IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #20

[Jupiter812]

Originally Posted by Skigirl

I'm originally from a town in Westchester about 20 minutes away from Lauren's and I and several others I knew from my high school went to a very large midwestern state school. A number of us had cars but didn't bring them to campus at various times because parking was such a gigantic pain. By my junior year, the inconvenience of not being able to get the the laundromat and grocery store outweighed the inconvenience and expense of parking for me, but at least one of my HS friends never did have a car. Most who had them didn't bring them freshman/sophomore year.

----------------------
Doh - just realize that you'd edited your comment to reflect LE's comments - sorry

Anyway, if anyone is wondering why kids might not have a car even if they can afford one, parking can be a factor.

Well there is ample parking at 5 North, underground parking at SW, and LS had a car as recently as December because she called her dad about car trouble according to his business partner. This is on findLauren site.

[Jupiter812]

Originally Posted by always curious

I may be wrong...but I remember someone posting about the POI's area of studies. I could have misread the post and be wrong, but I thought it said that JW and JR were both in SPEAS. No one ever commented on this...but it stuck in my mind for awhile. They are in different years of college...senior and sophomore...and JR was even studying abroad this past spring semester...so it's completely possible that they never ran into each other and it means nothing. But combined with them both being in the same sorority (when it was active along with it being underground)...and the fact that they both were linked to LS...some red flags went up in my mind.

By all accounts I've read, they didn't know each other. But they seem to have an awful lot in common. Just saying....

Yes, that stuck in my mind too but for a different reason. CR is in Kelley/Real Estate and MB is Telecomm. I figure JW and JR were not accepted into Kelley so they took SPEA as a fallback. They both are Mgt. majors as I recall.

[GobBluth]

Originally Posted by always curious

I may be wrong...but I remember someone posting about the POI's area of studies. I could have misread the post and be wrong, but I thought it said that JW and JR were both in SPEAS. No one ever commented on this...but it stuck in my mind for awhile. They are in different years of college...senior and sophomore...and JR was even studying abroad this past spring semester...so it's completely possible that they never ran into each other and it means nothing. But combined with them both being in the same sorority (when it was active along with it being underground)...and the fact that they both were linked to LS...some red flags went up in my mind.

By all accounts I've read, they didn't know each other. But they seem to have an awful lot in common. Just saying....

There is a link on the first page of this thread as to who's who in the case. It lists most people involved, prior arrests, their lawyers, age, area of studies, and where they are now, if known. (It doesn't mention anyone involved in the altercation at SW, though.)

Sorry, I would post link, but don't know how, lol. Anyone feel free to post it.

Does anyone know if there is a compiled list somewhere for viewing that has details that are known in this case? Such as witness testimonies (including the altercation), witness media interviews, timelines, LE's releases of info, polygraph and DNA testing, surveillance video info, etc? Really just the facts as they were given, you know, all in one post or article.

Also, any others working on this, like the TG guy if heard of?

[always curious]

Originally Posted by Jupiter812

It's not Friday morning it is Friday evening 5:30 p.m. on the day that Btown observed anyway. I don't think any one of these POI could keep face with LS's body there all day.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...er#post6938172

Duly noted...my time was off. It still seems to be before LE was searching dumpsters so it's completely plausible that her body was there. That was my only point. I don't think the missing persons report was made until 4pm. How soon would they be digging in dumpsters? Probably after trash pickup. As far as the POI not keeping face....I can understand that point as well...but JR gave his story over the phone to HT and got out of Bloomington rather quickly. I'm not saying he is definitely responsible, just my thought when you made that comment. It could still be a stranger abduction...but the dumpster seems to be more and more likely if all of these reports are true.



Yes, I've thought this is why they first said it was searched then said it wasn't. Of course most everyone wants to eviscerate them for being so incompetent and bungling the case when in fact it could prove to be a brilliant strategy. That's my hope anyway.

They could also be searching right now, just not publicizing it which would be a media circus of course.

