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  #326  
Old 08-03-2011, 01:44 AM
~SuperSleuth~ ~SuperSleuth~ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bessie View Post
Quote:
Tuesday night, the stakes got higher, when Bibb County District Attorney Greg Winters stepped up to McDaniel’s cell at about 9:30 to serve a murder warrant.
Someone at macon.com had an issue with this, and I asked why.
He said that arrest warrants must be served by an officer who is legally authorized to deliver them, such as a deputy sheriff.
He said Mr. Winters could be present, but he couldn't be the one to actually hand the warrant to McDaniel.

Could one of our lawyers chime in on this?
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  #327  
Old 08-03-2011, 01:49 AM
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I don't get the feeling that anything was rushed. Just the opposite, I think LE has given painstaking attention to procedure and following the book step by step. I'm also pretty sure all parties knew what was coming down tonight, or had a good idea, anyway.
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  #328  
Old 08-03-2011, 01:51 AM
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SuperSleuth, please edit your post. We're not allowed to copy and paste posts from other sites. If you would, please paraphrase the comment for us. Thanks.
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Casey Anthony, bankruptcy/Zenaida Gonzalez deposition, 01/23/2014
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Muddy water in the street
; Muddy water 'round my feet... as sung by the inimitable Bessie Smith, "Muddy Water (A Mississippi Moan)"
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  #329  
Old 08-03-2011, 02:06 AM
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I feel so sorry for both families. Hopefully LE has overwhelming evidence and SM will tell them where the rest of her body is. Rest in peace Lauren.
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  #330  
Old 08-03-2011, 02:08 AM
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Jurors have to follow the rules and have the answers to the questions to convict

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomkat View Post
1 .........body (torso) was found on the complex indicating the perp was someone who lived on the premises and

2...........the master key, SMcD claims he didnt' know was a master key according to an earlier article AND I read elsewhere it was found by police in the refrigerator of SMcD. Is that correct? Not to mention the video but like they say............you can make anything fit if you try.

but obviously nothing is in... that screams "guilty"

I sure hope like 3doglady......that it doesnt' boil down to all circumstantial evidence, apparently jurors dont' know you can convict with such evidence
(Bolded by me)
Tomkat, I have a feeling you are speaking about the jurors in the Anthony case, but every jury is criticized when the outcome is not what some expected. The case of LG would be no exception.

This is something the majority of the public seems to be confused on and if I could go on a nationwide tour to educate the masses, I surely would. Let me clear this up.

Jurors have written instructions to follow on each crime the defendant is accused of. (They can't just sit there like they do in the movies and criticize hair color, style of dress, basic shifty eyes, dislike that someone used the "f" word to their mother, then decide they don't like the person, and convict them. People...that is not how it works. Some need to turn off reality TV and get familiar with their own justice system.)

I'm going to put this in very elementary terms, simplified. (Some of you know this, some of you don't.)

People are upset with jurors in many cases. This wasn't the first, won't be the last, but jurors are NOT to blame. They have to follow the rules given to them, and in the Anthony case, that's what they did. (The State Bar of Florida wrote the rules, fyi.) The public apparently wanted the jurors to NOT follow the law or the rules they were given in deciding this case.

What rules, you ask? Well, here's an example:

CMA was accused of Murder in First Degree, Aggravated Child Abuse, Aggravated Manslaughter, and 4 counts of Providing False Information to a LE Officer.

The jury has a list of these crimes and has to decide what they feel the State has proven to help them answer the questions.

They use their list of questions to guide them.

To prove the crime of First Degree Premeditated Murder, the State must prove the following 3 elements beyond a reasonable doubt:
1. Caylee Marie Anthony is dead.
2. The death was caused by the criminal act of Casey Marie Anthony.
3. There was a premeditated killing of Caylee Marie Anthony.

The jurors did not know/could not be sure of how Caylee died, so they could not answer YES to #'s 2 or 3. FIRST DEGREE MURDER (premeditated) WAS NO LONGER AN OPTION.

