Slut Walk Toronto

[believe09]

BOSTON (Reuters) – The dress code is casual, but the message is serious: no matter what you are wearing, no one invites sexual assault.

Thousands of marchers are expected on Saturday in Boston for "Slutwalk" the provocative name for a movement begun after a Toronto policeman suggested in January that women could avoid sexual assault by not dressing like a "slut."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110506/...ssault_protest

And, here is some spin from the Toronto Police Department regarding the comment by the officer:

In Toronto, the police department said its consistent message is that the victim is never to blame.
Comments made by one officer "did not and do not reflect the service as a whole," said spokeswoman Constable Wendy Drummond.

[Sailor Bug]

As far as I'm concerned this label is the same sick thinking society has blindly accepted to label woman and girls for years.

I don't condone the title for this walk.
It's so vulgar and just another form of abuse!!
It is absolutely not acceptable.
I personally feel it may very well cause added psychological trauma to some of the victims participating.

Why can't they continue to call this walk "Take back the night" ?? I've participated in several of these...I would not participate now with the new title.

Anything for headlines and to get people talking but really do we want it called Slut Walk?

By perpetuating this vulgar term you are putting yourself on the same level as the officer
who made the comment
jmo

[believe09]

I have participated in several Take Back the Night walks as well-I cant decide how I feel about the title of the Walk. It is attention grabbing, which will rivet people looking at the headlines.

[JBean]

I was listening to an interview of one of the organizers and they kept referring to it as a powerful word. They are taking back the word that has been used to shame them, making it their own and spinning it.

[Sailor Bug]

Originally Posted by JBean

I was listening to an interview of one of the organizers and they kept referring to it as a powerful word. They are taking back the word that has been used to shame them, making it their own and spinning it.

I'm not sure what they are "spinning" but it will not change the accepted defination of the word. Regardless of how they try to transform it, the negative connotations will forever remain.

For an (extreme) example this would be akin to:
Germany taking back the nazi label and reinserting it as a descripive of the German people. Two negatives do not equal a positive.

[JBean]

Originally Posted by Sailor Bug

I'm not sure what they are "spinning" but it will not change the accepted defination of the word. Regardless of how they try to transform it, the negative connotations will forever remain.

For an (extreme) example this would be akin to:
Germany taking back the nazi label and reinserting it as a descripive of the German people. Two negatives do not equal a positive.

I think part of it is that a slut is generally a promiscuous woman. Their point is in part that it is no one's business if they give their sex to whomever they choose, but it does not leave them open to sexual attack.
They are taking back and owning the word, but are saying whatever we are, we do not deserve to be sexually violated.
It has cause people like you and I to start dialogue and bring attention to a very serious issue.
I get it.

>>
Historically, the term ‘slut’ has carried a predominantly negative connotation. Aimed at those who are sexually promiscuous, be it for work or pleasure, it has primarily been women who have suffered under the burden of this label. And whether dished out as a serious indictment of one’s character or merely as a flippant insult, the intent behind the word is always to wound, so we’re taking it back. “Slut” is being re-appropriated.
We are tired of being oppressed by slut-shaming; of being judged by our sexuality and feeling unsafe as a result. Being in charge of our sexual lives should not mean that we are opening ourselves to an expectation of violence, regardless if we participate in sex for pleasure or work. No one should equate enjoying sex with attracting sexual assault<<
http://www.slutwalktoronto.com/

[Charlie09]

What happened to personal responsibility on both sides?

[OrdinaryLife]

Originally Posted by Charlie09

What happened to personal responsibility on both sides?

Not quite sure I understand your question. Are you debating the women part vs the men and what lack of definition could be described to them? Curious....

[Quiche]

I think the title is powerful-- it aptly underscores the absurdity of that type of warped thinking/labeling. It's a shameful way to view women and this bold title's purpose is to shame the men/women who recognize themselves.

I think it's a good thing.

