Found Deceased GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 25 June 2011 - Page 12

Knox · #**276** 07-08-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonya610

If he just plain shot her there would likely be evidence (i.e. loud bang, blood/gunpower residue at the scene, recently fired or cleaned gun found in his apartment). Plus he said it was "a little gun" which means quite possibly more than one shot.

Guns are only scary if you think the person will shoot you, and in this case if she believed he WOULD shoot her there would be no reason to cooperate! She knew the guy, she wasn't afraid of him, she isn't likely to freak out and go along with any crazy ideas (i.e. being tied up or abducted) just because he shows up with a .22 handgun.

To me the above line says it all! If they had a REAL SUSPECT with REAL EVIDENCE they would be building their case, not chasing around checking the alibis of every casual associate.

I did not say I thought she was shot in the apartment-

BBM- Guess you're braver than I ... Someone points a "little gun" at me, I'm going to assume they will use it. You're making some pretty big assumptions on how Lauren would have reacted, IMO.

I'm still on the fence about McD, but the fact he stated he had a gun is relevant when you are a named POI in a murder case.

Knox · #**277** 07-08-2011, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthful Lies

I really hate to bring this thought up, and maybe someone already has (i've followed and try to read every post but I'm sure I've missed some), but what about a really big tarp or painters cloth that could be rolled up and contain the mess. =(

Good point Truth. Glad to see you posting here

Knox · #**278** 07-08-2011, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alliecat

From very reliable sources - Butterbean was and is with her parents.

Thank You Alliecat and Welcome to Websleuths!!

Are you a local? Hoping for more people who can give us a boots on the ground perspective.

Sonya610 · #**279** 07-08-2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmoothOperator

Just a couple of quick thoughts and questions..

I really find it extremely difficult to believe that LE is leaning toward Laurens apt being the scene of the crime.. Dismembering her entirely in this apt.. Most likely Saturday night and by Wedsnesday McD along with other classmates let themselves into her apt and everything was in place, not even so much as a sign of struggle..

I find this extremely unlikely when realistically looking at what is involved in dismembering a body.. We are not talking just a little blood to clean up with a little bit of bleach.. We are talking full blown body tissues, and blood.. Very gruesome or grisly scene even with the most careful of killers.. I just do not find it realistically possible that Lauren was fully dismembered in her apt most likely late Saturday and 3 days later not a single item was even slightly out of place.. Not to mention when LE got on the scene their mobile crime units would be able to discern if certain areas had been recently scoured, scrubbed, for every single trace of a dismemberment that occurred 72 hours prior.. Atleast I would certainly think this would be easily discertained by LE crime unit, especially FBI..

Well it is possible she was dismembered in the apartment. Yes, if they drained the blood beforehand (not sure how easy that would be do to in a bathtub without being able to suspend the body but regardless) before dismemberment and worked carefully on a vinyl floor they could have cleaned it up so it looked fine when the friends came in.

Would the police immediately figure out the whole floor and bathtub had been cleaned? Of course, but so what. BTW if they hadn't found the torso they might NOT have realized the bathroom had been cleaned, they likely wouldn't have checked the tub for signs of dismemberment due to a missing person that is for sure. Regardless as long as the killer was careful not to leave their own evidence behind (fingerprints, hair, shoe prints) they wouldn't care if the police found the scene, it was after all HER apartment.

If the killer was known to her, if he had EVER been in that apartment fingerprints or hair wouldn't even matter UNLESS it could be proven to have been left during the crime.

But keep in mind it isn't just dismemberment, that would imply the body was STORED in it's decayed state for days in the apartment complex. That would be hard to hide, and since we know that definitely wasn't stored in HER apartment that creates evidence of a second scene IF the body was stored there (i.e. fluids, smell, etc...).