To prove the crime of First Degree Felony Murder, the State must prove the following 3 elements beyond a reasonable doubt:
1. Caylee Marie Anthony is dead.
2. The death occurred as a consequence of and while Casey Marie Anthony was engaged in the commission of Aggravated Child Abuse
OR
The death occurred as a consequence of and while CMA was attempting to commit Aggravated Child Abuse.
3. Casey Marie Anthony was actually the person who killed Caylee Marie Anthony.

The jurors did not know/could not be sure of how Caylee died, so they could not answer YES to #'s 2 or 3. FIRST DEGREE MURDER (felony) WAS NO LONGER AN OPTION.

and so on....down the list of other crimes she was accused of.

The jury had no idea how Caylee died, so when they were going down the list of answering their questions, their hands were tied by simply NOT KNOWING how the child died. They could not speculate. They could not be willy nilly. They had to use the evidence provided to them and there was nothing that showed them beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused was guilty.

That is how the jurors arrived at their verdict. That one little tricky thing, called HOW DID SHE DIE, kept them from being able to convict on anything to do with murder because they obviously had no clue.

So, as it relates to this case, the ability to know how a person died will most likely be very necessary in the jury process of deciding who caused it, so the police better lock this one down tight before giving their case to the State to prosecute. If they cannot prove enough to rule out any other person in any other way, beyond any reasonable doubt, whomever is eventually accused would walk.
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  #331  
Old 08-03-2011, 02:09 AM
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I know this is early in the case to bring this up but is the death penalty an option for a felony murder conviction? Does anyone in Macon know if SM's attorney, Buford, is death qualified if it is an option for this crime. Also, does anyone think he would get involved in SM's defense on the murder charge?
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  #332  
Old 08-03-2011, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bessie View Post
I don't get the feeling that anything was rushed. Just the opposite, I think LE has given painstaking attention to procedure and following the book step by step. I'm also pretty sure all parties knew what was coming down tonight, or had a good idea, anyway.
I definitely agree.

One thing I do find interesting, though, is that LE is staying quiet until tomorrow at 2. Not even anything from their spokesperson, Jami Gaudet. I would think they would've waited until tomorrow morning to charge him - then tell us that at the press conference, along with further details and answer (or at least address) some questions.

Basically - the murder charge was discovered online through the inmate info. I would've thought at least a statement. However, that may also be because they have ALOT to say (after being so quiet for so long) and are just waiting for a better time to address it all.
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  #333  
Old 08-03-2011, 02:16 AM
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And just wanted to add - I truly hope that now there is a charge, Lauren's family will soon be able to bring all of her home.

There is still a long ways to go, but at least maybe they're one little step closer to finding peace and slowly healing.
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  #334  
Old 08-03-2011, 02:45 AM
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A jury does NOT have to be given or know a cause of death or how the victim died.. That is absolutely wrong and had zilch to do with anything!! It happens daily that murderers are convicted and sentenced to death without the jury ever knowing a cause of death or even a theory of how the victim died..
Scott Peterson.. Guilty and on death row and the jury was never given how Laci died!! Laci's torso and thigh were all that were recovered of her..

That's breaking it down real plain and simple.. The fact is there is no cause of death, how the victim was murdered.. Necessary!!
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  #335  
Old 08-03-2011, 02:49 AM
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Pearl- I can answer that yes, felony murder does qualify for the death penalty.. As far as Buford.. I read he was qualified to handle the death penalty case but whether or not he chooses to represent SM in the murder case.. I do not know..
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  #336  
Old 08-03-2011, 03:03 AM
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Was just reading that Lilburn(his hometown) was only 98 miles from Macon.. With him having 3-4 full days and nights to not only thoroughly clean up but to dispose of all of her remains minus her torso.. Makes me think that as is the case so many times with a perp.. They go to where they are the most familiar to dispose of a victim.. That's what even had me look to see how far his hometown was..

