Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Originally Posted by roseofsharon

It appears AG had her own teeth, yet no mention of visits to her dentist or her family doctor.

Did she take any RX medications?

You see - all of this shoots down the recluse notion! I'm certain Audrey visited her dentist on a regular basis as we all do. Same for her GP - Audrey would have regular check-ups and (no doubt) some prescriptions were prescribed for her.

I'm beginning to think that the word recluse was used unfairly for Audrey. When I think of a recluse, I think of Howard Hughes and his rather famous hiding away from all people. To take this further, IF Audrey was truly a recluse she never would have visited LV for the lovely Christmas photo!!

NOTE: Teachers and retired teachers receive a yearly pocket-planner from the OSSTF/RTO. It's a small booklet which can easily fit into a purse or even can be left in the car's glove box (albeit, Camaros have small glove compartments but these booklets would easily fit in there.) I wonder if LE have retrieved Audrey's pocket planner which would have dental, medical, vet, etc. appointments written down.

Oh and one more thing while I'm here - that's a good question about prescription meds. I wonder if Audrey was on prescription painkillers. It's fairly easy (so my doctor tells me) for 'the bad guys' to break into drug store computers to see who uses what. Having a full/recently filled bottle of painkillers would be a nice target for a drug seeker.

[dotr]

I suspect that perps (especially with oxycontin addictions)keep an eye out for the elderly or disabled as they exit pharmacies, so they can steal their medication on the spot, or watch and follow the potential victim to rob later .

[Kamille]

Originally Posted by No_Stone_Unturned

Copied from eachandevery:

Once the bit about the Amazing Grace email was made public, I thought it was sent by the person who killed Audrey - and I still do. I associate it with death, and it creeps me out. Between the timing of the message (and its content, especially) and her death, coupled with this new knowledge that she always thought she would be murdered, well, it's just odd.


I also feel that the song was sent by the killer. You know the song itself might be telling us something about the killer himself. Certainly, it's played at funerals but it's also a song/lyrics which recovering addicts (alcohol and other drugs) are drawn to:
"I once was lost but now I'm found"

Was the killer himself asking for help via Audrey's email?

Secondly - I'm sure (I hope) that LE had the dogs checked by the vet for anything administered to them to keep them quiet. A blood test/urine test would show up substances given to them. It might even provide a time-line!

From what I understand, that e-mail was sent to two different people hours apart. Considering AG's privacy paranoia and her extensive knowledge of computers, I have to believe that her computer was password protected and possibly even her e-mail account.

I also understand that AG would only send e-mails to people one at a time, never to more than one recipient, for fear that people would see her other e-mail contacts. If the killer wanted to send out that e-mail, I'd think he/she would have sent it to all contacts at the same time, perhaps not knowing AG's aversion to doing this.



MOO

[Kamille]

Originally Posted by No_Stone_Unturned

You see - all of this shoots down the recluse notion! I'm certain Audrey visited her dentist on a regular basis as we all do. Same for her GP - Audrey would have regular check-ups and (no doubt) some prescriptions were prescribed for her.

I'm beginning to think that the word recluse was used unfairly for Audrey. When I think of a recluse, I think of Howard Hughes and his rather famous hiding away from all people. To take this further, IF Audrey was truly a recluse she never would have visited LV for the lovely Christmas photo!!

NOTE: Teachers and retired teacher receive a yearly pocket-planner from the OSSTF/RTO. It's a small booklet which can easily fit into a purse or even can be left in the car's glove box (albeit, Camaros have small glove compartments but these booklets would easily fit in there.) I wonder if LE have retrieved Audrey's pocket planner which would have dental, medical, vet, etc. appointments written down.

Oh and one more thing while I'm here - that's a good question about prescription meds. I wonder if Audrey was on prescription painkillers. It's fairly easy (so my doctor tells me) for 'the bad guys' to break into drug store computers to see who uses what. Having a full/recently filled bottle of painkillers would be a nice target for a drug seeker.

I don't think AG was a recluse either. Just a single, retired woman with some strange habits.

She stayed in touch with old colleagues once a week. She would go out to have her hair done. She would go out to shop. She took her beloved dogs to the vet. She enjoyed driving her sports car around. She had a handyman whom she trusted. She had one good close woman friend whom she also trusted. These people were allowed to be part of her life on a more personal level.

She definitely appeared to have trust issues, and almost a paranoia about something, but I would not consider her a recluse at all. In fact, for 73 years old, she seemed to be pretty active. I believe it was PK who indicated that she hated feeling under the weather because she was getting "cabin fever".