[Charlie09]

Originally Posted by OrdinaryLife

Not quite sure I understand your question. Are you debating the women part vs the men and what lack of definition could be described to them? Curious....

I mean women owe it to ourselves to be smart about where we go, and and what we do not relying on something silly like putting power into the word slut to make men think. We should be thinking about our own actions.

[Quiche]

Originally Posted by Charlie09

I mean women owe it to ourselves to be smart about where we go, and and what we do not relying on something silly like putting power into the word slut to make men think. We should be thinking about our own actions.

The whole point is that it's not about a woman's actions, her dress, the look she gave-- rape is a violent crime that is NEVER invited. No one is a "slut" btw, only your perception of one. MO

[Charlie09]

Originally Posted by Quiche

The whole point is that it's not about a woman's actions, her dress, the look she gave-- rape is a violent crime that is NEVER invited. No one is a "slut" btw, only your perception of one. MO

Pedestrians don't ask to be hit by cars either, but if they step off the curb without being responsible for looking for oncoming traffic - they get squished.

[Quiche]

Originally Posted by Charlie09

Pedestrians don't ask to be hit by cars either, but if they step off the curb without being responsible for looking for oncoming traffic - they get squished.

Huh? One is an accident, the other a violent crime, I don't see the comparison. I know exactly where your post is coming from, however, and it makes me wish there was a SlutWalk in my region, I'd go in a heartbeat. mo

[Charlie09]

Originally Posted by Quiche

Huh? One is an accident, the other a violent crime, I don't see the comparison. I know exactly where your post is coming from, however, and it makes me wish there was a SlutWalk in my region, I'd go in a heartbeat. mo

that's great - nothing was meant personally.

I just think women owe it to themselves to take their safety and value as women more seriously.

[Quiche]

Originally Posted by Charlie09

that's great - nothing was meant personally.

I just think women owe it to themselves to take their safety and value as women more seriously.

Did you see the woman's statement who was raped wearing jeans and a sweatshirt? The crime is not about being sexually provocative, it really isn't-- and just because a woman is a modest dresser, believe me, she isn't immune to being horribly violated. Please know that. jmo

[Charlie09]

Originally Posted by Quiche

Did you see the woman's statement who was raped wearing jeans and a sweatshirt? The crime is not about being sexually provocative, it really isn't-- and just because you are a modest dresser, believe me, you aren't immune to being horribly violated. Please know that. jmo

So then the whole idea is kind of silly isn't it? It's not really about how your dressed, so why make it about that? We can't control every person we come into contact with, but there is much we can control, and there is much to be valued about being a woman.

[Quiche]

I think it's about women dressing as they are to highlight to inappropriateness of labeling a rape victim a slut. I think it has some merit, there are many backward thinking brutes walking around. mo

[wfgodot]

Originally Posted by Charlie09

So then the whole idea is kind of silly isn't it? It's not really about how your dressed, so why make it about that? We can't control every person we come into contact with, but there is much we can control, and there is much to be valued about being a woman.

There is something we can modify - attitudes - when an LE officer makes a statement which in effect blames the victim of a violent crime. As for "much to be valued about being a woman," you treat them as second class citizens hoping for pats on the head and encouragement that, if they can't be men, well, they can still make themselves useful by dressing demurely so as not to become the target of male violence.

[believe09]

Well I am glad we have the thread-clearly there is still much to talk about. And here I thought the word and the idea was antiquated. Silly me.

[reportertype]

Sorry, I'll dress however I want to. The onus is on the CRIMINAL rapist here, not any woman. I don't care what you're wearing.

No one says, well, if you hadn't forgotten to buy milk earlier, you'd never have walked in on that robbery and been shot.

No one should EVER EVER say well, if you hadn't x, y or z, you wouldn't have been raped. Period.

