NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #24

[tlcya]

Originally Posted by Sherbie

I think her attorney would probably be advised and perhaps come along with them. Once an atty is involved, LE can't question a suspect without the atty present unless the suspect wants to waive that right.

I sort of doubt they just took her out of her cell and drove her out there without EB's consent (and likely the consent of her atty, too, though EB could have done it against atty advice). LE doesn't want to set up a bad situation where the defense could claim questioning of the client without the atty present.

Exactly. How does that thing go they are always throwing out on Law & Order? fruit of the poisoned tree. If LE drags her off without consent of her and her attorney since that is who they are bound to communicate through or presnt by, and LE obtains evidence . . .

Could be argued it was obtained improperly and therefor anything that derived from THAT link in the evidence, is OUT? Right?

[lauriej]

Originally Posted by mytime

I have a question. lol

Can they just take EB to the site without her permission??

...once you "lawyer up" , i think no.

however-----it does sound like her lawyer HAS been with her today, since she called in early a.m. to announce that she wouldn''t be present at a hearing in a murder case...

http://www.gastongazette.com/news/me...se-gaston.html

"...Mead and his lawyer, Lisa Dubs, were scheduled to appear in court Monday. An early-morning call changed that plan.."

"...Dubs called (Forbes) to say she and Mead couldn’t be in court because she’s now been assigned to Elisa Baker.."

"
Forbes later told The Gazette now that he knows the specifics of why Dubs was detained, he won’t be upset if the case gets delayed.
“If this involves finding that child I don’t mind if it takes two weeks,” said Forbes.

[KikiWanBaniki]

Originally Posted by tlcox

I got no idea why for me. I just - I usually see it. And here I don't see "participation" I see complicite after the fact.

I agree--and I still think that the grief and tears in his TV interview were real, although inspired by remorse of his own inaction and the ensuing results. As I said earlier, I think EB told him it was all a terrible accident, and that ZB wouldn't want him to go to jail, thereby convincing him to help with the cover-up. I'll bet he really DOES wish he could get his daughter back and take her home to OZ, but knows only too well that it's too late for that...JMO

--Kiki

[mytime]

Originally Posted by Sherbie

For now, I'm leaning that way too, in addition to complicit with/neglectful of abuse by EB prior to Zahra's death (failure to protect your own child if you know there is abuse occurring is the same as doling it out, IMO).

I was leaning that way too but now I am leaning too far the other way. Other than the "too strange" 911 call, I dont know why but I think AB is one evil man.

JMO

[shefner]

Originally Posted by lauriej

...once you "lawyer up" , i think no.

however-----it does sound like her lawyer HAS been with her today, since she called in early a.m. to announce that she wouldn''t be present at a hearing in a murder case...

http://www.gastongazette.com/news/me...se-gaston.html

"...Mead and his lawyer, Lisa Dubs, were scheduled to appear in court Monday. An early-morning call changed that plan.."

"...Dubs called (Forbes) to say she and Mead couldn’t be in court because she’s now been assigned to Elisa Baker.."

"
Forbes later told The Gazette now that he knows the specifics of why Dubs was detained, he won’t be upset if the case gets delayed.
“If this involves finding that child I don’t mind if it takes two weeks,” said Forbes.

I don't have any legal knowledge about whether LE could force EB to go to certain crime scene locations against her wishes, but they do keep her in jail against her wishes....so perhaps its possible.

[tlcya]

Originally Posted by Sherbie

For now, I'm leaning that way too, in addition to complicit with/neglectful of abuse by EB prior to Zahra's death (failure to protect your own child if you know there is abuse occurring is the same as doling it out, IMO).

Do you think he knows/feels that?

I do think he allowed EB t be the primary caretaker and I think he didn't challenge EB. I think it is quite a leap from that to EB abusing him IMO. But I do believe she hunted gullible, passive men on the internet. And I do believe that AB had a duty, an obligation to see to the needs of his beautiful daughter. I think he let her down. I think he is culpable in Zahra's disappearance if only through neglect.

After the him not aware/involved in harming/killing Zahra I don;t know what I think s it changes, one new development aftger the next, back and forth, like a pendulem.

When LE speaks, I am sure the next line of thought wil become clear.

The above is all my own opinion.

[Lera213]

We don't know and won't know until we hear it from LE but I've been going back and forth on both of them too. Those LE people are working over time on this case!

