2010.06.13 Kyron's case turns to Criminal investigation-Why?

[BetteDavisEyes]

Originally Posted by passionflower

Since DeDe's X BF Jason Wishert and family are involved in the Mexican orphange, could this be where they handed KYRON off? Could this be info DeDe would know? and why DY and KH have hopes of getting KYRON back soon????
http://www.friendsofpimpollo.org/
Just brain storming.........

I read about JW's child-advocacy activities and this Mexican orphanage when the info about this guy first emerged. I figured that, by the time we were hearing about JW, LE had already investigated these entities and found no connection to Kyron.

I have to say, though, that the name of the Mexican town - Pimpollo - didn't sound quite right to me...if you get my drift

[Cajun Girl]

According to Jamie in the Oregon Live, TMH was scheduled to take another polygraph on June 19th. (Saturday)

Now, I do not know if this is TMH actual 2cnd poly or 3rd as she walked out of one them and it took the family at least 9 or 10 days to agree to take a poly.

Hope this helps someone, cuz my head is spinning.

[Billylee]

Originally Posted by STEADFAST

The article came out July 9, not June 9. (So, after the RO, after Terri's friend spilled the beans about the failed polygraphs.)

Sorry, my bad. I'm not having such a good morning, just one of those days, exploding light bulbs, broken vases, you get the picture. I'll go way now. (tucks tail)

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by SurfieTX

Bean, do you remember the article where Kaine stated that LE had searched the house and the computer(s)? I remember it sorta because it was kind of confusing the way it was written as LE apparently did not search DY's and TY's house (or something to that effect).

Originally Posted by BeanE

I remember the video interview where he talks about it and Desiree says they haven't needed to search her house.

I can't remember the interview date though.

Apologies for quoting myself. I found the interview by accident.

From KPTV's transcript. Link to video on the same page as link below.

Reporter: Detectives have told us many times that in this case they're leaving no stone unturned. Have they searched your homes, your cars and your property?

Desiree Young: They haven't needed to search our house as of yet. But they're welcome to. Anything that they need to do, we're definitely letting them do.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24037975/detail.html

[SurfieTX]

http://www.kptv.com/news/24037975/detail.html

Reporter: Kaine, can you talk about your property?

Kaine Horman: Yeah, they've been down to search many times and they're welcome to search many more times. Whatever it takes to find him.

Reporter: Actually in the house, as well?

Kaine Horman: Yes.

~~~~~

I'm doing my afternoon thinkin'. This is from June 25, 2010. Well, well, wait just one minute....this is the day before Kaine moves out. See this part:

~~~~~

Reporter: Also, in an unusual move, they put out this flier to anyone associated with Kyron's school. They put Terri's pictures and pictures of the white truck on it. What was your reaction when that happened? What was Terri's reaction?

Kaine Horman: I can't speak to Terri's reaction, but my reaction to it -- photos of the things that were last seen associated with him that day. Through the process we've gone through, we've been asked the same question dozens of times. In a lot of cases, when you change the frame of reference, you think of new things and new angles that you haven't thought of before. From my perspective, issuing that questionnaire is just another way to get another angle or perspective from people who were at the school that day -- and hopefully, more data points and leads that perhaps they didn't think of the first time through when they were interviewed by the detectives and investigators at the school. I actually view it as a very positive step.

Reporter: Police have said they don't have any suspects yet or persons of interest. Did you feel like that flier being out with your wife's pictures on it painted her as a suspect at all?

Kaine Horman: No. She was one of the last people who saw him that day. It just helped associate things that were seen along with him on that particular day, so no.

~~~~~

BBM - Hmm...That's kind of contradictory.

How long does it take for the FBI to do computer forensics? Does anyone know from previous cases? The FBI was called in immediately and IIRC, the BAU was called in on the 9th.

~~~~~

http://www.kxl.com/EXCLUSIVE-AUDIO--...om-Ter/7620648

This call-in was on July 5, 2010. So, apparently, this landscaper was contacted by LE ?the week prior? to the July 4, 2010, weekend. So, end of June, perhaps before the flier and the presser and the failed sting?

[STEADFAST]

Originally Posted by Billylee

Sorry, my bad. I'm not having such a good morning, just one of those days, exploding light bulbs, broken vases, you get the picture. I'll go way now. (tucks tail)

I could have made that mistake on a normal morning! Well, it would have sure been interesting if we had found that quote coming out on June 9.
Don't go away!

