NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #8

[McSpy]

Originally Posted by minazoe

let me just explain...

What if the guy who says he encountered her, actually didn't?

What if something happened to Maura before the car was left there...

we just have this one person who claims to have seen her after the accident right?

Witnesses looking out their windows saw him talking to her. IMO, it was her that he spoke to . .

[pittsburghgirl]

Originally Posted by McSpy

I have to agree with Renner. It looks like an ongoing criminal case. Yet, I think they could possibly be not absolutely sure, but do want to keep everything under wraps just in case the info they do have is actually evidence of a crime. They could have their eye on a potential suspect.

I wasn't impressed by the tone of the letter; given that Maura has been missing so long and a decent PR effort might be helpful, there is no reason for LE to simply refuse to meet with the media. mThemofficer can always decline to answer certain questions. I hope you guys are right and this reply isn't just part of an effort to make the story go away.

[scoops]

Originally Posted by OldSteve

Thanks for the update! Interesting! You know the way a lawyer will tell his client not say anything to LE, seems like LE is doing that back to those who ask it questions....

I fee this is what happened when JR asked his questions about the search warrant (see a few posts above) - it isn't really that case is that open, it just that LE is doing their version of being lawyer'ed up...

Well specifically concerning the news media like the Caldonian Record. They are just being lazy by not following up on this information, even if it is just to come back with testing is still underway. They should be able to convey to readers why it is taking so long to get answers and what kind of priority this particular finding (partial human skull) takes up at the lab.

As far as Strezlin goes, I should've never mentioned Maura Murray to him. Like many other missing people in his area, he appears to have a problem in getting results. I shouldv'e just mentioned interest in the human skull finding and left it at that and not tried to mention a link to Maura to him (obviously a sore subject with him).

[McSpy]

Originally Posted by pittsburghgirl

I wasn't impressed by the tone of the letter; given that Maura has been missing so long and a decent PR effort might be helpful, there is no reason for LE to simply refuse to meet with the media. mThemofficer can always decline to answer certain questions. I hope you guys are right and this reply isn't just part of an effort to make the story go away.

I know what you mean. It is very difficult to just keep the faith that they are doing anything without any feedback from them. I'm not surprised they didn't answer Renner, because of Fred Murray's experience. At least, they are handling Maura's disappearance as a criminal case and not just saying she ran away.

[McSpy]

Some explanations on the Maura sightings:

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011...l#comment-form

[OldSteve]

Well the last paragraph on JR's certainly has peaked my interest :

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

[cocomod]

Originally Posted by OldSteve

Well the last paragraph on JR's certainly has peaked my interest :

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

W.O.W. Interesing to say the least. Anytime I hear about family members that do not want to be interviewed by police when a loved one goes missing, it always peaks my interest as well. Makes one go hmmmm.

[McSpy]

Originally Posted by OldSteve

Well the last paragraph on JR's certainly has peaked my interest :

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

I don't think Fred has anything to do with her disappearance except for the words that may have happened after she crashed his car. Maybe I'm naive, but I think she ran up to NH, because she was upset over the crashing of her Dad's car and upsetting him. Maybe the car crash and the aftermath opened up old wounds between father and daughter. This is all speculation of course.

[OldSteve]

Originally Posted by OldSteve

Well the last paragraph on JR's certainly has peaked my interest :

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

Big oops! The "last paragraph" I was referring to is NOT the present one on JR's blog!

It was instead this one from a previous blog post,
"Lots to talk about in the coming days. I'm still not sure what Maura's ultimate fate was, but I believe I have a much clearer idea of why she drove to New Hampshire in the first place. And I think I understand the rag in the tailpipe."

[OldSteve]

Originally Posted by cocomod

W.O.W. Interesing to say the least. Anytime I hear about family members that do not want to be interviewed by police when a loved one goes missing, it always peaks my interest as well. Makes one go hmmmm.

I think FM's experience with LE was not a good one and he felt they weren't on his side..
After seeing many crime shows in which "tunnel-vision" was involved, I understand FM's position.

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

I personally believe that Maura was abducted or voluntarily (but should not have) entered a vehicle where the dog or dogs lost her scent. Considering the time of year and the relative remoteness, I believe that the perpetrator was local or at least raised locally. I do not consider anyone officially named as a witness in this case to be a suspect regarding the ACTUAL criminal act, and trust me, I look very carefully at each person. The named witnesses are just tired of being hounded by the press and innumerable amateur sleuths and psychics that probably keep calling them at all hours.

Maura is a physically-fit woman and no punk kid or old timer would be able to push her around. I guess if I was asked who to look for, I would suggest a male in their early twenties to mid-thirties, raised in the local area but not necessarily a permanent resident at the time of the crime, and with a previous criminal record that is suggestive of harming a woman.

Bye the bye, I have posted a possible scenario in the Jamison family case tonight also, for those who are following that.

