cause any distress to the family of Sonia Varaschin. '

If they really don't want to cause distress, instruct Pat Hogge to keep her mouth shut as the police have asked. These two women, through Pat Hogge's postings may have already compromised the investigation by posting what she has. These women get interviewed by police, are asked to keep it to themselves, at least one of them blabs to her sister who posts it on Facebook. If the investigation goes pear shaped because of this, it would reflect negatively on Greenhawk. How is this for a headline:
Greenhawk Employees Foil Police Efforts!
I'd fire them too. Morons.

Last edited by abberline; 09-26-2010 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:13 PM
Bratislava Bratislava is offline
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Interesting. So what was Sonia's connection to horseback riding, if any?
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  #620  
Old 09-26-2010, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyL View Post
bumping up Kae's post
really good google street views here of Greenhawk and the health unit next door

I couldnt find Kae's post to quote about the street views compared to the newspapers photo of the crime scene. I thought that is matched also but there are a few things that I see that are different. I photoshoped the 2 photos and added arrows to show what i believe to be different.

Anyone else see it?




to me her car looks to be in the middle parking space since there is a car to the left and looking where the 1st car is it appears to be at the edge of the building without a space beside it


Starting on the left and the arrow pointing up. - it looks like traffic is moving the same direction and her car, as i can see what looks to be a yellow line down the middle of the road? and looking at the street view it looks to be a parking lot on the left?

The top arrow pointing right - What is that? It looks like a tree branch with a bit of follage under it towards the edge of the photo? In the street view no tree is close ( Yes i know it could be a older street view but looking at it, its all concret anywhere near the building.

the bottom arrow pointing right - also green follage but no way that it could be in the street view as its all concret.


Am i out to lunch ??????
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  #621  
Old 09-26-2010, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by myzzy View Post
I couldnt find Kae's post to quote about the street views compared to the newspapers photo of the crime scene. I thought that is matched also but there are a few things that I see that are different. I photoshoped the 2 photos and added arrows to show what i believe to be different.

Anyone else see it?




to me her car looks to be in the middle parking space since there is a car to the left and looking where the 1st car is it appears to be at the edge of the building without a space beside it


Starting on the left and the arrow pointing up. - it looks like traffic is moving the same direction and her car, as i can see what looks to be a yellow line down the middle of the road? and looking at the street view it looks to be a parking lot on the left?

The top arrow pointing right - What is that? It looks like a tree branch with a bit of follage under it towards the edge of the photo? In the street view no tree is close ( Yes i know it could be a older street view but looking at it, its all concret anywhere near the building.

the bottom arrow pointing right - also green follage but no way that it could be in the street view as its all concret.


Am i out to lunch ??????
Wow, that is interesting, thanks for posting that Myzzy.

I am not sure on the date of the Google earth view, but the areas you have pointed out, certainly seem to have discrepancies.

Maybe a local can shed some light?

Also, I wonder whose car is next to Sonia's, and when they parked it there, etc.?
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  #622  
Old 09-26-2010, 05:16 PM
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Also, with regards to all the discussion on pictures, in the Victoria Stafford case, LE released a picture of the accused's vehicle, accompanied by an article that said it was at the Home Depot. Locals were quick to point out, that the picture was taken at a gas station in a completely different city.

LE has their reasons for allowing the public to think certain things, and as long as it aids in their investigation, it's just fine by me.
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  #623  
Old 09-26-2010, 05:20 PM
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LE is not releasing a cause of death, even to the family.

It seems to be more and more common, and obviously must be a tool to aid in the investigation.

Her younger brother, Viv, said his sister's body was released Thursday, but no cause of death has been given by police.

"They haven't said anything to us," he said Saturday night.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canad.../15480406.html
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  #624  
Old 09-26-2010, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzzy View Post
I couldnt find Kae's post to quote about the street views compared to the newspapers photo of the crime scene. I thought that is matched also but there are a few things that I see that are different. I photoshoped the 2 photos and added arrows to show what i believe to be different.

Anyone else see it?




to me her car looks to be in the middle parking space since there is a car to the left and looking where the 1st car is it appears to be at the edge of the building without a space beside it


Starting on the left and the arrow pointing up. - it looks like traffic is moving the same direction and her car, as i can see what looks to be a yellow line down the middle of the road? and looking at the street view it looks to be a parking lot on the left?

The top arrow pointing right - What is that? It looks like a tree branch with a bit of follage under it towards the edge of the photo? In the street view no tree is close ( Yes i know it could be a older street view but looking at it, its all concret anywhere near the building.

the bottom arrow pointing right - also green follage but no way that it could be in the street view as its all concret.


Am i out to lunch ??????
I think the pictures of the car are subject to the angle and zoom of the camera. Here are a couple more pictures that were released. All three were taken by different people, and all three appear as though the car is in a different place so you can see where the confusion can happen...





In the second one you can see a marked distance between Sonia's car and the other one parked there. Also the distance between her car and the grassy area.
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  #625  
Old 09-26-2010, 07:53 PM
missbrooks missbrooks is offline
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I was at the site where Sonia's car was found last weekend and to me it is definitely the site in the pictures. The area to the left is another parking lot, the vehicle that you see is not moving on the street, it is parked. In fact, now that I look at both pictures, I think that that is the same vehicle in each picture.

Also if you look at the right of the arrow pointing up, you will see there is a metal pole where the police wrapped the police tape around. If you look at the picture showing the green box at the left parking space, you can see that same pole.
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