TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #9

[KathyJ]

Originally Posted by believe09

Thank you, Kathy. My post was in reference to the kids reading about their parents on the www, but I did not make that very clear.

Yep, I actually understood that and probably did not make it clear in my post. Anyone can access the information that is out there. MSM has reported on things that I am sure are heartbreaking for the kids and other family members.
For me, it's the social media that gives the freedom of speech for people to just bash and name call others based on their own personal feelings. Perhaps revealing some things in life the kids may have not known.

Again, not defending MP but what if, just what if he truly is not involved in this disappearance. Every aspect has to be looked at and if for some reason this mystery gets solved and he was not involved all this info is out there and that is a hard thing to come back from. JMO of course. Just trying to step outside the situation and look at it from every angle. Something that comes to mind for me is the Riley Fox case, her father went to jail for 8 months for the murder of his own daughter.....which turned out to be not the case.

[Oriah]

Originally Posted by ThoughtFox

In a perfect world, kids would never have to be disillusioned about their parents or read anything that might hurt them.

But that goes for their mother as well, and most of the negative comments about her have come from their father and his attorneys.

So while it might seem that we should try to protect the kids by not talking on the internet, there is still the local news, the newspaper, and whatever they hear in their own home or at school.

And sadly, they know their mother has been missing for months. I honestly doubt that anything they read will hurt them more than that fact. If we could change that reality right now, all of us would try.

BBM:
Unfortunately, I agree ThoughtFox.

However (and this is jmvho...) it does seem like the world would be a better place for all children if adults on the internet- and everywhere else, for that matter- carefully watched what they say when facts of a case are unknown. Harm reduction at its best.

I don't know that everyone who posts something on the internet or in media is aware that they are essentially publishing their own writing; and it begs to be clarified whether or not the writer is posting a historical novel... or fiction.

I think that's where my frustration comes into play.

I am very frustrated by those claiming historical novels, without historical reference. Kwim?

Let's help make the world perfect!

[Emeralgem]

Originally Posted by KathyJ

I agree as well, but MSM and social outlets to me are two different things. MSM is not bashing the father and calling him names. It's just my opinion as well but I just see more name calling and anger on other sites than people putting their heads together to come up with some theories. I am not saying all of them, I see a few people really doing a hard job at trying to find her others just seem interested in tearing the family down as well as other posters on there. And do you honestly believe MP gives a hoot about what certain people think about him? I am going with a NO on that one, but he is not bashing anyone in public.

My theory at this time is Gail has not disappeared of her own volition. Unfortunately, I suspect she is deceased and I suspect foul play is the reason..

I also suspect MFH (MP initiating the contract) and that the incident was supposed to look like a suicide or an accident but something went terribly wrong and there was no way to pull that off as being the cause.. reason being, Gail and the jeep have not been seen or heard of since April 30, 2011.

IMO.. MP's actions as well as his non action involving his wife's disappearance is what has lead me to believe he is the one responsible for whatever has happened to his wife and the mother of his two children..

IMO..Again, he is the one who has proven he is a thief, a liar and a cheater.. IF people suspect him of being involved in what happened to Gail, he has no one else to blame but himself...In reference to myself I would love for my suspicions of him and his involvement in her disappearance to be proven wrong.. And granted he owes us nothing, but he does owe it to his children to clear his name and remove any doubts they may have as to what really happened to their mother..I cannot imagine the HELL these two children are living right now and will continue to live until they know the truth......JMHO

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by Oriah

BBM:
Unfortunately, I agree ThoughtFox.

However (and this is jmvho...) it does seem like the world would be a better place for all children if adults on the internet- and everywhere else, for that matter- carefully watched what they say when facts of a case are unknown. Harm reduction at its best.

I don't know that everyone who posts something on the internet or in media is aware that they are essentially publishing their own writing; and it begs to be clarified whether or not the writer is posting a historical novel... or fiction.

I think that's where my frustration comes into play.

I am very frustrated by those claiming historical novels, without historical reference. Kwim?

Let's help make the world perfect!

You can't even count on MSM any more, even quotes from LE in articles. It's all publish quickly, get/keep the ratings up.

I've come to think of all the info in cases as simply 'probably hopefully more likely to be true' and 'probably unlikely to be true'. I think reliable facts in these are a thing of the past - even when we get to trial with all the spin, spin, spin.

I don't know what the answer is. Do the best we can, keeping the missing persons' and victims' best interests at heart and in focus, I suppose. And hold ourselves responsible for what we post on the net.

[Oriah]

Agreed BeanE (again, unfortunately.)

So.... would anyone mind going back to the Mountain Creek Rd grid b/t Glendale and Russell?

I just need to clarify that area.
Also would like clarification on the James Place grid and properties N and S of there.

