NY NY - Iroquois Natl. Wildlife Refuge, WhtFem 697UFNY, 20-23, Gapped Teeth, Oct'83

CarlK90245 · #1 10-22-2010, 02:09 PM

The Doe Network:
Case File 697UFNY http://doenetwork.org/cases/images/697UFNY1.jpg

Unidentified White Female

* The victim was discovered on October 29, 1983 in Shelby, Orleans County, New York
* Estimated Date of Death: 1981
* Mummified/skeletal Remains

Vital Statistics

* Estimated age: 20-23 years old
* Approximate Height and Weight: 5'2-5'4"; 90-130 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair. Possibly pierced ears. Possibly diabetic.
* Dentals: Available. 2 mm space between 8 & 9.

Case History
The victim was located off Route 63, in the Iroquois National Wildlife Refuge in Orleans County, New York on October 29, 1983.

CarlK90245 · #2 10-22-2010, 02:10 PM

I've been focusing on Canada MP's and trying to compare them to USA UID's. This one seems pretty close:

Darlene Yvonne Tucker

___

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/246dfon.html

* Oakville, Ontario is about 115 miles from Shelby NY (just on the other side of Lake Ontario).
* Her height and weight (5'2-5'4"; 110-120 lbs) is right there.
* She has the gap between her #8 and #9 teeth, just as does the UID.
* She was slightly younger (16) than the UID's estimated age (20-23).
* She was last heard from in about March '83 (about a month after her disappearance), which was about 7-8 months before the remains were found. This is a somewhat shorter timeframe than the estimated postmortem interval of approx 2-years.

She caught my attention because she looks alot like 64UFLA, but there's nothing mentioned about gapped teeth with respect to this UID.
http://doenetwork.org/cases/64ufla.html

carbuff · #3 10-22-2010, 02:18 PM

That looks like a very good match, Carl. Especially that big gap between the teeth.

CarlK90245 · #4 10-22-2010, 02:36 PM

I just left a message with Det. Leo Hunter of the New York State Police.

BTW, I wonder how they concluded from mummified/skeletal remains that she might be diabetic, and whether DYT's skin allergy might show similar indications that could be interpreted as possibly diabetic.

CarlK90245 · #5 10-22-2010, 02:45 PM

BTW, I'll put this one up from my "tentative possibles" list, although one would think that her medical hardware would have been detected (unless some bones were missing).

Also, given the proximity, one would think that someone already has thought of checking her out against this UID case.

Charlotte Heimann

___

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...charlotte.html

... but if Det. Hunter calls me back, I will verify whether or not they checked Charlotte Heimann out against this case.

carbuff · #6 10-22-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlK90245

BTW, I'll put this one up from my "tentative possibles" list, although one would think that her medical hardware would have been detected (unless some bones were missing).

Also, given the proximity, one would think that someone already has thought of checking her out against this UID case.

Charlotte Heimann

___

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...charlotte.html

... but if Det. Hunter calls me back, I will verify whether or not they checked Charlotte Heimann out against this case.

Wow, yeah, you would think they'd have checked it, but facially she's *very* close.

Ms Suzanne · #7 10-22-2010, 09:22 PM

There is also Kimberly Sue Doss.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/..._kimberly.html

Are they sure she may have died in 1981.Was this Jane Doe's hair colored some blond?What do they mean by mumified state?Was this Jane Doe ever pregnant or had an abortion?What else do you know about her?May I please ask do you have an email for who to contact about this Jane Doe?Do you know or can you find out if they have DNA on this Jane Doe and is it in CODIS.

CarlK90245 · #8 10-22-2010, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms Suzanne

There is also Kimberly Sue Doss.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/..._kimberly.html

Are they sure she may have died in 1981.Was this Jane Doe's hair colored some blond?What do they mean by mumified state?Was this Jane Doe ever pregnant or had an abortion?What else do you know about her?May I please ask do you have an email for who to contact about this Jane Doe?Do you know or can you find out if they have DNA on this Jane Doe and is it in CODIS.

I left a voicemail message with the Detective in charge of this case, Leo Hunter. I don't have an e-mail address for him.

I don't know anything else aside from what is in the DoeNet page for this UID.

BTW, if the bones were in a wildlife preserve, and thought to have been there for approx 2 years, it is doubtful that any hair remained to determine her hair color.
When I get a call-back from Det. Hunter, I will ask him those questions.

Ms Suzanne · #9 10-23-2010, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlK90245

I left a voicemail message with the Detective in charge of this case, Leo Hunter. I don't have an e-mail address for him.

I don't know anything else aside from what is in the DoeNet page for this UID.