The other evidence after the cleanup of the bathroom (besides storing the body) would also have to be carefully disposed off (tools, clothing, etc..) as well as the other missing body parts. We know they took various body parts away so we can assume they had the sense to remove the tools and such too. That is why I don't think it was done there. They wouldn't take everything else and hide it but then save the decomposed torso in their apartment or wherever and leave it on the doorstep.

bessie · #**280** 07-08-2011, 07:59 PM

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WideOpen · #**281** 07-08-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmoothOperator

Wide open I totally agree with you that what was said in the article does make it appear as tho possibly she was somehow overpowered at her vehicle.. In her vehicle.. Tho at the moment I don't have a theory that would involve the car's involvement, if even just briefly(meaning she was attacked at her car before able to even get in..) Something like that.. if true that the parents have already taken the car to MD then I doubt it contained anything of any evidentiary value.. But to my knowledge her family is still in Macon, as they have just begun the task of cleaning out Lauren's belongings from her apt..*

I mean why would Burns state a warning for the public being specific about making sure to pay close attn and to be aware when walking in parking lot to your car.. And to check around before getting in your car.. That us what has me wondering is it possible that somehow they have come up with the notion that Laurem was attacked or overpowered at or around her car?!.. Because from what I have read most believe the attack occurred in her very own apt.. But Burns says nothing about being aware when going home alone to check out your apt.. Something along those lines.. But he doesn't. Instead when asked was it a stranger or known to her perp he said he would not say, followed by the warning to the public of being aware and paying attn especially in going to your vehicle.. To look and check things out before getting in your car??

To me that just doesn't make sense with what we know(pretty much nil).. But prior to this statement made today by Burn's I certainly was not even toying with the notion as a possibility that Lauren was attacked at or around her car.. IMO it's pretty much the only thing that would make a lick of sense when looking at Burn's statement today?

Anyone??

This is from a NG blog, not sure if its allowed...but it does say her keys were inside her apartment.
Some had questioned if SM had a car, if he does not he certainly could have used hers and staged the keys. I could be totally off and am just throwing this out there to keep in mind.

The police report filed by the officer who was initially dispatched to Giddings’ apartment on June 30 details a suspicious scene. Giddings’ purse and the keys for her door and her car were sitting on her couch inside the locked apartment.
http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2011...hool-graduate/

JMO thanks

Destini · #**282** 07-08-2011, 08:12 PM

From today:

"Chief Mike Burns said Friday morning police have been "unable" to speak with McDaniel. But police later issued a statement from Maj. Charles Stone, the criminal investigations head, who said: "We haven't tried to speak with him. He's charged with two burglaries. He's not a murder suspect. We have no reason to speak to him."

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/1...se-Lawyer-Says

bessie · #**283** 07-08-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

The lawyer for Lauren Giddings' next-door neighbor Stephen McDaniel says police have not asked to interview his client since he began representing McDaniel a week ago. Macon police have publicly identified McDaniel as a "person of interest" in Giddings' killing.

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/1...se-Lawyer-Says

FWIW, this doesn't mean that he's out of the picture yet.

Alliecat · #**284** 07-08-2011, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knox

Thank You Alliecat and Welcome to Websleuths!!

Are you a local? Hoping for more people who can give us a boots on the ground perspective.

Hi - not a local, but I have a few reliable sources that sometimes pass along information. This case is so tragic, yet bizarre, that it is fascinating. I've been following the forum discussion this past week.

bessie · #**285** 07-08-2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knox

I did not say I thought she was shot in the apartment-

BBM- Guess you're braver than I ... Someone points a "little gun" at me, I'm going to assume they will use it. You're making some pretty big assumptions on how Lauren would have reacted, IMO.

I'm still on the fence about McD, but the fact he stated he had a gun is relevant when you are a named POI in a murder case.

I agree, Knox. It's impossible to know how Lauren would've reacted if confronted with a gun. Also, a change in demeanor and appearance can make even a mild mannered weakling seem like a seven foot hairy monster. In other words she might've been frightened by more than the gun.

Sonya610 · #**286** 07-08-2011, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bessie

I agree, Knox. It's impossible to know how Lauren would've reacted if confronted with a gun. Also, a change in demeanor and appearance can make even a mild mannered weakling seem like a seven foot hairy monster. In other words she might've frightened by more than the gun.

Yes I realize some people are very afraid of firearms. Just about everyone I know owns guns (deep south) so I don't find someone saying they have a firearm to be even mildly suspicious.