MOO

[Kamille]

Originally Posted by sillybilly

I hope LE has checked with the Teachers Credit Union to determine if AG received paper statements or was strictly on internet banking. IF she received paper statements, then it is highly suspicious that they were not found with all her other important papers (and in which case I might consider the "sexual component" to ben a red herring).

In one of the instalments last week, it was said that AG was found wearing her winter coat and her comfortable stretch pants were ripped. PK told us AG had her sneakers on. Sorry to be graphic, but IMO, this is hard to put together with a viscious stabbing and bludgeoning, combined with a sexual component, unless the "sexual component" was somewhat limited to stabbing through her ripped pants. Again, that leads me to think that possibly that would be done to make it appear to have been sexually motivated.

Given AG's profession and what should have been a good retirement income, I also find it strange that AG didn't have a lot of $$ stashed away somewhere (ye olde sock under the bed??).

If AG was found in the garage with a winter coat on, sneakers and stretch pants, I would think that she was just out there having a cigarette. As a garage smoker, I can tell you that's what I'd be wearing in the winter when I'm out having a cigarette. She wasn't lured out there by a strange noise or car alarm or she wouldn't have put on shoes and a coat before going out IMO. I'm assuming that she had an inside entry door in the garage so if she thought something was amiss, she'd probably just open the door to look in the garage and check it out. It also doesn't sound like clothing she would be wearing if she was going out somewhere, unless it was a quick run to the store or something. But then she would have had her purse and car keys with her.

Regarding the sexual component being a red herring. If she wasn't actually sexually assaulted, and someone wanted the crime to look like a sex crime, could it be possible that the person was actually female?

I don't think her net worth is all that unusual. I thought I read she had about 50K in savings. That's a pretty good amount for a retired person on a pension. That car she had is not inexpensive either. I wonder if she paid cash for it. Camaro's start at a base price of about 30K and can go as high as 50K. The insurance and gas would be pretty expensive too. Utilities and property tax on her home would also be rather high. That was quite a large piece of property.

I believe she was a member of a Golf & Country Club for some time as well. Fees for those are very expensive. She had two large dogs to maintain and a handyman that she paid also. She liked computers and had a couple of flat screen tv's too. She had just purchased a new convection oven.

This wasn't a woman who was extremely frugal with her money IMO.

MOO

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Kamille:

She definitely appeared to have trust issues, and almost a paranoia about something, but I would not consider her a recluse at all. In fact, for 73 years old, she seemed to be pretty active. I believe it was PK who indicated that she hated feeling under the weather because she was getting "cabin fever".


Indeed, Audrey was a happily active 73-year-old. To note:

- keeping up with the latest in technology (computers, night classes at Mohawk College, a new convection oven)
- coffee group every Wednesday
- visiting with LV and with PK
- taking care of her dogs with the vet
- the Camaro!!
- wanting a new mailbox and buying one

The list of Audrey's activities is extensive. So, where did the term recluse come from?

[Kamille]

I'm sure this information is on here somewhere but I can't recall it. Does anyone know who or where AG had willed her estate too?

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Originally Posted by Kamille

I'm sure this information is on here somewhere but I can't recall it. Does anyone know who or where AG had willed her estate too?

I believe Audrey had LV as her executrix and also the beneficiary of the will.

On a bit of a side note - I'm watching the Michael Jackson death trial and one of the lawyers just said that when the eyes are wide open the person died immediately.

Has LE ever mentioned this? I know that PK said he found Audrey with her eyes wide open, almost looking at him.

[dotr]

"Gleave left the club a few years ago but the pair remained friends, visiting once or twice a week. Gleave attended a lot of the V family gatherings, such as Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter.

V said she last saw Gleave Dec. 27.

"She was here Boxing Day but was feeling under-the-weather," she said.

"I took some soup out to her on Monday morning and that was the last time I saw her."


Va said she was told by police investigators that Gleave had sent an e-mail to a friend on the night of Dec. 27.
Just wanted this info reposted for posterity.
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/Art...ay.aspx?e=2913

"She was an eccentric, eclectic individual and very private," Vanstone said. "Private in a very big way.

"All of the times I visited her, I think I was only in her house once.

"Usually, we sat on a bench outside the house where we would talk."

Va said that Gleave always worried about strangers getting her e-mail address.

"She said that Gleave was so private that she never mentioned that she had another friend in Brantford who lived in the same neighbourhood as V"



"She was very much a recluse especially in the last few years".