[STEADFAST]

Originally Posted by BeanE

I don't recall any of Terri's friends saying that Terri failed any polys. I do recall Jaymie Finster saying Terri was going to take a 2nd poly.

Which friend said Terri failed a poly?

You're right, JF didn't say Terri failed a poly. However, she did say of Terri, "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything." http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...lton_horm.html

I choose to interpret that as she failed the first one, as I don't see them asking people to pass repeatedly. However, I see that there is wiggle room for someone to interpret that as Terri passing a polygraph and yet being asked to take another one

Before this interview with JF, the public knew nothing of polygraphs being taken by any members of the family. (And the post I was responding to mistakenly had the information that Desiree was talking about Terri failing a polygraph as early as June 9, so the point was that the polygraph information first came from JF not Desiree.)

[SurfieTX]

Okay...whoo. I want to get this straight.

The flier with TH went out on Friday, June 18, 2010.

The second poly was scheduled for June 19, 2010.

The interview with Kaine and Desiree sans Terri was on June 25, 2010 (which was the day before Kaine moved out).

The sting was on June 26, 2010 and Kaine moved out with baby K.

DeDe started staying with TH on June 28, 2010.

TH hires an attorney on June 30, 2010.

The call-in interview with the ancillary landscaper from ServiceMagic was on July 5, 2010.

The last poly reported failure by Finster was on July 9, 2010.

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by SurfieTX

Okay...whoo. I want to get this straight.

The flier with TH went out on Friday, June 18, 2010.

The second poly was scheduled for June 19, 2010.

The interview with Kaine and Desiree sans Terri was on June 25, 2010 (which was the day before Kaine moved out).

The sting was on June 26, 2010 and Kaine moved out with baby K.

DeDe started staying with TH on June 28, 2010.

TH hires an attorney on June 30, 2010.

The call-in interview with the ancillary landscaper from ServiceMagic was on July 5, 2010.

The last poly reported failure by Finster was on July 9, 2010.

The poly on the 19th may have been the third poly.

Finster didn't report any poly failures, only that Terri was taking another one.

You could add M Cook on the 30th starting the sexting.

But I thought we were looking at the timeframe prior to June 13?

[SurfieTX]

Originally Posted by BeanE

The poly on the 19th may have been the third poly.

Finster didn't report any poly failures, only that Terri was taking another one.

You could add M Cook on the 30th starting the sexting.

But I thought we were looking at the timeframe prior to June 13?

LOL! We were, and then my brain went haywire with the dates. I like to see the facts/dates as they are. MC is a good one to add too, along with when mom and dad moved in. I need to go back and refer to the reference forum and add/glean stuff from there. It is chock full of factual goodness.

[STEADFAST]

Originally Posted by BeanE

The poly on the 19th may have been the third poly.

Finster didn't report any poly failures, only that Terri was taking another one.

You could add M Cook on the 30th starting the sexting.

But I thought we were looking at the timeframe prior to June 13?

I think Terri's failed (IMO) polygraph was probably taken before June 13th. What day was it that Gates cried at the PC? IIRC, you have posted that that was the same day that Terri allegedly failed her first polygraph.

Apparently, Finster was under the impression that the polygraph that Terri didn't want to take was her second one. "After taking one polygraph test, Finster said, Horman is taking another one Saturday and 'she's not very happy about it.'" http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...lton_horm.html

Isn't the July 19th poly the one she walked out of?

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by STEADFAST

I think Terri's failed (IMO) polygraph was probably taken before June 13th. What day was it that Gates cried at the PC? IIRC, you have posted that that was the same day that Terri allegedly failed her first polygraph.

Apparently, Finster was under the impression that the polygraph that Terri didn't want to take was her second one. "After taking one polygraph test, Finster said, Horman is taking another one Saturday and 'she's not very happy about it.'" http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...lton_horm.html

Isn't the July 19th poly the one she walked out of?

June 7 was her first, the day Gates cried.

See, I thought the 3rd one was June 26th, but then I found some indications that it was actually the 19th, and that the second was earlier. I think some people in the case are calling the 3rd one the 2nd one because she didn't actually take the 2nd one - she walked out.

