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  #151  
Old 07-21-2011, 03:29 PM
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It makes perfect sense to me defense101. I think she knew her attacker and locked the dogs up because she was expecting someone. I wonder how many pee and poop spots there were in the room the dogs were found in? That would give an idea how long they had been in there and also maybe when Ms Gleave was attacked. MOO.
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  #152  
Old 07-21-2011, 03:54 PM
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Yes, that makes sense. So - either AG KNEW her killer (hence, placing the dogs in another room) OR AG had already placed them in 'their room' for the night and the killer grabbed AG as she was locking up, taking garbage out, etc.

Did that make any sense?

And also, the dogs were left unharmed - that has been troubling me. If someone was sick enough to brutalise AG, I'd think that harming the dogs would be a non-big-deal.

ETA: So assuming AG KNEW her attacker, it should be easy to find this person. AG was reclusive, rarely/never let people into the house (they visited on AG's bench outside), had a coffee group, golfed, and loved animals. That's a pretty small number of contacts, isn't it? Oh, and the handyman and a few neighbours to whom AG e-mailed.
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Last edited by No_Stone_Unturned; 07-21-2011 at 04:01 PM. Reason: added a thought
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  #153  
Old 07-21-2011, 04:42 PM
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Yes, that makes sense. So - either AG KNEW her killer (hence, placing the dogs in another room) OR AG had already placed them in 'their room' for the night and the killer grabbed AG as she was locking up, taking garbage out, etc.

Did that make any sense?

And also, the dogs were left unharmed - that has been troubling me. If someone was sick enough to brutalise AG, I'd think that harming the dogs would be a non-big-deal.

ETA: So assuming AG KNEW her attacker, it should be easy to find this person. AG was reclusive, rarely/never let people into the house (they visited on AG's bench outside), had a coffee group, golfed, and loved animals. That's a pretty small number of contacts, isn't it? Oh, and the handyman and a few neighbours to whom AG e-mailed.
The viscous nature of the attack bespeaks a lot of anger as well which lends me to believe it was someone known to her (not always I know). The dogs being unharmed (good point) and in their room says to me it was someone known to her. Even if it was after she put the dogs in like you said, the person would have to of known her habits, this just doesn't seem like a crime of opportunity to me. IMO

Last edited by defense101; 07-21-2011 at 04:47 PM. Reason: ETA how did the person with cake get in? was the house unlocked? was the door ajar? had it been broken into?
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  #154  
Old 07-21-2011, 04:55 PM
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I've been giving this a lot of thought myself since I did my driveby. Let me put this to the group.

AG has been single/divorced since 1976. Given her umm pref for high heels, red polish/lipstick and fast cars. My opinion is that she as well as having a high self esteem for her mind also had a good self image. Therefore, it doesn't seem unlikely that she may have had a very serious relationship with say a married man, or he could have been a single suitor many years ago. They parted ways on very ugly terms. Or, she simply scornedand belittled him.
He carried that with him over the years and by a "chance" meeting they re-gained or "caught up". Perhaps she scorned him again and he simply "snapped" and she got what he thought she had coming to her after what she had put him through????
That's what makes the most sense to me. She may have been expecting him, perhaps he has just learned of a serious health issue, therefore, he has/had nothing to lose.
Your thoughts on this? Simple as a scorned suitor from the past?????
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  #155  
Old 07-21-2011, 04:56 PM
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I've been thinking about this a lot and the one thing that does stand out to me is the dogs. It was said that she would put the dogs in another room when someone came over, this sounds like she knew who she let in the house as the dogs were put in another room. Does this make sense?
Makes perfect sense to me, defense. However, it sounds to me like AG would have put the dogs in another room when either a friend OR a stranger came into the house. Having said that, I can't see AG letting a stranger into the house at all. That brings us back to someone she knew, OR the dogs were crated at night. I can't see a dog-lover like AG crating her dogs while she slept. Given she lived alone, was vulnerable due to age, arthritis, etc and seemed a touch paranoid, I believe she would rely on the dogs for security at night. The only way they can provide that security is if they have the run of the house.

I have two shepherds that are people-friendly, as long as I like the people When a stranger comes to the door, I intentionally allow the dogs to be right behind me so that people know there are two big shepherds in the house. My old shepherd loved our "people" but was NOT friendly to strangers (actually quite terrifying to people who didn't know her). When I went to the door, I just made extra sure she could not get past me to the stranger. If I was satisfied the stranger posed no threat, I would step outside to speak with them.

