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  #101  
Old 12-15-2010, 05:54 PM
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MsFacetious MsFacetious is offline
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Yep, that's why I pointed out tracking dogs specifically. Once again supports the belief that they haven't brought out anything but police K9's. With all the detail he gave in that article about the distance's searched, he would have specified if they had brought in other dogs too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarx View Post
More than two dozen searchers braved frigid 20-degree temperatures in an attempt to locate the missing woman. Investigators also conducted several aerial searches and brought in a team of tracking dogs, but they were unable to locate any sign of her.

"They searched for three miles in both directions of the crash site and two miles south. That is a pretty big area," Templeton said.

Generally speaking when the term "tracking dogs" is used it means police K9's. While I am a huge believer in them in the police realm, their ability to be utilized effectively for SAR purposes is seriously limited and often give the false impression that trained SAR dogs have been used to look for a MP. I totally get, this is what a dept has on hand, give it a try. But, the issue becomes, when they come up with nothing, then is the time to call in trained SAR dogs. They are very different. The problem is some are too proud to make the call, they feel they already did it, so no need to try another dog. Or they don't have a clue that SAR dogs are actually trained differently and in far more depth for this type of thing.
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  #102  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:01 PM
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Officials were out taking pictures today in the area and had the traffic blocked at times. I didn't see it but someone that works at the power plant saw it when he was coming home.
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  #103  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goosedeals View Post
Officials were out taking pictures today in the area and had the traffic blocked at times. I didn't see it but someone that works at the power plant saw it when he was coming home.
I would suspect that they might of found her if they are taking pictures and had the road blocked off.

JMO
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  #104  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarx View Post
More than two dozen searchers braved frigid 20-degree temperatures in an attempt to locate the missing woman. Investigators also conducted several aerial searches and brought in a team of tracking dogs, but they were unable to locate any sign of her.

"They searched for three miles in both directions of the crash site and two miles south. That is a pretty big area," Templeton said.

Generally speaking when the term "tracking dogs" is used it means police K9's. While I am a huge believer in them in the police realm, their ability to be utilized effectively for SAR purposes is seriously limited and often give the false impression that trained SAR dogs have been used to look for a MP. I totally get, this is what a dept has on hand, give it a try. But, the issue becomes, when they come up with nothing, then is the time to call in trained SAR dogs. They are very different. The problem is some are too proud to make the call, they feel they already did it, so no need to try another dog. Or they don't have a clue that SAR dogs are actually trained differently and in far more depth for this type of thing.
Again thank you for your knowledge and posts. From what I am learning, there are several different dogs used in many different cases depending on their need and availability. For instance, our neighbor is a K9 officer but his dog is used for drugs mainly.Then do you have private people that have training and their dogs have training in different areas? Cadaver dogs, scent dogs, trail dogs. I have several questions. Do you have to be licensed to have a dog and search? Or is this a volunteer basis? Is it based on ones experience and success that you are called upon no matter the state and your expertise and experience?
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  #105  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Coldpizza View Post
Again thank you for your knowledge and posts. From what I am learning, there are several different dogs used in many different cases depending on their need and availability. For instance, our neighbor is a K9 officer but his dog is used for drugs mainly.Then do you have private people that have training and their dogs have training in different areas? Cadaver dogs, scent dogs, trail dogs. I have several questions. Do you have to be licensed to have a dog and search? Or is this a volunteer basis? Is it based on ones experience and success that you are called upon no matter the state and your expertise and experience?
Good questions.
Most SAR dogs are handled, trained and owned by private citizens, yes. Very few police departments have SAR dogs on staff.

A handler and the dog go through training together, at least initially. Generally the process of training a handler and a dog takes about 2 years. (The dog is often ready before the human is!).
Human Remains Detection dogs or HRD dogs (wrongly put out in the media as cadaver dogs, but that's another story), area search dogs, trailing dogs, tracking dogs, avalanche dogs, water search dogs, disaster dogs are all their own disciplines. Some dogs are cross trained, but this just adds to the time before they are mission ready, so most specialize.
NASAR or North American Search and Rescue is the industry standard organization for SAR both human and K9. There are different levels of testing/qualifications depending on the amount of training and knowledge you and your dog have. There are also FEMA certifications for those in very specific disciplines and at a very high level.
There are other orgs that a person can certify through, but this is the most known. There are also areas where anyone can go "train" there dog and get called (yes, it really does happen). This is why there is such a huge range in the quality of dogs. There is also the issue of people who train for the test and not for real searches, but that is also a whole other rant.
Hope that helps.
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  #106  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarx View Post
Good questions.
Most SAR dogs are handled, trained and owned by private citizens, yes. Very few police departments have SAR dogs on staff.

