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JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


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Old 11-18-2010, 06:29 PM
Ottavi Ottavi is offline
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The Presence of the Ransom Note

Hi everyone, I have only just joined but have been reading for a few weeks.

I hope this is not too repetitive a post. Please if it is, let me know or delete it.

I'm really hung up on the presence of the ransom note. I have been trying to understand what purpose it served, in relation to the murderer. These are the options as far as I can think:

1. Intruder - the ransom note is legitimate. Killing JB in the house was not part of the plan, but it happened. Problem - Why did they not take JB's body with them & still collect on the ransom. Why leave behind physical evidence in the form of the ransom note. Once JB was dead, the RN served no purpose other than to potentially incriminate the true murderer.

2. Intruder - the ransom note was a ruse to divert suspicion to another fictituous intruder. Problem: Why leave a ransom note pointing to an intruder, when you are one. You are placing yourself (as an outsider) into the pool of possible suspects. Why not allow LE to focus almost solely on the Ramsey's, as is highly likely if no ransom note had been left. Again, why leave behind physical evidence, when there is nothing to be gained from it.

3. Insider - the ransom note was a ruse to divert suspicion to an intruder & remove suspicion from the real murderer. Problem - Leaving of physical evidence. However did this outweigh the fact that without a RN suspicion would be immediately on members of the household.

I'm interested in anyone else's view as to the purpose of the ransom note. Particularly if anybody has any ideas on how it could benefit an intruder.
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Old 11-18-2010, 06:54 PM
MurriFlower MurriFlower is offline
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Originally Posted by Ottavi View Post
Hi everyone, I have only just joined but have been reading for a few weeks.

I hope this is not too repetitive a post. Please if it is, let me know or delete it.

I'm really hung up on the presence of the ransom note. I have been trying to understand what purpose it served, in relation to the murderer. These are the options as far as I can think:

1. Intruder - the ransom note is legitimate. Killing JB in the house was not part of the plan, but it happened. Problem - Why did they not take JB's body with them & still collect on the ransom. Why leave behind physical evidence in the form of the ransom note. Once JB was dead, the RN served no purpose other than to potentially incriminate the true murderer.

2. Intruder - the ransom note was a ruse to divert suspicion to another fictituous intruder. Problem: Why leave a ransom note pointing to an intruder, when you are one. You are placing yourself (as an outsider) into the pool of possible suspects. Why not allow LE to focus almost solely on the Ramsey's, as is highly likely if no ransom note had been left. Again, why leave behind physical evidence, when there is nothing to be gained from it.

3. Insider - the ransom note was a ruse to divert suspicion to an intruder & remove suspicion from the real murderer. Problem - Leaving of physical evidence. However did this outweigh the fact that without a RN suspicion would be immediately on members of the household.

I'm interested in anyone else's view as to the purpose of the ransom note. Particularly if anybody has any ideas on how it could benefit an intruder.
Can I add another?

4. Intruder - the RN was designed to divert the attention of the Rs so their daughter was left unprotected while they believed JR's older daughter (in Atlanta?) to be the kidnappers target.

Last edited by MurriFlower; 11-18-2010 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:48 PM
Plenum7 Plenum7 is offline
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While I'm happy to consider all sorts of possibilities Ottavi I think the best explanation for why there is a ransom note at all is that it was designed to implicate the housekeeper (and her circle). It is not so much what is in the note that indicates this, but where we are told it was found. The housekeeper LHP often left notes at the bottom of the spiral stairs. Patsy said that at first she thought the r.n. was another note from LHP. THAT, for me, is the important clue here. The (unexpected) r.n. stands in for another (expected) note. So the note is part of an attempt to implicate LHP.

This fits with the placement of the body. When asked who last went into the wine cellar the answer was LHP's husband. And it fits with the placement of Burke's knife near the body. And it fits with the ransom amount - the housekleeper could know about JR's bonus. So JR says "It must have been an insider." The first thing the Ramsey's did was point at the housekeeper. But when that story didn't stick their story changed.