Shepherds can appear vicious to people who aren't familiar with them. They are pretty amazing at knowing how far to push it without harming anyone. If AG's dogs were actually vicious, I guess it's possible she had zero control over them, but I find that highly unlikely that someone would have this particular breed without knowing how to have them under control.
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  #156  
Old 07-21-2011, 05:13 PM
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Were the dogs really crated or locked in a room? I thought they were just inside the door to the garage... not really locked up, but not let outside either...
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  #157  
Old 07-21-2011, 05:23 PM
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Makes perfect sense to me, defense. However, it sounds to me like AG would have put the dogs in another room when either a friend OR a stranger came into the house. Having said that, I can't see AG letting a stranger into the house at all. That brings us back to someone she knew, OR the dogs were crated at night. I can't see a dog-lover like AG crating her dogs while she slept. Given she lived alone, was vulnerable due to age, arthritis, etc and seemed a touch paranoid, I believe she would rely on the dogs for security at night. The only way they can provide that security is if they have the run of the house.

I have two shepherds that are people-friendly, as long as I like the people When a stranger comes to the door, I intentionally allow the dogs to be right behind me so that people know there are two big shepherds in the house. My old shepherd loved our "people" but was NOT friendly to strangers (actually quite terrifying to people who didn't know her). When I went to the door, I just made extra sure she could not get past me to the stranger. If I was satisfied the stranger posed no threat, I would step outside to speak with them.

Shepherds can appear vicious to people who aren't familiar with them. They are pretty amazing at knowing how far to push it without harming anyone. If AG's dogs were actually vicious, I guess it's possible she had zero control over them, but I find that highly unlikely that someone would have this particular breed without knowing how to have them under control.
Yes, I agree unless it said somewhere which I didn't see, I can't see her putting them away at night, my parents would put theirs in a cage when they went out shopping until they learned that they could be alone without them, but other than that they had the run of the house and slept by their bed at night. I do believe the dogs are an important clue here. It doesn't seem like she had a lot of people come into her home, I'm still wondering how the person with the cake found her, I haven't read how they accessed the home and found her, was the door unlocked, did he have to break the door in? was the door already broken into?
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  #158  
Old 07-21-2011, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by LilyMacBloom View Post
I've been giving this a lot of thought myself since I did my driveby. Let me put this to the group.

AG has been single/divorced since 1976. Given her umm pref for high heels, red polish/lipstick and fast cars. My opinion is that she as well as having a high self esteem for her mind also had a good self image. Therefore, it doesn't seem unlikely that she may have had a very serious relationship with say a married man, or he could have been a single suitor many years ago. They parted ways on very ugly terms. Or, she simply scornedand belittled him.
He carried that with him over the years and by a "chance" meeting they re-gained or "caught up". Perhaps she scorned him again and he simply "snapped" and she got what he thought she had coming to her after what she had put him through????
That's what makes the most sense to me. She may have been expecting him, perhaps he has just learned of a serious health issue, therefore, he has/had nothing to lose.
Your thoughts on this? Simple as a scorned suitor from the past?????
I think this could be a possibility, it would have been someone who knew her and the attack was sexual in nature as well. I've just been reading through the 1st thread (sorry didn't realize there was a first thread before I posted) were there any reports by neighbors that she would have visitors of that kind in previous years?
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  #159  
Old 07-21-2011, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
Makes perfect sense to me, defense. However, it sounds to me like AG would have put the dogs in another room when either a friend OR a stranger came into the house. Having said that, I can't see AG letting a stranger into the house at all. That brings us back to someone she knew, OR the dogs were crated at night. I can't see a dog-lover like AG crating her dogs while she slept. Given she lived alone, was vulnerable due to age, arthritis, etc and seemed a touch paranoid, I believe she would rely on the dogs for security at night. The only way they can provide that security is if they have the run of the house.

I have two shepherds that are people-friendly, as long as I like the people When a stranger comes to the door, I intentionally allow the dogs to be right behind me so that people know there are two big shepherds in the house. My old shepherd loved our "people" but was NOT friendly to strangers (actually quite terrifying to people who didn't know her). When I went to the door, I just made extra sure she could not get past me to the stranger. If I was satisfied the stranger posed no threat, I would step outside to speak with them.