A handler and the dog go through training together, at least initially. Generally the process of training a handler and a dog takes about 2 years. (The dog is often ready before the human is!).
Human Remains Detection dogs or HRD dogs (wrongly put out in the media as cadaver dogs, but that's another story), area search dogs, trailing dogs, tracking dogs, avalanche dogs, water search dogs, disaster dogs are all their own disciplines. Some dogs are cross trained, but this just adds to the time before they are mission ready, so most specialize.
NASAR or North American Search and Rescue is the industry standard organization for SAR both human and K9. There are different levels of testing/qualifications depending on the amount of training and knowledge you and your dog have. There are also FEMA certifications for those in very specific disciplines and at a very high level.
There are other orgs that a person can certify through, but this is the most known. There are also areas where anyone can go "train" there dog and get called (yes, it really does happen). This is why there is such a huge range in the quality of dogs. There is also the issue of people who train for the test and not for real searches, but that is also a whole other rant.
Hope that helps.
Actually it does help. It does lead me to more questions though. Is there a directory so to speak where qualified handlers of different disciplines can register based on their expertise? To me that would make sense so the proper handlers can be dispatched to the cases in which they are needed and qualified.
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  #107  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:19 PM
Shlock Homes Shlock Homes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFacetious View Post
“I can tell you they were having a very good time together,” said Donna Baker, Dale Shannon’s sister. Baker attended the party too, she said.

“We were all very close,” Baker said.

The couple left the party, Dale driving Tanya’s car, between 11:30 p.m. and 12:30 a.m., Baker said.

Their daughters, ages 4, 7, 10 and 15, were at home being cared for by the oldest. The Shannons were driving to Baker’s home in Seneca, a trip that was a normal routine for them, Sheriff Tom Templeton said.

http://www.newstrib.com/articles/new...still+no+clues



The search for a Ransom woman who disappeared after a fatal crash last week remains on hold.

Sherriff Tom Templeton tells the Bloomington Pantagraph there's no indication that the case is anything more than a missing woman case.

http://www.kwqc.com/Global/story.asp?S=13679546



Searchers are still no closer to finding a missing Ransom woman, who authorities said might have collapsed in farm fields after a fatal car crash that killed her husband.

When weather warmed late last week, authorities hoped the disappearing snow might reveal the fate of Tanya Shannon.

A four-day search was suspended until warmer weather put searchers back in the fields. With more snow predicted this week, and no more warm weather, the physical search is again on hold.

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local...cc4c002e0.html

I'm assuming that the family is familiar with the area they were driving in, so I would guess that she probably wouldn't have walked unknowingly into some field or towards the lights of the power plant. I'd expect that from someone who is a stranger.

I used to think that she might have wandered off into the field, but now I think she might have tried to walk on the road.

It is strange though that she didn't try to use her own cellphone, why use her husbands?

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, did the police ever say if the car was found on or off?
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  #108  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:21 PM
Shlock Homes Shlock Homes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goosedeals View Post
Officials were out taking pictures today in the area and had the traffic blocked at times. I didn't see it but someone that works at the power plant saw it when he was coming home.
Maybe they were trying to recreate the accident scene and figure out where she might have gone?
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  #109  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post

PS-I DO understand the cold, lived in upstate NY for most of my life...
You have my most sincere sympathies!
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  #110  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFacetious View Post
Any mention of blood in the car I have seen has been speculation. Though of course I could have missed something as WS has been my distraction lately, not my focus.


"There is nothing in the car to indicate any injury to her
. However, I think you have to take into consideration that the crash did kill her husband," Templeton said. "So, to say that she is not injured, I don't think we could just assume that. It was a crash serious enough that her husband died."


