2011.09.15 EB Pleads Guilty to the Murder of Zahra

[JeannieC]

Originally Posted by Mountain_Kat

After the pile on of charges, she'll never see the light of day again. So I'm okay with it.

What makes me absolutely livid is that, yet again, Adam Baker escapes having to accept any responsibility for HIS actions.

Or Inactions...........speak no evil, see no evil, hear no evil

[Allusonz]

Originally Posted by Kamille

When I follow other cases and see the level of searching that LE is capable of doing (how many deserts and mines will they have to keep searching for Susan Powell?), especially when they had cell phone pings and tips, I have to wonder why they wasted so much time and manpower on EB's "story" and went through those areas where Adam worked and the yard. If they had really put a timeline together, they should have been able to pin down a time frame after the last independent siting of Zahra to follow EB's cell pings and search those areas with cadaver dogs. Maybe they would have found all of Zahra on their own. I think they really took the easy way out here and the sentence proves it.

Poor Zahra. Poor Emily. No justice for either of them.

During the hearing it was stated that AB was given a special type of polygraph regarding locations. I forget how the detective worded it but I was under the impression it was to try and get points to start trying to locate her. Thus the areas first searched which were different than where she was found. At least that is my perception of how that detective stated it. Maybe someone else that did listen could confirm for me...

[JeannieC]

Originally Posted by Allusonz

During the hearing it was stated that AB was given a special type of polygraph regarding locations. I forget how the detective worded it but I was under the impression it was to try and get points to start trying to locate her. Thus the areas first searched which were different than where she was found. At least that is my perception of how that detective stated it. Maybe someone that did listen could confirm for me...

Probably a Voice Lie Detection System or Voice Stress Detector.

[revampz]

hi everyone. I have not been reading this thread for ages, though it was on the cover of our Townsville Bulletin the other day that she pleaded guilty. At the beginning of this case I did post that I grew up in Giru and know lots of people that knew Zahra, her dad, the stepmonster, grandparents etc. One of my childhood friends is a teachers aide at the school and she told me that Zahra had told her how happy she was that her dad was marrying EB, as she was happy she would have a mother.

Anyhow, I was wondering if it ever came out what did happen to Zahra? why did she kill her and how? I have always beleived that it was an accidental death but due to EB abusing her ie hitting her head on something etc.

I also do not beleive that Adam did not know anything about it. I dont think he was involved in her death or the gruesome act that then took place, but I do think he knew she was dead and helped the wife try to cover it up.

[Flakes]

Originally Posted by revampz

hi everyone. I have not been reading this thread for ages, though it was on the cover of our Townsville Bulletin the other day that she pleaded guilty. At the beginning of this case I did post that I grew up in Giru and know lots of people that knew Zahra, her dad, the stepmonster, grandparents etc. One of my childhood friends is a teachers aide at the school and she told me that Zahra had told her how happy she was that her dad was marrying EB, as she was happy she would have a mother.

Anyhow, I was wondering if it ever came out what did happen to Zahra? why did she kill her and how? I have always beleived that it was an accidental death but due to EB abusing her ie hitting her head on something etc.

I also do not beleive that Adam did not know anything about it. I dont think he was involved in her death or the gruesome act that then took place, but I do think he knew she was dead and helped the wife try to cover it up.

revampz, you might find the following articles informative and interesting as they reveal new evidence to us and outline the frustrations and simultaneous dedication to finding justice in the case by the DA, James C. Gaither, Jr and his investigators. I have taken these links from posts here in the past couple of days:

http://www.wbtv.com/story/15473441/d...th-elisa-baker

http://www2.morganton.com/news/2011/...rs-ar-1394327/

I'm surprised there hasn't been more in the Australian papers. It's all been a bit cut and dry. I guess because there was no theatricality in a court case to give them sensationalist fodder.

[JeannieC]

Originally Posted by revampz

hi everyone. I have not been reading this thread for ages, though it was on the cover of our Townsville Bulletin the other day that she pleaded guilty. At the beginning of this case I did post that I grew up in Giru and know lots of people that knew Zahra, her dad, the stepmonster, grandparents etc. One of my childhood friends is a teachers aide at the school and she told me that Zahra had told her how happy she was that her dad was marrying EB, as she was happy she would have a mother.

Anyhow, I was wondering if it ever came out what did happen to Zahra? why did she kill her and how? I have always beleived that it was an accidental death but due to EB abusing her ie hitting her head on something etc.

I also do not beleive that Adam did not know anything about it. I dont think he was involved in her death or the gruesome act that then took place, but I do think he knew she was dead and helped the wife try to cover it up.