I just haven't been able to find anything yet to resolve it and confirm the dates. It's making me crazy. I still have a few Kaine/Desiree interviews to listen to again that might help firm it up, but meantime, the best date for the 2nd one I can come up with is around June 9th. I really think it was the latter half of that week, but I have nothing except somewhat vague references from Kaine right now, like I said, nothing solid yet.

I'll post about the whole thing after I listen to the other interviews and see what's there, so I can get feedback on what people think the dates most likely are based on what I've found.

I really shouldn't have mentioned it at all until I was finished, because all I've done is confuse things more lol. But since we're talking about the timeframe of just before the 13th, I thought I bring up that the 2nd poly may have been in there.

Sorry. I really didn't mean to confuse things.

[STEADFAST]

Originally Posted by BeanE

June 7 was her first, the day Gates cried.

See, I thought the 3rd one was June 26th, but then I found some indications that it was actually the 19th, and that the second was earlier. I think some people in the case are calling the 3rd one the 2nd one because she didn't actually take the 2nd one - she walked out.

I just haven't been able to find anything yet to resolve it and confirm the dates. It's making me crazy. I still have a few Kaine/Desiree interviews to listen to again that might help firm it up, but meantime, the best date for the 2nd one I can come up with is around June 9th. I really think it was the latter half of that week, but I have nothing except somewhat vague references from Kaine right now, like I said, nothing solid yet.

I'll post about the whole thing after I listen to the other interviews and see what's there, so I can get feedback on what people think the dates most likely are based on what I've found.

I really shouldn't have mentioned it at all until I was finished, because all I've done is confuse things more lol. But since we're talking about the timeframe of just before the 13th, I thought I bring up that the 2nd poly may have been in there.

Sorry. I really didn't mean to confuse things.

It's very possible that Terri didn't mention the 2nd poly to Finster, so that may be why Finster's input doesn't correlate -- she thought Terri was about to take a second polygraph on the 19th, when Terri was really taking a third polygraph then. It would definitely make sense that Terri would have been re-polygraphed (for whatever reason ) at rather short intervals, instead of waiting a couple of weeks between polys.

[BeanE]

The 1st poly was June 7. (25 minute interview with the Oregonian on audio)

The 2nd poly was 2 or 3 days after the first. (Link below). June 9 or June 10.

The 3rd poly was about 10 days later. (Link below). That would be June 19 or June 20. So what Jaymie Finster is calling the second poly on June 19, is, as I've been suspecting, actually the third poly.

This is one of the audio clips from the interviews of Kaine and Desiree with Willamette Week:

http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/07/09/polygraph.mp3

Phew! That one took me weeks to pin down. Sorry about the previous confusion.

But... now the second poly definitely falls in the timeframe we're looking at, just prior to June 13th when Kyron's case was declared a criminal investigation. There may have been some influence from her walking out on this 2nd poly to the decision to go with a criminal investigation.

[Billylee]

Good job BeanE, you are never confusing, you always keep us straight and thank you for that!

[eyes4crime]

Originally Posted by BeanE

The 1st poly was June 7. (25 minute interview with the Oregonian on audio)

The 2nd poly was 2 or 3 days after the first. (Link below). June 9 or June 10.

The 3rd poly was about 10 days later. (Link below). That would be June 19 or June 20. So what Jaymie Finster is calling the second poly on June 19, is, as I've been suspecting, actually the third poly.

This is one of the audio clips from the interviews of Kaine and Desiree with Willamette Week:

http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/07/09/polygraph.mp3

Phew! That one took me weeks to pin down. Sorry about the previous confusion.

But... now the second poly definitely falls in the timeframe we're looking at, just prior to June 13th when Kyron's case was declared a criminal investigation. There may have been some influence from her walking out on this 2nd poly to the decision to go with a criminal investigation.

Thank you so much for getting that straight for us -

[oceanblueeyes]

I think it was based on logic. They had already been in touch with experts to determine how long Kyron could survive if he had walked off in the woods somewhere and had become lost.

After over a week of searching and not finding Kyron in the surrounding area, they had no other alternative, except to believe that someone had taken Kyron away from the school, and was keeping him from his family.

IMO

[wondering1]

Originally Posted by BeanE

The 1st poly was June 7. (25 minute interview with the Oregonian on audio)

The 2nd poly was 2 or 3 days after the first. (Link below). June 9 or June 10.

The 3rd poly was about 10 days later. (Link below). That would be June 19 or June 20. So what Jaymie Finster is calling the second poly on June 19, is, as I've been suspecting, actually the third poly.