TIA.

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by Oriah

Agreed BeanE (again, unfortunately.)

So.... would anyone mind going back to the Mountain Creek Rd grid b/t Glendale and Russell?

I just need to clarify that area.
Also would like clarification on the James Place grid and properties N and S of there.

TIA.

Oriah, have you seen this mapping program? You put the location in the lower right corner, then you can use the buttons in the upper right corner, as well as the Options and Links in the lower right corner, that give you more map views, to see the area in different ways.

http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=35.12257,...ain%5C%2C%20tn

[believe09]

Originally Posted by Shelby1

Quote from article:

Attornies for Palmgren’s husband Matt says HE has done everything he could do to help find the woman.

Unfortunately, it appears that this was not done in the most crucial hours of the investigation so I suppose it still seems fair to comment on the lack of effort early on.

[Emeralgem]

Just wondering WHY some feel it is so harmful to the children, IF we are suspicious of MP and voice our concerns about him being involved but there doesn't seem to be a problem when posting about Gail possibly being mentally unstable or even insinuating she just may have up and left, totally abandoning her children...JMHO

[KathyJ]

Originally Posted by Emeralgem

Just wondering WHY some feel it is so harmful to the children, IF we are suspicious of MP and voice our concerns about him being involved but there doesn't seem to be a problem when posting about Gail possibly being mentally unstable or even insinuating she just may have up and left, totally abandoning her children...JMHO

I agree with you 100%. My point is the "bashing" and name calling that other sites allow. I am not speaking of the speculation that MP is involved and the talk of Gail having issues. That is all in MSM and that's all going to come out anyways. My point was the direct bashing of someone and others that are trying to help in this case by banding together on sites.

I was also trying to compliment WS for the fact that they allow us to speculate on MSM information as well as our own thoughts as long as they are within guidelines and with respect.

My bottom line is your not going to get anywhere by bashing someone or attacking them, if anything your going to make them remove themselves even further from this situation and not want to come forward or say anything.

[believe09]

Originally Posted by Emeralgem

Just wondering WHY some feel it is so harmful to the children, IF we are suspicious of MP and voice our concerns about him being involved but there doesn't seem to be a problem when posting about Gail possibly being mentally unstable or even insinuating she just may have up and left, totally abandoning her children...JMHO

I cant speak for others, but I included speculation about Gail in my post, so I feel it is equally harmful for the children to read that she was on XYZ meds, may have been depressed/paranoid/crazy/suicidal, was murdered by their father or that she may have simply walked away from them.

[KathyJ]

Originally Posted by believe09

I cant speak for others, but I included speculation about Gail in my post, so I feel it is equally harmful for the children to read that she was on XYZ meds, may have been depressed/paranoid/crazy/suicidal, was murdered by their father or that she may have simply walked away from them.

Everyone in life seems to have some sort of issues. It's just fact. I myself have gone on anti depressants years ago for some pretty major issues I was having in life. So was a considered "crazy" out of my mind? Had a mental issue?
Well, technically depression is a mental issue, but get it out there for the world to talk about and they can come up with all sorts of stories of how someone was unstable.
I still stick with a post I made a LONG time ago, GP did not seem unstable to me AT ALL, with the research she was doing to protect herself and possibly get out of her marriage (IMO) this shows someone thinking in their right mind.

I really just wish someone would throw us a bone, a small one to go on. Again all this time has gone by and we have NO new information which is so troubling. Where in the hell is that jeep!!!!!! And where is Gail?????

[Shelby1]

Everyday my thoughts turn to Gail, even though I've never met her.


I read up-thread that school has started in Signal Mtn. Do you think Gail would ever, of her own free will, miss her children's first day?

I don't.

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by Emeralgem

Just wondering WHY some feel it is so harmful to the children, IF we are suspicious of MP and voice our concerns about him being involved but there doesn't seem to be a problem when posting about Gail possibly being mentally unstable or even insinuating she just may have up and left, totally abandoning her children...JMHO

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally, I have no problem with analysis and thinking through scenarios in trying to figure out what happened to a missing person. That includes thinking through scenarios of Matt possibly having harmed Gail, or had her harmed, whether or not Gail may had mental or emotional issues, etc, and siimilar - or other - issues in any case. And yes, even recognizing that that analysis and thinking through scenarios is likely painful to the missing person's loved ones.

What I have a problem with is the trashing, bashing, insulting, exaggeration, sensationalizing, rumors, gossip, etc.

The difference between the two, to me, is that the former seeks to be helpful, positive, and constructive, by trying to figure out what happened, and hopefully, come up with leads and tips that can be sent to LE.

The latter, in my opinion, does not hold any positive, constructive, or helpful value that I've ever been able to see.