Shepherds can appear vicious to people who aren't familiar with them. They are pretty amazing at knowing how far to push it without harming anyone. If AG's dogs were actually vicious, I guess it's possible she had zero control over them, but I find that highly unlikely that someone would have this particular breed without knowing how to have them under control.
SB: I don't disagree with you, however, as a long time dog owner of many breeds, IF you have control of your dog, you don't have to LOCK or CONFINE a dog at all!! No matter what. The fact that AG found it necessary to confine the dogs (ever) tells me she didn't have control. I don't mean this in a negative way I'm just saying. I'm very sure she loved her dogs, but they were in charge.
Not that this has anything to do with her murder, other than AG made a decision to confine the very beings that could keep her safe, I have no doubt about this.
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  #160  
Old 07-21-2011, 09:34 PM
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I would have to agree here. I think the dogs were in charge in the Gleave home. One can adore their pets and still not have control over them. I believe that there was a comment at one point that Ms. Gleave had also owned other breeds but had recently had a number of shepherds. I think that was expressly for protection.

It should be remembered that even her very best friend, LV, expressed distrust and fear of the dogs. Supposedly LV visited often and you'd think that they would have "taken" to her after a period of time but it doesn't sound like it. I've never read how the handyman dealt with the dogs. Does anyone recall a statement from him? When he worked in the garden and about the house with Ms. Gleave, were the dogs left in the house--even in the summer months?

I'll go out on a limb and say that I've believed from the first few days that the killer is either:

an old friend or acquaintance who held a deep rage of a sexual fashion towards Ms. Gleave....a current spurned lover, a student, or someone from her distant past

OR

someone from the cemetery practicing "dark arts" on a very eventful night of the year


IMO, robberies gone wrong or angry neighbors who fly into a rage over barking do not brutally murder people and leave some sort of mark of sexual assault or mutilation.
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  #161  
Old 07-22-2011, 12:39 AM
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Are you referring to PK? He does have reddish hair but this guy is said to have very short dark hair. The sketch makes the suspect appear to be dark skinned, IMO.

Frightening, indeed.
I also posted this on MS thread (suspect in her murder!)
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/20.../18450416.html

TORONTO - The hunt is on for a 35-year-old drifter believed to have killed a Toronto teen and dumped her body at the side of a gravel road near Uxbridge, Ont.

"On a dating and meeting website, Hi5, Ghanad claims to be from Hamilton, Ont."

"he describes himself as being from Mashhad, Iran".......
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  #162  
Old 07-22-2011, 06:24 AM
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Hi everyone:

I just got finished reading all of your thoughts here. So, how about this:
a student AG taught who was 'hot for teacher', quite disturbed as a teen, received a failing grade from this pretty/sexy teacher, etc. and he returned years later to seek revenge?

Perhaps they linked up years later online, met a few times for coffee and he eventually arrived at AG's house.

Thoughts?

Oh, and as such an animal lover, I cannot see/understand AG confining her dogs ever except in a case to protect them OR someone arrived and said "Sorry, but I'm deathly afraid of dogs".

Thoughts again?
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  #163  
Old 07-22-2011, 01:43 PM
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Apologies for posting two in a row, but I was struck by something posted by Missizzy - about the cemetery and the 'dark arts'.

Often, certain times of the year bring out the worst in people. AG's killing took place in the Christmas/New Year time of the year. Now, I'm wondering about a killer having been prowling around that cemetery for years - perhaps AG's dogs were used to this person's scent - and on that horrible night something went very wrong. IE. the killer knew when AG let the dogs out for their final night time run and (somehow) he/she got into AG's house/garage.

I'm also thinking it could be a female because in the high school years, one is discovering their sexual identity. Perhaps (back to the 'hot for teacher' scenario) the killer is a female student. I think a female teacher would be more inclined to strike up a friendship with a former female student rather than a male student.