Why is there a note at all? Because it was designed to point to LHP.

There are many objections to this scenario though, especially in the content of the note.
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:00 PM
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I don't think I understand what you mean.
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:29 PM
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I don't think I understand what you mean.
(Directed at Murri)
The RN addresses Mr Ramsey (John) and refers to 'your daughter' (unnamed). If they had been told this soon after putting JBR to bed (presumably safe in her own home), they might have formed the conclusion that it referred to MR having been kidnapped (in Atlanta).
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:16 AM
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My opinion is different....
I believe whether IDI or RDI the ransom note was part of the game,of the twisted fantasy.
If IDI I don't think it was written because JB was actually about to get kidnapped.
If RDI I don't believe the note was written after JB's death.I don't believe in the staging.
I believe it all started with the note either way.IMO the note reveals a state of mind and the writer was trying to deal with issues within his/her mind.I think the writers mind was clouded ,angry and desperate.
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:51 AM
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My opinion is different....
I believe whether IDI or RDI the ransom note was part of the game,of the twisted fantasy.
If IDI I don't think it was written because JB was actually about to get kidnapped.
If RDI I don't believe the note was written after JB's death.I don't believe in the staging.
I believe it all started with the note either way.IMO the note reveals a state of mind and the writer was trying to deal with issues within his/her mind.I think the writers mind was clouded ,angry and desperate.
Hiya claudicici.

Hmmm. So RDI wise you can entertain the possibility of premeditation, that the note could have prepared with JBR's demise as the final outcome?
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Old 11-19-2010, 05:34 AM
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yes,I believe if RDI it was pre meditation.I believe if PR she felt like something she "had" to do,something about her religious thoughts all twisted up and something about abuse.
JB had to die to be saved.
If BR it was part of a sick game that got out of hand and may have involved others?
Jmo...
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:06 AM
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I believe the note was pure and simple CYA. I don't believe this was perpetrated by a SFF, as they would never admit to the fact they were a small group and I believe that the writer lived in the Ramsey home.
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:49 AM
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Purpose of RN? The only one: 'was a ruse to divert' from the real motive of JBR murder.
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Old 11-20-2010, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by claudicici View Post
My opinion is different....
I believe whether IDI or RDI the ransom note was part of the game,of the twisted fantasy.
If IDI I don't think it was written because JB was actually about to get kidnapped.
If RDI I don't believe the note was written after JB's death.I don't believe in the staging.
I believe it all started with the note either way.IMO the note reveals a state of mind and the writer was trying to deal with issues within his/her mind.I think the writers mind was clouded ,angry and desperate.
I don't believe in a staging so much either,it's way too sick,the garotte gives me the creeps,it's the piece that screams sick puppy to me.
My problem is,why would a sane parent cover for the sick one?
Makes me believe they were both in it,religion maybe?JB being safe now,what argument is that?
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Old 11-20-2010, 08:08 AM
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I don't believe in a staging so much either,it's way too sick,the garotte gives me the creeps,it's the piece that screams sick puppy to me.
My problem is,why would a sane parent cover for the sick one?
Makes me believe they were both in it,religion maybe?JB being safe now,what argument is that?
Hey Madeleine! Good to see you. The sane/sick parent is a good question, but I'm wondering if both of them had their own kind of "sickness", so utimately, they had to cover for each other. I think it boils down to this: no matter how it happened, they would have both had too much explaining to do for it to look innocent. They had to make it look like someone else came in the house that night.
You know, others have said it (mostly in regards to the rn) but I believe there are lots of parallels to the Zahra Baker case here. Starting with parents that each had their own brand of "sickness".

