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JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


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  #126  
Old 10-02-2010, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Just the important ones, like cord and tape. Pens, paper, blankets can be expected in every house. Thats why you can't find any evidence of ownership of cord or tape.
Uh...yeah, they did find evidence of cord and tape--on the body of a six year old.

The duct tape had Patsy's clothing fibers on it, as well. Patsy's paintbrush was tied into the cord, along with fibers from her clothes and JonBenet's hair.

If you can't think of a way a Ramsey might have gotten a small roll of cord and duct tape out of the house in the 8 or so hours they were in the house alone or when they left it without being searched, you're way in over your head with this case.

For instance, just where did John Ramsey go when he decided to "walk" at the Fernie's that night into their neighborhood, without LE? Gosh, he sure wasn't concerned about that foreign faction then, was he?
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  #127  
Old 10-02-2010, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Not familiar with? Who says?
oh sure,a KD had visited the house before...not.
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When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
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  #128  
Old 10-02-2010, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by KoldKase View Post
Uh...yeah, they did find evidence of cord and tape--on the body of a six year old.
Thats not evidence of ownership. Do you understand the concept of ownership? Neither of the R's owned the tape or the cord.
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  #129  
Old 10-02-2010, 01:41 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
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oh sure,a KD had visited the house before...not.
They were there for hours and hours that day.
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  #130  
Old 10-02-2010, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Just the important ones, like cord and tape. Pens, paper, blankets can be expected in every house. Thats why you can't find any evidence of ownership of cord or tape.
Thank goodness they were very tidy kidnappers! Not many kidnappers would take the time to borrow a pen and pad to write a ransom note, put the cap back on the pen and put it right back where it came from. Plus, they very nicely returned the tablet to the hall table. And let's not forget that after they removed the grate from the basement window and climbed in, they thoughtfully replaced the grate to it's original position. Feeding JBR some of her favorite pineapple was so very sweet of them to do before they took her to the basement. They must have simply forgotten to put the pineapple bowl and tea glass in the dishwasher. Yes, tidy they were indeed, taking the precious time to wipe JBR off, change her underwear and redress her. What caring kidnappers they must have been to search for a blanket to carefully wrap JBR in when they left her. I could go on and on, but its making me too sick to my stomach as I write this, thinking that some people think this all really happened.
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  #131  
Old 10-02-2010, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
They were there for hours and hours that day.
well like you say..who says??
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When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:54-57
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  #132  
Old 10-02-2010, 09:28 AM
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Oh Lordie! LOL - I have finally reached a place where I can Laugh at Team Ramsey All Thanks to HoldontoyourHat! If that's all that you are reduced to come up with to Spin, it's only more proof that the posters that support JonBenet have done a Fantastic Job of knocking away myths from people that Enable the Ramseys!

According to your former Leader...your Intruder was too busy holding on to something other than his hat or dryer door, try that Velvet Glove on for Size, Buddy

Q8 ~
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  #133  
Old 10-02-2010, 10:53 AM
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Thank goodness they were very tidy kidnappers! Not many kidnappers would take the time to borrow a pen and pad to write a ransom note, put the cap back on the pen and put it right back where it came from. Plus, they very nicely returned the tablet to the hall table. And let's not forget that after they removed the grate from the basement window and climbed in, they thoughtfully replaced the grate to it's original position. Feeding JBR some of her favorite pineapple was so very sweet of them to do before they took her to the basement. They must have simply forgotten to put the pineapple bowl and tea glass in the dishwasher. Yes, tidy they were indeed, taking the precious time to wipe JBR off, change her underwear and redress her. What caring kidnappers they must have been to search for a blanket to carefully wrap JBR in when they left her. I could go on and on, but its making me too sick to my stomach as I write this, thinking that some people think this all really happened.
its always nice how RDI chooses to characterize these events as if its all factually known, put it in some ridiculous context, and then blame IDI as if we came up with it. Thats just too funny.

