NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #21

[Kelly_Robinson]

Originally Posted by Sleuthster

Why arent they trying to find him anymore?? On their fb page they diliberately are deleting any post with ideas to find him or thoughts directed in any manner other then words of support towards the family.

This is a snipit of their main post on the fb "find Steven Koecher" page.

This Facebook page was established by Steven's family, as a place to welcome him home alive and well. If you want to investigate and speculate, this is not the place. There are many appropriate websites (Websleuths.com is excellent, and Steven's case has been discussed there for over two years in thousands of posts.)The Q&As were developed by several people, who have deep knowledge of the case.
STEVEN, YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME HOME. YOU ARE LOVED, RESPECTED AND WHATEVER HAS GONE ON, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHARE. Just come home. Your Mom needs you now more than ever.

They are deleting them for two reasons; One is that they had tons of crazy people with crazy conspiracies that they got fed up with and secondly there were tons of arguments like this one on how he disappeared. I don't blame them.

Kelly

[Kelly_Robinson]

Originally Posted by SassyBenton

As time goes on I’m finding it harder and harder to believe that a random stranger lured him by offering him work and then killed him. What would be the reason? I can’t think of a good one. I think that whatever happened to Steven didn’t happen in the SCA neighborhood, I think it was merely a place to meet up with someone.

Up until very recently there was a google map that showed Steven’s cell phone pings but I can’t locate it now. Anyone know where it is?

I don't think it was random and I don't think that he went there to meet someone for work. I have a theory but until I have some evidence I am just going to keep my mouth shut as I subscribed to the employment theory at one time. But the more that I thought about it, it made no sense. Who goes on an interview wearing jeans or kaki's on a Sunday.

I think that he was there for a perfectly rational reason. But I have to do some more work on it. I will say that it's not some wild conspiracy theory, or has to do with drugs or any of that nonsense, and I have never believed this guy walked away from his life. I am sure that didn't happen.

I subscribe to what the well known atheist Anthony Flew said when he stated that he finally was able to believe in a Creator, "I have always gone where the evidence leads me."

Given his character of a pretty normal guy who was struggling with the economy like many of us have been doing you take it to the most logical step,

We know that he wasn't kidnapped by men from outer space. He didn't just, poof, vanish into thin air. He didn't do drugs, he didn't run off with some girl and very doubtful that he was gay and ran off with some guy.

But it's only a theory and until I there is solid proof or evidence that is where it stays in the theory category. With respect to the Susan Powell theory, I really think that has been pretty much been debunked and run completely into the ground. Give it a rest.

Kelly

Kelly

[Kelly_Robinson]

Originally Posted by Sleuthster

There are 2 fb groups that are for Steven, one is family and the other is a discussion page.

On the other (nonfamily) fb there is alot of negativity IMO about the family's intentions so I hope we dont start doing that too. But my only point is that I too believe that they have not released anything about SK's disappearance that would be negative to their family and the LDS. It's pretty apparent when they dont want anyone posting about suggestions or ideas, just support for "the family" that they have a pretty good idea about what has happened to Steven or it could be that in their hearts they have accepted he's not with us anymore. I still believe he is and they know something that could help and we'll leave it at that.

You have a right to your opinion but I have to really ask you if you are kidding? I have had contact with the P.I. in the past and I have to say there is no reason to believe that Steven just up and took off. There is nothing to indicate that at all. But you have a right to your opinion. I just think that it creates false hope.

Kelly

[Kelly_Robinson]

Originally Posted by Sleuthster

I was thinking tonight about the flyers being found on the dash board of his car. They could have been in the folder and then he took them out to put other papers in the folder. But what was in the folder??? That's the big question. With this new scenario it would not be out of the ordinary that he was dressed nicely as he was to rendevu's with a member of this group.

One more thing....the fb group on behalf of the family, when I have posted possibilties that he is alive they respond why would he do that to his parents?? Basically, that would make him a horrible person and they have rules on the page that it's become more of a support page for the family they dont really want to hear any thoughts or ideas on where he could be or what happened to him, it is not open for discussion on there apparently.

Maybe.

[Sleuthster]

There is no evidence that Steven is alive and there is no evidence that Steven is not alive. So you can call them crazy conspiracies but many people (including myself) have spent alot of time trying to help find the truth and bring Steven home one way or another.