ETA: I know the garrote is very sick and twisted (no pun intended), but try to think of other alternatives. They had to have an "obvious" cause of death. Something that when LE looked at her body, the knew immediately what killed her (or thought they did, anyway). That leaves us with some tough questions. Do you think they could have stabbed her repeatedly? This one only leads to another question. Were they smart enough or thinking clearly enough to know that if they stabbed her repeatedly there would not be enough blood to account for it? LE would have known at first glance that this did not kill her. What are some other methods of death that would have been obvious at first glance? I can't think of any more that LE would have seen immediately and that would have meant the killer didn't have to actually "touch" her body to do. Can you think of anything that would have solved the problem at hand?
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Old 11-20-2010, 08:13 AM
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Hey Madeleine! Good to see you. The sane/sick parent is a good question, but I'm wondering if both of them had their own kind of "sickness", so utimately, they had to cover for each other. I think it boils down to this: no matter how it happened, they would have both had too much explaining to do for it to look innocent. They had to make it look like someone else came in the house that night.
You know, others have said it (mostly in regards to the rn) but I believe there are lots of parallels to the Zahra Baker case here. Starting with parents that each had their own brand of "sickness".
Didn't follow this case,will have to look it up.
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:24 AM
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ETA: I know the garrote is very sick and twisted (no pun intended), but try to think of other alternatives. They had to have an "obvious" cause of death. Something that when LE looked at her body, the knew immediately what killed her (or thought they did, anyway). That leaves us with some tough questions. Do you think they could have stabbed her repeatedly? This one only leads to another question. Were they smart enough or thinking clearly enough to know that if they stabbed her repeatedly there would not be enough blood to account for it? LE would have known at first glance that this did not kill her. What are some other methods of death that would have been obvious at first glance? I can't think of any more that LE would have seen immediately and that would have meant the killer didn't have to actually "touch" her body to do. Can you think of anything that would have solved the problem at hand?
Re this scenario
The head bash would have been enough.IMO
No need to stage something else.The bad kidnappers hit her head,end of story,kidnapping gone wrong.

and I still don't think the strangulation was just staging.she was alive when strangled (with what exaclty I have no idea!maybe the cord,maybe something else).i'd rather believe in the overkill scenario,which kinda points more to BR?
ahhhh,dunno!
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:33 AM
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reading those old "brother moon" posts I am now almost convinced PR did this and a lot of it has symbolic meaning.It made sense to her.She was God and JB was the sacrificial lamb and at the same time they were still one and will be so for eternity.
The "sane" one (JR) had to cover for her because he was the abuser.
JMO JMO JMO but this makes perfect sense to me at the moment.
I always felt more like BR myself because it seems almost like a horrible,insanely twisted game but reading all of PR's statements again I realize how child like she really was at times.Everything was over the top,over dramatic but at the same time immature...
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Old 11-20-2010, 10:12 AM
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reading those old "brother moon" posts I am now almost convinced PR did this and a lot of it has symbolic meaning.It made sense to her.She was God and JB was the sacrificial lamb and at the same time they were still one and will be so for eternity.
The "sane" one (JR) had to cover for her because he was the abuser.
JMO JMO JMO but this makes perfect sense to me at the moment.
I always felt more like BR myself because it seems almost like a horrible,insanely twisted game but reading all of PR's statements again I realize how child like she really was at times.Everything was over the top,over dramatic but at the same time immature...

BBM

This is one of the reasons that I cannot get Patsy out of the role of stager. It is so over the top and dramatic that it has her name written all over it. I can't seem to settle on one opinion of who did what or who covered for who, but Patsy writing the note is one absolute for me. I don't think JR even had any input into the contents. Honestly I dont think he even read it till right before the 911 call. I bet he almost lost it when he realized just how bad Patsy hated him right then. Because she no doubt hated him with a passion! That's one of the things pretty obvious in the note. Sorry, but the part about "respecting John" is pure BS. Just one more way she wanted this note to point straight to John Ramsey.
I would love to see the ID Discovery network do an episode of "Fatal Attraction" on these two. If you've ever seen this show, you know that most of the time, in these couples, one of them by themselves would be pretty harmless, but when these people team up, havoc ensues. I believe this is what happened with John and Patsy Ramsey. Of course, I know they could never do the show unless one of them were convicted of the crime, but I can hope, can't I?
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Old 11-20-2010, 10:45 AM
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Re this scenario
The head bash would have been enough.IMO
No need to stage something else.The bad kidnappers hit her head,end of story,kidnapping gone wrong.

