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Old 12-08-2010, 12:39 AM
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DA - Capital Punishment not off the table if <more>

Also on Tuesday, District Attorney James Gaither Jr. reiterated what he told the Observer last week, that Elisa Baker could face capital punishment if she's found responsible for the death of her stepdaughter.

Gaither has said TV news reports incorrectly stated that he had removed the death penalty and first-degree murder charges against Elisa Baker if she cooperated in the investigation.

"If the investigation determines that Elisa Baker is not involved in the death of Zahra Baker, she will not be charged," he said in statement Tuesday.

"If, on the other hand, there is sufficient and credible evidence to prove that Elisa Baker was involved in the death of Zahra Baker, the State is under no obligation to limit charges."


Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...#ixzz17UlxbEaV
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:29 AM
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IT seems to me to be a teeter totter in the media. I dont think its any different than it was from this weekend. JMO
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:44 AM
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Oh my, not another Jose Baez defence....throw it out to see if it sticks again.

The DA came out strong in rebuttal to that statement and appears they are going to stick to it. Yes!

No one has been charged yet. Can you agree upon an upcoming charge, I think you can, but glad they have the legalities about what they would do or not do worked out to move forward with charges. Sorry EB and her lawyer. Good try. DP and LWOP are still on the table from what I'm reading.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:47 AM
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Sorry O/T Oh, good thread and hi Peli! Miss you. Hope you are keeping warm! brrrr. Just cold as heck out here. lol xoxoox
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:00 AM
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I'm happy they finally corrected the confusion, but will have to admit am wondering WHY there has been no charges filed yet..."cause of death??"
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:55 AM
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Additional info here:


http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ion-ar-598655/



I rather suspect that a proffer was made, the Queen for a Day Deal, in which EB says she had nothing to do with it in addition to other statements. If evidence is found that she did, the entire deal is out due to giving false statements.

We do know she failed a poly which directly asked her if she hurt Zahra or knew who did. Now if they can prove that to be false, that she did indeed hurt Zahra or knows who did, the deal is dead. If she had no hand in it, no harm no foul.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:01 AM
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So the way this is worded (If I understand this correctly) is:
1) If EB was not involved in the COD but only the dismemberment and disposal - then she will not be charged with 1st degree murder - no capital charges and no LWOP.
2) If no COD can be proven - EB will not be charged with anything over 2nd degree.
3) Unless EB can be directly linked to COD - she will not spend the rest of her life in jail.

Conversely, if:
1) EB is found to have lied to LE and be found to be significantly involved she could be charged with Murder 1.
2) EB hasn't been able to keep any story straight for many years - LE is betting on her story containing lies (and/or knew so from the very beginning) there was really no threat in writing up this agreement - as she had violated it before she signed it (without her Atty's knowledge).
3) The only thing they can directly tie EB to is dismemberment and disposal - she would face Murder 2 (up to 30 yrs?)
4) Any or all accomplices (real or imagined) are being throw under the bus to save her butt. I wonder if she lied about "who" was an accomplice and that fact alone could make her deal null and void for Murder 2.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raisincharlie View Post
Additional info here:


http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ion-ar-598655/



I rather suspect that a proffer was made, the Queen for a Day Deal, in which EB says she had nothing to do with it in addition to other statements. If evidence is found that she did, the entire deal is out due to giving false statements.

We do know she failed a poly which directly asked her if she hurt Zahra or knew who did. Now if they can prove that to be false, that she did indeed hurt Zahra or knows who did, the deal is dead. If she had no hand in it, no harm no foul.
BBM

What strikes me as curious about the LDT questions she failed is that none of those questions asks, "Did you kill Zahra?". I would THINK LE would have asked that question directly. So, did they ask her that and she passed? Or did they NOT ask her that?

ETA: It's certainly possible to have hurt someone and NOT killed them, KWIM?
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mountain_Kat View Post
BBM

What strikes me as curious about the LDT questions she failed is that none of those questions asks, "Did you kill Zahra?". I would THINK LE would have asked that question directly. So, did they ask her that and she passed? Or did they NOT ask her that?