I myself have stepped away from this case because it's really too much drama for me and I'm not a PI nor LE so I really dont have to deal with it. I am just a person who became involved with helping find the missing because I have 2 close friends that have been missing for decades. It has always been my hope (even if it's false hope) that they would appear one day with some amazing story of where they have been all this time but I know it's improbable at this point. Yet, there is no evidence that they are not alive, only too much time passed.

I hope one day that there is closure for his family in some form and I hope that it is Steven walking in one day alive.

[Julessleuther]

Sorry, I did not mean to cause the family any distress. I truly was just trying to help.

Originally Posted by believe09

LE and both families debunked this in no uncertain terms. Additionally both familes consider any ongoing speculation to be a source of pain.

I cannot believe this is continuing, frankly.

[Fairy1]

Originally Posted by Julessleuther

I have not been here in a long time, but was doing a quick online search for Steven, and there is a Steven Koecher listed in Las Vegas area with writing and editing experience on Linked In. It states that he works at a place called Match Bin, and that he interned for the governors office in UT. If it is a coincidence, it is an odd one!

That's him and it's old.

[Fairy1]

Originally Posted by believe09

LE and both families debunked this in no uncertain terms. Additionally both familes consider any ongoing speculation to be a source of pain.

I cannot believe this is continuing, frankly.

I can't, either. It does nothing but perpetuate a flat out lie started by Josh and Stephen Powell to take the heat off themselves for the murder of Susan Powell.

Since that lie was started, I believe we've all seen these people for what they are/were.

[Fairy1]

For those questioning Steven's family, you may find this enlightening:

http://mormon.org/faq/life-after-death/

Try to keep in mind also that since Steven has been missing, they have lost their patriarch and the driving force in the search for Steven. Maybe they've had enough?

[Sulamith]

Originally Posted by Kelly_Robinson

Doubt it. He was a committed member of the L.D.S. Church. People don't generally leave their faith like that. It's usually a long process and people who attend meetings like that have usually long left their faith and attend just to reinforce their decision.

Kelly

Probably not likely that he attended a PostMormon gathering, it might have been a possibility. In my family and husb. family there were a few LDS that appeared to be committed to the LDS church but were not. They just went along with the program to keep their families happy. And from what I have seen, sometimes people just leave their faith. Plenty of people have attended Ex-mormon, PostMormon, Mormon Stories conferences that are becoming rather popular amongst Mormons that are struggling with some aspects of their faith. These groups are not necessarily people that have long left the LDS faith.

[Sulamith]

Originally Posted by Fairy1

For those questioning Steven's family, you may find this enlightening:

http://mormon.org/faq/life-after-death/

Try to keep in mind also that since Steven has been missing, they have lost their patriarch and the driving force in the search for Steven. Maybe they've had enough?

Who knows if they have had enough. I know the LDS church calls the man of the house a "patriarch" but plenty of LDS women are strong and would carry on with family business if their patriarch died. Of course, I do not know the dynamics of the Koecher house and don't care to know.

Question: Why was the dad the driving force in the search for Steven? I must have missed something. I am guessing that if the family has had enough of the speculation/search, it is because they find comfort in their faith and the belief that Steven is in a better place and since they are sealed to him, they will all meet up in the Celestial Kingdom.

JMHO, Just thought I would take a look at Steven's thread and see if there was anything new that had been reported. I think that speculation/conspiracy theories can get out of hand, but I get the impression all the Koecher family wants is comfort. I think some theories might be useful, but IMHO, if all they want is comfort/supporting comments, maybe all of the Websleuthers are wasting their time thinking about this case????

[Montjoy]

Originally Posted by Julessleuther

Sorry, I did not mean to cause the family any distress. I truly was just trying to help.

Don't fret, I'm certain that the post was not in reference to you. What you posted was well-meaning.

[SassyBenton]

Originally Posted by Kelly_Robinson

I don't think it was random and I don't think that he went there to meet someone for work. I have a theory but until I have some evidence I am just going to keep my mouth shut as I subscribed to the employment theory at one time. But the more that I thought about it, it made no sense. Who goes on an interview wearing jeans or kaki's on a Sunday.

I think that he was there for a perfectly rational reason. But I have to do some more work on it. I will say that it's not some wild conspiracy theory, or has to do with drugs or any of that nonsense, and I have never believed this guy walked away from his life. I am sure that didn't happen.

I subscribe to what the well known atheist Anthony Flew said when he stated that he finally was able to believe in a Creator, "I have always gone where the evidence leads me."

