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  #101  
Old 01-15-2011, 08:54 PM
i.b.nora i.b.nora is offline
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This article dated today, has six died, thirteen wounded, including Giffords.

Portraits of those killed, wounded in Arizona

Posted: Jan 15, 2011 2:07 PM Updated: Jan 15, 2011 4:27 PM
By The Associated Press


TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) - A look at those killed and injured Jan. 8, 2011, in the deadly shootings in Arizona that targeted U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

Has this to say about Fuller:

"J. Eric Fuller described the shootings as "a bad crime drama." Fuller said on CBS's "The Early Show" that he felt the bullet that hit his knee but didn't know he had also been struck in the back. He said he didn't know how to react and felt the victims "were in for more." Fuller said he is lucky and feels fine physically, but is outraged that Giffords was attacked. According to the Arizona Daily Star, Fuller, a naval air veteran, drove himself to Northwest Hospital after being shot. He was later taken to University Medical Center where he was released two days later."
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  #102  
Old 01-15-2011, 09:02 PM
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i.b.nora, thank you. I've seen it gradually change throughout the week. I thought it was errors, (there are errors too), but the Sheriff said the official count was 20 last week. I think on Sunday. The 20th person he said was the person in the above article who drove himself to the hospital. Then it gradually became 19. Guess I can call someone about that.

I'd rather read 19 than 20.
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  #103  
Old 01-15-2011, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by i.b.nora View Post
This article dated today, has six died, thirteen wounded, including Giffords.

Portraits of those killed, wounded in Arizona

Posted: Jan 15, 2011 2:07 PM Updated: Jan 15, 2011 4:27 PM
By The Associated Press


TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) - A look at those killed and injured Jan. 8, 2011, in the deadly shootings in Arizona that targeted U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

Has this to say about Fuller:

"J. Eric Fuller described the shootings as "a bad crime drama." Fuller said on CBS's "The Early Show" that he felt the bullet that hit his knee but didn't know he had also been struck in the back. He said he didn't know how to react and felt the victims "were in for more." Fuller said he is lucky and feels fine physically, but is outraged that Giffords was attacked. According to the Arizona Daily Star, Fuller, a naval air veteran, drove himself to Northwest Hospital after being shot. He was later taken to University Medical Center where he was released two days later."
Fuller is a hard core Democratic party insider around here locally, he is very very outraged about Gabby getting shot, now he is getting himself in to trouble:


Shooting rampage victim arrested at ABC-TV town hall meeting


Posted: Jan 15, 2011 1:51 PM
Updated: Jan 15, 2011 7:00 PM
Video Gallery

Rampage victims, heroes reunite at ABC-TV Tucson town hall meeting
2:37

The scene at St. Odilia's as the town hall meeting room began to fill up, shortly after 10:00 AM (via cell phone)

Christiane Amanpour preparing for the start of the program (via cell phone)

Participants rest during a brief break about an hour into the taping (via cell phone)

Reporters: Forrest Carr, Sheryl Kornman and Joel Waldman

TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - Two things are clear from Saturday's ABC News town hall meeting in Tucson. One: Tucsonans are eager to move forward and recover from last week's horrible shooting rampage. And two: that process is going to be slow and painful. That latter point was driven home by the arrest of a shooting victim, who threatened a speaker during the taping of the program.

ABC News Anchor Christiane Amanpour hosted the remarkable gathering of victims, heroes, witnesses and first responders.

Probably the most emotional moment came when Bill Hileman talked about his wife Susan's dual struggle: physical and emotional. The youngest victim who died in the shooting, 9 year old Christina Taylor Green, was there because she wanted to meet Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. A neighbor took her to the "Congress On Your Corner" event. Susan Hileman was that neighbor. Bill Hileman said that his wife now struggles with the fact that she took a neighbor's child to the event, but was not able to bring her home again.

That's where the atmosphere turned tense. When Tucson Tea Party founder Trent Humphries rose to suggest that any conversation about gun control should be put off until after the funerals for all the victims, witnesses say Fuller became agitated. Two told KGUN9 News that finally, Fuller took a picture of Humphries, and said, "You're dead."

The irony could not be more pointed, or painful. One of the issues discussed in the town hall meeting was the question of why no police or mental health professionals had ever intervened with Jared Lee Loughner, despite his increasingly bizarre behavior that had included disruptive outbursts.

Afterwards, several participants told KGUN9 News that they hoped the outburst would not overshadow what they saw as the true message of the meeting: that Tucson is filled with good and decent people, and the community will get through this.

ABC did not allow KGUN9 to place a news photographer inside the meeting room during the program. However, ABC will broadcast the town hall meeting, entitled "After the Tragedy: An American Conversation Continued," Sunday. The network has given KGUN9-TV permission to air the broadcast twice. It can be seen at its regular time period of 7:00 AM Sunday (January 16) and also at 3:00 PM the same day.

ETA: http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13849741 Much, much more at link.