What a conundrum......
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  #164  
Old 07-27-2011, 12:32 PM
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Found a few moreAG,DS, tidbits on this site for anxiety sufferers,half way down the article.
http://theanxietynaturalremedies.inf...ton-spectator/
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  #165  
Old 07-29-2011, 05:16 PM
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I've always suspected that the killer could be a woman or women. This is only my opinion but I feel that Ms. Gleave's sexuality was somewhat ambiguous. That is very common for someone who, to my mind, fits the picture of being somewhere on the spectrum. She also coached a girls' basketball team and we certainly know that she wouldn't be the first teacher/coach to have a student have a crush on them or for there to have been some inappropriate contact--possibly totally unknown to other students. I don't know what the age of consent was at the time in Ontario nor if there are prohibitions against any sexual contact between students and staff. In some US states, no student under the age of 20 can give consent to an educator.

And concerning the "dark arts". Yes, most certainly it could be a woman, as well as a group. And remember, this was not just the Christmas holidays. It was a very unique week full of atmospheric events which highly reported. When I searched for events held around that time, there were many. Several cemeteries in the Hamilton area have been noted as meet-up locations for "night-time explorations"...including the Ancaster Pet Cemetery. I think that the cemetery adjacent to Ms. Gleave's home would be no exception.

One thing that doesn't fit for me, though, is the safety of the dogs. It's a well proven fact that shepherds are very often the brunt of horrid satanic or occult acts. I have no idea why such a noble breed suffers this. However, the Gleave dogs remained unharmed. If there was a single person, they might not have been a match for the dogs. However, if there was a group bent committing evil acts, I would think they would have harmed the dogs.
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  #166  
Old 07-29-2011, 05:31 PM
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dotr--I'm not sure what that site is but it seems to have been translated. I think it merely pops up due to the term, "anxiety" in the original article's title. Just a thought.

But I hadn't heard about a neighbor being in the house "tens of years" ago. That's interesting. Once again, it is made clear that Ms. Gleave was not a person who was easy to get close to. That seems so odd when looked at side by side with the comments of students from years ago.

"Mama" Gleave and Audrey Gleave seem like two different people. Could a woman really have changed so much?

We've talked about how she did not allow people into her home. How about her fancy car? After all, cars are personal space too. There are remembrances from at least one male student that she used to drive him home. How about more recently? Did she give people a lift? There's something in that car that interests LE.
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  #167  
Old 07-29-2011, 05:41 PM
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The original article:

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...l-on-the-loose

Anxiety returns as murderer still on the loose
June 6, 2011

"....“She was always very pleasant and congenial, (but) she wouldn’t invite you into her home,” he said. The one time he was allowed inside was decades ago when he was helping her with a plumbing or electrical problem inside her house..."



The "anxiety" article linked above, which I think is more of a "pop-up" article:

http://theanxietynaturalremedies.inf...ton-spectator/

Anxiety returns as murderer still on the loose – Hamilton
no date

"....“She was at all times pretty enjoyable and congenial, (however) she wouldn’t invite you in her home,” he said. The one time he was permitted inside was tens of years ago when he was assisting her with a plumbing or perhaps electrical trouble inside her home...."
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Old 07-29-2011, 05:50 PM
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An eventful week and most probably of interest to a person educated in science and physics. Unfortunately, it was probably of great interest to those wishing to conjure up occult forces in cemeteries.

From Wiki:

"...The previous total lunar eclipse occurred on December 21, 2010, at 08:17 UTC...."


and


http://www.seektress.com/ma122810.htm

Geomagnetic storm: December 28, 2010


and


The Winter Solstice: December 20-21, 2010


From:

http://libertytothecaptives.net/ritual_calendar.html


Dec. 22 ~ WINTER SOLSTICE (Sabbat Festival)
(Sexual Ritual)
Oral, anal, and vaginal; human and/or animal sacrifice


Dec. 24 ~ DEMON REVELS (High Grand Climax)
(Orgy and Blood Rituals)


http://www.labyrinthofpeople.com/lop1/SRAcalendar.html

Dec. 22 Satanic Feast Day Orgies Oral, Anal, Vaginal

Dec. 24 Satanic Demon Revels Da Meur High Grand Climax

Sexual association with demons called up, and animal and/or human sacrifice
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  #169  
Old 07-29-2011, 06:04 PM
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Just going back over a few things. I found this comment by Ms. Gleave's former husband strange, given what we've read:

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...-area-homicide

"She was protective of her private life because she lived alone, AG said. “She was obviously very, very intelligent. Probably her biggest passion was cooking. She’d try anything,” AG added...."

more at link


I happen to be the mother of three professional chefs/bakers. One thing I've learned about them is that they like to cook their own food. They enjoy collecting recipes but they are all quite picky about eating what others prepare.