[LyndyLoo]

I am appalled even having to read this in 2011..Just when I thought we have, as a society of human beings have moved beyond such!! We have a long history of predatory behaviors by serial killers..Green River serial Killer targeted "Prostitutes" and Ted Bundy targeted young good looking females who had a heart and offered to help him with his false injuries...Predators target females/males alike..depends on their "Quirk"...could be dress style, could be hair color, could be hair length, geesh,> IT could be her lipstick color ..Women or men..do NOT go out and attempt to socialize in order to be used, abused and brutality murdered..

Its time to stop blaming the victim....Sorry..I find this totally off the chart in this day and age..and I truly thought we had gone past the "She/He" deserved it cause of their behaviors....Its high time the "Predator" is held totally responsible!! NOT the "Prey"..whomever it ends up to be

[Kat]

IMHO it doesn't matter how you are dressed when you are a target and victim of rape.

As it has been said many times on this website: Rape is about power and control and rage. No sex.

3 yr old little girls and little boys don't put themselves in the position to be raped. (that age is just a random one I selected)

Preteen females and males, teen girls and boys don't put themselves in the position to be raped.

Women of young and middle age don't put themselves in the position to be raped.

Elderly women well into their 70's and 80's don't either.

We have to be very careful not to assign blame onto the victim. Not the victim that for some reason or another finds themselves in a situation that makes them more accessible. Such as walking after dark, walking in an alley...etc.

Because they really are no different from that scared little girl or boy that waits in bed each night to hear the footsteps coming down the hall towards her and dreading that she again will be raped.

They are no different from the victim that does take every precaution to make sure that they have done everything to ensure their own safety and are blindsided by someone as they are leaving work. Accessing their car in a garage. Having drinks with friends and walking back to their car. Any scenario that I can think of---it's not the victims fault they were going about living their life and it was someone else who spotted them and decided there is my victim.

The elderly woman who never sets foot outside of her home after dark who is lying in bed when a man enters and rapes her in her own home.

We have to be very careful not to assign any responsibility for a crime on the victim of the crime.

Do people ask to be shot dead? Do people ask to be chopped up and dropped down in the trunk of a dead tree? (real case) Rape is a violent crime. It's up close and it's one on one.

If these people think that they can bring attention to an issue-fine by me. I have no qualms with that or with how they have chosen to entitle their movement.

Bottom line is that the thought that a victim is somehow responsible for his/her own rape is pervasive to this day and it can be insidious and covert. By simply asking ourselves---well why was she there in the first place or she shouldn't have been wearing such and such. We have already assigned blame.

all JMHO

[believe09]

It's funny, I had a friend who was assaulted by a guy wielding an ice pick. She was walking home from work at 8PM on a well lit street. She spotted the guy and chose NOT to take the short cut she usually took. She heard the sound of running feet behind her, he punched her then kicked her in the head and dragged her into the alley. He had an ice pick.

Wanna know what she was wearing? Full length down parka and ski boots because there was 2 ft of snow on the ground.

Witnesses later said they saw the attack but thought it was a boyfriend/girlfriend situation, so they walked away. Her life was saved by two guys who came out of an apartment carrying a sofa.

She told me more people than she could count tried to quarterback what she had done wrong that brought this on.

Isnt that something?

She was part of a serial attack-he got 5 women and killed the last two. A predator. And yet, people assigned her blame.

[wfgodot]

Guardian's very good take on matters:

SlutWalking gets rolling after cop's loose talk about provocative clothing

---
The participants, both female and male, carried placards saying "Met a slut today? Don't assault her," "Sluts pay taxes" and "We're here, we're sluts, get used to it."
---

That last phrase harkens back to Queer Nation's appropriation of another word with negative connotations and their 1980s chant "We're here, we're queer, get used to it."

More at Guardian link above.

[Donjeta]

I think it could be a defence mechanism. The thought of being raped is so disturbing that people want to think that they're safe, personally. If they can somehow attribute other people getting victimized to something stupid, dangerous or wrong that the victim did they can feel safer because they know better than to do X. But if it's just a random act of violence the victim could be anybody, it could be me.