There's a big difference too, in the way things are said. For example, certainly, saying "she just up and left and abandoned her children!" would certainly not be positive or constructive, and would certainly be more likely to cause pain to loved ones.

My opinion.

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by believe09

I cant speak for others, but I included speculation about Gail in my post, so I feel it is equally harmful for the children to read that she was on XYZ meds, may have been depressed/paranoid/crazy/suicidal, was murdered by their father or that she may have simply walked away from them.

I strongly disagree that saying those things are equally harmful. Saying someone's mom may have been depressed, for example, would not have near the negative impact on a child as saying their mom was crazy, IMO.

But... maybe it is all as bad. Personally, I take responsibility for what I say on the net, and its impact. I think a lot about what I say, and how I say it. There's much that I choose in these cases to say only privately, or to simply keep to myself.

My opinion, and I can only speak for myself.

[Oriah]

Having been (unfortunately) in a position of having to discuss missing persons and what may have happened to them to a variety of different people who love and miss them- I've found that tact never harms- only helps.

I guess that might be a SAR thing- but I feel like it should hold true for internet postings as well... if not even more so.

For example- I do not know the Palmgrens. I may have a lot of background research on them, and I may have it from many different sources. However- regardless of what that information leads me to believe- sensitivity is an important component in searching for missing persons.

It is not only kind- but it is useful.

Information regarding missing persons sometimes comes from surprising sources. Ya'll know what I mean? It's never productive to close doors in an active investigation, imvho.

[KathyJ]

Originally Posted by Oriah

Having been (unfortunately) in a position of having to discuss missing persons and what may have happened to them to a variety of different people who love and miss them- I've found that tact never harms- only helps.

I guess that might be a SAR thing- but I feel like it should hold true for internet postings as well... if not even more so.

For example- I do not know the Palmgrens. I may have a lot of background research on them, and I may have it from many different sources. However- regardless of what that information leads me to believe- sensitivity is an important component in searching for missing persons.

It is not only kind- but it is useful.

Information regarding missing persons sometimes comes from surprising sources. Ya'll know what I mean? It's never productive to close doors in an active investigation, imvho.

Exactly..."tact" is key in any situation.

[Emeralgem]

Praying for Gail, her children, her siblings and her friends who love and are missing her....Also praying for the truth to be revealed as to what has really happened to her..
Please God hear my prayer.

[Kiln Wood]

Originally Posted by Oriah

Agreed BeanE (again, unfortunately.)

So.... would anyone mind going back to the Mountain Creek Rd grid b/t Glendale and Russell?

I just need to clarify that area.
Also would like clarification on the James Place grid and properties N and S of there.

TIA.

You're back, Oriah! Are you able and willing to share with us any of the results of your other posts seeking information along the same lines as this post? You ask questions no one else on the GP threads asks, and you also have skills and abilities that are unique on the GP threads so I'm keenly interested in your perspective!

[Kiln Wood]

Originally Posted by Emeralgem

Just wondering WHY some feel it is so harmful to the children, IF we are suspicious of MP and voice our concerns about him being involved but there doesn't seem to be a problem when posting about Gail possibly being mentally unstable or even insinuating she just may have up and left, totally abandoning her children...JMHO

BBM

I'm going to go out on the limb here because I only know what I read on the GP threads and I'm childless by choice, but as I read your words, the idea formed in my mind that MP is currently with the children as their only parent in the household and perhaps some folks believe that he's got enough to deal with as the situation currently exists without his having to deal with negative concerns about his possible involvement with GP's disappearance (voluntary or otherwise) and her mental state at that time. Even though I'm advancing this idea should not be construed by anyone reading it to mean that I'm an adherent of my own idea because I'm not; I'm merely tossing it out into the mix for possible contemplation.....

[ThoughtFox]

Originally Posted by KathyJ

Exactly..."tact" is key in any situation.

This may not be PC or even nice, but here's my

People can't help it if they don't admire MP or cast his role in positive terms. He lied and cheated on his wife. He lost his job due to an affair with a co-worker, who was also lying to her husband about why she wanted a divorce.

He waited crucial hours before he reported his wife missing.

And since she has been gone, he hasn't said a single positive thing about her. Nothing.

All of that and more has been reported in the MSM too, so it isn't rumor or speculation or merely bad-mouthing.

Therefore, that is why some of us don't feel guilty about our opinions of him, and why some of us will continue to discuss his role in his wife's disappearance.

He hasn't been an honorable man, so I feel sorry for his children, not because of anything we post or even anything on FB, but because they live with a man like that.

I personally don't like him. I don't see anything to like. And I think his attorneys are doing enough damage control without any help from us.

