CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #10

[Salem]

Please continue here.

Here is a link to the rules and tips on dealing with your fellow posters. Please take a moment to look the rules over. We have a lot of newbies here.

The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community" target="_blank">The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community">The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

ALSO - please remember, we do NOT sleuth minors, we do NOT post identifying information about minors, we do NOT name minors.

If a minor is a victim or has been publically named by LE as a perp, then their name may be used. In this particular case, the ONLY minor that may be identified by name is Max, because he was a victim. ALL other minors are OFF THE TABLE.

This is a strict rule and your cooperation is appreciated.

Thanks,

Salem

ETA: Further explanation on minor names. Even when quoting from MSM or other sources, if the minor is not the victim or the perp, we change the name to initials. We do NOT quote the name of the minor. This is to protect the minor. Please keep that in mind. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the parent of that minor. What would you think if your child's name was splattered all over the web.

Thanks Guys!

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Thread 9

Thread 9

Originally Posted by JBean

I am reminded of the Samantha Runnion case where she was snatched by Avila from the front yard while under her grandmother's care. It was mentioned many times that "if only" she had watched more carefully.....
It crosses everyone's mind-but in this case and in that case it seems as if reasonable care was taken and there is no issue with negligence. Bad things happen even under the tightest supervision.

So, let's not derail this topic with blame placing on Rebecca as it relates to the care of Max. Those that feel it is her fault-that's fine most of you have made your point and it is posted.
But we are not going to make it a talking point in this thread. Whatever really happened is a tragedy no matter how you slice it-so let's move on from blaming Rebecca it is just not constructive at this point. If that changes for some reason-the discussion may roll with that in the future.

[HowLoveCanBe]

I agree the hair between the noose and the skin is something worth really looking into. At the same time if you have given up all hope and actually put a noose on yourself with the idea that the very next thing you are going to do is jump 9 ft - maybe you aren't thinking about your hair. What percentage of females with long hair that hang themselves do or do not adjust their hair?

[SunnieRN]

Clipped from the dr. drew episode:
LISA BOESKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I live here in San Diego, and I`ve been following this case all along. And I will tell you, they truly do believe it is a suicide.

Now, I specialize in suicide. I`ve worked on hundreds of cases of serious suicide attempts and completed suicides. And I have more questions now than I did at the beginning of this case.

And I can tell you, suicide is usually a personal, private event. This was a very public act that happened. It appears aggressive, angry, vengeful, potentially humiliating.

We rarely see women nude. And the cryptic message, if you think about it, on the door, "She saved him. Can he save her?" If she had written that, wouldn`t it say, "Can he save me?"

You would think if she was guilty she would be writing things like, "Forgive me," or "I`m sorry," or "I deserve to be punished." So there are a lot of things about this.

And I think the key also is, when people have not made a suicide attempt, and they go to hang themselves, they almost always think of something to hang themselves from up above. So, a shower head, a pipe in a basement, something in a closet, a hook on the door. They wouldn`t think of the bed, jumping off the balcony, and as you said, these elaborate knots that are so complex and so complicated.

Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No.

[SunnieRN]

Also this:

Now, listen to this. Jonah Shacknai`s brother, Adam -- remember those knots? His brother Adam is a tugboat operator based in Tennessee.

Now, I don`t know this guy, but someone tied a clean hitch knot commonly used for dock tying and a slip knot with a red marine rope. One end of the cord was tied to the leg of a cast iron bed, anchoring it.

I mean, and you saw those videos of the elaborate nature of that rope work. It really looked like a block and tackle from a 16th century Schooner or something.

Don`t police need to be able to explain that?

HEGER: Yes. And what I want to know is, Adam Shacknai cut Rebecca down when he saw her the next morning. So his fingerprints and DNA would have to be on those ropes. Yet, law enforcement said on Friday the only DNA that was on those ropes was Rebecca. That`s impossible.

PINSKY: So the tugboat operator who says he cut her down, his DNA didn`t even show up on this. And law enforcement had no explanation for that?

HEGER: No. No explanation.

PINSKY: All right.

[Kentjbkent]

Originally Posted by SunnieRN

Clipped from the dr. drew episode:
LISA BOESKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I live here in San Diego, and I`ve been following this case all along. And I will tell you, they truly do believe it is a suicide.

Now, I specialize in suicide. I`ve worked on hundreds of cases of serious suicide attempts and completed suicides. And I have more questions now than I did at the beginning of this case.

And I can tell you, suicide is usually a personal, private event. This was a very public act that happened. It appears aggressive, angry, vengeful, potentially humiliating.

