Older Daughter

[princessmer81]

I am new here and I have heard some mention of the Ramsey's older daughter. Can anyone tell me more about her?

Thanks!

[VespaElf]

John and his first wife had 3 children(2 girls and a boyl).
The oldest daughter died in a car accident.
She wouldve been JBR' s half sister and Patsy's step-daughter.


Hope that answers your question!

[tipper]

I think it was 2 girls (Beth -who was killed, and Melinda) and a boy, John Andrew.

[princessmer81]

Thanks - I was curious to hear if there were mysterious circumstances surrounding his older daughter's death also.

[VespaElf]

No nothing strange with her death although people tried to infer things after JBR's murder.

[BrotherMoon]

I think the death of his older daughter played no small part in his reaction to the events on 12/25/'96. It may even have been a factor In Patsy's psychotic fantasy.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by BrotherMoon

I think the death of his older daughter played no small part in his reaction to the events on 12/25/'96. It may even have been a factor In Patsy's psychotic fantasy.

How so? Did you think John would break down and lose it like he did with Melinda's death? Be incoherant and unable to function?

Don't you find it odd that JR had a shrine to his dead daughter in his bathroom?

[princessmer81]

I would think that having lost one daughter already and going through all of that pain would make JR less likely, or able, to help cover up the murder of JonBenet.
On the other hand, if Patsy or Burke did it he may have helped them cover it up so that he wouldn't loose yet another family member.
Shrine to his dead daughter in his bathroom? - Obviously I need to go back and read some of the old posts.

[sissi]

Originally Posted by princessmer81

I would think that having lost one daughter already and going through all of that pain would make JR less likely, or able, to help cover up the murder of JonBenet.
On the other hand, if Patsy or Burke did it he may have helped them cover it up so that he wouldn't loose yet another family member.
Shrine to his dead daughter in his bathroom? - Obviously I need to go back and read some of the old posts.

Yep, "me too"!
In his bathroom?

[VespaElf]

He and Patsy had seperate bathrooms and in his is where John kept all his photos of Beth.


John was apparently totally bereft over Beth's death and would be up in the middle of the night crying (which Patsy was aware of but instead of getting up to comfort him ,she's fake being asleep and the two never discussed it.I also belive Burke was aware of John's nighttime crying jags as well).


Just another Ramsey family dysfunctional issue!!!!!!!

[BrotherMoon]

Originally Posted by Seeker

How so? Did you think John would break down and lose it like he did with Melinda's death? Be incoherant and unable to function?

Don't you find it odd that JR had a shrine to his dead daughter in his bathroom?

I think he had a large part of himself ripped out when Beth died, not much left to get all scrambled up. Some people get softer, others more hard after suffering a loss. I think the later is what happened to John.

No, shrines are common for dead loved ones. But they are usually in the more public rooms. I've always thought his retreat to the bathroom spoke of Patsy's turf marking on the rest of the house more than any connection between the elimination functions and a deceased female offspring.

[BlueCrab]

Originally Posted by messiecake

John was apparently totally bereft over Beth's death and would be up in the middle of the night crying ...

messiecake,

What is your source for this information? Thanks.

JMO

[sissi]

There is just a little kernel of this information that rings true. Somewhere in my reading I heard that he would retreat ,as not to disturb and to be alone, and sob over the loss of his daughter. There is nothing that indicates in any of the books (of course there are a few I haven't read,those dealing with reverse speech and the like) that he had a shrine in his bathroom. IMO

[Arielle]

I too recall reading somewhere about this supposed shrine. I don't remember where I read it and it may simply be a propagated rumor that has taken on its own legend as fact.

[tipper]

My recollection is that it was a poster here who used the word "shrine." When asked, it turned out that what he had were simply photographs of her that were in the bathroom.

[tipper]

Here is the bit I was thinking of.
4/19/2004

Barbara vbmenu_register("postmenu_203529", true);
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 761


Quote:
Originally Posted by Britt
1. John Ramsey didn't want anyone digging around in his domestic past.

2. Majority expert medical opinion says JonBenet was sexually abused prior to the night she was killed.

1 + 2 = IMO it's obvious what John Ramsey is hiding.

Oh, and I always thought his personal bathroom shrine to Beth was weird.


I agree that his personal bathroom shrine is not only beyond weird, but outright inappropriate and questionable. Why would a man have pictures of his deceased daughter, etc. in his personal bathroom?

Sick!
__________________
This is my opinion only
This post may not be copied to any other forum

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There is a bit of back and forth and then

7kluz vbmenu_register("postmenu_203579", true);
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 34


Tipper, this "shrine" consisted of a number of photos of Beth in John's personal bathroom. It wasn't "technically" a shrine, but it appeared extremely odd to many people why he had so many photos of Beth in his private bath.
__________________
~This Is Purely My Opinion

[twizzler333]

I thought the bathroom thing was strange myself, but then my daughter told me that her good friend had a sister who died about 15 years ago and that her mother has several photos of her sister in her personal bathroom, so maybe this is just something people do and that is one of the only really private areas they have in their home to do that in. Still strange but apparently, given the probable size of the bathroom, it may be not so out of the ordinary. We have enough room in our master bath for a seating type area, but I never thought of putting pictures there. Different strokes, I guess.

[sissi]

None of this is as weird as a man who saw her less than a half of dozen times putting up a shrine. Not as weird as this same man's wife ,who met Jonbenet one time,saying you could just appreciate the inner beauty of this child. Please, I like kids too, have them running all around my feet every minute of the day, but NEVER have I put someone elses child in my "heart". Sure some are likeable, some are cute,but do ya love them? I love my own,each and every one of them, and would think my hubby were nuts if he picked some kid he saw a few times to "care" about so much.

[VespaElf]

Originally Posted by BlueCrab

messiecake,

What is your source for this information? Thanks.

JMO

BC,
I want to say PMPT but Im not 100% so Im going to check at FFJ and Ill get back to you!
I know its prob. been brought on here too but Im loathe to dig through old posts so as soon as I get an answer (with a source) from FFJ Ill post!



EDITED TO UPDATE:

It wasn't PMPT but the Ramsey's own DOI!
Here it is !(much thanks to Why_Nutt over @ FFJ):


Here you go. DOI, page 71 to start with. I know there are other references from Patsy's point of view, but here is John on the record about it:

"Patsy remembers waking up in the middle of the night and realizing I wasn't in bed beside her. Then she would hear a moaning, an agonizing wailing like I was in physical pain. I had thought I wouldn't bother her from my study, beside our bedroom. She would lie there silently and pray, Dear God, what should I do? Should I go to him? Yet she realized that I had to work through this grief myself. She could only provide a quiet, safe place"


[Here is WHY_NUTT's personal observation:]
Now, what I take from this anecdote is that sound carried through the house well enough that even when one person thought he could not be heard, others in the house could hear easily. Another aspect of this anecdote that I wonder about is, since Burke's bedroom was right at the bottom of a straight set of stairs near the parental bed, and Patsy could hear John's wails from her position, could Burke also hear these wails? I strongly believe he could, and this is subsequently where he learned that if you hear even the loudest crying in the middle of the night, stay put in bed because it is what a Ramsey is supposed to do.

It speaks very ill of the family's dynamics, in my opinion. The lesson we have learned from John's example is that if he was dying in his bathroom from a heart attack, Patsy would have let him because the rule of the house was, leave a wailing person completely alone.



[I couldnt agree more!]

[BlueCrab]

Originally Posted by messiecake

BC,
Here you go. DOI, page 71 to start with.

Messiecake,

Thank you.