I pray to God that now charged he do the ONLY thing that the Giddings family is asking of him.. Give up the location of the rest of her remains.. Sadly I know most likely this will not happen tho.. So, I certainly hope they are able to trace his steps in those 3-4 days(gas receipts if he traveled far, etc).. But I would definitely be finding out places in Lilburn that he was very familiar with.. Because with having those 3-4 days an hour and half road trip really is nothing of a distance to travel to dispose of remains..
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  #337  
Old 08-03-2011, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomkat View Post
No, the sister that got there had to enter with a key, on Sunday, right?............. but I forgot the Landlady was there, what Wednesday? Wow, so that means that everything was removed/cleaned (that was visible) from sunday and prior to wednesday, or early wednesday.

Tomkat, what's your source of info on LG's sister entering her apartment on Sunday, June 26th? Where did you read/see/hear that?

It's been my understanding that LG was last seen on Saturday, June 25th.

Landlord went in on Wednesday, June 29th.

A friend was asked to go over there (by LG's sister) on Wednesday.

Friend (LS) entered and noted that landlord had left a note on the door.

Mercer Police were called over around 10 pm on Wednesday night.

Kaitlyn Wheeler, sister of LG, from Maryland, called 911 and a Macon Police Officer Descoteaux was dispatched at approximately 12:52 am

Macon PD SGT Copeland contacted the on call missing persons detective, and Detective Bridger was assigned. Detective Bridger decided NOT TO RESPOND TO THE SCENE. Detective Bridger stated he would just complete a report and follow up later.

(I'm still curious about which Mercer Police Officer ( actually a Macon Police Officer) was called to LG's apartment around 10 pm on Wednesday, June 29th, and why it took Kaitlyn Wheeler calling 911 to get more attention to Lauren's unknown whereabouts if that Mercer Police Officer is also Macon Police Officer?

And another thing that is confusing is that Detective Bridger is a Macon Police Officer,(missing persons) but he also works the evening shift at Mercer University and is listed on their website as a campus officer. Did HE go to Lauren's apartment at 10 pm and then was called again after midnight by SGT Copeland? Why did it take a 911 call to the Macon PD to get ANOTHER officer to go out and then when they notified the MERCER evening shift police officer/missing persons detective, he decided to NOT RESPOND? I wish somebody could officially verify what the heck went on with the police out there that night. Did Bridger or any Mercer/Macon Police Officer ever escort Lauren to her apartment from campus, as a courtesy? It says that an escort to/from campus is offered on their website, so I just wondered if she had a personal relationship/friendship with any Macon Police Officer who may have escorted her across the street to her apartment if she ever walked?)
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  #338  
Old 08-03-2011, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
Was just reading that Lilburn(his hometown) was only 98 miles from Macon.. With him having 3-4 full days and nights to not only thoroughly clean up but to dispose of all of her remains minus her torso.. Makes me think that as is the case so many times with a perp.. They go to where they are the most familiar to dispose of a victim.. That's what even had me look to see how far his hometown was..

I pray to God that now charged he do the ONLY thing that the Giddings family is asking of him.. Give up the location of the rest of her remains.. Sadly I know most likely this will not happen tho.. So, I certainly hope they are able to trace his steps in those 3-4 days(gas receipts if he traveled far, etc).. But I would definitely be finding out places in Lilburn that he was very familiar with.. Because with having those 3-4 days an hour and half road trip really is nothing of a distance to travel to dispose of remains..
I pray for that very same thing. I think the only way that he would even consider an admission is if they have very conclusive DNA evidence that would link him. However, that earlier article posted said that he has not spoken (which we pretty much knew, since he's had a lawyer) and that he did not speak tonight when served.

Another thing, not just Lilburn, but McD has lived in the Macon area quite awhile (undergrad and law school). There are many very rural areas spread all around here that are not very far at all.

Maybe some new light will be shed at the press conference - hopefully much more than the previous ones.
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  #339  
Old 08-03-2011, 03:20 AM
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Charged with a crime does not mean GUILTY of a crime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
Was just reading that Lilburn(his hometown) was only 98 miles from Macon.. With him having 3-4 full days and nights to not only thoroughly clean up but to dispose of all of her remains minus her torso.. Makes me think that as is the case so many times with a perp.. They go to where they are the most familiar to dispose of a victim.. That's what even had me look to see how far his hometown was..