Would absolutely be brilliant! Totally agree...if it were to work. They did originally say yes it had been searched...and then no...just like they backtracked on the fight as SW which turned out to be true. Interesting. And the parents are completely supporting LE...but more distant relatives (cousins from NY) are posting on LS sites pleading with LE to search the landfill. Does that seem odd? Like extended family members don't know what the parents do? You'd think the parents would be the first to push LE to search the landfills so that they can find their daughter....and they aren't talking about it. Just seems suspicious to me.

Yeah...it'd be hard to shush the media. Local media doesn't seem to be reporting much though as it is. Don't you think that they would have scoured Sports for someone who was there to interview them? Why hasn't that happened? They only interviewed her friends which had no first hand knowledge of where she was...or her physical state...after 12:30am. Just seems like there were lots of people that would have had seen LS that night at Sports or SW that could vouch for her actions. Where are they? And why has no media tracked down and reported more on the boys involved in the altercation? People are talking....anonymously....just not to MSM. Hmmm. Sounds like a big shush effort to me.

The only info we have is from one person who saw the SW video and leaked LS's condition while leaving there. No mention of the altercation. If they saw the video's then could one speculate that they saw that part as well? Why no mention of it? Why leak one part and not the other? IMO they are being hushed. Just wondering how much weight LE have. Keeping the landfill search out of the media would be highly unlikely...at this point in time. What if they searched it before the landfill commotion started recently? It's pretty far away...Terra Haute...so is it possible that it went under the radar at that point in time? They've known about the dumpster hits since their cadaver dogs were used in June. Food for thought.

[Jupiter812]

Originally Posted by GobBluth

There is a link on the first page of this thread as to who's who in the case. It lists most people involved, prior arrests, their lawyers, age, area of studies, and where they are now, if known. (It doesn't mention anyone involved in the altercation at SW, though.)

Sorry, I would post link, but don't know how, lol. Anyone feel free to post it.

Does anyone know if there is a compiled list somewhere for viewing that has details that are known in this case? Such as witness testimonies (including the altercation), witness media interviews, timelines, LE's releases of info, polygraph and DNA testing, surveillance video info, etc? Really just the facts as they were given, you know, all in one post or article.

Also, any others working on this, like the TG guy if heard of?

Here's the link you referenced. I never knew it was on page 1! I googled it unsuccessfully a bit ago.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/sto...qp-0075723.sto

I've often thought how useful it would be to have a spreadsheet of all the known facts but alas, there is none that I know of.

[always curious]

Originally Posted by Jupiter812

Yes, that stuck in my mind too but for a different reason. CR and MB are in Kelley. I figure JW and JR were not accepted into Kelley so they took SPEA as a fallback. They both are Mgt. majors as I recall.

Yeah...lots of connections within the group. CR and MB were roommates and good buddies...that's known. The reason the JW/JR school connections struck me is because everyone keeps saying how JR and JW didn't know each other...so they would have had no contact with each other that night. For example some think...JR contacted JW to come and get LS from his place when she returned after 3am. She was intoxicated, no shoes, no phone, no keys. If they knew each other, would JR contact JW for LS? I have doubted this all along...because everyone said that even though they both knew LS and were in the same sorority, that they were never friends. And then later in the posts (a lot later), we find out that they were also taking the same classes...not necessarily together though. It was just another link pulling them closer together. It made me stop and say "hmmmm, interesting". Lol. And just for the record, even though I'm throwing this info out for others to digest and form their own opinion (because someone asked about it)....I personally don't think they knew each other. Probably knew of each other though.

[Jupiter812]

https://www.facebook.com/home.php?re...08180112562676

LE visits ChickJustin. This probably won't stay up long, watch it while you can.

[GobBluth]

Originally Posted by Tr.

Well..obviously you theorize that CR left SW for fear of being caught on the premises and face possible trespass, pi, doc charges..etc
I get it.
If I follow correctly then you believe LS ultimately OD'd afterward and was disposed of in a dumpster...please correct as necessary.

I wonder if the group of assailants were in as much a hurry to leave the premises as they had just committed an assault?
Seems to me that they would have more reason to bolt then CR did.
But then maybe they have a lesser fear of arrest then CR, after all they initiated the altercation?
It's amazing to me how the victim could be that fearful of a police encounter while his assailants are seemingly the opposite.

