NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #7 - Page 6

McSpy · #**126** 03-21-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSteve

All IMO, and I cannot site specific links to any news articles - so I may be wrong about this.... My feelings are based on reading the tons of stuff posted on other forums, including:
http://findmauramurray.21.forumer.co...topic.php?t=38

In my opinion, the bus driver didn't have enough time to hurt her and/or hide her according to the timeline. I also think the neighbors witnessed him pull away in the bus and she remained at the vehicle. There was some conflict as to whether it was Maura or a man with a cigarette with the neighbors (Westmans), but IMO, I think it was Maura. Mr. Westman thought the person in the car was a woman with a cell phone, but Mrs. Westman thought it was a man with a cigarette. I thought a light from a cell phone was a cigarette once, so I think Mrs. Westman was mistaken. Also, supposedly, the bus driver's wife was at home. Unless, the wife was in on it, I don't think the bus driver was involved. I think the contractor was more likely the culprit or a stranger not known to these boards or the police. JMO

McSpy · #**127** 03-21-2011, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSteve

All IMO, and I cannot site specific links to any news articles - so I may be wrong about this.... My feelings are based on reading the tons of stuff posted on other forums, including:
http://findmauramurray.21.forumer.co...topic.php?t=38

I found the thoughts and analysis of "peripeteia" there to be most interesting.

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

Weird Tolkienish F · #**128** 03-21-2011, 11:54 PM

There was a weird unexplained triple drowning about 5 miles away from Maura's accident the summer before she disappeared:

N.H. authorities baffled at triple drowning

Weird Tolkienish F · #**129** 03-23-2011, 12:36 AM

A poster here was positing a theory that Maura "willfully disappeared", took off on her own accord and doesn't wish to contact anyone. I thought it was BS but then again I just saw an episode of "Disappeared" where a girl willfully disappeared for 6 years and was found alive and her family basically said the same thing as Maura's... she'd "never do that" etc. While her family loves her it seemed like she was under a lot of pressure...

My understanding is that once someone moves even to another country it becomes very difficult to track them... and almost near impossible. Maybe Maura's in Europe somewhere... did Maura have a passport?

Consider this: Maura is missing but watches TV and feels tremendous guilt about people looking for her and for that reason finds it even harder to contact home.

McSpy · #**130** 03-23-2011, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Tolkienish F

A poster here was positing a theory that Maura "willfully disappeared", took off on her own accord and doesn't wish to contact anyone. I thought it was BS but then again I just saw an episode of "Disappeared" where a girl willfully disappeared for 6 years and was found alive and her family basically said the same thing as Maura's... she'd "never do that" etc. While her family loves her it seemed like she was under a lot of pressure...

My understanding is that once someone moves even to another country it becomes very difficult to track them... and almost near impossible. Maybe Maura's in Europe somewhere... did Maura have a passport?

Consider this: Maura is missing but watches TV and feels tremendous guilt about people looking for her and for that reason finds it even harder to contact home.

You never really know what's going on inside someone's head, but I guess it's my gut feeling she didn't take off. I saw that episode of Disappeared too, where it was discovered a woman was actually alive and living on the other side of the country. The difference was that she had a bad drug problem, which was causing a riff with her family. She felt her parents didn't love her, but they were just hating her behavior--not her. I believe there was a lot of drama before that woman took off and it had gone on for quite sometime. I also think it isn't that common for someone to just disappear and be found alive years later. With Maura, I think she would have come to her senses after a day or two. I guess I will be very surprised if Maura came forward alive and well.

If she did take off, which I doubt very much, I don't think she went to Europe. She would have needed a passport. She had no money and no clothes. She didn't even realize that you need to have a lot more lead time to rent a condo. To me, she was a little naive about things like that, so I can't imagine her hunting down a fake ID and applying for a passport.

Weird Tolkienish F · #**131** 03-26-2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSpy

You never really know what's going on inside someone's head, but I guess it's my gut feeling she didn't take off. I saw that episode of Disappeared too, where it was discovered a woman was actually alive and living on the other side of the country. The difference was that she had a bad drug problem, which was causing a riff with her family. She felt her parents didn't love her, but they were just hating her behavior--not her. I believe there was a lot of drama before that woman took off and it had gone on for quite sometime. I also think it isn't that common for someone to just disappear and be found alive years later. With Maura, I think she would have come to her senses after a day or two. I guess I will be very surprised if Maura came forward alive and well.