Snipped for copyright

Last edited by Salem; 01-15-2011 at 11:24 PM.
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  #104  
Old 01-15-2011, 09:50 PM
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I personally have never believed anyone who does something like this can be sane. But that's JMO, not in accordance with the legal definition of sanity, I guess.
I agree. But, no, that isn't the legal definition.
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  #105  
Old 01-15-2011, 09:54 PM
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I don't know if Jared Loughner is faking or not, but I think it is important to keep an open mind that he just may be faking. I keep thinking of the movie Primal Fear in which the murderer duped everyone into believing he had gone temporarily insane.
But if he's faking, he's been faking for years! And to what end? Just so he could kill a congresswoman and go to a hospital instead of prison? That sounds pretty crazy to me. (Not that it's likely he'll be found legally insane. That almost never happens any more.)
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  #106  
Old 01-15-2011, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by PAXIMUS View Post
Fuller is a hard core Democratic party insider around here locally, he is very very outraged about Gabby getting shot, now he is getting himself in to trouble....
Thanks, Pax. That's the sort of thing we might not hear about outside the state.

Very sad episode. I know they can't let Mr. Fuller make death threats, but I hope cooler heads will prevail by the time he comes to trial. This seems like a case for therapy, not incarceration.

Also can't help but note the name of the TV station. Posters above asked why Arizona was thought of by some as a "redneck" state. Having a TV station with the call letters "KGUN" might be a clue.
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  #107  
Old 01-15-2011, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Nova View Post
Thanks, Pax. That's the sort of thing we might not hear about outside the state.

Very sad episode. I know they can't let Mr. Fuller make death threats, but I hope cooler heads will prevail by the time he comes to trial. This seems like a case for therapy, not incarceration.

Also can't help but note the name of the TV station. Posters above asked why Arizona was thought of by some as a "redneck" state. Having a TV station with the call letters "KGUN" might be a clue.
KGUN never really occured to me I guess I am just used to it, the other stations are KOLD and KVOA, I never really thought of the GUN in KGUN to be completely honest with you but I guess from the outside looking in, in light of all that has happened, it would seem strange to the outsider.


Also FWIW, Fuller is a good friend of mine being we are both Democratic party insiders, he is a good guy and this whole thing is a mess, he is just very upset that Gabby was shot and pissed off at the political right and their stupid rifle crosshair symbolism etc, like many of us here are.

I can assure you one thing, Tucson is probably one of the least redneck cities in the entire nation, its very much a liberal arts community, lots of artists, museums, art studios, music studios, theatres, both live and film etc all around the community. Very, very few redneck racist types here, youd be hard pressed finding one. Certainly in other areas of Arizona there is some of that type of thing though but that is definitely not Tucson.
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  #108  
Old 01-15-2011, 11:45 PM
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We've lived here since mid 70's. I am pretty sure KGUN 9 has been here since then, if not before.
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  #109  
Old 01-16-2011, 12:09 AM
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We've lived here since mid 70's. I am pretty sure KGUN 9 has been here since then, if not before.
Yea its been around since at least the early 70s when I got here.
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  #110  
Old 01-16-2011, 09:26 AM
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But if he's faking, he's been faking for years! And to what end? Just so he could kill a congresswoman and go to a hospital instead of prison? That sounds pretty crazy to me. (Not that it's likely he'll be found legally insane. That almost never happens any more.)
Don't get me wrong. The guy is mentally unstable and some level of crazy, but that doesn't mean that he didn't know what he was doing nor that he didn't set things up to make it look like he is insane. There is something about the last minute loony video posts, the scrawled messages, chase through the desert, return for the bag with gun, cab ride, and the photo development drop-off that says premeditated and quite lucid.
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  #111  
Old 01-16-2011, 01:58 PM
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Don't get me wrong. The guy is mentally unstable and some level of crazy, but that doesn't mean that he didn't know what he was doing nor that he didn't set things up to make it look like he is insane. There is something about the last minute loony video posts, the scrawled messages, chase through the desert, return for the bag with gun, cab ride, and the photo development drop-off that says premeditated and quite lucid.
Also checking into the motel after midnight (hours before the shootings) paying with a credit card, being stopped for the traffic violation and subsequently taking a cab to the Safeway........other things that indicate he knew what he was doing and not a total break from reality or functionality. MOO
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  #112  
Old 01-16-2011, 05:43 PM
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I'm confused about how doing these things shows he wasn't insane. One of the articles said going to the hotel was something he had done before which indicates to me maybe it was his way of trying to escape the reality of his home life. Other than that, I see that this was something he had planned, but I don't know see how that means he's not crazy. Being crazy, to me, does not imply an inability to plan things out. I don't know- maybe I'm missing something.
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  #113  
Old 01-16-2011, 05:59 PM
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I'm confused about how doing these things shows he wasn't insane. One of the articles said going to the hotel was something he had done before which indicates to me maybe it was his way of trying to escape the reality of his home life. Other than that, I see that this was something he had planned, but I don't know see how that means he's not crazy. Being crazy, to me, does not imply an inability to plan things out. I don't know- maybe I'm missing something.
I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with him mentally, however, certain things he did leading up to the shooting show an ability to plan and in the legal sense of "insanity" know right from wrong. MOO
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  #114  
Old 01-16-2011, 06:07 PM
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I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with him mentally, however, certain things he did leading up to the shooting show an ability to plan and in the legal sense of "insanity" know right from wrong. MOO
I know what you mean. It's just that I've never really understood the legal definition of insane as it doesn't really (to me) seem to correlate to the DSM's definitions of mental illness. IMO, many people who are extremely mentally ill do know what "society" considers right and wrong, they just don't believe it applies to them. Therein, to me, lies their mental illness. And then there are those who may know right from wrong sometimes, but when they are having a break they can't stop to consider it.