We rarely see women nude. And the cryptic message, if you think about it, on the door, "She saved him. Can he save her?" If she had written that, wouldn`t it say, "Can he save me?"

You would think if she was guilty she would be writing things like, "Forgive me," or "I`m sorry," or "I deserve to be punished." So there are a lot of things about this.

And I think the key also is, when people have not made a suicide attempt, and they go to hang themselves, they almost always think of something to hang themselves from up above. So, a shower head, a pipe in a basement, something in a closet, a hook on the door. They wouldn`t think of the bed, jumping off the balcony, and as you said, these elaborate knots that are so complex and so complicated.

Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No.

Just wanted to add link.....

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../ddhln.01.html

[Kentjbkent]

So in following this thread all evening, we have discussed guest bedrooms, ropes, nooses, tshirt, woman's clothing on floor, black paint, paint brushes, cryptic message, etc...

But I don't think anyone has mentioned the fact that autopsy report states there was tape residue on Rebecca's legs...but LE did not report this fact during press conference?

THoughts? How does this tape residue play into the various theories????

JEN HEGER, LEGAL EDITOR, RADAR ONLINE: I think the most stunning revelation is the fact that there was tape residue found on the back of Rebecca`s legs. And this was not discussed at all by the law enforcement at the press conference on Friday. There was also, as you said, strips of her T-shirt that were around her neck, might have been in her mouth at some point. This is very odd.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../ddhln.01.html

[Steely Dan]

This is from the autopsy report that was graciously downloaded in the other thread.



What is it about a few items of women's clothing and makeup wipes being in the guesthouse. Am I reading that right? Sorry if this has already been posted but this thread moves too fast and if you walk away for a few hours you're way behind.

[SunnieRN]

We have been discussing that, as well as the fact that LE did not state if they knew who the clothes belonged to.

[HowLoveCanBe]

Originally Posted by SunnieRN

Clipped from the dr. drew episode:
LISA BOESKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I live here in San Diego, and I`ve been following this case all along. And I will tell you, they truly do believe it is a suicide.

Now, I specialize in suicide. I`ve worked on hundreds of cases of serious suicide attempts and completed suicides. And I have more questions now than I did at the beginning of this case.

And I can tell you, suicide is usually a personal, private event. This was a very public act that happened. It appears aggressive, angry, vengeful, potentially humiliating.

We rarely see women nude. And the cryptic message, if you think about it, on the door, "She saved him. Can he save her?" If she had written that, wouldn`t it say, "Can he save me?"

You would think if she was guilty she would be writing things like, "Forgive me," or "I`m sorry," or "I deserve to be punished." So there are a lot of things about this.

And I think the key also is, when people have not made a suicide attempt, and they go to hang themselves, they almost always think of something to hang themselves from up above. So, a shower head, a pipe in a basement, something in a closet, a hook on the door. They wouldn`t think of the bed, jumping off the balcony, and as you said, these elaborate knots that are so complex and so complicated.

Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No.

To me it's no coincidence that:
1. She was barred from the ICU
2. Her dog was boarded up
3. Her clothes may have been in the 'guest house'
4. She did save Max from dying immediately after the fall
5. She believed she might go to hell for taking her life - and would want to be saved by Max / or was hoping Jonah would come home and save her
6. She was tied to the bed - in knots - and maybe not for the first time
7. She jumped from the 'guest room'
8. She was found hanging outside the house as if she had no where to go

Possible?

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

This is from the autopsy report that was graciously downloaded in the other thread.



What is it about a few items of women's clothing and makeup wipes being in the guesthouse. Am I reading that right? Sorry if this has already been posted but this thread moves too fast and if you walk away for a few hours you're way behind.

This how I read it too, and it had been discussed on the previous thread for quite some time. This question should be asked of LE.

[elementry]

Here's the response of the ME concerning some facts left out of their presentation last Friday:





Now I guess they're back to the bunker and wait for incoming......

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by jjenny

This how I read it too, and it had been discussed on the previous thread for quite some time. This question should be asked of LE.

Originally Posted by SunnieRN

We have been discussing that, as well as the fact that LE did not state if they knew who the clothes belonged to.

Thanks, I'll go back and look for the discussion.

[Kentjbkent]

Originally Posted by HowLoveCanBe

To me it's no coincidence that:
1. She was barred from the ICU
2. Her dog was boarded up
3. Her clothes may have been in the 'guest house'
4. She did save Max from dying immediately after the fall
5. She believed she might go to hell for taking her life - and would want to be saved by Max / or was hoping Jonah would come home and save her
6. She was tied to the bed - in knots - and maybe not for the first time
7. She jumped from the 'guest room'
8. She was found hanging outside the house as if she had no where to go

Possible?