If she did take off, which I doubt very much, I don't think she went to Europe. She would have needed a passport. She had no money and no clothes. She didn't even realize that you need to have a lot more lead time to rent a condo. To me, she was a little naive about things like that, so I can't imagine her hunting down a fake ID and applying for a passport.

Sometimes it feels like any given scenario is equally as likely as all the others.

McSpy · #**132** 03-27-2011, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Tolkienish F

Sometimes it feels like any given scenario is equally as likely as all the others.

I wonder if LE has anything on someone? They claimed in court (when Fred Murray sued them) that they have 75% of the case solved, if I remember correctly. LE didn't want to divulge their case information to Maura's family, because it may jeopardize possible future prosecution of a perp. They may very well have their eye on someone. Yet, maybe they don't want to admit they have nothing.

lieber32 · #**133** 03-27-2011, 01:32 AM

I read about Fred Murrays lawsuit to get info and thought about commenting on it but forgot. I for a living sell police reports to the public and when I read that it really jumped out at me. If the police had nothing then more of that police report would be available to Fred Murray or any other outlet for information. Its hard for me to explain this but I'll try. Say you have a robbery but no suspect, then you not only get incident and property stolen but the whole narrative. If there was a suspect however you get only incident (one page telling you when, where, what happened) and property but no narrative. From reading what I have read I honestly believe that their is a suspect, if charged his name would stay in and be open to Fred Murray if not it wouldn't be. Also if suspect was wanted name and charges would be left out. Also I've learned that the public perception of a incident gets distorted by the media. Not blaming media as most info is confidential and closed to the public but I've read hundreds of police reports that didn't match what media was reporting at all. I firmly believe based on my work that there is way more to this then we know.

Weird Tolkienish F · #**134** 03-27-2011, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSpy

I wonder if LE has anything on someone? They claimed in court (when Fred Murray sued them) that they have 75% of the case solved, if I remember correctly. LE didn't want to divulge their case information to Maura's family, because it may jeopardize possible future prosecution of a perp. They may very well have their eye on someone. Yet, maybe they don't want to admit they have nothing.

Really? Do you have a link? Because that was 2006 or so wasn't it?

I Care · #**135** 03-28-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Tolkienish F

Really? Do you have a link? Because that was 2006 or so wasn't it?

Yes it was from 2006. As testified by Senior Assistant Attorney General Jeff Strelzin.

Quote:

Prosecutor: Maura Murray Case Could Result in Charges
BY MARK DAVIS
Valley News Staff Writer

NORTH HAVERHILL - A state prosecutor said yesterday there's still a "75 percent chance" he'll file criminal charges in the case of a Massachusetts college student who vanished in Haverhill in 2004. But he said releasing investigative records as requested by the student's father could ruin the potential prosecution.

http://image16.webshots.com/16/0/23/...3hhBRRV_fs.jpg

KLCD620 · #**136** 03-28-2011, 10:42 AM

The above link is forbidden as I cannot open it for read.

I Care · #**137** 03-28-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLCD620

The above link is forbidden as I cannot open it for read.

Sorry, I didn't notice. If you really want to see it, you need to sign up or login at webshots.com Otherwise there are other news articles that you can reference for the same or similar information:

http://southshorexpress.com/maura-is...ver-files.html

http://southshorexpress.com/maura-is...ay-family.html

I Care · #**138** 03-28-2011, 11:39 AM

Clicking on the link gives me the 403 error as well. You could also try the following which worked for me: right click the link and "copy shortcut", then paste it into the address bar at the top of your browser.

OldSteve · #**139** 03-28-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSpy

I wonder if LE has anything on someone? They claimed in court (when Fred Murray sued them) that they have 75% of the case solved, if I remember correctly. LE didn't want to divulge their case information to Maura's family, because it may jeopardize possible future prosecution of a perp. They may very well have their eye on someone. Yet, maybe they don't want to admit they have nothing.

I think I once read that Fred felt that LE came up with 75% just to deny him access to the records.... Considering it's been 5 years since this was mentioned, he may be right!

KLCD620 · #**140** 03-28-2011, 12:29 PM

I think they didn't want do anything with the missing case (gave up after fruitless search) and they'll wait until the hiker(s)/hunter(s) found the remains from the deep VT/NH/ME woods anytime in the future. It's painful waiting for Fred & his family.