The McStay family case still remains a "three-pipe" problem for me (with apologies to Sherlock Holmes and his bad smoking habits). I am reviewing maps at the moment and smoking my curved pipe in the den. Watson is asleep as usual.

[OldSteve]

I see JR has visited FM abandoned house
Nov 4th blog:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

Sad scene to be sure. I won't draw any conclusions about the place since we don't know what it was like when MM was living there. What we see now bespeaks, if anything, of someone heartbroken IMO. Again, so sad...

[McSpy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Noatak

My opinions only, no facts here:

I personally believe that Maura was abducted or voluntarily (but should not have) entered a vehicle where the dog or dogs lost her scent. Considering the time of year and the relative remoteness, I believe that the perpetrator was local or at least raised locally. I do not consider anyone officially named as a witness in this case to be a suspect regarding the ACTUAL criminal act, and trust me, I look very carefully at each person. The named witnesses are just tired of being hounded by the press and innumerable amateur sleuths and psychics that probably keep calling them at all hours.

Maura is a physically-fit woman and no punk kid or old timer would be able to push her around. I guess if I was asked who to look for, I would suggest a male in their early twenties to mid-thirties, raised in the local area but not
necessarily a permanent resident at the time of the crime, and with a previous criminal record that is suggestive of harming a woman.

Bye the bye, I have posted a possible scenario in the Jamison family case tonight also, for those who are following that.

The McStay family case still remains a "three-pipe" problem for me (with apologies to Sherlock Holmes and his bad smoking habits). I am reviewing maps at the moment and smoking my curved pipe in the den. Watson is asleep as usual.

I agree 100% on this theory (age of perp, local person, etc.). I still think it is possible that she had an accident or succumbed to the elements, but if she was abducted, your theory makes a lot of sense.

[Jane Birch]

Originally Posted by OldSteve

I see JR has visited FM abandoned house
Nov 4th blog:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

Sad scene to be sure. I won't draw any conclusions about the place since we don't know what it was like when MM was living there. What we see now bespeaks, if anything, of someone heartbroken IMO. Again, so sad...

As others have pointed out, we don't know who may have occupied the premises since Mr. Murray left it, or how long ago that was. IMO it has absolutely no bearing on anything.

[telemag]

I know everyone has their theories. Actually this is more of a thought than a theory. What if Maura is alive? What if Fred had found out sometime later? Maybe a year or more and Maura does not want to "come out"? Fred may feel the need to keep up the fight so to speak as to not make it look suspicious because he all of the sudden stopped looking or caring. Fred did feel as though Maura ran away in the beginning did he not and after some time he is now totally against any type of publicity and supposedly contacting her friends in hopes of having them not cooperate with Mr Renner. Now, Fred could feel that Mr Renners intentions are not honerable, but if I were him and this is just me I would have sat down with him made friends and "used" him to help find out what the heck happened to my daughter! I have no idea as to what happened to Maura, but I DO NOT believe that she got into a car willingly. I find it somewhat hard to believe that anyone would out run her to force her in a car.

I know a lot of people on here think that what ever Maura actions were before she disappeared have nothing to do with what happened to her, but I disagree that we should just ignore her actions up to the point of when she went missing. The rag in the tail pipe still bugs the heck out of me. In my opinion some one went to the trouble to stuff a rag up inside her tail pipe. This would would most likely stall a car that was running on 3 cylinders. I find it VERY hard to believe that Maura drove all that way with a rag stuffed in her tailpipe. Maybe Marua's accident had to do with her car stalling out going round a turn than from her drinking. Remember people that this was not just a girl who had a fender bender and disappeared. This was a girl who had many many serious life issues leading up to that accident. Two car wrecks within days, possibly pregnant, a cheating boyfriend I'm sure I am missing some things and there are probabley a few more that none of us know about. I really feel terrible for this girl. Personally I hope she is alive and well. Maybe she has had a child or two and doesn't ever want to have the media all over her life if one did find out she was alive. Maybe Mr Renner should look into whether Fred has done any traveling to Canada or anywhere else lately in the very small chance that if Maura is still alive and Fred goes and visits her on occasion. OK sorry for the long "thought" that I just had. lol

[pittsburghgirl]

Thirty years ago, a woman who was an experienced distance runner and an Olympic calibre fencer was abducted and murdered while carrying groceries home in a nice neighborhood of Pittsburgh. Female joggers have been abducted and murdered in daylight, steps from their own homes, and while talking to their significant other on the phone. Maura had just had an accident that deployed her airbag and cracked the windshield ofher car. She had been driving. It was cold and dark and she was not familiar with the area. She may have been drinking. Any of these factors would make her more vulnerable to a male who might have seen an opportunity to abduct a woman. In the best of scenarios, woman are at a disadvantage if attacked by a larger male. And of course, if she was abducted, more than one person might have been involved.