And SARX, I hadn't seen this clarification on the search area before:

More than two dozen searchers braved frigid 20-degree temperatures in an attempt to locate the missing woman. Investigators also conducted several aerial searches and brought in a team of tracking dogs, but they were unable to locate any sign of her.

"They searched for three miles in both directions of the crash site and two miles south. That is a pretty big area," Templeton said.


So I guess that they meant in a square (or a triangle?) when they said 2-6 miles? Both directions? There is only 2 directions from the crash site and then south? What happened to north? I am so confused.

However, I am gathering 3 miles to the east, 3 miles to the west, 2 miles to the south... that is 2-6 miles....

I still think she could have made it farther than that too. It's not like they went all the way out 3 miles and then searched their way IN. She could have still been walking while they were working their way out. So how far could she go if while they were searching those 3 miles, she was still walking for 24 hours?

That's just my opinion though... I watch too much "I Shouldn't Be Alive."

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/08/po...disappearance/
I think what the Sheriff meant was that they searched either way down to road, meaning east and west, and then south through the fields and such. They wouldn't have done an extensive search to the north because that is property of the nuclear power station, where security devices had not been tripped.
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  #111  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goosedeals View Post
Officials were out taking pictures today in the area and had the traffic blocked at times. I didn't see it but someone that works at the power plant saw it when he was coming home.
It's possible the pictures may have also been for insurance reasons as well. They haven't yet set a funeral for Dale (which must be terrible for their family), and expenses for things like that don't just appear out of nowhere, especially since (I would imagine) they would not be able to access any of Tanya's or the Shannons' joint accounts (for anything other than inspection) unless she is officially declared deceased.
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  #112  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:20 PM
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Below are just a few random samples of missing person searches and how they were later found.

====
“We have confirmation that Georgie is at peace,” his family wrote on Facebook. “His earthly body was found by the Maroon Creek Bridge in Truscott. An area that had been searched by the best Search and Rescue teams, dogs and our family… We ask for your continued prayers while we figure out what happened to Georgie.”

-----
Aldrich was found by members of Mountain Rescue – Aspen, who were off duty at the time. But after the official search was called off last Friday, they followed up on their pledge to keep looking for Aldrich.

"We started at the last known point, which was the bus stop and working around there. Quite frankly it was a fluke. It was not obvious at all," said Doug Paley of Mountain Rescue - Aspen.

====
BIG BEAR LAKE - A man missing since Thanksgiving weekend has been found dead buried in snow not far from where he wandered off.

The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department says the body of Bryson Lukacik was discovered Friday by contractors who were working on a property two blocks from a vacation cabin where Lukacik had been staying with his father and father's girlfriend.

-----
Bryson went downstairs after talking with his family and was believed to have gone to bed. Shortly after midnight early Saturday morning, his parents heard the front door open and close, KUSI news reports, but by the time they got their boots and jackets on, he was gone. A search outside failed to find him. The family notified authorities and a massive search was conducted including search dogs and a helicopter.

The Union-Tribune reports that Lukacik’s father, Joe, said it appeared that his son was trying to get into a home and snow from the roof fell on top of him. "He basically froze to death in the snow," Joe Lukacik said.

====
The body of 52-year-old Daniel Olds of Toutle was found Saturday by a family member. The body was located a short distance from Mr. Olds' residence, just off of a trail leading near his home.

The area had been searched many times but until the recent thawing had been covered by heavy snow. A sheriff's deputy had searched through the area just a short time prior to the body being discovered.

====
WOODLAND PARK, Colo. -- A frozen body found behind Woodland Park High School Wednesday has been identified as a missing mother.

Mindy Lee was reported missing on Nov. 26. Friends said the Manitou Springs woman got out of a truck near Woodland Park High School on Friday night and ran away. The 5-foot-3 inch woman was shoeless and wearing a red shirt and black pants.

At 8:13 a.m. Wednesday, officers found a woman's body near a shed across an athletic field from the high school, said Woodland Park Deputy Police Chief John Gomes.
The body was covered with snow, but a police officer spotted a patch of red clothing poking through snow, he said.