I believe many know that something is considered wrong, but find themselves completely unable to resist the urgent compulsion to do it anyway, without medication.

There are just so many considerations when you are dealing with mental illness. Regardless of anything, I believe he was and is a very dangerous person who should never be in society again without medication and supervision. The question around his family life suggest that there might have been some genetic predisposition toward mental illness.
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Old 01-16-2011, 07:20 PM
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Thumbs up

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' condition upgraded

TUCSON, AZ -- Rep. Gabrielle Giffords condition is improving and she is now in serious condition at a hospital after being shot in the head about a week ago.

The University of Arizona said in a news release Sunday that the congresswoman is continuing to do well. The release says her condition changed from critical to serious because she is no longer on a ventilator. She is breathing on her own.

more at http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...rld&id=7901471
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Old 01-16-2011, 07:35 PM
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Thanks be to God! (or whoever your higher power is)...

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Old 01-16-2011, 07:44 PM
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Jan. 16, 2011
Loughner Friend: "World Was His Antagonist"

Scott Pelley Talks To Jared Loughner's Friends, Classmates and Ex-Secret Service

"I think that anyone who did not connect to his lines of thinking he had disdain for," says Tyler Conway in his first interview, one of the friends, who along with Bryce Tierney, describe their impression of Loughner's mental state to Scott Pelley for a "60 Minutes" story to be broadcast this Sunday, Jan. 16 at 8 p.m. ET, 7 p.m. CT/MT/PT.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...in;cbsCarousel
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:00 PM
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http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...ughner-reports

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Old 01-16-2011, 08:02 PM
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Coverage on 60 Minutes-right now- Eastern time
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:25 PM
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Coverage on 60 Minutes-right now- Eastern time
Interesting insight into the suspect.
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:40 PM
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Interesting insight into the suspect.
Two things of note: When they did the survey with the assassins (i.e. Chapman, Sirhan Sirhan) there was some major life catalyst before the shooting (as they indicated, JL being kicked out of school) and practicing with a weapon shortly before the incident was a strong indicator (as JL did)...I wonder how many cases we will have to keep saying "All the signs were there" about before we finally figure out a way to be proactive.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:52 PM
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I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with him mentally, however, certain things he did leading up to the shooting show an ability to plan and in the legal sense of "insanity" know right from wrong. MOO
Just because someone is off ballance does not mean he can not plan. Sadly MI comes in many ways.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:56 PM
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Every time I look at this photo and see his eyes, I can say that to me it is obvious that he is off balance.
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:27 AM
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Two things of note: When they did the survey with the assassins (i.e. Chapman, Sirhan Sirhan) there was some major life catalyst before the shooting (as they indicated, JL being kicked out of school) and practicing with a weapon shortly before the incident was a strong indicator (as JL did)...I wonder how many cases we will have to keep saying "All the signs were there" about before we finally figure out a way to be proactive.
So the next time someone has a major life catalyst and is seen practicing shooting a weapon, what exactly would we do? They are not breaking any laws by doing that. And if they don't want mental help, they cannot be forced just for those above reasons.
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:29 AM
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This is only a suspicion and nothing more but thought I'd put it out there. I am a local Tucsonan. I have a theory about Fuller who was arrested for making threats to the tea party member. He was supposedly the 20th person shot and was hit in the leg and a bullet grazed his back.

We saw him on local news the day after the shootings and he said he drove himself to the hospital. At the time I wondered how that would have been possible to even get out of the parking lot in that madhouse. And if you've been shot wouldn't you have some level of shock and not be calmly driving yourself to the hospital? There are two exits in that parking lot. Both you can not turn left. The hospital he drove himself to would have been a long way around but no doubt he did it, I can envision his route.

I have a feeling he shot himself. He is obviously an angry man, maybe looking for his 15 mins of fame?

Tonight on the news they showed police using night vision goggles to search the backyard of his house. What are they looking for? Of course they won’t say yet. And my apologies if I am incorrect, just a hunch because something is not right with this man.
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