NE - Omaha Double Murder #3 - Page 5

Snick1946 · #**101** 03-13-2011, 08:06 PM

Please check out this link to a thread on the above mentioned website concerning this case:

http://www.omaha.com/article/2011031...or-single-case

Pay careful attention to the fifth post down. Notice anything odd about it? It is a copy and paste from my post on the original thread on Websleuths. The last paragraph is not. It is apparently part of a personal message I sent to someone in the past nad was just put out there by the poster.

The poster is 'Darkpassanger91'. I do not mind someone posting my comments even without attribution. I do mind greatly this person putting out for all the world to see a fragment of a confidental communication. I do not know if this poster is someone also on this board but if so, please use a little common sense in posting stuff from another researcher in the future.

BTW I cannot contact anyone in charge of that site.

YellowDog · #**102** 03-13-2011, 08:18 PM

When I click on that link, Snick, I only get the article. I don't see any postings. Do you have to be signed in to the website?

Isn't that "plagerism"? That would infuriate me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snick1946

Please check out this link to a thread on the above mentioned website concerning this case:

http://www.omaha.com/article/2011031...or-single-case

Pay careful attention to the fifth post down. Notice anything odd about it? It is a copy and paste from my post on the original thread on Websleuths. The last paragraph is not. It is apparently part of a personal message I sent to someone in the past nad was just put out there by the poster.

The poster is 'Darkpassanger91'. I do not mind someone posting my comments even without attribution. I do mind greatly this person putting out for all the world to see a fragment of a confidental communication. I do not know if this poster is someone also on this board but if so, please use a little common sense in posting stuff from another researcher in the future.

BTW I cannot contact anyone in charge of that site.

annemc2 · #**103** 03-13-2011, 10:03 PM

I can't see any comments, either. And yes, that would really tick me off, too. Was the information transmitted via PM? If so, that would be even more infuriating.

Snick1946 · #**104** 03-13-2011, 10:14 PM

OK let's try this link:

http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.com...fbff1ea5b07435

My apologies for the error..

waltzingmatilda · #**105** 03-14-2011, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snick1946

A few random thoughts on reading today's article:

I would love to know what the list of names Dr Hunter was shown was all about. This is intriguing. None were apparently CU students or staf members. Could they possibly be possible on-line friends of Tom?

Then a day or so later the lead detective drops by. He wants to look the house over again. My take: they have a theory and are testing it; can it be related to the list of names?

The FBI profile indicated a possible transient serial killer. OPD sounds to now want to resubmit some new evidence to their experts. Can they now have evidence that they think may lead the FBI to a different conclusion?

The Hunters apparently have had a PI investigating this for awhile. I was glad to hear this. It tends to disprove any possible connection to their family and also a PI can go places and do things LE cannot. It sounds that OPD is not opposing this. The man they retained is the best they could have, he has a good reputation as a tough investigator.

Just wanted to clarify something from your post Snick. It was the Sherman's who hired a PI according to the article.

Omaha private investigator Tom Gorgen said he has worked off and on for the Sherman family on the case. The former Omaha police detective sergeant said he's looking into various people who interacted with the Hunters at Creighton.

“The background we've done on Shirlee's family has not revealed anyone to be associated with these homicides,” Gorgen said. “The investigation with Creighton University is still ongoing. I have hired additional investigators in other states to assist with the investigation.”

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110313/NEWS97/703139919

wm

waltzingmatilda · #**106** 03-14-2011, 09:51 AM

JMO, but Snick if it were me, I would send a tip to OPD regarding that site. It may or may not be legit but it disturbs me that someone would do such a thing.

Criminals these days are very tech saavy and follow their crimes on forums and blogs on the www. I don't mean to sound alarmist about this but we have no way of knowing who Darkpassenger91 really is. The posters handle itself freaks me out. This person is a poser, IMHO. Disturbing that Dark took your words and used as his own.

Remember when three of us WS' had our computers hacked a year or so ago? Just sayin...

Stay safe.

MOO

wm

waltzingmatilda · #**107** 03-14-2011, 10:35 AM

OK, I have re-read the OWH article and am listing things we did not previously know. Please feel free to add to the list if I omitted anything. I thought this way we could discuss different aspects of the case if we have a list.

* the suspect parked on a side street about a block from the Hunter home.