I pray to God that now charged he do the ONLY thing that the Giddings family is asking of him.. Give up the location of the rest of her remains.. Sadly I know most likely this will not happen tho.. So, I certainly hope they are able to trace his steps in those 3-4 days(gas receipts if he traveled far, etc).. But I would definitely be finding out places in Lilburn that he was very familiar with.. Because with having those 3-4 days an hour and half road trip really is nothing of a distance to travel to dispose of remains..
(My response is in reference to the line I respectfully bolded up above.)
Charged does not mean guilty. He may not know anything.

Innocent until proven guilty. The evidence has to be presented.
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  #340  
Old 08-03-2011, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
A jury does NOT have to be given or know a cause of death or how the victim died.. That is absolutely wrong and had zilch to do with anything!! It happens daily that murderers are convicted and sentenced to death without the jury ever knowing a cause of death or even a theory of how the victim died..
Scott Peterson.. Guilty and on death row and the jury was never given how Laci died!! Laci's torso and thigh were all that were recovered of her..

That's breaking it down real plain and simple.. The fact is there is no cause of death, how the victim was murdered.. Necessary!!
If this was directed at me, I will respond by saying the JURORS in the case I was referencing were very clear in the fact that THEY COULD NOT ANSWER THE QUESTIONS given to them in the jury instructions of deciding guilty or not guilty because they didn't even know HOW the child died, so they could not be sure SHE did it. (Also, others were involved that could potentially be the ones who caused Caylee's death, so the jury had to weigh that out and they did.)

I didn't say a cause of death has to be given or known in every case, just that it was a huge factor to the jury in the one we've most recently been exposed to in the media and it would be a GREAT idea to know the cause (when there may be a question of whom) so the jury can know beyond a reasonable doubt. The Casey Anthony jury looked at it like a hurdle. And she was aquitted.
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  #341  
Old 08-03-2011, 05:35 AM
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Stephen McDaniel Charged With Murder

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/1...ed-With-Murder

Lauren Giddings' neighbor and Mercer law school classmate Stephen McDaniel has been charged with felony murder in her death, her father Bill Giddings said late Tuesday.
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  #342  
Old 08-03-2011, 05:56 AM
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My prayers truly go out to the Giddings family, this monstrosity and absolute senseless crime can now be punished.

My gut feeling all along was that SM was their guy and that they secured him on other charges so they could methodically investigate this horrid crime.

It is eerie to re-watch the news interview with SM, what a sinister and evil monster, to play with emotion and the facade of actual care and concern after committing such a sick and twisted crime.

SM will get everything that is coming to him and his law degree cannot and will not help him, may justice be served!

Yes, SM will go through the legal process that he knows so very well and I firmly believe LE and the FBI do and will have an ample amount of DNA, fiber and other evidence to prove his guilt in a court of law.
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  #343  
Old 08-03-2011, 06:11 AM
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A quote from the famous prosecutor and author, Vincent Bugliosi: "Circumstantial evidence has erroneously come to be associated in the public mind and vernacular with a weak case. ('Oh, that's just circumstantial evidence.') But nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, most first degree murder cases are based on circumstantial evidence. This is so because other than eye-witness testimony (and in some jurisdictions, a confession), which is direct evidence, all other evidence, even fingerprints and DNA, is circumstantial evidence."
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  #344  
Old 08-03-2011, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Givsmetheshivers View Post
Colonel Mustard, how do the online Bar reviews work? Could McD claim that he was going into Lauren's apartment studying her on line tutorials and she caught him?