and I still don't think the strangulation was just staging.she was alive when strangled (with what exaclty I have no idea!maybe the cord,maybe something else).i'd rather believe in the overkill scenario,which kinda points more to BR?
ahhhh,dunno!
BBM

You are right in that the head bash would have been enough if it weren't for a couple of other things. Number one is the prior abuse. If you believe prior abuse, you then know why they went "over the top" with the staging. How many IDIs do you know that believe the way they do because they cannot wrap their heads around any parent doing these things to their child's body? If they were honest, it would be most of them. That's why there had to be so much staging. It had to look to LE and the whole world that there is no way these parents could have done this. I believed that way at one time (I think you did too, right?). But now we have another case where the parents actually dismembered their child's body (Zahra Baker). To me, this even trumps what the Ramseys did to JB. My mind won't even process this. But I tell you one thing, people will not come to the Baker's defense and here is why. They have no money, no social standing, no political affiliations, and more importantly, they don't deserve it. The Ramseys didn't deserve it either, but let's face it, they were a "good family" with money and clout and it does not happen in families like their's (not if the "powers that be" can help it, that is).
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:45 PM
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BBM

You are right in that the head bash would have been enough if it weren't for a couple of other things. Number one is the prior abuse. If you believe prior abuse, you then know why they went "over the top" with the staging. How many IDIs do you know that believe the way they do because they cannot wrap their heads around any parent doing these things to their child's body? If they were honest, it would be most of them. That's why there had to be so much staging. It had to look to LE and the whole world that there is no way these parents could have done this. I believed that way at one time (I think you did too, right?). But now we have another case where the parents actually dismembered their child's body (Zahra Baker). To me, this even trumps what the Ramseys did to JB. My mind won't even process this. But I tell you one thing, people will not come to the Baker's defense and here is why. They have no money, no social standing, no political affiliations, and more importantly, they don't deserve it. The Ramseys didn't deserve it either, but let's face it, they were a "good family" with money and clout and it does not happen in families like their's (not if the "powers that be" can help it, that is).
Beck, you deserve an ovation.
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:51 PM
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I don't believe in a staging so much either,it's way too sick,the garotte gives me the creeps,it's the piece that screams sick puppy to me.
My problem is,why would a sane parent cover for the sick one?
Makes me believe they were both in it,religion maybe?JB being safe now,what argument is that?
What if they were not covering for each other, but for their other child? Would that make it more palatable? It did for me, in the fact that it was something I could understand. That along with other clues has convinced me that Burke and not his parents is somehow responsible.
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:05 AM
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What if they were not covering for each other, but for their other child? Would that make it more palatable? It did for me, in the fact that it was something I could understand. That along with other clues has convinced me that Burke and not his parents is somehow responsible.
Maybe ......a bit,still I find it a very bizarre choice.(garrote)
BUT BDI would explain their behaviour.Perfectly.It's the only thing that explains their behaviour&actions actually.IMO
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:08 AM
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IMO the most powerful things pointing to BDI are the parents behaviour&actions
AND
the overkill
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:27 AM
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AND BDI explains IMO also FW's behaviour.
He was mad with the R's not telling the truth but decided to shut up cause it was about a kid and not a cold blooded criminal parent?Maybe they promised to get help for BR (they DID send him to a shrink,we have no idea why EXACTLY,we'll never know,he didn't seem to be too upset about JB's murder,see his comments re moving on)
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:19 PM
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Wow, great thread.
I too have always thought that the ransom note did not in any way benefit an intruder in any scenario. You do not leave a long rambling ransom note for a corpse in the basement. You do not accidentally cause the death of your intended kidnappee and say "What the hell, let's leave the note anyway just in case ... and to heck with the note being a clue that could convict us."