"She loved to talk about recipes, computers, cars, animals, Suduko, TV programs and other mind-boggling things that were over my head. She was unique, giving and a stickler for being on time."

Among Gleave's friends were members of her Wednesday morning coffee group of retired teachers, V said.

Gleave was an avid golfer with many golfing buddies, V said.

Gleave lived for her two German Shepherds, her shopping trips to Costco (her favourite store) and summer drives in her racy Chevy Camaro, she added.

"She loved her dogs but I never really trusted them," V said. "They were always kind of roaming around when I was there and when we sat and talked I didn't dare get up suddenly or make any quick movements."
(Although this opinion seems to have been formed after only one visit- so I conclude that was why there was not another..)Also wondering about the fear of strangers getting her email.Could Ag be connected to a celebrity or fearful of organized crime?

Also check comment 14 for unverified info about dogs.

[Kamille]

Originally Posted by No_Stone_Unturned

I believe Audrey had LV as her executrix and also the beneficiary of the will.

On a bit of a side note - I'm watching the Michael Jackson death trial and one of the lawyers just said that when the eyes are wide open the person died immediately.

Has LE ever mentioned this? I know that PK said he found Audrey with her eyes wide open, almost looking at him.

I don't think that LV was the beneficiary of AG's will for some reason. PK actually just mentioned in his last post that she was questioned when she bought a new car about where the money came from.

For some reason I was thinking that AG left her estate to an animal charity? Does anyone else remember this?

Perhaps PK can answer this question for me.

[roseofsharon]

Originally Posted by Kamille

From what I understand, that e-mail was sent to two different people hours apart. Considering AG's privacy paranoia and her extensive knowledge of computers, I have to believe that her computer was password protected and possibly even her e-mail account.

I also understand that AG would only send e-mails to people one at a time, never to more than one recipient, for fear that people would see her other e-mail contacts. If the killer wanted to send out that e-mail, I'd think he/she would have sent it to all contacts at the same time, perhaps not knowing AG's aversion to doing this.



MOO

What if it was someone who was well aware of this aversion though -- hmm?

[roseofsharon]

It's puzzling that AG feared her email address being disclosed. AG was very computer savvy, so must have known that any one of her email contacts could forward her emails to their own contacts and AG would never have been aware of that unless she was told, i.e. the gentleman who wrote on the condolences page that he almost lost AG as an email contact because he had forwarded one of her emails.

IMO, several people must have had AG's email address.

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Originally Posted by Kamille

I don't think that LV was the beneficiary of AG's will for some reason. PK actually just mentioned in his last post that she was questioned when she bought a new car about where the money came from.

For some reason I was thinking that AG left her estate to an animal charity? Does anyone else remember this?

Perhaps PK can answer this question for me.

Highlighting the query to PK in case he drops by!

[Canadian4]

Post 273 PK says LV was the sole beneficiary and she told him it was approx 500 grand. I have tried to put the quote here but it doesn't work (I am a bit basic in my computer skills.)

ETA: he doesn't actually say she told him but that he got that information from her.

[dotr]

From Feb 8,
"In the last month, Gleave’s Indian Trail house has been sold in an estate sale. Neighbour say the lights are on in the home all the time now.

The month has also been a time for reflection. F’s mom, L, who e-mailed back and forth with Gleave, has been going through past messages.

F said there was an e-mail about a month before her death in which Gleave described not wanting to go outside at night without her two big German shepherds.

This only makes the neighbours question even more why the dogs were locked inside and why Gleave’s body was found in the garage. There is a door into the home from the garage."
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...rs-are-anxious

[Kamille]

Originally Posted by roseofsharon

What if it was someone who was well aware of this aversion though -- hmm?

Very possible...although if the emails were hours apart, that would put the perp in the home for a long period of time.

MOO

[Kamille]

Originally Posted by Canadian4

Post 273 PK says LV was the sole beneficiary and she told him it was approx 500 grand. I have tried to put the quote here but it doesn't work (I am a bit basic in my computer skills.)

ETA: he doesn't actually say she told him but that he got that information from her.

Thank you Canadian4. You are right, PK did say that LV was the sole beneficiary. So is she a POI? It appears that she (and I suppose her family) was the only one to benefit monetarily from AG's death and as executor, she was likely aware of this.

Does anyone else find it odd that AG would leave everything to a woman who claimed to have only been inside the house once? When she had what appeared to be a close relationship with PK as well? I wonder if she ever considered adding PK to her will and if she ever discussed this with LV.