You're making yourself sick with YOUR OWN characterization, not mine, based on what you think you know but really don't. This is true because your sources are hearsay: the tabloids and books written clearly before all the facts were in.

I'm told by several not over-the-edge RDI that the DNA "could" belong to an intruder. DNA is very important evidence in any crime, therefore the opinions you cling to so much are largely obsolete because they were formed before important evidence was known.
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  #134  
Old 10-02-2010, 11:07 AM
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the DNA may be a very important clue but i would be more swayed by just the DNA alone if it was either a seamen,blood or saliva sample than touch .
If i understand correctly the origanal samples had to be manipulated using modern technics to get a vaiable number of markers i would love to see an offical list of chain of evidence on the long johns.
if the DNA at the time had been taken and had a full profile i would believe that someone other than a ramsey was the main person involved but there are just to much unanswered problems with the DNA for it to be the be all and end all.
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  #135  
Old 10-02-2010, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KoldKase View Post
It's hard to believe, but it's so common. Other reasons the mother blames the child are: its easier to put the blame on a defenseless child because blaming the PERV means having to deal with the fact that you're married to a him and what to do about that; if it's an older sibling--the highest percentage of child molesters, believing the victim is at least part of the problem gives the older child a chance to be redeemed; if it's the victim's fault, the parent thinks it is a behavior issue which only requires parental discipline and nothing more, because bringing LE into it means extreme shame and possibly breaking up the family, not easy under any circumstances; if the PERV is the breadwinner, it's even more difficult because losing financial support can be devastating, as well.

But the hardest to fathom is when the mother gets jealous of her own daughter, who is the victim. Makes you want to puke to think about it.
another scenario is utter and complete denial, the child is lying, making it all up. Perhaps that's why Patsy kept taking her to the pediatrician. If the doctor didn't say so, it was more conformation that it never happened. Maybe she discovered the truth and became enraged. or maybe not...just guessing.
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  #136  
Old 10-02-2010, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
No, just kidnappers looking for a blanket to conceal a small child. Duh.

I would think the suitcase would have been perfect. But, let's face it. It was NEVER a kidnapping! It was never an intruder bent on molesting her either.

It was about COVERING UP a murder that night.

Why exit out the basement window? lol Coulda walked right out any door. It's not like the murderer wasn't comfortable in the house, didn't already spend time in the kitchen, JonBenet's room and going up and down the steps. Seems ridiculous not to exit out the door.

Unless of course the killer never left.
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  #137  
Old 10-02-2010, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Unless they were looking for stuff. Like paintbrushes, pen, paper, clothes, blanket, and so on.

But yet remembered gloves and apparently full cleanroom jumpsuit....yet forgot the target, JonBenet.
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Old 10-02-2010, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
its always nice how RDI chooses to characterize these events as if its all factually known, put it in some ridiculous context, and then blame IDI as if we came up with it. Thats just too funny.

You're making yourself sick with YOUR OWN characterization, not mine, based on what you think you know but really don't. This is true because your sources are hearsay: the tabloids and books written clearly before all the facts were in.

I'm told by several not over-the-edge RDI that the DNA "could" belong to an intruder. DNA is very important evidence in any crime, therefore the opinions you cling to so much are largely obsolete because they were formed before important evidence was known.

Then test the rope and paintbrush handle. I've always said, if they don't find Ramsey DNA on it and they do find matching "intruder" DNA I'll shut up forever.
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  #139  
Old 10-02-2010, 01:06 PM
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What is so hard about opening a dryer door? They were in there for hours--you don't think they'd get curious about what was in the dryer?
I'm gonna take this bait and run with this one. No, I don't think that if IDI and there was some intruder in the house, he would have an overwhelming urge to investigate the contents of the Ramsey's dryer. I can't come up with a reason why a burglar, rapist, murderer, child molester would feel compelled to examine his victims' laundry. People don't wash blankets everyday. There was a far greater chance of finding a bunch of socks or blue jeans in there than his victim's favorite blanket. If he wanted a blanket and because he was so comfortable strolling about the Ramsey home, eating pineapple, writing ransom notes, going up and down staircases, he could have simply gotten one from the bedroom upstairs.