* the suspect wore a dark 'suit', white shirt and carried a dark colored satchel or briefcase over his shoulder.

* the suspect left little evidence behind, except for bloody knives.

* Shirlee cleaned the Hunter home about 1 x per week.

Fair use...
http://www.omaha.com/article/20110313/NEWS97/703139919

more in next post......

wm

waltzingmatilda · #**108** 03-14-2011, 11:04 AM

~Continued~

Updates regarding the investigation.....

* A former Creighton pathology student Michael Belenky has been questioned regarding the case. MB is currently being investigated in Calgary, Alberta Canada for discrepancies on autopsy reports. (not included in article but I wanted to note this tidbit)

* Last month, (Feb) Det. Herout with OPD met with Dr Bill Hunter with a list of names but Dr. H didn't recognize any of them.

* Days later, [the nice looking and dedicated, (my words)

] Det. Ken Kangar visited the Hunter home on a Saturday to get a better visual understanding of the home and talked with Dr H for about 30 minutes.

* Tom Gurgen, a PI hired by the Sherman family is looking at CU people who may have interacted with the Hunters. Sherman's family background has not anyone to be associated with the homicides.

* Summer '08, FBI assisted with computer forensics and criminal profiling. Behavior profilers determined these were random homicides by a transient serial killer.

* The investigation has changed considerably since then and at some point the FBI profilers will be re-approached with additional details per Chief Hayes with OPD.

Ok sleuths, have at it! We have lot's of new info to sleuth and speculate and give our opinions and

about, I know I have some about each point I mentioned.

Like I said earlier, if someone notices something I left out, please add to the list as needed.

To the Hunter and Sherman families. I am so sorry that this happened to your dear ones. If you read here, then I know it must be difficult to read some of the thoughts and ideas we express. Please know that we mean no disrespect to you or your deceased family members. We are strangers from the outside looking in with hopes of helping solve this case for no other reason than because we care. Please keep the faith, that's all we have really.

Respectfully, wm

Snick1946 · #**109** 03-14-2011, 11:21 AM

Great eyes, WM! Thanks for the correction on the source of the PI's involvement. This sort of thing does not come cheap and the Sherman family no doubt has gtone to a lot of expense to determine what happened. I am sure Shirlee's mom would move heaven and earth to find out and see justice done.
I second your personal aside to the families. I do know both families are following this thread because I have heard from one family and am told by someone who knows the other that they are doing so. In both cases I was given the understanding that they appreciate all our efforts. Or, most of them. There have been some injured feelings in the past but that was resolved.
I keep thinking about the list of names and what that could be. I wonder if it is a list of persons who fit some profile in the area. Or as I mentioned, could it be some people that Tom knew through his on line activities?
I am very encouraged about the brief visit the lead detective made. It tells me something's cooking. The fact they may resubmit for re-profiling tells me they now have evidence to contradict the serial killer conclusion.

waltzingmatilda · #**110** 03-14-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snick1946

Great eyes, WM! Thanks for the correction on the source of the PI's involvement. This sort of thing does not come cheap and the Sherman family no doubt has gtone to a lot of expense to determine what happened. I am sure Shirlee's mom would move heaven and earth to find out and see justice done.
I second your personal aside to the families. I do know both families are following this thread because I have heard from one family and am told by someone who knows the other that they are doing so. In both cases I was given the understanding that they appreciate all our efforts. Or, most of them. There have been some injured feelings in the past but that was resolved.
I keep thinking about the list of names and what that could be. I wonder if it is a list of persons who fit some profile in the area. Or as I mentioned, could it be some people that Tom knew through his on line activities?
I am very encouraged about the brief visit the lead detective made. It tells me something's cooking. The fact they may resubmit for re-profiling tells me they now have evidence to contradict the serial killer conclusion.

Thanks Snick, I feel so badly for Mrs. Banks. She is 81 years old and living out the rest of her days wondering who murdered her baby girl. (As a parent, I know that one always looks upon their offspring as their babies, no matter their age) And Tom was really just a baby! That pic of him in the OWH article is heartbreaking....he was only a boy.

The OPD visits to the Hunter home are interesting to me and here's why.......