The ONLY real beneficiary of the note, in the circumstances, is someone who is desperately trying to introduce the notion of an intruder. Unfortunately Patsy's histrionic personality got the better of her and instead of "We are watching. Do not call police. Phone call later today" the note was the lengthy monologue we all know and love. Pure Patsy.

I have always thought BDI; it's the only thing that would've kept JR's trap shut all these years. If you read the Ramsey's own book you'll note that they are extraordinarily image-conscious people -- even a childhood mishap or fit of pique, for which he could have been acquitted, would've scarred Burke's public image for life. He'd always be the "kid who fed his sister pineapple and then bashed her on the head." They were willing to go to quite some length to preserve his Ivy League potential.

All of the subsequent behavior vis a vis Burke screams out. Also things that have always struck me -- when JR brought JonBenet up from the basement holding her at arm's length like a plank -- that wasn't the posture of a shocked father, that was the posture of someone who had quite a few hours to think about the fact that he was going to have to tote an aging cadaver around and was grossed out by it, daughter or not. And Patsy's melodramatic "Jesus, you raised Lazarus from the dead, raise my baby" was not a sentiment that rolls from the tongue in the first few minutes of shock; she clearly rehearsed that.

JMHO of course. Great posts, everyone!
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:47 PM
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Wow, great thread.
I too have always thought that the ransom note did not in any way benefit an intruder in any scenario. You do not leave a long rambling ransom note for a corpse in the basement. You do not accidentally cause the death of your intended kidnappee and say "What the hell, let's leave the note anyway just in case ... and to heck with the note being a clue that could convict us."

The ONLY real beneficiary of the note, in the circumstances, is someone who is desperately trying to introduce the notion of an intruder. Unfortunately Patsy's histrionic personality got the better of her and instead of "We are watching. Do not call police. Phone call later today" the note was the lengthy monologue we all know and love. Pure Patsy.

I have always thought BDI; it's the only thing that would've kept JR's trap shut all these years. If you read the Ramsey's own book you'll note that they are extraordinarily image-conscious people -- even a childhood mishap or fit of pique, for which he could have been acquitted, would've scarred Burke's public image for life. He'd always be the "kid who fed his sister pineapple and then bashed her on the head." They were willing to go to quite some length to preserve his Ivy League potential.

All of the subsequent behavior vis a vis Burke screams out. Also things that have always struck me -- when JR brought JonBenet up from the basement holding her at arm's length like a plank -- that wasn't the posture of a shocked father, that was the posture of someone who had quite a few hours to think about the fact that he was going to have to tote an aging cadaver around and was grossed out by it, daughter or not. And Patsy's melodramatic "Jesus, you raised Lazarus from the dead, raise my baby" was not a sentiment that rolls from the tongue in the first few minutes of shock; she clearly rehearsed that.

JMHO of course. Great posts, everyone!
Great post yourself! ITA. More and more, I see BR fitting into this crime. It fills in a lot of gaps.
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Old 11-26-2010, 07:19 AM
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Great post yourself! ITA. More and more, I see BR fitting into this crime. It fills in a lot of gaps.
I have to agree with you guys. For years I have believed that Patsy lost it and bashed JB's head, but that's not sounding so logical anymore. Especially now that LE wants to talk to Burke and he doesn't want to talk to them. If he were totally innocent and told everything he knew all those years ago, he would have no reason to keep silent now. Makes you wonder if all the therapy he got really worked. I guess he could have "blocked" out what he did to his sister and therapy would have brought that out, that could be the reason for his silence now.
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