ETA: It's certainly possible to have hurt someone and NOT killed them, KWIM?
The three questions asked are reported in the search warrant for EB's AOL account on 10/14/2010.

Nothing about "killing" and yes you are correct, it is also possible to hurt someone without killing them. But it is also possible to hurt someone when you kill them. Just my thought, if LE wanted info from her, the last thing they would do is mention killing someone, no accusation. However LE might well have also told EB she passed the LDT to her face - seems like a good reason to keep this warrant sealed since it specifically states EB failed.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:16 PM
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Oh, thank goodness! Thanks for the thread, Peli...


Good to see you, and hey Doc!
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:21 PM
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My question right now is this: If it can not be proven she had anything to do with Zahra's death, she would not be charged anyway. So what good is the deal, if she can be charged if they can prove she is connected?
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:50 PM
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Sounds to me as if LE is becoming very defensive...after probably receiving all kinds of heat when the news first came out about the "deal."

Any deal is invalid if it turns out the suspect lied about their role in the crime.

But my worry is how can they prove cause of death. How can they prove she did not just die and then the suspect(s) panicked and did their worst, to cover up her death.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
Sounds to me as if LE is becoming very defensive...after probably receiving all kinds of heat when the news first came out about the "deal."

Any deal is invalid if it turns out the suspect lied about their role in the crime.

But my worry is how can they prove cause of death. How can they prove she did not just die and then the suspect(s) panicked and did their worst, to cover up her death.
BBM

IMO..That's why we have not seen charges. The clock is ticking. And the longer it ticks without ANY type of charges regarding Zahra, the more I worry. It seems like there are some that are charged right away, and then the ones that this much time goes by, they don't turn out very good. Kyron, Haleigh, etc...
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehcloser View Post
BBM

IMO..That's why we have not seen charges. The clock is ticking. And the longer it ticks without ANY type of charges regarding Zahra, the more I worry. It seems like there are some that are charged right away, and then the ones that this much time goes by, they don't turn out very good. Kyron, Haleigh, etc...

At least Zahra has been found, dismemberment is pretty well a given, hiding the body and other evidence also is pretty well a given. From the search warrants there appears to be half a ton of physical items collected and a significant amount of electronic information being sought. There remain at least two outstanding warrants which the DA will be fighting next week to keep sealed unlike the ones released. Lab results to come back yet most likely plus the autopsy report and tox scans if done. With all of that I can't see any arrest(s) until all of that data is received, reviewed and a basic theory developed which points in the appropriate direction.

I'd rather wait and have LE and the DA satisfied they know what happened than for them to rush an arrest(s). JMO, there appears to be plenty of signs that an impending storm is yet to come. Should add, autopsies alone take over 30 days, if Chapel Hill has not changed significantly, I say that from following three cases from near Raleigh - all 30 to 50 days for the autopsy report alone.
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
Sounds to me as if LE is becoming very defensive...after probably receiving all kinds of heat when the news first came out about the "deal."

Any deal is invalid if it turns out the suspect lied about their role in the crime.

But my worry is how can they prove cause of death. How can they prove she did not just die and then the suspect(s) panicked and did their worst, to cover up her death.
I just want everyone to remember it's the District Attorney that made this deal, not the investigators. The investigators have worked tirelessly day in and day out....I am sure this is like a slap in the face for them.

I am so mad I could spit. Our DA is...well...I just won't even go there........

When charges are filed, the clock starts ticking and discovery comes into play including a right to a speedy trial. I am sure they are crossing their t's and dotting their i's before any charges come down.
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:01 PM
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Yes, good thread. Thanks for your input, raisincharlie.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:08 PM
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I wasn't sure where to share this, but here is another case with a evil stepmother...and stupid (grrr) father....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101209/...ildren_alabama

snipped- BBM
"Leavell-Keaton is held in Kentucky on child abuse charges and awaiting return to Alabama, where she could be charged in the children's slayings. Police have said she and Deblase shared responsibility for their deaths.

Each one blames the other for killing the children."
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:30 PM
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Hmmm, there are a whole lot more sealed warrants than 2. More than 20 actually - holy cow.

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...nts-ar-601764/


http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...-warrants.html
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