As an aside, because I think the likelihood of a burglar's checking my dryer, I have actually hidden valuables in amongst a dried load of towels in my dryer when I went away for a long weekend.
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Old 10-02-2010, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Thats not evidence of ownership. Do you understand the concept of ownership? Neither of the R's owned the tape or the cord.
MY BOLD

That's their story, & they're stickin' to it!
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  #141  
Old 10-02-2010, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
its always nice how RDI chooses to characterize these events as if its all factually known, put it in some ridiculous context, and then blame IDI as if we came up with it. Thats just too funny.

You're making yourself sick with YOUR OWN characterization, not mine, based on what you think you know but really don't. This is true because your sources are hearsay: the tabloids and books written clearly before all the facts were in.

I'm told by several not over-the-edge RDI that the DNA "could" belong to an intruder. DNA is very important evidence in any crime, therefore the opinions you cling to so much are largely obsolete because they were formed before important evidence was known.
I'm not blaming IDI as if they came up with all of this. I just don't understand how it can be believed that an intruder/kidnapper did all of the things that I listed. It appears that you won't believe that any of what I listed actually happened until you see a report on it, but several things did happen that we know are factual and not hearsay:
She was wrapped in a blanket.
She was wiped off and redressed.
The window grate was put back in place.
There was a bowl of pineapple and a glass from tea on the table and she did have pineapple in her at autopsy.
The pad was given to LE from the hall table.

Would you agree that we know these to be true and factual?

I am one of the RDI's that have said that there is a chance that there was an intruder. Until we find the killer then noone knows 100% who did it. You can't say 100% that it was IDI and I can't say 100% that it was RDI. The touch DNA cannot be dated, so until a match is made then noone has been excluded as far as I am concerned. You on the otherhand choose to believe that the DNA is 100% proof of IDI and refuse to take into consideration any things that we RDI just can't believe that an IDI would have done that night. Any proof offered is considered hearsay or not factual. Well, thats what I consider the DNA to be hearsay and not factual. Until a match is made then the touch DNA means nothing to me.
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  #142  
Old 10-02-2010, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Thats not evidence of ownership. Do you understand the concept of ownership? Neither of the R's owned the tape or the cord.
How do you know neither of the R's owned the tape or cord? Do you understand the concept of speculation? You don't know what the Ramseys owned.

Use a little common sense, please. Just because someone says something does not make it true or a fact of evidence. Do you really believe people don't lie to LE all the time, especially ones who are hiding something? The Ramseys lied to LE so many times, assuming they told the truth about the critical evidence found on the body is wishful thinking. EPIC FAIL, hat.

Patsy Ramsey described duct tape down to the "gooey" texture in her 98 LE interview. You can see she had at least one box of cords and ribbons, as well as shelves of crafts items, in the basement crime scene photos. John Ramsey certainly knew what duct tape was, as he offered to lie about Fleet White having black duct tape.

Patsy Ramsey had been on stages her whole life, small and Miss America competition large. Guess what they use to indicate where the talent stops? Black duct tape--it won't show on camera. Guess what they use to secure long cables so people won't trip on them? Duct tape. Guess what beauty contestants have been using for ages to enhance their figures, so much so that you can get many different colors at any hardware store? Duct tape. Guess what you can see in photos of JonBenet hitting her marks on a pageant stage? Black markers.

Dream on, hat, because that's all you're doing. Not finding the rolls of tape or cord does not mean they were never there. It's not like a child that's missing, after all. They found her, right where the stager left her.
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  #143  
Old 10-02-2010, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
its always nice how RDI chooses to characterize these events as if its all factually known, put it in some ridiculous context, and then blame IDI as if we came up with it. Thats just too funny.

You're making yourself sick with YOUR OWN characterization, not mine, based on what you think you know but really don't. This is true because your sources are hearsay: the tabloids and books written clearly before all the facts were in.