[McSpy]

Originally Posted by telemag

I know everyone has their theories. Actually this is more of a thought than a theory. What if Maura is alive? What if Fred had found out sometime later? Maybe a year or more and Maura does not want to "come out"? Fred may feel the need to keep up the fight so to speak as to not make it look suspicious because he all of the sudden stopped looking or caring. Fred did feel as though Maura ran away in the beginning did he not and after some time he is now totally against any type of publicity and supposedly contacting her friends in hopes of having them not cooperate with Mr Renner. Now, Fred could feel that Mr Renners intentions are not honerable, but if I were him and this is just me I would have sat down with him made friends and "used" him to help find out what the heck happened to my daughter! I have no idea as to what happened to Maura, but I DO NOT believe that she got into a car willingly. I find it somewhat hard to believe that anyone would out run her to force her in a car.

I know a lot of people on here think that what ever Maura actions were before she disappeared have nothing to do with what happened to her, but I disagree that we should just ignore her actions up to the point of when she went missing. The rag in the tail pipe still bugs the heck out of me. In my opinion some one went to the trouble to stuff a rag up inside her tail pipe. This would would most likely stall a car that was running on 3 cylinders. I find it VERY
hard to believe that Maura drove all that way with a rag stuffed in her tailpipe. Maybe Marua's accident had to do with her car stalling out going round a turn than from her drinking. Remember people that this was not just a girl who had a fender bender and disappeared. This was a girl who had many many serious life issues leading up to that accident. Two car wrecks within days, possibly pregnant, a cheating boyfriend I'm sure I am missing some things and there are probabley a few more that none of us know about. I really feel terrible for this girl. Personally I hope she is alive and well. Maybe she has had a child or
two and doesn't ever want to have the media all over her life if one did find out she was alive. Maybe Mr Renner should look into whether Fred has done any traveling to Canada or anywhere else lately in the very small chance that if Maura is still alive and Fred goes and visits her on occasion. OK sorry for the long "thought" that I just had. lol

Who didn't have some kind of drama going in their lives at age 21? IMO, we shouldn't forget that she did have enough of her act together to be on her university's honor roll. I really don't know what to think about her possible issues prior to her cracking up her dad's car. Sometimes, I think her actions before her disappearance may have been exaggerated, because we are seeking a reason for her disappearance and her trip to NH. Maybe it just comes down to her having been hormonal, upset with herself, and mad at the world for a few days. I do think it was possible she was abducted, but my theory is that she accepted a ride. I think she knew it was risky--she wasn't dumb, but I theorize that she took the risk to get away from the scene. However, I think it is also possible she had an accident while running or sucumbed to the elements. I would be very surprised if she was just hiding out somewhere. Anything is possible, but I have a hard time believing that she wouldn't contact someone, especially her mother. Her mother passed away from cancer a couple of years ago.

[CanManEh]

Originally Posted by goodgirl65

I kinda dismiss this possibility because i would think that if she was hit by a car some evidence oF that would have been found by now...I think its doubtful that if she did get hit that the driver would have taken her body away, unless of course she was still alive and the driver put her in the car, ostensibly to take her to hospital, but then she died on the way. The driver panicked, perhaps dumped her body; I would think more likely the driver would have either called 911 or just taken off from the scene.

JMO

Your Quoting just about every word i said about this very thing. Her being hit by a car and then a few different theories about what happend right after that..I Said the same thing way back in the beginning Threads.

[dogperson]

As to the rag in the tailpipe, maybe Maura made a stop somewhere not long before she got to the area where she had the accident, such as she maybe stopped at a convenience store for a snack, to use the restroom, etc. And maybe somebody there had his eye on her. He could have stuffed the rag in the tailpipe while she was inside, knowing the car would stall out a little ways up the road. Then all he had to do was come driving along later and "rescue" her. She didn't want the police on the scene, probably because she was at least somewhat under the influence, so if this guy was a normal-looking dude, non-threatening in appearance, who offered to take her somewhere up the road where she could get cell phone reception, she might have climbed in the car with him. (After all, one of the reasons Ted Bundy was so successful is because he was young, preppy, and good-looking.) He may have even known she'd been drinking because he could have cased out the car when he put the rag in. That way he would have known she'd be more likely to accept a ride and therefore avoid the police and a possible DUI. The main problem I see with this scenario is that her dad claimed the rag came from her own trunk. I do not understand her dad's explanation for the rag at all. I can't think why anyone would believe stuffing a rag up the tailpipe would help with any kind of automotive problems.

