Observations About Boulder (and a theory)

[eileenhawkeye]

I thought you meant more of a feeling than an actual noise like Patsy should have woken up that night, and even if it was very quiet, she should have known that something was very wrong and that she should go check on the children because she's their mother. I didn't realize that you were referring to the noise that an intruder would make while in their house. IF an intruder did kill JBR in the basement, then I am not shocked that no one heard the actual killing due to the size of the house, the # of floors separating the basement from the bedrooms, carpeting, doors shut, etc. However, not all of the crime took place in the basement, if there was an intruder. Some of it had to take place in the bedroom where she was kidnapped and also in the kitchen where a late night pineapple snack was apparently being eaten so I am confused to why no one, especially Burke, did not hear anything happening on the 1st or 2nd floor.

[DeeDee249]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

That would be me....

Not the parent who doesn't hear- I was the kid that snuck out! Not only that- my mother was blind (her whole life). When I came in from a night out, she always asked me what time it was (I had a curfew) and I always lied. (Sorry, mom). Later, unbeknownst to me, my dad got her a talking clock (it was about the size of a small radio) and all she had to was press a button and it said the time. I got caught - once. After that, I just had to remember to reset the clock before I went out.
This was the 60s- now there are tons of electronic devices that say the time aloud. But then, there really wasn't much. My mom was never allowed to learn to read Braille. Her father wouldn't permit it. Different times, they were.

[DeeDee249]

Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye

I thought you meant more of a feeling than an actual noise like Patsy should have woken up that night, and even if it was very quiet, she should have known that something was very wrong and that she should go check on the children because she's their mother. I didn't realize that you were referring to the noise that an intruder would make while in their house. IF an intruder did kill JBR in the basement, then I am not shocked that no one heard the actual killing due to the size of the house, the # of floors separating the basement from the bedrooms, carpeting, doors shut, etc. However, not all of the crime took place in the basement, if there was an intruder. Some of it had to take place in the bedroom where she was kidnapped and also in the kitchen where a late night pineapple snack was apparently being eaten so I am confused to why no one, especially Burke, did not hear anything happening on the 1st or 2nd floor.

It's not that confusing. They HEARD the noise. The scream, etc., whatever. It's only confusing if you believe the parents really were sleeping. Even so, you can't always assume a mother will hear or "sense" something amiss. As a mom, we all sleep with "one eye open" when our kids are sick or out late. But when all is well and nothing out of the ordinary is expected, a mom may sleep soundly.

[eileenhawkeye]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

It's not that confusing. They HEARD the noise. The scream, etc., whatever. It's only confusing if you believe the parents really were sleeping.

You're making this more confusing for me. If the R's are involved, then obviously they heard JBR scream and they wouldn't care if they were making noise trying to cover it up. If the R's are not involved, then they should have been sleeping when the murder occurred, right? Either they were awake and killing JBR or covering it up or they were sleeping when it was going on.

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

Even so, you can't always assume a mother will hear or "sense" something amiss. As a mom, we all sleep with "one eye open" when our kids are sick or out late. But when all is well and nothing out of the ordinary is expected, a mom may sleep soundly

I never assumed that a mother would "sense" anything bad happening to her child. I was just confused whether Agatha meant that Patsy should have woken up due to a noise (like JBR's scream) or because she could "sense" something was wrong.

[DeeDee249]

Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye

You're making this more confusing for me. If the R's are involved, then obviously they heard JBR scream and they wouldn't care if they were making noise trying to cover it up. If the R's are not involved, then they should have been sleeping when the murder occurred, right? Either they were awake and killing JBR or covering it up or they were sleeping when it was going on.



I never assumed that a mother would "sense" anything bad happening to her child. I was just confused whether Agatha meant that Patsy should have woken up due to a noise (like JBR's scream) or because she could "sense" something was wrong.