Weird Tolkienish F · #**141** 03-28-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSteve

I think I once read that Fred felt that LE came up with 75% just to deny him access to the records.... Considering it's been 5 years since this was mentioned, he may be right!

In law I believe that you first need to prove that a crime was committed before you can prove someone committed a crime. In the case of murder 99% of the time this means that you need a body (or parts) before you may bring someone to trial. Maybe all the pieces are in place, they just need a body? Have they ever searched anyone's private property with a warrant?

McSpy · #**142** 03-29-2011, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Tolkienish F

In law I believe that you first need to prove that a crime was committed before you can prove someone committed a crime. In the case of murder 99% of the time this means that you need a body (or parts) before you may bring someone to trial. Maybe all the pieces are in place, they just need a body? Have they ever searched anyone's private property with a warrant?

I don't think there were any search warrants issued on this case.

McSpy · #**143** 03-29-2011, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Tolkienish F

In law I believe that you first need to prove that a crime was committed before you can prove someone committed a crime. In the case of murder 99% of the time this means that you need a body (or parts) before you may bring someone to trial. Maybe all the pieces are in place, they just need a body? Have they ever searched anyone's private property with a warrant?

I think LE may have some circumstantial evidence along with a gut feeling about someone, but not enough for a Judge's approval for a search warrant. Since there is no body, no evidence of a crime scene, or any witnesses of a crime, LE could be just working on gut feelings and scant evidence, but it isn't enough to move forward.

I'm just guessing on this.

McSpy · #**144** 03-29-2011, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSteve

I think I once read that Fred felt that LE came up with 75% just to deny him access to the records.... Considering it's been 5 years since this was mentioned, he may be right!

You could be right, but maybe after LE talked to a few people about Maura's disappearance, they ran into something that didn't add up. Perhaps, someone lied about their whereabouts at the time or some other untruths were told.
Just a thought.

McSpy · #**145** 03-29-2011, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Tolkienish F

There was a weird unexplained triple drowning about 5 miles away from Maura's accident the summer before she disappeared:

N.H. authorities baffled at triple drowning

Tragic! To me, it looks like the kids may have got into trouble in the deep water. The mom tried to save them, but the kids panicked and dragged her under the water by hanging on her. It's one of the dangers of trying to rescue drowning victims.

Emma24 · #**146** 03-29-2011, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSteve

Considering Maura didn't accept help from the SBD

I guess we only have the word of the bus driver that she didn't go with him. Maybe she got into his bus.

OldSteve · #**147** 03-29-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma24

I guess we only have the word of the bus driver that she didn't go with him. Maybe she got into his bus.

I have mixed feeling about the school bus driver (SBD) from all I've read over the years. He was the last person to see her and actually id her. Her last steps were traced to just in front of his driveway by tracking dogs.

It would be interesting to stand outside that location on a similiar night an see how many cars go by. Of course, it only took one...

Weird Tolkienish F · #**148** 03-29-2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSteve

I have mixed feeling about the school bus driver (SBD) from all I've read over the years. He was the last person to see her and actually id her. Her last steps were traced to just in front of his driveway by tracking dogs.

It would be interesting to stand outside that location on a similiar night an see how many cars go by. Of course, it only took one...

I had thought it was in the opposite direct? Look at Google maps at the crash site, the dogs tracked her to right in front of Bradley Hill Road... is that where his house is? I thought it was the opposite way? It's hard to see the SBD as a suspect because he called police ASAP and had a wife, etc. My gut reaction to seeing his interview on Disappeared was that he was not involved other than talking to her.

OldSteve · #**149** 03-29-2011, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Tolkienish F

I had thought it was in the opposite direct? Look at Google maps at the crash site, the dogs tracked her to right in front of Bradley Hill Road... is that where his house is? I thought it was the opposite way? It's hard to see the SBD as a suspect because he called police ASAP and had a wife, etc. My gut reaction to seeing his interview on Disappeared was that he was not involved other than talking to her.

Lots to read, especially what "peripeteia" has to say at
http://findmauramurray.21.forumer.co...topic.php?t=38

The above thread and all the others there is mind-boggling!

McSpy · #**150** 03-31-2011, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma24

I guess we only have the word of the bus driver that she didn't go with him. Maybe she got into his bus.

The neighbors, who were looking out their window, saw the bus leave and saw Maura still with the car.