Given his character of a pretty normal guy who was struggling with the economy like many of us have been doing you take it to the most logical step,

We know that he wasn't kidnapped by men from outer space. He didn't just, poof, vanish into thin air. He didn't do drugs, he didn't run off with some girl and very doubtful that he was gay and ran off with some guy.

But it's only a theory and until I there is solid proof or evidence that is where it stays in the theory category. With respect to the Susan Powell theory, I really think that has been pretty much been debunked and run completely into the ground. Give it a rest.

Kelly

Kelly

Do you have anything you CAN share? I think we’ve all been reminded time and time again that baiting is not allowed so it’s probably best you don’t mention what info you have if you can’t share it. This is a place for discussion, let’s all respect each other’s ideas.

[cocomod]

The thing that I find most disconcerting is that I am not sure that LE has completely checked out a person very close to SK that has a criminal history. SK owed money to his LL, and it makes the most sense if Steven was trying to find a way to pay his rent.

From his family, friends, ward members, and those that actually knew Steven, I think it is a VERY long shot that he was gay and wanted out of the LDS faith. I know that this theory is one that needs to be discussed, but I find this one to be very hard to believe. I am LDS, and I do know those that have wanted out of our faith, but this case doesn't really sit like that with me. The signs for wanting out of the faith are just not there in Steven's case. JMHO

I wish that LE had taken his disappearance with more Umph in the beginning. I think that critical time passed; and I still doubt that a thorough investigation has happened. I really hate the fact that LE seems to take the disappearance of young men less seriously than beautiful young girls. I think there is every chance that young men can meet with foul play too.

I still hope that answers come one day, but I will be honest in saying that any answers may not ever come. We need a truly gifted and tenacious investigator to break this case IMHO.

[Kelly_Robinson]

Originally Posted by SassyBenton

Do you have anything you CAN share? I think we’ve all been reminded time and time again that baiting is not allowed so it’s probably best you don’t mention what info you have if you can’t share it. This is a place for discussion, let’s all respect each other’s ideas.

I was not "baiting" and I did share what I think. I have disposed of the "going for an interview theory" and what I have is just a theory. Nothing more. If I had some hard evidence it would be going straight to LE and not shared here.

That is not baiting. Baiting is, "I just found out something but I can't tell anyone." Or leading anyone to believe that you have special information.

I made it clear that I only have a theory and the reason that I am not sharing it right now is because, it's just that, "a theory." There are many of those and we have heard them all. If it becomes a little more than just a theory I will share it. Either way it certainly is not earth shattering.

Kelly

[believe09]

Originally Posted by Julessleuther

Sorry, I did not mean to cause the family any distress. I truly was just trying to help.

I am sorry I missed this JS-this was not directed at you. This was directed at the subject. As Fairy stated, the theory was concocted by the Powell's. I would think that the comforter with Susan's blood on it in Josh's storage unit might put this completely to rest even if the fact that LE debunked it hasnt.

[believe09]

Originally Posted by Kelly_Robinson

I was not "baiting" and I did share what I think. I have disposed of the "going for an interview theory" and what I have is just a theory. Nothing more. If I had some hard evidence it would be going straight to LE and not shared here.

That is not baiting. Baiting is, "I just found out something but I can't tell anyone." Or leading anyone to believe that you have special information.

I made it clear that I only have a theory and the reason that I am not sharing it right now is because, it's just that, "a theory." There are many of those and we have heard them all. If it becomes a little more than just a theory I will share it. Either way it certainly is not earth shattering.

Kelly

No offense intended, but fwiw I see "I have a theory and I am not sharing" to be very similar to "I found something out but I wont/cant tell you."

I am sure you dont mean it to be read that way.

[Kelly_Robinson]

Originally Posted by believe09

I am sorry I missed this JS-this was not directed at you. This was directed at the subject. As Fairy stated, the theory was concocted by the Powell's. I would think that the comforter with Susan's blood on it in Josh's storage unit might put this completely to rest even if the fact that LE debunked it hasnt.

I wanted to comment on the article that you have posted to your signature, about psychics. I have always thought psychics were bogus and a waste of time and mostly money. I am sure that there have been psychics that come out of the woodwork. I once spoke with a man who said he was a psychologist but was supposedly a psychic and wanted to read my palm, which I quickly told him to take a hike. The amazing Randy has debunked every single one of these people. The way that crimes are solved are good old fashion gumshoe work. That's not to say that we as humans may not have some extra sensory perception, such as intuition. But I think that psychics are con men and women and are bogus. I have heard that the Koechers have been bothered by these idiots.