In '06 two federal marshalls knocked on my door, they were investigating my ex husband (the split was 2000). My daughter and I had moved in with my bf due to being afraid of ex.. Ex was a successful, respected businessman who 'went bad' and was on the lam and was being hunted. (I'll try not to get too off topic here with the juicy details)

There were 2 agents....one asked me questions and took notes, the other one stood silently and observed everything and I mean Ev. Ery. Thing! He observed me and my actions.....he looked around the room and absorbed ev.ery.thing. around him. I am an artist and I have alot of art displayed and he had plenty to absorb, poor man.

It occured to me after they left that the one cop was asking me questions and keeping my mind occupied while the other conducted a mental assessment of our home. They were very polite and professional and we had a good rapport and I gave them names of people who I knew were his friends, but many years had passed so I don't know if I was very helpful and there were no repeat visits for more info. (the experience was unnerving, nonetheless)

My point is......there is a reason that law officers make these visits. There is alot of information to be gleaned from observing body language and the dwelling in general. It is kind of like a fishing expedition...

MOO

wm

omaha · #**111** 03-14-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda

Thanks Snick, I feel so badly for Mrs. Banks. She is 81 years old and living out the rest of her days wondering who murdered her baby girl. (As a parent, I know that one always looks upon their offspring as their babies, no matter their age) And Tom was really just a baby! That pic of him in the OWH article is heartbreaking....he was only a boy.

The OPD visits to the Hunter home are interesting to me and here's why.......

In '06 two federal marshalls knocked on my door, they were investigating my ex husband (the split was 2000). My daughter and I had moved in with my bf due to being afraid of ex.. Ex was a successful, respected businessman who 'went bad' and was on the lam and was being hunted. (I'll try not to get too off topic here with the juicy details)

There were 2 agents....one asked me questions and took notes, the other one stood silently and observed everything and I mean Ev. Ery. Thing! He observed me and my actions.....he looked around the room and absorbed ev.ery.thing. around him. I am an artist and I have alot of art displayed and he had plenty to absorb, poor man.

It occured to me after they left that the one cop was asking me questions and keeping my mind occupied while the other conducted a mental assessment of our home. They were very polite and professional and we had a good rapport and I gave them names of people who I knew were his friends, but many years had passed so I don't know if I was very helpful and there were no repeat visits for more info. (the experience was unnerving, nonetheless)

My point is......there is a reason that law officers make these visits. There is alot of information to be gleaned from observing body language and the dwelling in general. It is kind of like a fishing expedition...

MOO

wm

I'm personally glad that we're getting more info, and applaud the World Herald for continuing to push whatever they can out there.

It's interesting WM based on your experience then that according to the article that only Kanger went to visit Mr. Hunter.

Anyone have any ideas why OPD hasn't re-submitted notes to the FBI? This comment put me off. If they think it's not a serial killer, why wait three years to resubmit? As far as we know they interviewed MB more than a year ago? It can't take that long to analyze DNA. What could cause the delay, or resistance to AMW and the FBI… Thoughts?

omaha · #**112** 03-14-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coastal

BBM. This just jumps off the page, doesn't it? So...discordant, and so very cold. Who in the round blue world could do that?

I can't tell you how happy I am that they got a neighbor on the record!

And from the comment we know he wasn't one of the witnesses. Interesting.

waltzingmatilda · #**113** 03-14-2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omaha

I'm personally glad that we're getting more info, and applaud the World Herald for continuing to push whatever they can out there.

It's interesting WM based on your experience then that according to the article that only Kanger went to visit Mr. Hunter.

Anyone have any ideas why OPD hasn't re-submitted notes to the FBI? This comment put me off. If they think it's not a serial killer, why wait three years to resubmit? As far as we know they interviewed MB more than a year ago? It can't take that long to analyze DNA. What could cause the delay, or resistance to AMW and the FBI… Thoughts?

IDK, Omaha. I find it interesting that Kangar visited on a Saturday. I think that an officer of his stature would be working a 9 to 5 job but then that's just my thinking and I know nothing about LE schedules. Perhaps there was not enough manpower on a Sat for someone to accompany Kangar. It sure makes sense to always have another body present for an official visit. (from my observations/experience)

Interesting that you question OPD's resistance towards AMW and FBI assistance. There was a quote in the OWH article from OPD stating that 'they' appreciated outside help. (regarding the PI hired by the Sherman family) However, 'their' actions seem to be quite the opposite, IMO.