No, no, no, these were not dorm rooms. These were actual residences. That would be no more acceptable than you going into your neighbor's house without our neighbor's knowledge or permission to use their computer. Lauren and McD did not have that kind of relationship.
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  #345  
Old 08-03-2011, 07:55 AM
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One of the items they sent to the lab was a rape kit, SOP in cases like this. I wondered if they found his DNA on one of the swabs, but then discarded that idea. LE would have filed charges more quickly if that were the case?
If there was his DNA on one of the swabs from the rape kit, they would need to make a determination whether the rape was before or after her death. The difference would have a tremendous effect on the outcome of the case (or cases) against him.
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  #346  
Old 08-03-2011, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~SuperSleuth~ View Post
Someone at macon.com had an issue with this, and I asked why.
He said that arrest warrants must be served by an officer who is legally authorized to deliver them, such as a deputy sheriff.
He said Mr. Winters could be present, but he couldn't be the one to actually hand the warrant to McDaniel.

Could one of our lawyers chime in on this?
I saw that too, and while I am not a lawyer, I believe Winters is an "Officer of the court" and allowed to serve the warrant. I think he is really looking at this case as a big deal for him , and it is. I hope we find out a lot at the 2 oclokc news conference, because from the appearance based on what little we do know, and how long it has taken fro FBI results to come back ( I think we are still waiting on them) I have reasonable doubt and it looks like they rushed to charge McD prior to the Aug 4th bond hearing. On the other hand, kind of like like OJ & Casey Anthony, If not McD, then who ?
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  #347  
Old 08-03-2011, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MissingLovedOnes View Post
(Bolded by me)
Tomkat, I have a feeling you are speaking about the jurors in the Anthony case, but every jury is criticized when the outcome is not what some expected. The case of LG would be no exception.

This is something the majority of the public seems to be confused on and if I could go on a nationwide tour to educate the masses, I surely would. Let me clear this up.

Jurors have written instructions to follow on each crime the defendant is accused of. (They can't just sit there like they do in the movies and criticize hair color, style of dress, basic shifty eyes, dislike that someone used the "f" word to their mother, then decide they don't like the person, and convict them. People...that is not how it works. Some need to turn off reality TV and get familiar with their own justice system.)

I'm going to put this in very elementary terms, simplified. (Some of you know this, some of you don't.)

People are upset with jurors in many cases. This wasn't the first, won't be the last, but jurors are NOT to blame. They have to follow the rules given to them, and in the Anthony case, that's what they did. (The State Bar of Florida wrote the rules, fyi.) The public apparently wanted the jurors to NOT follow the law or the rules they were given in deciding this case.

What rules, you ask? Well, here's an example:

CMA was accused of Murder in First Degree, Aggravated Child Abuse, Aggravated Manslaughter, and 4 counts of Providing False Information to a LE Officer.

The jury has a list of these crimes and has to decide what they feel the State has proven to help them answer the questions.

They use their list of questions to guide them.

To prove the crime of First Degree Premeditated Murder, the State must prove the following 3 elements beyond a reasonable doubt:
1. Caylee Marie Anthony is dead.
2. The death was caused by the criminal act of Casey Marie Anthony.
3. There was a premeditated killing of Caylee Marie Anthony.

The jurors did not know/could not be sure of how Caylee died, so they could not answer YES to #'s 2 or 3. FIRST DEGREE MURDER (premeditated) WAS NO LONGER AN OPTION.

To prove the crime of First Degree Felony Murder, the State must prove the following 3 elements beyond a reasonable doubt:
1. Caylee Marie Anthony is dead.
2. The death occurred as a consequence of and while Casey Marie Anthony was engaged in the commission of Aggravated Child Abuse
OR
The death occurred as a consequence of and while CMA was attempting to commit Aggravated Child Abuse.
3. Casey Marie Anthony was actually the person who killed Caylee Marie Anthony.
The jurors did not know/could not be sure of how Caylee died, so they could not answer YES to #'s 2 or 3. FIRST DEGREE MURDER (felony) WAS NO LONGER AN OPTION.

and so on....down the list of other crimes she was accused of.

The jury had no idea how Caylee died, so when they were going down the list of answering their questions, their hands were tied by simply NOT KNOWING how the child died. They could not speculate. They could not be willy nilly. They had to use the evidence provided to them and there was nothing that showed them beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused was guilty.

That is how the jurors arrived at their verdict. That one little tricky thing, called HOW DID SHE DIE, kept them from being able to convict on anything to do with murder because they obviously had no clue.