We've read again and again that LV brought soup and that PK brought a special cake....one made from a recipe which came from AG. Why wouldn't Ms. Gleave be cooking her own food? Most people are intimidated about bringing a food gift to a person known to be passionate about cooking.
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:47 PM
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I can't remember if I've posed this question before. Do any locals on board know of any artistic cemetery photography which has been done in the past? There's a person noted to live very close to Ms. Gleave which specializes in this type of photography and seems to really enjoy the older cemeteries. I've often wondered if Ms. Gleave encountered this person and any others who might have been tagging along.
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  #171  
Old 07-30-2011, 01:59 PM
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Quoted from Missizzy:

One thing that doesn't fit for me, though, is the safety of the dogs. It's a well proven fact that shepherds are very often the brunt of horrid satanic or occult acts. I have no idea why such a noble breed suffers this. However, the Gleave dogs remained unharmed. If there was a single person, they might not have been a match for the dogs. However, if there was a group bent committing evil acts, I would think they would have harmed the dogs.


Perhaps there are two factors at work here regarding the dogs:
- it was a single killer (as Missizzy said)
- or, the attacker (if female who had a high school crush on AG) was 'respectful' enough of AG's love of dogs. (This idea makes the crime almost worse!)
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:02 PM
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Just going back over a few things. I found this comment by Ms. Gleave's former husband strange, given what we've read:

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...-area-homicide

"She was protective of her private life because she lived alone, AG said. “She was obviously very, very intelligent. Probably her biggest passion was cooking. She’d try anything,” AG added...."

more at link


I happen to be the mother of three professional chefs/bakers. One thing I've learned about them is that they like to cook their own food. They enjoy collecting recipes but they are all quite picky about eating what others prepare.

We've read again and again that LV brought soup and that PK brought a special cake....one made from a recipe which came from AG. Why wouldn't Ms. Gleave be cooking her own food? Most people are intimidated about bringing a food gift to a person known to be passionate about cooking.
Yes, now that you mention the 'loved cooking' it also strikes me as odd. Hmmmmmmmmmmm..........
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Old 07-30-2011, 05:32 PM
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Quoted from Missizzy:

We've talked about how she did not allow people into her home. How about her fancy car? After all, cars are personal space too. There are remembrances from at least one male student that she used to drive him home. How about more recently? Did she give people a lift? There's something in that car that interests LE.


I understand what you mean - the car + LE still have me wondering.

ETA: Indeed, there is something in that car which LE have their eyes on. I doubt it's blood - but DNA, forced entry, soil from shoes, or perhaps the killer left a taunting note to LE. The possibilities are endless.
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Last edited by No_Stone_Unturned; 07-30-2011 at 09:00 PM. Reason: added a thought
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by No_Stone_Unturned View Post
Quoted from Missizzy:

One thing that doesn't fit for me, though, is the safety of the dogs. It's a well proven fact that shepherds are very often the brunt of horrid satanic or occult acts. I have no idea why such a noble breed suffers this. However, the Gleave dogs remained unharmed. If there was a single person, they might not have been a match for the dogs. However, if there was a group bent committing evil acts, I would think they would have harmed the dogs.


Perhaps there are two factors at work here regarding the dogs:
- it was a single killer (as Missizzy said)
- or, the attacker (if female who had a high school crush on AG) was 'respectful' enough of AG's love of dogs. (This idea makes the crime almost worse!)
If the perp did not have a gun to use as a weapon, a knife would have been too risky to use to attack the dogs without getting bitten. If they did bite, I am sure a big chunk of the perp's DNA would remain with the dogs, whether they were killed or not.
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Old 07-31-2011, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by dotr View Post
If the perp did not have a gun to use as a weapon, a knife would have been too risky to use to attack the dogs without getting bitten. If they did bite, I am sure a big chunk of the perp's DNA would remain with the dogs, whether they were killed or not.
Perhaps the perp KNEW that AG had a nice set of kitchen knives!?!? I have a niggling feeling that the perp entered AG's house with only a SMALL weapon. Then, once in the house, the perp got something belonging to AG (knives, gardening equipment) OR the perp left the weapon(s) in the garage, near the car. And he/she retrieved them once AG was subdued.
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