[ThoughtFox]

Originally Posted by Kiln Wood

BBM

I'm going to go out on the limb here because I only know what I read on the GP threads and I'm childless by choice, but as I read your words, the idea formed in my mind that MP is currently with the children as their only parent in the household and perhaps some folks believe that he's got enough to deal with as the situation currently exists without his having to deal with negative concerns about his possible involvement with GP's disappearance (voluntary or otherwise) and her mental state at that time. Even though I'm advancing this idea should not be construed by anyone reading it to mean that I'm an adherent of my own idea because I'm not; I'm merely tossing it out into the mix for possible contemplation.....

Well, I agree he has alot to deal with from the SM police, the Hamilton County Police, the TBI, and the FBI.

Those searches must be taking a toll, but that's not our fault.

Compared to his other problems, I don't see Websleuths as ruining his relationship with his children.

[hollyblue]

Originally Posted by KathyJ

I agree as well, but MSM and social outlets to me are two different things. MSM is not bashing the father and calling him names. It's just my opinion as well but I just see more name calling and anger on other sites than people putting their heads together to come up with some theories. I am not saying all of them, I see a few people really doing a hard job at trying to find her others just seem interested in tearing the family down as well as other posters on there. And do you honestly believe MP gives a hoot about what certain people think about him? I am going with a NO on that one, but he is not bashing anyone in public.

BBM. No they are not; just the facts which are his own doing...they do report that an attorney "friend" of theirs in AL (who is now handling the BCBS fiasco for MP) stated that Gail was f----u. Per Matt's own attorney's words. Do you think Matt thought that was off color and inappropriate for his own attorney to put out there....for the children to read? I am going with a NO on that the one, because it was done to project a negative image on someone else (who is missing by the way) and not MP's image.

Matt's image was everything to him--first and foremost, imo. That was very apparent in the press conference. Damage control. However, that was blown to bits after it was announced he and TH had been having a an affair, frauded the company and were fired. Which Matt prolly already figured out was coming by the time of the presser. He hasn't spoken since---especially to LE to clear himself and put all this speculation to rest against him. Matt hasn't shown any angst to have the nerve to bash anyone, imo. JMO

[Oriah]

Perhaps a local could tell me whether or not SB hosted a party at her SM home on March 18th? And who was in attendance?
TIA.

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by Emeralgem

Praying for Gail, her children, her siblings and her friends who love and are missing her....Also praying for the truth to be revealed as to what has really happened to her..
Please God hear my prayer.

Amen and amen.

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by Kiln Wood

BBM

I'm going to go out on the limb here because I only know what I read on the GP threads and I'm childless by choice, but as I read your words, the idea formed in my mind that MP is currently with the children as their only parent in the household and perhaps some folks believe that he's got enough to deal with as the situation currently exists without his having to deal with negative concerns about his possible involvement with GP's disappearance (voluntary or otherwise) and her mental state at that time. Even though I'm advancing this idea should not be construed by anyone reading it to mean that I'm an adherent of my own idea because I'm not; I'm merely tossing it out into the mix for possible contemplation.....

I can't speak for anyone else, only for myself. It seems in our society that many people feel sorry and cut breaks for men who care for their children without a partener. I've known too many women who care for their children alone, and struggled hard, to ever have been able to work up any sympathy and cut the guys any kind of break. If women can do it - and they do - then men can do it - just fine. And I've yet to find a man taking care of his kids without a partner who didn't have more family and friends rallying around to 'help' than many - if not most - of the women I've known.

My concern is always for the missing person and any children involved. I don't have a whole lot of emotional energy left after that, but if there are people in the missing person's life who obviously love them and are worried, of course, I can not help but have compassion for them. I need to put my energy toward the missing person first, and any kids though.

In this case, it is obvious there was no love lost between Gail and Matt. I don't think he's suffering in terms of missing her. I think he may have some worry and concern about her, but I think it's minimal. I think they just had gotten to the point where they disliked each other and were too angry with each other for that.

But the kids - the poor kids. I have to assume they love their mom. I have to assume they love their dad. Their mom has disappeared, and that is undoubtedly hard on them. I don't want any of the trashing and bashing and insults and rumors and gossips and just plain made up stuff to get back to the kids. They shouldn't have to deal with that on top of having to deal with their mom being gone.

If Matt did anything, LE will find it out, they will announce it, and that's the time for the kids to have to deal with it. Hopefully without the trashing and bashing etc. If that comes to be, the plain old facts will be hard enough for them to deal with.

I just wish people would think of those kids before they go pounding on their keyboards. Go say it in private to a friend. Protect the kids from any more pain and stress and sadness and confusion than they're already having to cope with. It's the right thing to do. It's the good thing to do. It's the kind thing to do. And there's no *need* to do anything else right now.

My opinion.