CR also was in a diversion for a prior illegal consumption arrest (his second one.) This pretrial diversion was and is in effect until April 2012. That means that he plead guilty to the charge, was on probation until April 2012, and if he has no more arrests/convictions by then, his record is pretty much cleared.

If he was arrested that night for public intox, contrib to minor, or possession, etc. and convicted, he would automatically be found guilty of prior charges that were still under diversion period.

I think that is a possibility as to why he just left after altercation. But, I don't think that their leaving is strange. Most of the events, actually, seem plausible to me that night as the kids tell them, esp for intoxicated kids in college.

The strange things to me are the altercation (maybe two), and the Spierers' pleas to "friends" of LS to come forward. That's what leads me to believe that at least one of those kids is involved, somehow, with something. Even if it is just withholding info. Just my thoughts, tho.

[Jupiter812]

Originally Posted by always curious

The only info we have is from one person who saw the SW video and leaked LS's condition while leaving there. No mention of the altercation. If they saw the video's then could one speculate that they saw that part as well? Why no mention of it? Why leak one part and not the other? IMO they are being hushed. Just wondering how much weight LE have. Keeping the landfill search out of the media would be highly unlikely...at this point in time. What if they searched it before the landfill commotion started recently? It's pretty far away...Terra Haute...so is it possible that it went under the radar at that point in time? They've known about the dumpster hits since their cadaver dogs were used in June. Food for thought.

<snipped.

It's too bad the IDS staffers were wrapping things up for the summer. I believe they could have made some inroads with this group. Tony Gatto talked to an employee at Sports. He has that discussion on his blog. He was not able to get a second interview with this source nor the 3:38 manager.

I didn't know the cadaver dogs were in June. That's good to know. Thx

[Frogzilla]

Originally Posted by bonechaos

Many people have questioned why JR would admit being the last person to see LS if he was involved with her disappearance. Here is why I believe he would. This assumes she was, indeed, with JR.

1. He knew there was a possibility that someone would tell LE that she had gone to his place. LS probably told him she had just come from CR/MB's place when she got there. Therefore, he knew there was a possibility that LS told the boys where she was going before she left - i.e., "Okay, MB, I'm going to pop in at JR's now. See ya later." If MB told LE where she was headed (since CR apparently doesn't remember anything) and JR denied she had ever been there, that would cast even more suspicion on him than if he was upfront about it.

2. He knew LS might have left DNA behind in his apartment. Fibers, whatever - I'm sure he watched CSI and the likes and was afraid that LE might swoop in, find one of Lauren's hairs, and charge him with murder. If he was caught lying about her being there and LE found her DNA in his apartment, he would be in big trouble.

3. He had a guest there, by all accounts. If he lied about LS being there, and the guest said she was there, then he would, once again, be in big trouble.

Getting caught lying is the number one way to be named a suspect. JR definitely had a reason to tell LE that LS was with him, guilty or not.

I believe the only one of the three reasons you put forward that makes sense is 1. Getting caught in a lie that she wasn't there when she really was would look really bad. Would be much easier to say she just left on her own accord, whether she did or not.
Number 2 is a little bit more tricky, only because we know she visited JR at times over the last year and she was also at his apartment earlier in the night before going to the bar.
Number 3 is really tricky because then you have to not only figure the scenarios which are possible, but the possible reactions to all the scenarios. Examples would be, maybe JR, guest and LS were all sitting together and LS began to show signs she was ODing, would you think trying to get help for her makes sense in that scenario? Maybe JR and LS passed out before the guest did and the guest saw it as an opportunity to take advantage of LS. When JR and guest awoke, maybe LS was dead and JR didn't want to explain why he had a dead girl in his apartment all night and the guest, well his reason for hiding her would be obvious. Too many possible scenarios and reactions to pinpoint one.

[elmomom]

Originally Posted by Jupiter812

https://www.facebook.com/home.php?re...08180112562676

LE visits ChickJustin. This probably won't stay up long, watch it while you can.

thanks for the tip!

[PlainJaneDoe]

Originally Posted by Jupiter812

https://www.facebook.com/home.php?re...08180112562676

LE visits ChickJustin. This probably won't stay up long, watch it while you can.