Moo....wm

omaha · #**114** 03-14-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda

IDK, Omaha. I find it interesting that Kangar visited on a Saturday. I think that an officer of his stature would be working a 9 to 5 job but then that's just my thinking and I know nothing about LE schedules. Perhaps there was not enough manpower on a Sat for someone to accompany Kangar. It sure makes sense to always have another body present for an official visit. (from my observations/experience)

Interesting that you question OPD's resistance towards AMW and FBI assistance. There was a quote in the OWH article from OPD stating that 'they' appreciated outside help. (regarding the PI hired by the Sherman family) However, 'their' actions seem to be quite the opposite, IMO.

Moo....wm

That's what I was trying to get at. I think they're happy to have the PI involved, if he can catch something they missed, great. But objectively, why would they not want the FBI or AMW involved. I've been thinking about it and can't get anywhere.

To me, the weekend visit seems to speak of the character that the OWH mentioned of Kangar. He's hard-nosed, and wants answers. Wonder if he visited the Shermans as well?

mac6831 · #**115** 03-14-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omaha

I can't tell you how happy I am that they got a neighbor on the record!

And from the comment we know he wasn't one of the witnesses. Interesting.

I concur! I wonder why the only neighbor quoted in this article was not one of the original witnesses. Did the others not want to be interviewed? For the record, the neighbor quoted lives across the street and one house south of the Hunters. I did some searching and found out names of some of the other neighbors which I won't list for privacy sake (even though it was all found via public record). The house just north of the Hunters sold in Aug 2009. The others all lived in their current homes at the time of the murders.

John Ferak is the staff writer who wrote the article. Anyone interested in contacting him ? Contact the writer: 402-444-1056, john.ferak@owh.com

YellowDog · #**116** 03-14-2011, 06:35 PM

Perhaps Kanger visited the house on Saturday because the Hunters would be off work and it would be more convenient for them.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that, if the olive skinned stranger was not the killer, entry could have been gained through the back door, side door at the porte cochere or even possiibly through a basement window. This to me would seem more logical if the killer was someone from the neighborhood. Shirley could have even recognized the person if they lived nearby and willingly admitted them through the back door.

waltzingmatilda · #**117** 03-16-2011, 01:46 PM

I always keep my eyes open for crimes similar to this one. This story caught my eye today.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42110051...me_and_courts/

You just never know what will set somebody off or what makes these types of people tick! This, ahem, unusual person had quit taking his meds and broke up with his girlfriend. But they had gotten back together the day before the crime....and... I'll just let you all read the details for yourselves.

Apologies for the OT but I wanted to bump the thread anyway to keep it current.

wm

Snick1946 · #**118** 03-17-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda

I always keep my eyes open for crimes similar to this one. This story caught my eye today.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42110051...me_and_courts/

You just never know what will set somebody off or what makes these types of people tick! This, ahem, unusual person had quit taking his meds and broke up with his girlfriend. But they had gotten back together the day before the crime....and... I'll just let you all read the details for yourselves.

Apologies for the OT but I wanted to bump the thread anyway to keep it current.

wm

Great link, WM.

I was struck by the fact that this perp testified that killing someone was just something he had to get out of his system. Apparently he thought once he did it, he wouldnt be tormented by the desire to do it again.
It's chilling to think we may be dealing with someone like him in this crime. Someone, perhaps local, who just felt like going out that day and satisfying the urge to kill someone.

BTW, my best wishes to all for a happy St Pat's day! This may seem out of place in this thread but we all need to realize life goes on.

YellowDog · #**119** 03-17-2011, 01:22 PM

How in the world does someone walk into a house in broad daylight in a nice neighbrohood, slash two people's throats, walk out and go about their business? It blows my mind.

Was this caused by something as trivial as a spat between two people, a teasing incident, an irritable neighbor over some small childish incident, a rebuffing of sexual advances, a planned kidnapping gone awry?

I just can't buy into a total stranger going into a home and doing this.

waltzingmatilda · #**120** 03-17-2011, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowDog

How in the world does someone walk into a house in broad daylight in a nice neighbrohood, slash two people's throats, walk out and go about their business? It blows my mind.

Was this caused by something as trivial as a spat between two people, a teasing incident, an irritable neighbor over some small childish incident, a rebuffing of sexual advances, a planned kidnapping gone awry?

I just can't buy into a total stranger going into a home and doing this.

I know YD! Very arrogant and self assured to do such a thing in broad daylight, IMO.