I'm told by several not over-the-edge RDI that the DNA "could" belong to an intruder. DNA is very important evidence in any crime, therefore the opinions you cling to so much are largely obsolete because they were formed before important evidence was known.
You know you talk just like maimed, linguistically speaking.

So now you resort to "not over-the-edge RDI" for your proof there was an intruder? You are desperate.

Anyhow, if you think only the evidence fabricated by DNA Lacy and Intruder Smit is important--the DNA it took 10 years to find, it was so minute and such an undetectable quantity, and the non-existent stun gun marks--no wonder you're clueless about this case. You just want to throw out all the evidence that clearly leads to the Ramseys. How predictable of IDIs.

A little warning about listening to maimed: she never met a faux clue she didn't love.
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  #144  
Old 10-02-2010, 01:52 PM
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I lurk on the JBR threads and read frequently. I never post because of the intensity of the IDI/RDI posters who bite if you don't agree with them. It was inspirational to learn that Tricia has followed this case and pushed for justice (for years). I offer my respect and support for her intense persuit of justice.
Don't be afraid to post. Moderators will make sure you aren't personally attacked in response. Most people are real nice even if they disagree with you.
They may dispute facts but everyone here HAS A RIGHT to their opinions and that is never questioned.
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Old 10-02-2010, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
No, just kidnappers looking for a blanket to conceal a small child. Duh.
I thought Lou Smit said the intruder tried to put her into the suitcase--and got duvet fibers in there all over her.

Exactly why wasn't that duvet sufficient to conceal a small child? Maybe he didn't like the color? Clashed with her clothes?

The blanket was hers. How would the intruder know that? Why would he reject the duvet and go looking for a blanket in a dryer?

Just silly.
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:03 PM
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I followed your underwear link to your experiment. I am relieved as I thought what is wrong with that child's legs they are so red and pimply looking. Who would post such a photo. After I went to your bloomies link I had to laugh at myself.
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:22 PM
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If the "intruder" found a duvet in the suitcase, why would they need to look in the dryer for a blanket? Only someone who knew the blanket was in there. IDI understands that all this was done with the parents supposedly sleeping upstairs. Do you understand how long all this would take to accomplish? The pineapple, the assault, the bludgeoning, making the garrote, redressing, looking for a blanket, going to get a doll to put with her body, moving a metal grate while the family was home (entry and exit). Wiping off the flashlight AND batteries (this part just kills me). Etc, etc. This crime could have involved three floors of a 4-story house, JB's room/bathroom, the kitchen/dining area (where the pineapple, spoon. bowl and tissue box and flashlight were found) and the basement. All this while parents who may not have even been asleep are home. And a brother, too.
NO intruder who has just sexually assaulted and killed a child would feel the need to cover up the child's body and place dolls or a nightie near it. They would simply get out of there as fast as they could, especially considering the child screamed right before she was killed. Loud enough that it could wake the parents AND a neighbor (according to LE, who tested by screaming near the basement vent). From the time of that scream, there was a minute or two before being confronted with your victim's parents.

No one can prove the Rs DIDN'T own duct tape and nylon cord. Most houses do have these common things. It would be unusual if they did not. Just because the rest of the tape and cord were not found in the house doesn't mean the house did not have them. As mentioned, there was plenty of opportunity for these small items to be disposed of. JR took a walk, right? Drop'em down any storm drain, or in a neighborhood trash bin. The original panties, too. Small items. Easily concealed in a pocket or purse. I think we can safely say that police did not check every trash bin and storm drain in the neighborhood. They didn't even check the parents when they left the house!
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:29 PM
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I followed your underwear link to your experiment. I am relieved as I thought what is wrong with that child's legs they are so red and pimply looking. Who would post such a photo. After I went to your bloomies link I had to laugh at myself.
It wasn't my experiment. A Scottish woman did it, after traveling to N.Y. at different times and purchasing the Bloomies on both occasions in different sizes to compare. She has a child who was a toddler when she thought of the idea, then as the child grew into the same size as JB at six, she took the measurements and made the dummy. I think it's brilliant. If LE had been nearly as diligent, they'd have known before 2000 how important this evidence is.