[Frogzilla]

Originally Posted by Jupiter812

https://www.facebook.com/home.php?re...08180112562676

LE visits ChickJustin. This probably won't stay up long, watch it while you can.

WOW LMAO She just unloaded on this guy and he seems quite confused. She seems to wonder why they aren't asking her about LS, but I think she made her ideas very clear a few times. If she wasn't on their radar before, she certainly is now. All this video needs is a UFO sighting to put the icing on the conspiracy theory cake.

LOL Elmomom, you put the UFO in your post before I finished mine.

[bonechaos]

Originally Posted by Frogzilla

I believe the only one of the three reasons you put forward that makes sense is 1. Getting caught in a lie that she wasn't there when she really was would look really bad. Would be much easier to say she just left on her own accord, whether she did or not.
Number 2 is a little bit more tricky, only because we know she visited JR at times over the last year and she was also at his apartment earlier in the night before going to the bar.
Number 3 is really tricky because then you have to not only figure the scenarios which are possible, but the possible reactions to all the scenarios. Examples would be, maybe JR, guest and LS were all sitting together and LS began to show signs she was ODing, would you think trying to get help for her makes sense in that scenario? Maybe JR and LS passed out before the guest did and the guest saw it as an opportunity to take advantage of LS. When JR and guest awoke, maybe LS was dead and JR didn't want to explain why he had a dead girl in his apartment all night and the guest, well his reason for hiding her would be obvious. Too many possible scenarios and reactions to pinpoint one.

re: #2. I thought about that too, but I don't think JR would have necessarily thought, "Well, Lauren has been in my apartment before, so no big deal if her DNA is found here." Best to be safe than sorry. With the influx of ridiculous CSI-type shows, he may have considered that LE could determine things like when exactly she was last there, etc. Again, just something that could have been going through his head.

re: #3. I wasn't really considering exact scenarios; I don't really think they are relevant. Regardless of what happened, regardless of whether the guest was involved in anything illegal that went on - if he admits LS was there, game over. I'm thinking about the perception of JR here. The existence of a witness who can testify LS was there is threat enough. JR has no way of knowing what the guest would/will possibly confess when questioned.

I wasn't making an argument as to what happened, just why JR would admit that he was the last to see Lauren if he was guilty of something (if he was not, the reasons why he would be truthful are obvious). Because in all three situations, if he did not, there is a possibility of him being caught lying. Then again, you only need to believe one reason to understand why he would admit he last saw LS.

[elmomom]

Originally Posted by Frogzilla

WOW LMAO She just unloaded on this guy and he seems quite confused. She seems to wonder why they aren't asking her about LS, but I think she made her ideas very clear a few times. If she wasn't on their radar before, she certainly is now. All this video needs is a UFO sighting to put the icing on the conspiracy theory cake.

LOL Elmomom, you put the UFO in your post before I finished mine.

Great minds and all that?

The sad part is it seems everyone on the FB case discussion page seems to think she's onto something. I know she's extremely bright and all, but .....

[jenniek]

Originally Posted by elmomom

Great minds and all that?

The sad part is it seems everyone on the FB case discussion page seems to think she's onto something. I know she's extremely bright and all, but .....

yeah they keep saying "well she must have said something true, otherwise they wouldn't be there" "and they didn't arrest her"

this is seriously taking up LE's time and NOT in a good way.

[bonechaos]

THIS IS RUMOR: A girl on that facebook page said JR has not enrolled in fall classes and moved completely out of Bloomington. Can anyone confirm?

IF true, I don't think that means anything. It would be extremely difficult to continue life in a place where you are suspected of foul play in such a highly publicized case. Just thought it was an interesting comment, though.

[jenniek]

& that video is not private.. that didn't take long lol

[Frogzilla]

Originally Posted by bonechaos

re: #2. I thought about that too, but I don't think JR would have necessarily thought, "Well, Lauren has been in my apartment before, so no big deal if her DNA is found here." Best to be safe than sorry. With the influx of ridiculous CSI-type shows, he may have considered that LE could determine things like when exactly she was last there, etc. Again, just something that could have been going through his head.

re: #3. I wasn't really considering exact scenarios; I don't really think they are relevant. Regardless of what happened, regardless of whether the guest was involved in anything illegal that went on - if he admits LS was there, game over. I'm thinking about the perception of JR here. The existence of a witness who can testify LS was there is threat enough. JR has no way of knowing what the guest would/will possibly confess when questioned.