So, as it relates to this case, the ability to know how a person died will most likely be very necessary in the jury process of deciding who caused it, so the police better lock this one down tight before giving their case to the State to prosecute. If they cannot prove enough to rule out any other person in any other way, beyond any reasonable doubt, whomever is eventually accused would walk.


Not sure why we are quoting Florida law here and what the Anthony case has to do with this one but this is a bit misleading if you are attempting to apply it to the facts of this case. In Georgia, if you are committing a felony, say for example a bank robbery, and your partner in crime accidentally shoots and kills the bank teller or an innocent bystander, you too can be charged and convicted of felony murder. It is NOT a requirement that you actually be the shooter. Just being a party to the felony in which a death occurred is enough.
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  #348  
Old 08-03-2011, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingLovedOnes View Post
Tomkat, what's your source of info on LG's sister entering her apartment on Sunday, June 26th? Where did you read/see/hear that?

It's been my understanding that LG was last seen on Saturday, June 25th.

Landlord went in on Wednesday, June 29th.

A friend was asked to go over there (by LG's sister) on Wednesday.

Friend (LS) entered and noted that landlord had left a note on the door.

Mercer Police were called over around 10 pm on Wednesday night.

Kaitlyn Wheeler, sister of LG, from Maryland, called 911 and a Macon Police Officer Descoteaux was dispatched at approximately 12:52 am

Macon PD SGT Copeland contacted the on call missing persons detective, and Detective Bridger was assigned. Detective Bridger decided NOT TO RESPOND TO THE SCENE. Detective Bridger stated he would just complete a report and follow up later. (I'm still curious about which Mercer Police Officer ( actually a Macon Police Officer) was called to LG's apartment around 10 pm on Wednesday, June 29th, and why it took Kaitlyn Wheeler calling 911 to get more attention to Lauren's unknown whereabouts if that Mercer Police Officer is also Macon Police Officer?

And another thing that is confusing is that Detective Bridger is a Macon Police Officer,(missing persons) but he also works the evening shift at Mercer University and is listed on their website as a campus officer. Did HE go to Lauren's apartment at 10 pm and then was called again after midnight by SGT Copeland? Why did it take a 911 call to the Macon PD to get ANOTHER officer to go out and then when they notified the MERCER evening shift police officer/missing persons detective, he decided to NOT RESPOND? I wish somebody could officially verify what the heck went on with the police out there that night. Did Bridger or any Mercer/Macon Police Officer ever escort Lauren to her apartment from campus, as a courtesy? It says that an escort to/from campus is offered on their website, so I just wondered if she had a personal relationship/friendship with any Macon Police Officer who may have escorted her across the street to her apartment if she ever walked?)
I think there are some people within the Macon PD who are in a lot of trouble over the decisions that were made that night not to investigate further until morning. Just something I've heard from a very reliable source very close to the situation. This case may have moved a lot faster if they had searched that night. Evidence was apparently moved in the interim.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:19 AM
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I know this is early in the case to bring this up but is the death penalty an option for a felony murder conviction? Does anyone in Macon know if SM's attorney, Buford, is death qualified if it is an option for this crime. Also, does anyone think he would get involved in SM's defense on the murder charge?
I believe he is, but I don't think he would be handling this case by himself if he does it at all. He will probably have a team of lawyers from the capital defender's office assist or take over the case entirely. Sadly, this is the office Lauren was hoping to get a job offer from upon graduating from law school.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:23 AM
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I believe he is, but I don't think he would be handling this case by himself if he does it at all. He will probably have a team of lawyers from the capital defender's office assist or take over the case entirely. Sadly, this is the office Lauren was hoping to get a job offer from upon graduating from law school.
Having said that before my second cup of coffee this morning, it now occurs to me that depending on where Lauren was with her application/interview process with the capital defender's office, THEY may have to recuse themselves from representing McD if there is a substantial enough connection to create a conflict of interest. Even so, there are plenty of capital offense qualified attorneys out there who could be appointed by the court to represent him.
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