Sorry if I added to your confusion. I think what is the point is here is that IF the parents were asleep or in their room they SHOULD have heard the scream. Of course, even if IDI is correct, the parents may not have been asleep. Midnight (the time the scream was heard by the neighbor) really isn't THAT late- people are still up. Especially with all Patsy had to do that night before the trip, she may have been puttering around the house. So even if they were not involved, they may not have been asleep. But you can be sure they'd have heard it. That being said, I think Agatha meant what you said- that Patsy should have heard something amiss (if she were not involved).
This is confusing and doesn't need to be. Occam's Razor- the simple answer is that the parent(s) DID hear the scream. So no point wondering why they didn't. They heard it because either they were involved or they heard it and knew what happened.
Every mother thinks she would hear a scream from her child in the night or sense when something is wrong. Most times it is true. In this case it isn't applicable, IMO, because they did hear her scream.

[Agatha_C]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

Sorry if I added to your confusion. I think what is the point is here is that IF the parents were asleep or in their room they SHOULD have heard the scream. Of course, even if IDI is correct, the parents may not have been asleep. Midnight (the time the scream was heard by the neighbor) really isn't THAT late- people are still up. Especially with all Patsy had to do that night before the trip, she may have been puttering around the house. So even if they were not involved, they may not have been asleep. But you can be sure they'd have heard it. That being said, I think Agatha meant what you said- that Patsy should have heard something amiss (if she were not involved).
This is confusing and doesn't need to be. Occam's Razor- the simple answer is that the parent(s) DID hear the scream. So no point wondering why they didn't. They heard it because either they were involved or they heard it and knew what happened.
Every mother thinks she would hear a scream from her child in the night or sense when something is wrong. Most times it is true. In this case it isn't applicable, IMO, because they did hear her scream.

Sorry for the confusion... I suppose I should have put the, "com'mon!" that was in my head when I wrote that (the shrug of the shoulders and the roll of the eyes, couldn't be seen...lol...).

Agatha>>> sighs... Sorry guys for the confusion!

[joeskidbeck]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

Not the parent who doesn't hear- I was the kid that snuck out! Not only that- my mother was blind (her whole life). When I came in from a night out, she always asked me what time it was (I had a curfew) and I always lied. (Sorry, mom). Later, unbeknownst to me, my dad got her a talking clock (it was about the size of a small radio) and all she had to was press a button and it said the time. I got caught - once. After that, I just had to remember to reset the clock before I went out.
This was the 60s- now there are tons of electronic devices that say the time aloud. But then, there really wasn't much. My mom was never allowed to learn to read Braille. Her father wouldn't permit it. Different times, they were.

DeeDee, you are so baaad!
Just one of the many reasons I luv ya, girl!

[claudicici]

oh DeeDee how could you? It seems to make it so much worse because your mother was blind.
I was lucky because my grandma was living upstairs from us and she would totally lie for me and tell my parents I was with her.

[my_tee_mouse]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

Not the parent who doesn't hear- I was the kid that snuck out! Not only that- my mother was blind (her whole life). When I came in from a night out, she always asked me what time it was (I had a curfew) and I always lied. (Sorry, mom). Later, unbeknownst to me, my dad got her a talking clock (it was about the size of a small radio) and all she had to was press a button and it said the time. I got caught - once. After that, I just had to remember to reset the clock before I went out.
This was the 60s- now there are tons of electronic devices that say the time aloud. But then, there really wasn't much. My mom was never allowed to learn to read Braille. Her father wouldn't permit it. Different times, they were.

Not saying nuthun...not sure about the parental statute of limitations on this one...but when the magnolia tree outside our second-story window was felled in an ice storm...my sister and I surely were sad to see it go.

[Toltec]

If an intruder came in and removed JonBenet from her bedroom, I doubt the Ramseys would have heard anything. I say this because my then 2yo somehow got out of our home and was wandering the neighborhood...while I was sleeping. Thank God my neighbor spotted her and brought her back. Turns out my boyfriend left for work and failed to lock the deadbolt.

[claudicici]

...what about Burke,Toltec,do you believe he would have heard something?

[DeeDee249]

Originally Posted by claudicici

oh DeeDee how could you? It seems to make it so much worse because your mother was blind.
I was lucky because my grandma was living upstairs from us and she would totally lie for me and tell my parents I was with her.

I know, right? My BOTH grandmas lived in the house- it was a 4-family house. My dad's mom always was looking out the front window. She'd tell my mom whenever she saw me getting off a motorcycle. So then I had to tell my biker boyfriend to meet me a block away. MY grandmas never lied for me.