I have always understood basic safety and self defense measures dictate if someone attempts to abduct you with a gun do not cooperate. If they are willing to kill you for NOT cooperating (low stage crime on their part, just a threat and they can still walk away) they are darn sure likely to kill you when you are at their mercy in a remote location. Same thing applies to being tied up.

If they were seriously willing to kill you for not cooperating you are going to be in real trouble later when they have dug a deeper hole and realize they could be charged with kidnapping/rape etc... especially since you are now likely helpless, bound, and/or in a remote location. Most of the time the "additional charges" can't let the victim live won't even factor into it because they had decided they would kill you before they stuck the gun in your face.

darmela · #**287** 07-08-2011, 09:32 PM

Here is a link to Lauren's Facebook page, in case any of you are interested:

www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=53300422

bessie · #**288** 07-08-2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonya610

Yes I realize some people are very afraid of firearms. Just about everyone I know owns guns (deep south) so I don't find someone saying they have a firearm to be even mildly suspicious.

I have always understood basic safety and self defense measures dictate if someone attempts to abduct you with a gun do not cooperate. If they are willing to kill you for NOT cooperating (low stage crime on their part, just a threat and they can still walk away) they are darn sure likely to kill you when you are at their mercy in a remote location. Same thing applies to being tied up.

If they were seriously willing to kill you for not cooperating you are going to be in real trouble later when they have dug a deeper hole and realize they could be charged with kidnapping/rape etc... especially since you are now likely helpless, bound, and/or in a remote location. Most of the time the "additional charges" can't let the victim live won't even factor into it because they had decided they would kill you before they stuck the gun in your face.

You're absolutely right about that, Sonya. LE and self-defense trainers always warn against allowing yourself to be brought to a second crime scene. We just can't be certain LG would've heeded that advice. It's hard to know what a person will do if panic sets in. Fear makes most people compliant. If she knew her attacker, she might've thought she could reason with him. Also, a known attacker would be able to lure her to a different location.

darmela · #**289** 07-08-2011, 09:39 PM

In Memoriam of Lauren:

www.nationalcenter.org/PR_Lauren_Giddings.html

SaMy · #**290** 07-08-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knox

Good point Truth. Glad to see you posting here

I was thinking the same thing as Truth! If there are in fact other victims, he could have already perfected the process of dismemberment before he victimized Lauren. Through experimentation, wouldn't he have come to figure out that a tarp or some sort of drop cloth was necessary? His first attempts were probably very messy but maybe he's had tons of time to clean those up. No one is confirming there are other parts, let alone how old they are.

Dupree · #**291** 07-08-2011, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darmela

In Memoriam of Lauren:

www.nationalcenter.org/PR_Lauren_Giddings.html

This could be why the FBI became involved so quickly. Other than dismemberment, of course.

Destini · #**292** 07-08-2011, 09:49 PM

One of the articles said they have her on video on June 25 but don't say what time. Since this is downtown Macon, I wonder if she left on foot to meet a friend/friends at a restaurant or bar after 10:30 that evening. Maybe they have her on video there. She could have taken some cash & the extra door key in her pocket, then was abducted on her way back home.

I hope they're searching any abandoned buildings in that area. I can't fathom anyone having to nerve to go there & dump her torso in the yard the way they did unless they were trying to make a statement.

My prayers for Lauren's family, friends & law enforcement.

I would be terrified if I lived or worked there.

Dupree · #**293** 07-08-2011, 10:00 PM

Am I remembering incorrectly or wasn't it reported that her student id was the only thing missing? Maybe she was headed across the street to the law school/library to study/research.

From the law library's website:
"In the law library, students find comfortable research and study areas conducive to quiet study or to collaborative work. Carrels, tables, soft seating, “smart” study rooms and a technology lounge, all in a wireless environment, are available to law students 24 hours a day."

SaMy · #**294** 07-08-2011, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darmela

Here is a link to Lauren's Facebook page, in case any of you are interested:

www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=53300422

524 friends. No Stephen McDaniel. I'm just sayin'. And I can't find him on FB at all. Which I find sort of weird for a guy his age. But it's possible he's made himself un-searchable. But if he has a super duper private page he still isn't on Lauren's friend list and even casual acquaintances make their way onto FB friends lists usually. Just one more oddity with SM. Not that that makes him guilty of anything other than being strange.

darmela · #**295** 07-08-2011, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaMy

524 friends. No Stephen McDaniel. I'm just sayin'. And I can't find him on FB at all. Which I find sort of weird for a guy his age. But it's possible he's made himself un-searchable. But if he has a super duper private page he still isn't on Lauren's friend list and even casual acquaintances make their way onto FB friends lists usually. Just one more oddity with SM. Not that that makes him guilty of anything other than being strange.