BTW, if the bones were in a wildlife preserve, and thought to have been there for approx 2 years, it is doubtful that any hair remained to determine her hair color.
When I get a call-back from Det. Hunter, I will ask him those questions.

Thank you. I am also interested in if they have DNA on this Jane Doe and if it's in CODIS so family members can check if this is a match to thier missing person.

Ms Suzanne · #10 10-23-2010, 10:05 AM

There is also Phyllis Eleanor Berry.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...y_phyllis.html

I remember looking up matches for other Jane Does that sound like this one Jane Doe.JD 83 Amarillo Texas was Identified not long ago and was very special to me had a gap in her teeth.So did JD 84 Broward County Jane Doe.A serial killer Christopher Bernard Wilder use to put some of his victims at national monuments,reservoirs ect...I do think he was killing long before 1984.

carbuff · #11 10-23-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlK90245

I just left a message with Det. Leo Hunter of the New York State Police.

BTW, I wonder how they concluded from mummified/skeletal remains that she might be diabetic, and whether DYT's skin allergy might show similar indications that could be interpreted as possibly diabetic.

I'm kind of stretching here, but with insulin-depended diabetes that needs the regular shots in the thigh, you get scarring. "Mummified" to me sounds like there might have been some patches of skin remaining, so maybe they could detect that.

Diabetes can have lots of effects on the body, but I don't remember of ever reading about skeletal ones.

Ms Suzanne · #12 10-23-2010, 11:31 AM

Christopher Bernard Wilder usually put his victims a county or two or a state or two over from where the person came up missing.

CarlK90245 · #13 10-23-2010, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms Suzanne

Christopher Bernard Wilder usually put his victims a county or two or a state or two over from where the person came up missing.

I remember the Wilder story very clearly. It was all over the local and national news at the time. One of the few victims that he did not kill was picked up in the Redondo Beach/Torrance CA area very close to where I live. He dropped her off in Boston shortly before he died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound during a struggle with New Hampshire State Police.

CarlK90245 · #14 11-09-2010, 04:12 PM

I spoke with Det. Leo Hunter of the New York State Police - Batavia Station.

He looked through the case file and came up with the following names of persons whom they have looked at and ruled out:

Cindy Irene King (Grant's Pass, OR)
Katherine O'Neill Anderson (Annapolis, MD)
Michele Reidenbach (Zelienople, PA)
Marie Ann Blee (Craig, CO)
Margaret Holst (Omaha, NE)

He said that this list was not all-inclusive, as other organizations may have summarily ruled others out and did not notify him.

I started to ask several questions regarding the condition of the remains, and he said that he didn't want to get into it due to the fact that it was still an open criminal investigation. However, in general, he seemed to be friendly and receptive to the information that I had.

He asked me to send him an e-mail summarizing any possible matches that I had, and he would get back to me with what he finds out.

Since none of the four possibles mentioned on this thread (i.e., Darlene Tucker, Charlotte Heimann, Kimberly S. Doss, and Phyllis Berry) were on his list, I included all of them on my e-mail to him.

chaddylex · #15 11-10-2010, 11:05 AM

Carl, I can't believe that Charlotte Heimann hasn't been looked at as possible match considering the distance from where Charlotte went missing to where the UID was found ... I am very curious to see who this UID is... Thanks for submitting all of the possibles to Det Hunter.

CarlK90245 · #16 11-10-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaddylex

Carl, I can't believe that Charlotte Heimann hasn't been looked at as possible match considering the distance from where Charlotte went missing to where the UID was found ... I am very curious to see who this UID is... Thanks for submitting all of the possibles to Det Hunter.

I thought the same thing. None of the five people that he found in the case file even had gapped teeth, although Margaret Holst had "crooked" teeth. It doesn't look to me like they spent much time screening possibles.

ETA: By the way, he also noted that in addition to the gapped teeth, he indicated that the UID had a prominent overbite. This is not mentioned in the DoeNet casefile.

chaddylex · #17 11-10-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlK90245

I thought the same thing. None of the five people that he found in the case file even had gapped teeth, although Margaret Holst had "crooked" teeth. It doesn't look to me like they spent much time screening possibles.

Well hopefully he takes your submissions seriously and contacts the LE that is handling the missing girls cases.

I have to wonder how many missing people's cases could be solved if some LE agencies would put more time and thought into them.. These UID's have a name, they are someone!

CarlK90245 · #18 06-24-2012, 04:22 PM

They finally created a NamUs Casefile for this Jane Doe.