The Ramseys knew. They held onto the alleged package of size 12 Bloomies for five years until Wood turned it over. Had it not been found by one of their own PI's I doubt we ever would have heard of it. Guess the PI, allegedly a former cop, knew something about destroying evidence, so it ended up with Lin Wood, who finally turned it over once Lacy was fully in charge of the investigation--and Team Ramsey/Lou Smit/Ollie, when Lacy accepted their "help" on the case. Ha. Don't remember Lacy or Team Ramsey shouting from the news media the results of testing those bloomies and that package, either. Any DNA, "touch" or otherwise, there? Huh? Any fingerprints tested on that clear plastic package? Anyone?

Anyway, Jayelles thought of this and had the planning and patience to wait several years to complete it. (She really is a brilliant person.) I've been asked about the "red" legs before, some people thinking they look burned. It is repulsive in a "freakish doll" kind of way, but then, this case is nothing if not freakish. Jayelles said she used the red paint to show the proportions better and it was what she had on hand. I'm not sure blue or green or purple or yellow, etc., would have been any better, though. It's hard to imagine we have to go to these lengths to figure out what the DA and Team Ramsey have worked so hard to keep hidden.

I really hate this case.
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:39 PM
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I'm gonna take this bait and run with this one. No, I don't think that if IDI and there was some intruder in the house, he would have an overwhelming urge to investigate the contents of the Ramsey's dryer. I can't come up with a reason why a burglar, rapist, murderer, child molester would feel compelled to examine his victims' laundry. People don't wash blankets everyday. There was a far greater chance of finding a bunch of socks or blue jeans in there than his victim's favorite blanket. If he wanted a blanket and because he was so comfortable strolling about the Ramsey home, eating pineapple, writing ransom notes, going up and down staircases, he could have simply gotten one from the bedroom upstairs.

As an aside, because I think the likelihood of a burglar's checking my dryer, I have actually hidden valuables in amongst a dried load of towels in my dryer when I went away for a long weekend.
LOL.me too.I've even hid Christmas presents in there.
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When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
If the "intruder" found a duvet in the suitcase, why would they need to look in the dryer for a blanket? Only someone who knew the blanket was in there. IDI understands that all this was done with the parents supposedly sleeping upstairs. Do you understand how long all this would take to accomplish? The pineapple, the assault, the bludgeoning, making the garrote, redressing, looking for a blanket, going to get a doll to put with her body, moving a metal grate while the family was home (entry and exit). Wiping off the flashlight AND batteries (this part just kills me). Etc, etc. This crime could have involved three floors of a 4-story house, JB's room/bathroom, the kitchen/dining area (where the pineapple, spoon. bowl and tissue box and flashlight were found) and the basement. All this while parents who may not have even been asleep are home. And a brother, too.
NO intruder who has just sexually assaulted and killed a child would feel the need to cover up the child's body and place dolls or a nightie near it. They would simply get out of there as fast as they could, especially considering the child screamed right before she was killed. Loud enough that it could wake the parents AND a neighbor (according to LE, who tested by screaming near the basement vent). From the time of that scream, there was a minute or two before being confronted with your victim's parents.

No one can prove the Rs DIDN'T own duct tape and nylon cord. Most houses do have these common things. It would be unusual if they did not. Just because the rest of the tape and cord were not found in the house doesn't mean the house did not have them. As mentioned, there was plenty of opportunity for these small items to be disposed of. JR took a walk, right? Drop'em down any storm drain, or in a neighborhood trash bin. The original panties, too. Small items. Easily concealed in a pocket or purse. I think we can safely say that police did not check every trash bin and storm drain in the neighborhood. They didn't even check the parents when they left the house!
Don't forget searching the house for John's check stubs, samples of Patsy's handwriting, pad, pen, and composing the 2.5 page note, practicing, then final draft. That had to take a few minutes, even by IDI time....
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