I wasn't making an argument as to what happened, just why JR would admit that he was the last to see Lauren if he was guilty of something (if he was not, the reasons why he would be truthful are obvious). Because in all three situations, if he did not, there is a possibility of him being caught lying. Then again, you only need to believe one reason to understand why he would admit he last saw LS.

Would have to be a complete moron to say she was not there when you know somebody else knows she was. This is also why the blanket statement of seeing her leave at X time is a perfect cover. It covers that LS was there and he could say they had a tea party and it also covers him of knowing what happened after she left. JR knows there are no cameras outside of his building and there are 4 directions LS could go once she left. That would be obvious 100/100 times vs. compounding lies. So whether she left there or not seems quite smart to say she just left, no?
If you are dealing with a dead body in your home, some strands of hair you can't identify without really looking for are a much lower priority than the body, same with fibers she may have contacted, they are easy to explain if she had been there. After disposing of the body, come back and do some vacuuming. Why concern yourself with small details when you can void it all with a few words. Also, how can you not consider specific scenarios in discussing this case, they are at the heart of what could of happened to LS. One could draw up an equal amount of scenarios why two people would have equal amounts to lose or a situation where one has everything to lose and the other does not. All these young adults come from seemingly wealthy and respectable families, that in itself implies there will always be something to lose.

[PlainJaneDoe]

Originally Posted by bonechaos

THIS IS RUMOR: A girl on that facebook page said JR has not enrolled in fall classes and moved completely out of Bloomington. Can anyone confirm?

IF true, I don't think that means anything. It would be extremely difficult to continue life in a place where you are suspected of foul play in such a highly publicized case. Just thought it was an interesting comment, though.

BBM. ITA with the bolded part.

[Tr.]

Originally Posted by Frogzilla

I believe the only one of the three reasons you put forward that makes sense is 1. Getting caught in a lie that she wasn't there when she really was would look really bad.

...about as bad as saying she was when she wasn't.

[GobBluth]

I asked earlier for a place with all of the compiled data from this case, and this site seems to have a lot, and includes some speculation as well (but it does clarify between verified testimony and speculation.)

I hope I can post this. http://legalpublication.blogspot.com...e-puzzles.html And I hope it works, lol.

That Chick Justin comes across like a total wing-nut, IMHO. She might want to change her tactics. Just sayin'.

[bx2]

Originally Posted by elmomom

yes, AB/ZO (and BB) live in either 10th and College Apts or 10th&College Village both of which are proximate to the alley

This is confirmed to be the Villages, at least as of earlier this year. Look at civil not criminal proceedings.

[bonechaos]

Originally Posted by Frogzilla

Why concern yourself with small details when you can void it all with a few words. Also, how can you not consider specific scenarios in discussing this case, they are at the heart of what could of happened to LS. One could draw up an equal amount of scenarios why two people would have equal amounts to lose or a situation where one has everything to lose and the other does not. All these young adults come from seemingly wealthy and respectable families, that in itself implies there will always be something to lose.

I wasn't saying not to consider specific scenarios in the case. I was saying it did not matter what happened in order for JR to be motivated to tell the truth if there was a witness. People are interpreting what I said incorrectly; I apologize. I don't want people to think I was saying not to consider specific scenarios. I was making a very general point in which specific scenarios did not change motivation to tell the truth. i.e., JR could have killed her, he could have watched her OD, he could have watched the guest do something to her - the fact that there was a witness is the only important element to the point I was making that he was motivated to tell the truth as long as there was a witness. Alas, if I can't explain what I meant well enough here, I won't be able to in future posts.

So to change topic - how many of you believe JR is involved, and if so, how?

[elmomom]

Originally Posted by bx2

This is confirmed to be the Villages, at least as of earlier this year. Look at civil not criminal proceedings.

Interesting! thanks for the heads up. Wonder how many doors had to be broken for a threat of eviction.. lol. But it looks like it was canceled and dropped if I am reading it correctly.