Someone else mentioned that it was kind of strange that LV never checked on AG after bringing her the soup on the 27th, knowing that she was not feeling well. And PK said it was odd that he never received any emails from AG after that date when he usually got 2 or 3 every day. Has LV ever indicated that she attempted to call AG during those 2-3 days before AG's body was found?

[roseofsharon]

Originally Posted by Kamille

Very possible...although if the emails were hours apart, that would put the perp in the home for a long period of time.

MOO

I think the perp may have been in the home for quite some time and when the neighbour's dogs started barking around 2:30 a.m., it may have been the time when the perp was leaving the crime scene.

AG being found in the garage with her coat on makes me think she was going to have a cigarette with this person and once she turned her back to go through the door, she may have been hit from behind and rendered unconscious first.

imo

[sillybilly]

Originally Posted by Kamille

I don't think that LV was the beneficiary of AG's will for some reason. PK actually just mentioned in his last post that she was questioned when she bought a new car about where the money came from.

For some reason I was thinking that AG left her estate to an animal charity? Does anyone else remember this?

Perhaps PK can answer this question for me.

I'm not PK but my initials are close ... donations requested to the animal charity came up in AG's obituary that was posted on the memorial site. IIRC, it was PK who told us that LV was the sole beneficiary, so yes ... odd that LE would question her re the new car. Have to say, my head is still spinning with the speed with which AG's estate was handled.

[dotr]

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...icious-killing
"There are items missing from Audrey's house, he says. What they are, he won't say. Valuables? Trophies?

Some items have been found during the ground searches. He again won't say what they are and adds detectives do not know for sure they relate to the homicide."

I just wanted to add these bits, also from an earlier news post.Also, I was thinking the imagery of AG with fire red hair and high, high heels must have really made an impact on some students, did she have a long term stalker or a jealous rival with a perverse idea to steal a "red pelt" ?

“She had red hair, red lipstick, red fingernails and high, high heels,” he says. “She was quite a striking woman. And she had a real love for cars. She drove a bright yellow Rover.”

[dotr]

Unrelated, I just thought it would be great if this lady popped in to WS..

Crime doesn’t pay, but analyzing it was rewarding work

Nancy Kaneva is retiring from her job as a civilian crime analyst with the Hamilton police. She's been with the service for 36 years.
Ron Albertson/The Hamilton Spectator

If you’re going to do something, do it right.

That maxim has served crime analyst Nancy Kaneva very well over her 36 years with the Hamilton Police Service.

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...rewarding-work
You developed the Hamilton Police Service’s first in-house databank of sexual deviants, a system all officers have access to and which is shared with investigators elsewhere. What was the need you saw?

“I’d been involved with ViClas (the National Violent Crime Linkage Analysis System,” which was not recording “preliminary crimes” (non-violent offences which are often warning flags. Experts agree violent sex offenders often graduate from non-violent acts such as stealing underwear off a clothesline or stalking and voyeurism to more serious offences.)

What did you use to create a databank?

“Eleven years ago, I began to note down things like behaviour, victimology, geographic location and vehicles, working with officers as they gathered information, adding a little at a time.”

[Valleyboy]

She is not doing too good with the AG case.

[dotr]

Originally Posted by Valleyboy

She is not doing too good with the AG case.

Which speaks to the complexity, or politics of this case..

[roseofsharon]

What is also so disturbing is that LE has not solved ...

SV, SL, KF, Orillia rapist, and I know there are more, but can't remember names.

It would be interesting if someone could set up a table/grid with the details of each crime and what we know about each victim, i.e. date, ET of death/attack, any commonalities and see if this forum can try to establish our own perp profile.

With all due respect to LE, whom must be so frustrated, little details can get missed that others pick up on.

On some of the cold case files on tv, a different set of eyes reading the files years after a crime, pick up on details that were missed the first time around.

Just a thought and just imo.

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Yes, I also am upset that these cases have not been solved. IF there is one perp for all of them (which I've often thought), it's all the more disturbing.

I just thought of something - Audrey's Camaro would have been fitted with On Star and this allows police, ambulance, GM, friends, etc. to be able to track the car at all times. IF Audrey had been picked up whilst driving her car (and then told to drive home with the attacker) the police will be able to track all of Audrey's car trips through On Star. It will also tell when the car was last driven and to where.

Question for PK: Did Audrey use On Star and her GPS frequently? Thanks.....