K-9 teams had searched the general area this past weekend.


http://www.newport-now.com/2010/12/14/body-found-in-colorado-snow-could-be-missing-rhode-islanders/
http://www2.turnto10.com/news/2010/dec/14/21/police-body-found-aspen-believed-be-aldrich-ar-325218/
http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_16773576
http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/node/4933
http://www.katu.com/news/local/36847924.html
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/25973363/detail.html
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  #113  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:40 PM
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And who was the young man with schzophrenia who was missing for a few years, I think..? then was found right by the side of the road within a few miles from him home..? They think that he was hidden under the snow drifts that the plows pushed to the side... anyone know who I'm talking about? I think his name was Lance..? from NH?
  #114  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Shlock Homes View Post
I'm assuming that the family is familiar with the area they were driving in, so I would guess that she probably wouldn't have walked unknowingly into some field or towards the lights of the power plant. I'd expect that from someone who is a stranger.

I used to think that she might have wandered off into the field, but now I think she might have tried to walk on the road.

It is strange though that she didn't try to use her own cellphone, why use her husbands?

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, did the police ever say if the car was found on or off?
BBM

Is there evidence that she used either? I missed it if there was.

Her phone was later found in the car but that doesn't mean she knew where it was.

Her husband's phone was pinging in the area of the crash but it's not doing that any more and I'm unsure whether LE ever found it.
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  #115  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:48 PM
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Here comes the next blast of weather. This will hamper further efforts for a time again I am sure. Still praying for some sort of closure, good or bad, for her family.
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  #116  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:09 PM
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I really really really wish those buildings and trees, bushes, undergrowth down around the 2700 block would be searched more thoroughly...if they haven't. And also at the front main gate area of the nuclear facility.

Just a thought, Do they use anything like a snowcat ( see link) up there?? It would give searchers chances to take turns and warm up, between being looking...not constantly exposed to the elements.
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  #117  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreshowtime View Post
I really really really wish those buildings and trees, bushes, undergrowth down around the 2700 block would be searched more thoroughly...if they haven't. And also at the front main gate area of the nuclear facility.

Just a thought, Do they use anything like a snowcat ( see link) up there?? It would give searchers chances to take turns and warm up, between being looking...not constantly exposed to the elements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowcat
I haven't ever seen a snow cat around here. Snowmobiles are fairly common. They aren't enclosed, but can move over the field as long as it was okay with the farmers. I don't know if it would mess with the ground in an undesirable way.
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  #118  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFacetious View Post
“I can tell you they were having a very good time together,” said Donna Baker, Dale Shannon’s sister. Baker attended the party too, she said.

The couple left the party, Dale driving Tanya’s car, between 11:30 p.m. and 12:30 a.m., Baker said.

The Shannons were driving to Baker’s home in Seneca, a trip that was a normal routine for them, Sheriff Tom Templeton said.
When did Donna Baker leave the party? Before or after Dale and Tanya? Would she have taken the same route home?
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  #119  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:53 PM
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Just a friendly reminder to those who have been using Google maps and the like to spot trees and brush she may have sought for shelter: Those maps haven't been updated in several years. The house I live in now has been here almost 5 years and still shows as a patch of green grass on those maps (and it's in the middle of town). So it's a good chance that the country foliage could have changed within 5 years as well and wouldn't be updated on those maps. Not saying drastic differences, being as some tree lines would likely still be there, but the farmers rotate crops and may have cut away some things for agricultural purposes.

Just a thought.
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  #120  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:15 PM
A_News_Junkie A_News_Junkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reb View Post
And who was the young man with schzophrenia who was missing for a few years, I think..? then was found right by the side of the road within a few miles from him home..? They think that he was hidden under the snow drifts that the plows pushed to the side... anyone know who I'm talking about? I think his name was Lance..? from NH?
I bet you are talking about Lorne Boulet.

April 18, 2006

Skeletal remains found Friday near Interstate 93 were identified yesterday as those of a Chichester man missing since 2001.

Lorne Boulet, 21, who suffered from schizophrenia, left his parents' home at about 5:30 p.m. July 29, 2001.
http://www.concordmonitor.com/articl...chichester-man
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  #121  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:30 PM
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Has a cause of death been released for Dale?