This is one of the audio clips from the interviews of Kaine and Desiree with Willamette Week:

http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/07/09/polygraph.mp3

Phew! That one took me weeks to pin down. Sorry about the previous confusion.

But... now the second poly definitely falls in the timeframe we're looking at, just prior to June 13th when Kyron's case was declared a criminal investigation. There may have been some influence from her walking out on this 2nd poly to the decision to go with a criminal investigation.

thanks beane. I'd been under the impression that the 3rd poly was on the weekend KH moved out. I'm sure I got that idea from MSM or WS or both. In your *travels* have you found where that (my misconception) came from?

[gwenabob]

Originally Posted by wondering1

thanks beane. I'd been under the impression that the 3rd poly was on the weekend KH moved out. I'm sure I got that idea from MSM or WS or both. In your *travels* have you found where that (my misconception) came from?

Not to speak for BeanE, but I do recall that TH was at a meeting with LE on the Saturday afternoon that Kaine and the baby moved out. She came home from that meeting and the MFH sting happened right after that.

Maybe you are thinking of that meeting?

[sorrell skye]

Originally Posted by gwenabob

Not to speak for BeanE, but I do recall that TH was at a meeting with LE on the Saturday afternoon that Kaine and the baby moved out. She came home from that meeting and the MFH sting happened right after that.

Maybe you are thinking of that meeting?

I seem to remember that, as well, Gwen.

[wondering1]

Originally Posted by gwenabob

Not to speak for BeanE, but I do recall that TH was at a meeting with LE on the Saturday afternoon that Kaine and the baby moved out. She came home from that meeting and the MFH sting happened right after that.

Maybe you are thinking of that meeting?

Thank you! Yes, it must have been the *meeting*. Wonder what that was about...

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by wondering1

thanks beane. I'd been under the impression that the 3rd poly was on the weekend KH moved out. I'm sure I got that idea from MSM or WS or both. In your *travels* have you found where that (my misconception) came from?

Yes, reporters stating as fact that the 3rd poly was on the day Kaine moved out. And they may have actually picked that up from Kaine. He has an interview in which he talks about both the 3rd poly and moving out in the same interview, and close together, and you do get the impression that he means they were on the same day.

But back when I was in the process of trying to determine where the myth about Kaine saying Terri failed 2 polys came from, I saw the articles in which Finster said Terri was taking taking a 2nd poly on the 19th, then that she didn't know if Terri had. Which made it look like Terri had put it off until the 26th when Kaine left. Except I noticed there was nothing specifying when the 2nd (the real 2nd) one had happened.

Somewhere in there I got the idea that the 3rd poly was being referred to as the 2nd, which really is correct - the 2nd poly wasn't a poly - Terri walked out and didn't take it.

So I just started tracking and trying to find out a definitive date or timeframe for both the 2nd and the 3rd poly. Came across one interview in which Kaine says Terri put off a poly, and figured that one had to be the 3rd.

It was driving me crazy so I put it on hold until this thread came up, and I realized the date of that 2nd poly really was important for reference, so as I've been collecting the interviews for the thread in the reference forum, I've been watching/listening to try to pick up what I could, and happened on to the Willamette Week clip today.

Needles in haystacks. I love 'em. Well... I love the needles. The haystacks - not so much.

[craftybatchy]

Apologies if this is too o/t but .....

The public is not privy to questions asked during a polygraph session. We can wager an educated, well informed guess but we must acknowledge that we can only assume so far. Nor can we assume that Desiree, Tony, Kaine, and Terri were asked the same questions.

Now, just for arguments sake, lets pretend that LE asked Terri something like .....

Mrs. Horman, do you have reason to believe that your husband has knowledge of Kyrons whereabouts ?

What if she answered No. BUT (big but here, I know, but humor me) what if behind that No there was uncertainty, a nagging doubt in the back of her mind. That could have shown on the poly as an indication of deception. We do not know what question gave indicators of deception.

I guess what I am trying to say is bringing her in for a repeat poly does not automatically mean that she incriminated herself during a previous exam. It is always possible that she was trying to protect someone else and failed miserably.

[BeanE]

Just came across this. Posting for reference:

"At this point, it hasn't reached the level that we are looking at this as a crime."

LE (Staton), June 11

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/...eref=rss_crime