I thought the link was interesting too. I don't know that I have ever read such details in MSM from a killer. It is interesting to read a killers demented reasoning for committing such a terrible crime.

I just hope that OPD is making progress. I do hope to hear more updates on the case other than once per year on the anniversary of the murders. (although there was the recent info from Canada re MB)

Tom and Shirlee deserve justice!

MOO

wm

ETA...YD, I hope you and everyone here have a happy St. Paddy's Day too! There's a hint of spring in the air here in the east on a warm sunny day...and the grass is really green!

Snick1946 · #**121** 03-19-2011, 04:11 PM

Today I made a return visit to the area of the Hunter residence, accompanied by my wife; she grew up in the area and had some knowledge of the houses etc.
First, I think it was very possible for someone across the street and even down the street a bit to have wittnessed the POI on the front porch. The house directly across the street has two large windows in front, and several upstairs. There is an unimpeded view of the porch area of the Hunter residence from there, I had wanted to check that out at this time of year before the tree foilage was in.
That neighborhood is a maize of streets. There are several places where the POI could have parked at a distance and walked. For some reason I always imagined him parking north of the residence. My wife said no, she'd bet he'd parked on the next street east. That is a dead end street with the houses on the west side backing onto the area of the Hunter residence.
This is where it gets interesting. I had always thought- and so posted- that there was a high wall in the rear of the Hunter home, there isn't. In fact from a quick glance it looks as if there is a hedge forming the back border between the properties. So, he could have parked there, walked around on the walk to the next block and gone to the front porch. After he left he could have cut through the back yard to where his car was parked! This would also mean he'd approached the Hunter home from the south, this would have meant he'd only have cut through one yard, only one house to the south of the Hunters before the corner.
I'd like to find a small scale map of the area to post a link to, I think this may be hard to follow. Ths would account for how he was able to leave the area cleanly. Unless someone in the house in back was home he could have been bloody and not have aroused attention.
One chilling thought. If this were a serial killer, he could not have chosen a better place to make a getaway from a crime. Wittnesses would be confused as to which way he went, etc.
Has anyone ever read in the accounts which direction he was walking from when he approached the house?

YellowDog · #**122** 03-19-2011, 07:57 PM

I've always visualized the stranger coming from the direction away from the Hunter's driveway from a photo I saw on here of the house quite some time ago. That is sheer speculation on my part though. Not knowing which direction the house faces, I'm unable to know whether it would be north or south. If the house faces west, it would be north.

Snick1946 · #**123** 03-22-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowDog

I've always visualized the stranger coming from the direction away from the Hunter's driveway from a photo I saw on here of the house quite some time ago. That is sheer speculation on my part though. Not knowing which direction the house faces, I'm unable to know whether it would be north or south. If the house faces west, it would be north.

The houses faces west.I also always visualized this guy walking toward the house from the left (north) as you face the house. One point I was trying to make is that the strets in that area run every which way- he could have easily parked nearby and the car would still have been out of sight. Also if the FBI is correct inj this being a serial killer he could have chosen that home to attack simply on the basis of the neighborhood providing easy concealment and escape.

YellowDog · #**124** 03-22-2011, 12:36 PM

I wonder what the FBI bases their theory of a "serial killer" on? Have there been similar killings in that area that we don't know about? I know the Anderson deaths were ruled a murder/suicide (even though their children did not believe this) but could they have also been victims of a random serial killer? Their deaths keep coming back to mind when I think of the Hunter/Sherman murders.

Snick1946 · #**125** 03-22-2011, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowDog

I wonder what the FBI bases their theory of a "serial killer" on? Have there been similar killings in that area that we don't know about? I know the Anderson deaths were ruled a murder/suicide (even though their children did not believe this) but could they have also been victims of a random serial killer? Their deaths keep coming back to mind when I think of the Hunter/Sherman murders.

Exactly. I know of at least one other researcher who believes there may be a link between this crime and the Anderson killings. I believe to this day that the Anderson children continue to question the conclusion OPD gave them.
There were a lot of little things that did not suggest Dr Anderson was planning to go home that day and shoot his wife and then himself. All this on a day almost a year after the Dundee killings a few blocks away, and then the wierd deal about the home being broken into while the crime tape was still up! Was someone covering something up?
We had a seperate thread on those murders at one time and I may dig it up and see what happens shortly.