Kelly

[Sleuthster]

Originally Posted by Kelly_Robinson

I wanted to comment on the article that you have posted to your signature, about psychics. I have always thought psychics were bogus and a waste of time and mostly money. I am sure that there have been psychics that come out of the woodwork. I once spoke with a man who said he was a psychologist but was supposedly a psychic and wanted to read my palm, which I quickly told him to take a hike. The amazing Randy has debunked every single one of these people. The way that crimes are solved are good old fashion gumshoe work. That's not to say that we as humans may not have some extra sensory perception, such as intuition. But I think that psychics are con men and women and are bogus. I have heard that the Koechers have been bothered by these idiots.

Kelly

Oh snap! what does this have to do with anything???

[believe09]

Originally Posted by Kelly_Robinson

I wanted to comment on the article that you have posted to your signature, about psychics. I have always thought psychics were bogus and a waste of time and mostly money. I am sure that there have been psychics that come out of the woodwork. I once spoke with a man who said he was a psychologist but was supposedly a psychic and wanted to read my palm, which I quickly told him to take a hike. The amazing Randy has debunked every single one of these people. The way that crimes are solved are good old fashion gumshoe work. That's not to say that we as humans may not have some extra sensory perception, such as intuition. But I think that psychics are con men and women and are bogus. I have heard that the Koechers have been bothered by these idiots.

Kelly

LOL, Kelly. You and I-shoulder to shoulder....I love it.

Dont get me started on Gail St John who just took the Haley Dunn folks for a ride.

[Kelly_Robinson]

Originally Posted by Sleuthster

Oh snap! what does this have to do with anything???

Because I have heard that the Koechers have been inundated with these predators. Like I mentioned I think that we may all have some extra sensory perception, such as everyone has experienced when they have been thinking of someone whom they have not seen in years and then all of a sudden you run into them. Perhaps that is some extra sensory perception, I don't know, but that is a far cry from these jackasses who prey on people who are going through hell like the Koechers have.

I remember many years ago I was invited to some spiritual group and the man who was leading the meeting said, "If you feel the warmth right now that is because the Spirit is moving through the room as I speak." Yeah I felt the warmth alright, because we were in the middle of a record breaking heatwave and the room was probably about 115 degrees with no air conditioning. My friend and I began laughing our heads off and we finally got up and walked out. That is the mind set of people who "offer their services" to people like the Koechers.

Kelly

[SassyBenton]

Originally Posted by Kelly_Robinson

Because I have heard that the Koechers have been inundated with these predators. Like I mentioned I think that we may all have some extra sensory perception, such as everyone has experienced when they have been thinking of someone whom they have not seen in years and then all of a sudden you run into them. Perhaps that is some extra sensory perception, I don't know, but that is a far cry from these jackasses who prey on people who are going through hell like the Koechers have.

I remember many years ago I was invited to some spiritual group and the man who was leading the meeting said, "If you feel the warmth right now that is because the Spirit is moving through the room as I speak." Yeah I felt the warmth alright, because we were in the middle of a record breaking heatwave and the room was probably about 115 degrees with no air conditioning. My friend and I began laughing our heads off and we finally got up and walked out. That is the mind set of people who "offer their services" to people like the Koechers.

Kelly

I don't see what this has to do with this case. If you don't like psychics fine, let other people believe what they want. Do you come here just to tell people they are wrong?

[believe09]

Snip from Kelly's post:

Because I have heard that the Koechers have been inundated with these predators. Like I mentioned I think that we may all have some extra sensory perception, such as everyone has experienced when they have been thinking of someone whom they have not seen in years and then all of a sudden you run into them. Perhaps that is some extra sensory perception, I don't know, but that is a far cry from these jackasses who prey on people who are going through hell like the Koechers have.

The Koechers have been plagued by psychics. Which is Kelly's point, I believe.

[Cappuccino]

Originally Posted by SassyBenton

I don't see what this has to do with this case. If you don't like psychics fine, let other people believe what they want. Do you come here just to tell people they are wrong?

Missing person's cases attract "psychics" and conspiracy theorists like vulture to carrion. If you've never seen this close up you are fortunate, because its very ugly and very sad at the same time.

[Laughing]

Someone knows something, something important about each of these cases!

Laughing