[Sherbie]

Originally Posted by tlcox

Exactly. How does that thing go they are always throwing out on Law & Order? fruit of the poisoned tree. If LE drags her off without consent of her and her attorney since that is who they are bound to communicate through or presnt by, and LE obtains evidence . . .

Could be argued it was obtained improperly and therefor anything that derived from THAT link in the evidence, is OUT? Right?

Yeah, I just can't see it happening without consent. I mean what are they gonna do, put her in the car and not say a word to her the entire time to avoid claims of questioning w/o atty present? Even if they could manage that and videotaped it, I really believe just the act of removing her and driving her around to various places without consent could in and of itself be seen as questioning and be a violation.

I think she and her atty decided it was in her best interests to give up at least some info to police and she was brought along to help verify that info, and her atty (or atty's rep) was probably present for the ride.

Alternatively, if she is playing games, she could have told them what she was doing in that area at the time in question (even if a big fat lie) and LE wanted her to point it out to them and her atty agreed to let her do so.

I would beat my head on the lovely brick wall icon, but I have enough trouble as it just being blonde.

[wfgodot]

Originally Posted by KikiWanBaniki

I agree--and I still think that the grief and tears in his TV interview were real, although inspired by remorse of his own inaction and the ensuing results. As I said earlier, I think EB told him it was all a terrible accident, and that ZB wouldn't want him to go to jail, thereby convincing him to help with the cover-up. I'll bet he really DOES wish he could get his daughter back and take her home to OZ, but knows only too well that it's too late for that...JMO

--Kiki

Exactly, and perfectly expressed. I never think I can judge the quality of a person's sorrow - it's all expressed with each of us so differently - but when I saw the tears on GMA, I thought, "Oh God - he knows. Those are 'I wish I could change the past' tears." I don't think he was the prime mover; I don't think he had a direct hand in what happened. But after that interview I just assumed he knew. And just like you said, AB wishes that he COULD take Z home to Oz, and had never brought her here in the first place.

Too late.

[agathawannabe]

Originally Posted by Lera213

EB was whacking her over the head with her prosthetic leg that is what I think happened to her.

Every time this comes up, I can't help but think of the cell phone pic, taken on August 9, that ABC News acquired from the family friend.



Who wears a "do rag" wrapped at eyebrow level like that? (I haven't even come across any other pics of Zahra wearing a do rag. Doesn't seem like it was a norm for her.)

I keep wondering if poor Zahra may have had a somewhat serious head injury, even as far back as August. Wonder if her head was wrapped to conceal a gash on her scalp, forehead, or both.

If so, the timing of this could explain why Zahra was not enrolled in school and the homeschooling excuse came up.

I wish we knew if the furniture store lady had noticed Zahra wearing any headgear, hat, or anything in her September sighting.

Can someone with medical expertise speak to this:

Is it possible for a person to have a skull fracture, subdural hematoma, or both.. and die from it as long as 4-6 weeks later?

Sadly, of course, it's a possibility Zahra was being subjected to more and more frequent recurring beatings to her face and head.

[tfrohning]

snip

count of failure to appear for a charge of returning rental property

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ges-ar-481519/

wonder what that property was he rented and when he rented it.

[hoppyfrog]

Please remember that Zahra's threads are not dream threads. Please do not post dreams/visions. Thanks.

[Soulmagent]

Originally Posted by agathawannabe

Every time this comes up, I can't help but think of the cell phone pic, taken on August 9, that ABC News acquired from the family friend.



Who wears a "do rag" wrapped at eyebrow level like that? (I haven't even come across any other pics of Zahra wearing a do rag. Doesn't seem like it was a norm for her.)

I keep wondering if poor Zahra may have had a somewhat serious head injury, even as far back as August. Wonder if her head was wrapped to conceal a gash on her scalp, forehead, or both.

If so, the timing of this could explain why Zahra was not enrolled in school and the homeschooling excuse came up.

I wish we knew if the furniture store lady had noticed Zahra wearing any headgear, hat, or anything in her September sighting.

Can someone with medical expertise speak to this:

Is it possible for a person to have a skull fracture, subdural hematoma, or both.. and die from it as long as 4-6 weeks later?

Sadly, of course, it's a possibility Zahra was being subjected to more and more frequent recurring beatings to her face and head.

Is she missing her eye tooth? Her eyes look dark and her face puffy. You could be right . E looks like a meth head.