[telemag]

Originally Posted by dogperson

As to the rag in the tailpipe, maybe Maura made a stop somewhere not long before she got to the area where she had the accident, such as she maybe stopped at a convenience store for a snack, to use the restroom, etc. And maybe somebody there had his eye on her. He could have stuffed the rag in the tailpipe while she was inside, knowing the car would stall out a little ways up the road. Then all he had to do was come driving along later and "rescue" her. She didn't want the police on the scene, probably because she was at least somewhat under the influence, so if this guy was a normal-looking dude, non-threatening in appearance, who offered to take her somewhere up the road where she could get cell phone reception, she might have climbed in the car with him. (After all, one of the reasons Ted Bundy was so successful is because he was young, preppy, and good-looking.) He may have even known she'd been drinking because he could have cased out the car when he put the rag in. That way he would have known she'd be more likely to accept a ride and therefore avoid the police and a possible DUI. The main problem I see with this scenario is that her dad claimed the rag came from her own trunk. I do not understand her dad's explanation for the rag at all. I can't think why anyone would believe stuffing a rag up the tailpipe would help with any kind of automotive problems.

I totally agree that this is a very possible scenario. You would have to be a complete moron to stuff a rag up inside the tail pipe of a car running on 3 cylinders, sorry but come on.

[McSpy]

I wonder if that rag was in her tailpipe days before she got into these car accidents. She could have had an exhaust leak, which maybe the reason her car didn't stall on her way up to NH. If someone stuffed it in her exhaust pipe at a gas station or at any of her other stops, the car should have stalled right away after she shifted into drive--not on the curve in NH (she wouldn't have got that far). I'm thinking that it maybe the actual reason her car was not running right in the first place and the reason she wanted a new one. I could be way off base, but the thought occurred to me. Someone could have put the rag in her tailpipe WEEKS before her ride up to NH. The rag would have definitely affected her car's performance. Perhaps, the "running on only 3 cylinders" was just a someone's guess and it was not from a thorough diagnosis of the car's problems.

[OldSteve]

Snipped:

Originally Posted by telemag

I know everyone has their theories. Actually this is more of a thought than a theory. What if Maura is alive? What if Fred had found out sometime later? .......
Maybe Mr Renner should look into whether Fred has done any traveling to Canada or anywhere else lately in the very small chance that if Maura is still alive and Fred goes and visits her on occasion. OK sorry for the long "thought" that I just had. lol

Your mind plays tricks on you when you run away - at least that's my experience. (Sorry to personalize here.)
As a young man I took off with another on a cross-country get away from family.
Funny, after a time you start to miss everyone - you just can't get them out of your mind... Maybe it was just me, but cannot see Maura being on the run for years... too much family left behind...

[OldSteve]

Originally Posted by McSpy

I wonder if that rag was in her tailpipe days before she got into these car accidents. She could have had an exhaust leak, which maybe the reason her car didn't stall on her way up to NH. If someone stuffed it in her exhaust pipe at a gas station or at any of her other stops, the car should have stalled right away after she shifted into drive--not on the curve in NH (she wouldn't have got that far). I'm thinking that it maybe the actual reason her car was not running right in the first place and the reason she wanted a new one. I could be way off base, but the thought occurred to me. Someone could have put the rag in her tailpipe WEEKS before her ride up to NH. The rag would have definitely affected her car's performance. Perhaps, the "running on only 3 cylinders" was just a someone's guess and it was not from a thorough diagnosis of the car's problems.

So many good posts to respond to -

Good point about how long the rag had been in the tail pipe... too late now to analyze, maybe not.... would have to check how much exhaust soot had build up on it... In fact if the rag were really clean would show it placed in pipe after car had be turned off...
The rag - was it simply placed my MM as a warning after car crashed? Was it visible if that's the case?
Using the rag to disable the car after it had stopped at the gas station by some seedy character... problems with that. Perp would have to have found it in the kit Fred had packed for her... Also, why do that, not knowing how far or where her car would stop. Simply following her car to remote spot and bumping into it or cutting off seems more likely. No signs of that.

[OldSteve]

Originally Posted by pittsburghgirl

Thirty years ago, a woman who was an experienced distance runner and an Olympic calibre fencer was abducted and murdered while carrying groceries home in a nice neighborhood of Pittsburgh. Female joggers have been abducted and murdered in daylight, steps from their own homes, and while talking to their significant other on the phone. Maura had just had an accident that deployed her airbag and cracked the windshield ofher car. She had been driving. It was cold and dark and she was not familiar with the area. She may have been drinking. Any of these factors would make her more vulnerable to a male who might have seen an opportunity to abduct a woman. In the best of scenarios, woman are at a disadvantage if attacked by a larger male. And of course, if she was abducted, more than one person might have been involved.

OT, but having read Pittsburgh is a good place to retire to, I'm always interested in things like this.... Also, as strong and fit as my spouse was back in the day when we ran at night, she was always says lets not jog here or there it was too isolated... thinking back, she was right!

[minazoe]

I thought a rag in a tail pipe meant a suicide attempt...