JUst for my clarification...(not questioning you! )

1. Do we know for a fact that she was barred from ICU?

2. I thought she called INQUIRING about boarding, but never showed up with dog? (per interview with boarding ctr owner)

6. She was tied to the bed in knots? and not for the first time??

8. "...as if she had no where to go..."?

[SunnieRN]

So, knots. Remember when Rebecca first passed away, her sister stated what a wonderful and loyal friend she was? She talked about how she was learning to swim, to do a triathalon with a friend. She didn't know how to swim.

Don't think she would have knowledge of nautical ties.

[Kentjbkent]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Thanks, I'll go back and look for the discussion.

Time to use all your well-earned speed reading skills obtained during the Casey trial.....

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by Kentjbkent

JUst for my clarification...(not questioning you! )

1. Do we know for a fact that she was barred from ICU?

2. I thought she called INQUIRING about boarding, but never showed up with dog? (per interview with boarding ctr owner)

6. She was tied to the bed in knots? and not for the first time??

8. "...as if she had no where to go..."?

1. We are pretty sure she was not allowed into the hospital to see Max.
2. She boarded the dog
6. This is a complete speculation on the poster's part with no evidence to back it up
8. Again speculation on the poster's part

[SunnieRN]

Originally Posted by Kentjbkent

JUst for my clarification...(not questioning you! )

1. Do we know for a fact that she was barred from ICU?

2. I thought she called INQUIRING about boarding, but never showed up with dog? (per interview with boarding ctr owner)

6. She was tied to the bed in knots? and not for the first time??

8. "...as if she had no where to go..."?

I can address two. Her dog was picked up Tuesday morning and boarded at camp diggity dog, or some such.

The rest is hearsay, although a person who knows DS, (Chasing Halos), states that she refused to let Rebecca visit Max.

[Curious Me]

Just saying - if you're going to write down in the report that you found these clothes belonging to a woman in the guest house bedroom then why not say whose clothes they turned out to be? Afterall, RZ was found naked.

Towelettes would have skin cells and dna, I'm pretty sure.

[StJohn]

IMO, RN & her sister stayed in the guest house on Monday night, could be any number of reasons why, given the chaotic events of the day. Then, on Tuesday, Adam came into town, and her sister left town, so she felt she had to stay in the mansion. Going back to that big house alone, encountering the site of Max's accident, must have been nearly overwhelming. Then, JS tried to call while she was on the phone with her sister, call went to voice mail so JS left the msg about Max's condition.

[Kentjbkent]

Originally Posted by elementry

Here's the response of the ME concerning some facts left out of their presentation last Friday:


I'll replace with a smaller shot. Apologies.....


Now I guess they're back to the bunker and wait for incoming......

Wow.

WOW. WOW. WOW.

[chasing.halos]

Originally Posted by elementry

Here's the response of the ME concerning some facts left out of their presentation last Friday:




Now I guess they're back to the bunker and wait for incoming......

Completely and totally bizarre in how they are handling this case. Why is the autopsy so vague? The autopsy should be detailed enough so that subsequent "memos" shouldn't be necessary.

Surprised Jonah doesn't have an official response tacked on to this.

All just IMHO. Weird stuff. IMHO.

[SunnieRN]

I wonder if the make up removers or clothing was even taken into evidence? Even if it was, I am afraid they are gone now, as the case is 'closed'.

[SunnieRN]

Originally Posted by jjenny

Maybe LE never even bothered to ask? I certainly think LE should answer this question.

Ya think?? ;-)

[CalElliot]

It would be useful to have a body diagram of RZ abrasions, cuts, contusions akin of the one LE did of Max. Why one of Max but not RZ?

It would be useful to have an illustration of Max falling over balcony onto chandelier that was height proportional.

[jjenny]

Originally Posted by CalElliot

It would be useful to have a body diagram of RZ abrasions, cuts, contusions akin of the one LE did of Max. Why one of Max but not RZ?

It would be useful to have an illustration of Max falling over balcony onto chandelier that was height proportional.

And if ME thinks RN might have hit her head on something after jumping of the balcony (to explain the evidence of blunt force trauma on her head), where is the modeling of that? After all this was a 9 feet drop, I doubt she was bouncing up and down, so what would the modeling indicate? Apparently it was not done.