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10301

Additional info and Differences from DoeNet info:
* Age Range widened to 17-25, compared to DoeNet (20-23)
* Hair is now described as "Blonde to light brown, curly, long", compared to DoeNet (Brown).
* Skeletal Findings - Harris Lines (AKA Growth Arrest Lines), in both femora and tibiae indicating a disruption in bone growth (possibly caused by periods of malnutrition or illness).
* Dental: None of the wisdom teeth had erupted. - Fillings in all of the other 8 molars.
* slender build

CarlK90245 · #19 06-24-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlK90245

I've been focusing on Canada MP's and trying to compare them to USA UID's. This one seems pretty close:

Darlene Yvonne Tucker

___

* Oakville, Ontario is about 115 miles from Shelby NY (just on the other side of Lake Ontario).
* Her height and weight (5'2-5'4"; 110-120 lbs) is right there.
* She has the gap between her #8 and #9 teeth, just as does the UID.
* She was slightly younger (16) than the UID's estimated age (20-23).
* She was last heard from in about March '83 (about a month after her disappearance), which was about 7-8 months before the remains were found. This is a somewhat shorter timeframe than the estimated postmortem interval of approx 2-years.

The hair description would probably rule-out Darla Tucker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlK90245

BTW, I'll put this one up from my "tentative possibles" list, although one would think that her medical hardware would have been detected (unless some bones were missing).

Also, given the proximity, one would think that someone already has thought of checking her out against this UID case.

Charlotte Heimann

___

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...charlotte.html

... but if Det. Hunter calls me back, I will verify whether or not they checked Charlotte Heimann out against this case.

And the fact that all body parts were recovered, and they noted Harris lines on the leg bones, but didn't mention any medical hardware. This would probably rule-out Charlotte Heimann.

Houston Mom · #20 12-12-2012, 08:46 PM

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10301

Exclusions
The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent: First Name Last Name Year of Birth State LKA
Charlotte Heimann 1954 New York

joeytes · #21 12-23-2012, 03:28 PM

What about Barbara Bruno?

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11582/4/

Date last seen August 01, 1980 00:00
Age last seen 18 to 19 years old
Height (inches) 61.0 to 63.0
Weight (pounds) 120.0 to 145.0
Hair Brown

There is very little information on Babara Bruno. She lived about 50 miles away from where the UID was found. Timing is about right.

The UID was found October 29, 1983. Estimated date of death is 1981.

Estimated age: 20-23 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'2-5'4"; 90-130 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair. Possibly pierced ears. Possibly diabetic.

This was not ruled out as an exclusion in NAMUS. I just posted it here for other people's opinions.

CarlK90245 · #22 12-23-2012, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeytes

What about Barbara Bruno?

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11582/4/

Date last seen August 01, 1980 00:00
Age last seen 18 to 19 years old
Height (inches) 61.0 to 63.0
Weight (pounds) 120.0 to 145.0
Hair Brown

There is very little information on Babara Bruno. She lived about 50 miles away from where the UID was found. Timing is about right.

The UID was found October 29, 1983. Estimated date of death is 1981.

Estimated age: 20-23 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'2-5'4"; 90-130 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair. Possibly pierced ears. Possibly diabetic.

This was not ruled out as an exclusion in NAMUS. I just posted it here for other people's opinions.

I was thinking about Barbara as a possible. I wish there was a smiling photo of her to see if she had gapped teeth. (or for that matter, gold restorations on the gumline, which would make her a possible for the Skeletal Jane Doe found buried in 1988 in Irondequoit).

NY NY - Irondequoit - Female 122UFNY, 15-20, July 1988 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Wanting2Help · #23 12-31-2012, 01:39 PM

What about Sheri Ball?
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/ca...rrent_page=dna

-She has a similar face shape
-Was on her way to NY
-Height in range
-Slender build
-In photo's she appears to have blond/brown hair
-Cannot tell for certain but one of the photos looks like she might have a gap between her teeth?
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/photos/full/21252

carbuff · #24 12-31-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanting2Help

What about Sheri Ball?
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/ca...rrent_page=dna

-She has a similar face shape
-Was on her way to NY
-Height in range
-Slender build
-In photo's she appears to have blond/brown hair
-Cannot tell for certain but one of the photos looks like she might have a gap between her teeth?
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/photos/full/21252

I was just looking at Shari Ball, too. I'm thinking the broken left elbow probably rules her out, but sometimes childhood breaks heal so completely they don't leave a trace on the x-rays.

CarlK90245 · #25 12-31-2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbuff

I was just looking at Shari Ball, too. I'm thinking the broken left elbow probably rules her out, but sometimes childhood breaks heal so completely they don't leave a trace on the x-rays.

You don't want to rely on past bone breaks as a means to rule-out. Remember that Colleen Orsborn remained UID for decades because the Orlando FL ME office positively ruled her out due to the lack of evidence of a prior broken arm.