[Sherbie]

Originally Posted by tlcox

Do you think he knows/feels that?

I do think he allowed EB t be the primary caretaker and I think he didn't challenge EB. I think it is quite a leap from that to EB abusing him IMO. But I do believe she hunted gullible, passive men on the internet. And I do believe that AB had a duty, an obligation to see to the needs of his beautiful daughter. I think he let her down. I think he is culpable in Zahra's disappearance if only through neglect.

After the him not aware/involved in harming/killing Zahra I don;t know what I think s it changes, one new development aftger the next, back and forth, like a pendulem.

When LE speaks, I am sure the next line of thought wil become clear.

The above is all my own opinion.

Well, IF he wasn't involved in Zahra's death, I see him as being terrified after the fact that he would be in trouble, too, and going along with a plan to explain her disappearance rather than tell authorities the truth. He did have those outstanding charges against him, we aren't sure about his legal status in this country, may have been into the whole drug thing with Elisa or some other seedy activity, frightened about being here alone now that his wife was locked up...

I can see him being so frightened for his own welfare after this happened that he tried to put one over on the system. But then when I get to that point in my analysis, I have to think...what is worse, to be possibly accused of and charged with murder or to immediately tell about your part after the fact and take your lumps for it?

I guess I'm kind of waffling on his culpability because we just don't know enough. In that kind of situation, I try to give the benefit of the doubt, and I will try to keep doing that til we know more. But he doesn't make it so easy!

[Soulmagent]

Originally Posted by tfrohning

snip

count of failure to appear for a charge of returning rental property

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ges-ar-481519/

wonder what that property was he rented and when he rented it.

Wonder if it was the mattress and bedroom set?

[Bia.]

Originally Posted by Soulmagent

Is she missing her eye tooth? Her eyes look dark and her face puffy. You could be right . E looks like a meth head.

I think it's the cell phone making it look that way. The entire picture is very dark and distorted.

New here, btw. You all are doing a fantastic job. I have been lurking since poor Z went missing

[Laddsy]

I tried viewing their house and property using google maps, but think I may have been looking at the wrong one. Was their house right next to a tire store? Also it looks like their is a block of businesses right across the street.

[KikiWanBaniki]

Originally Posted by tfrohning

snip

count of failure to appear for a charge of returning rental property

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ges-ar-481519/

wonder what that property was he rented and when he rented it.

I'd be willing to bet it was jointly rented with EB. I can't recall the specifics, but her charges mention home furnishings and (IIRC) a television?

Since she has no substantial income, he would have needed to jointly apply if she wanted to buy something rent-to-own IMO.

--Kiki

[wfgodot]

Originally Posted by Bia.

I think it's the cell phone making it look that way. The entire picture is very dark and distorted.

New here, btw. You all are doing a fantastic job. I have been lurking since poor Z went missing

Hi Bia., and welcome to WS.

[Nana46]

Originally Posted by bia.

i think it's the cell phone making it look that way. The entire picture is very dark and distorted.

New here, btw. You all are doing a fantastic job. I have been lurking since poor z went missing

welcome Bia!!!!!

[Bia.]

Thank you very much for the welcome. So sad that it takes something of this nature to bring a group of wonderful people together.

[darnudes]

Originally Posted by Soulmagent

Is she missing her eye tooth? Her eyes look dark and her face puffy. You could be right . E looks like a meth head.

The tooth had been missing a while - I've seen it missing in other photos.

[agathawannabe]

Originally Posted by Soulmagent

Is she missing her eye tooth? Her eyes look dark and her face puffy. You could be right . E looks like a meth head.

It looks to me like she's missing the tooth.

Her face looks VERY swollen to me. Especially considering there are photos of her in the same time period where she looks like a thin little waif.

The family friend reportedly took the picture because she noticed a bruised eye (they both look darkened to me).

[Lera213]

I am no doctor but if she had a brain injury she would most definitely be complaining of a headache. Her face does look bruised and puffy, but it is also a bad picture...who took it and where was she when it was taken? I can see a clear bruise under her eye and yes a tooth gone. Only family, friends, school mates, teachers could answer some of these questions though.

[ella971]

Originally Posted by Soulmagent

Is she missing her eye tooth? Her eyes look dark and her face puffy. You could be right . E looks like a meth head.

Her cheeks look like they are swollen and bruised about her face. The one tooth missing I thought we saw in another picture? May be normal but not the other things.