ETA: Sorry, they are waiting for tox reports:

Preliminary autopsy results indicate Dale Shannon died of spinal injuries consistent with a rear-end collision with a utility pole, according to LaSalle County Coroner Jody Bernard. Toxicology reports are expected next week.

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/state...cc4c03286.html
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  #122  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:34 PM
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Yes, that's him- thanks! But apparently my memory was playing tricks on me.... (which it does often).. there was actually no snow involved,, since he went missing in the summer and was found in the spring. Although obviously it did help hide his body in the winter season(s) while he was unaccounted for.
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  #123  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:50 PM
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sreshowtime sreshowtime is offline
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thanks CastleFan, yes that is true. No telling how things have changed...

Well, I was thinking mainly about the landscaping type areas around the buildings and entrance to the nuclear facility, not necessarily out in the fields/clearings. Maybe that kind of stuff is still there.
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  #124  
Old 12-16-2010, 12:30 AM
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On all the other cases, I agree... these were searches where they were missed.

The last one, Mindy Lee.... was complete incompetence. They just simply did not search until it was too late. They had plenty of time to find her (alive) before it snowed and they just didn't look.

Yes... I might still be a little bit bitter about that one.

I don't see that being an issue in Tanya's case. They appear to have actually been looking for her.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudajo View Post
Below are just a few random samples of missing person searches and how they were later found.

====
“We have confirmation that Georgie is at peace,” his family wrote on Facebook. “His earthly body was found by the Maroon Creek Bridge in Truscott. An area that had been searched by the best Search and Rescue teams, dogs and our family… We ask for your continued prayers while we figure out what happened to Georgie.”

-----
Aldrich was found by members of Mountain Rescue – Aspen, who were off duty at the time. But after the official search was called off last Friday, they followed up on their pledge to keep looking for Aldrich.

"We started at the last known point, which was the bus stop and working around there. Quite frankly it was a fluke. It was not obvious at all," said Doug Paley of Mountain Rescue - Aspen.

====
BIG BEAR LAKE - A man missing since Thanksgiving weekend has been found dead buried in snow not far from where he wandered off.

The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department says the body of Bryson Lukacik was discovered Friday by contractors who were working on a property two blocks from a vacation cabin where Lukacik had been staying with his father and father's girlfriend.

-----
Bryson went downstairs after talking with his family and was believed to have gone to bed. Shortly after midnight early Saturday morning, his parents heard the front door open and close, KUSI news reports, but by the time they got their boots and jackets on, he was gone. A search outside failed to find him. The family notified authorities and a massive search was conducted including search dogs and a helicopter.

The Union-Tribune reports that Lukacik’s father, Joe, said it appeared that his son was trying to get into a home and snow from the roof fell on top of him. "He basically froze to death in the snow," Joe Lukacik said.

====
The body of 52-year-old Daniel Olds of Toutle was found Saturday by a family member. The body was located a short distance from Mr. Olds' residence, just off of a trail leading near his home.

The area had been searched many times but until the recent thawing had been covered by heavy snow. A sheriff's deputy had searched through the area just a short time prior to the body being discovered.

====
WOODLAND PARK, Colo. -- A frozen body found behind Woodland Park High School Wednesday has been identified as a missing mother.

Mindy Lee was reported missing on Nov. 26. Friends said the Manitou Springs woman got out of a truck near Woodland Park High School on Friday night and ran away. The 5-foot-3 inch woman was shoeless and wearing a red shirt and black pants.

At 8:13 a.m. Wednesday, officers found a woman's body near a shed across an athletic field from the high school, said Woodland Park Deputy Police Chief John Gomes.
The body was covered with snow, but a police officer spotted a patch of red clothing poking through snow, he said.

K-9 teams had searched the general area this past weekend.


http://www.newport-now.com/2010/12/14/body-found-in-colorado-snow-could-be-missing-rhode-islanders/
http://www2.turnto10.com/news/2010/dec/14/21/police-body-found-aspen-believed-be-aldrich-ar-325218/
http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_16773576
http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/node/4933
http://www.katu.com/news/local/36847924.html
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/25973363/detail.html
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  #125  
Old 12-16-2010, 01:25 AM
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Here is the latest news article:

Rumors Hit Shannon Family Hard
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