I know SaMy! I've searched high and low for anything on SM and have come up empty-handed. When I first found Lauren's Facebook page I immediately scrolled down to where "SM" could possibly be. Didn't see it. Oh well... He's quite the elusive one.

SiberianSleuth · #**296** 07-08-2011, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaMy

I was thinking the same thing as Truth! If there are in fact other victims, he could have already perfected the process of dismemberment before he victimized Lauren. Through experimentation, wouldn't he have come to figure out that a tarp or some sort of drop cloth was necessary? His first attempts were probably very messy but maybe he's had tons of time to clean those up. No one is confirming there are other parts, let alone how old they are.

One just need watch an episode of Dexter to learn this. Ohhh, think I need to find a new pic :{

Sonya610 · #**297** 07-08-2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaMy

I was thinking the same thing as Truth! If there are in fact other victims, he could have already perfected the process of dismemberment before he victimized Lauren. Through experimentation, wouldn't he have come to figure out that a tarp or some sort of drop cloth was necessary? His first attempts were probably very messy but maybe he's had tons of time to clean those up. No one is confirming there are other parts, let alone how old they are.

A whole lot of folks around here have had some experience hunting deer and then "processing" the meat. Same principles involved, drain the blood, quarter the remains.

Dismemberment of a human corpse is not really any different than hunters butchering their kills. Figuring it out wouldn't require various murder victims, just googling "butchering deer" would provide lots of info (plus lots of videos where guys do it amazingly fast, they all use fancy suspension equipment but still, the knives and hacksaws and sledgehammers are pretty amazing).

The dismemberment should not be "that messy" if the body is properly bled out.

Video of a deceased deer being processed...it is graphic but no animal suffering:

YouTube - ‪The 5 minute deer butchering‬&rlm;

Destini · #**298** 07-08-2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dupree

Am I remembering incorrectly or wasn't it reported that her student id was the only thing missing? Maybe she was headed across the street to the law school/library to study/research.

From the law library's website:
"In the law library, students find comfortable research and study areas conducive to quiet study or to collaborative work. Carrels, tables, soft seating, “smart” study rooms and a technology lounge, all in a wireless environment, are available to law students 24 hours a day."

That's what I remember, too. And when I googled the address for the law library v. her address, it's only 282 feet. But you would think if she went to the library they would have her on video there .... hmmm, maybe that is the video! Maybe that's why all the hush/hush, too.

Sonya610 · #**299** 07-08-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dupree

This could be why the FBI became involved so quickly. Other than dismemberment, of course.

The FBI likely became involved when the big wigs at mercer heard that a pretty blond law graduate was found dismembered virtually on the doorstep of the Law School. One of the higher ups said "Okay I am calling my friend Tom at the FBI" (meaning this needs to be solved asap, this situation needs to be contained as much as possible; our enrollment is going to plummet but if we find the killer quick maybe it won't be a huge scandal).

SaMy · #**300** 07-08-2011, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonya610

A whole lot of folks around here have had some experience hunting deer and then "processing" the meat. Same principles involved, drain the blood, quarter the remains.

Dismemberment of a human corpse is not really any different than hunters butchering their kills. Figuring it out wouldn't require various murder victims, just googling "butchering deer" would provide lots of info (plus lots of videos where guys do it amazingly fast, they all use fancy suspension equipment but still, the knives and hacksaws and sledgehammers are pretty amazing).

The dismemberment should not be "that messy" if the body is properly bled out.

Video of a deceased deer being processed...it is graphic but no animal suffering: YouTube - ‪The 5 minute deer butchering‬&rlm;

Thanks Sonya...not sure I'll actually be able to watch the video, but appreciate the explanation.

ETA - Yup. Nope. Can't watch that.