Hi Revampz

You are not alone, I don't think anyone believes Adam didn't know anything. His mother might believe him but I don't think anyone else does. jmo

His 911 call was so fake that he had to know something! Besides that how could a father go that long and not see his "little girl". He just thinks he fooled people. He neglected Zahra.

I don't know if you have seen the other Zahra Thread. It has all the news articles on it. You can't post on it but you can read the articles.

Here is the link:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=zahra+baker

[DLT88]

Originally Posted by revampz

hi everyone. I have not been reading this thread for ages, though it was on the cover of our Townsville Bulletin the other day that she pleaded guilty. At the beginning of this case I did post that I grew up in Giru and know lots of people that knew Zahra, her dad, the stepmonster, grandparents etc. One of my childhood friends is a teachers aide at the school and she told me that Zahra had told her how happy she was that her dad was marrying EB, as she was happy she would have a mother.

Anyhow, I was wondering if it ever came out what did happen to Zahra? why did she kill her and how? I have always beleived that it was an accidental death but due to EB abusing her ie hitting her head on something etc.

I also do not beleive that Adam did not know anything about it. I dont think he was involved in her death or the gruesome act that then took place, but I do think he knew she was dead and helped the wife try to cover it up.

Hi Revampz - I think we are all still waiting to the answers to your questions in your second paragraph. Unless the stepmonster confesses (truthfully this time), we won't know for sure. When I read some more details this week that they released about finding a bloody pair of girl's pants and dots of Zahra's blood on the wall at the head of the bed and more blood on the floor, a chill came over me because it seems Zahra was killed in the most violent way possible. Stepmonster is a true psycotic murderer. I believe she kept Zahra out of school to pimp her for sex so that she could get drug money. I think something went wrong during one of the rapes and Zahra was badly injured -- hence the bloody pants. As Zahra lay in bed badly injured like that, I think Stepmonster got scared and knew she couldn't let anyone know Zahra was injured like that so she had to 'disappear her' so she struck her in the head with a sharp blow with something very heavy. Blood that splatters like that on the wall comes from a living person whose heart is still pumping. I read they found a pink paintbrush in that fire, too, so Stepmonster proably painted the stain on the wall and didn't notice the tiny dots of blood further down. I pray they find that child's skull because I think that skull will tell the story. This woman is SICK -- Charles Manson-type sick. Demented and psychotic to the max.

[Camille]

Originally Posted by CarrieBean

Hopefully the Federal court will make sure she never gets out. The plea deal was probably the best route to go. We have all recently seen what can happen when peers decide a murderer's fate.

I think that is answered here.

Once Elisa Baker was indicted for murder, additional, low level felonies were also indicted, and we began the process of preparing for trial. I was determined to clear the dockets if necessary to give priority to the case of Elisa Baker. At the same time, I was aware of the issues that any trial can present. Even with her statements there existed defenses that could be raised at trial, and there are always potential issues on appeal. When Elisa Baker agreed to plead guilty to all felony charges she was indicted for including second degree murder in the aggravated range and be sentenced to 18 years in prison, I conferenced with members of Team Zahra, and I consulted with prosecutors across the State and with members of Zahra's family. Today Elisa Baker was sentenced to 18 years in prison and still faces additional charges in federal court. As the District Attorney, it is my responsibility to weigh the risks and the probabilities in every prosecution. The risk in this case was that Elisa Baker would entirely avoid responsibility for her part in the death of Zahra. The probability was that without her cooperation law enforcement would not locate Zahra's body. The probability of a successful prosecution for first degree murder was likewise very unlikely.

As the burden of obtaining justice for Zahra weighed heavy on my office, I weighed carefully the risk versus the gain in indicting Elisa Baker for first degree murder. I consulted with dozens of prosecutors, experts in the field of criminal law and criminal procedure and with law enforcement. The uniform opinion of all counsel that I sought was to avoid the risk of having Elisa Baker go free and to pursue the second degree charge.

http://www.wbtv.com/story/15473441/d...th-elisa-baker




As bad as I hate that she didn't get first degree murder and more time I really think that the DA had no other good option but to take this plea. he may have taken more of a chance if the federal charges weren't hanging over her head as well.

[TrixieBelden]

Originally Posted by Carolina Girl

Could Adam have left his phone at the work site?

I happened to be at home instead of work on the day this was televised. From the testimony that the police officers gave they do not believe he was involved. They verified with the coworker and with the person they were doing the work for that Adam was working and not with Elisa. Pains me to admit it but I guess I was wrong about Adam. I have believed from day one that he had to have been involved. Even the police officer testified that they thought at first that he was in cahoots with Elisa but after examining the cell phone evidence and with witnesses that he apparently was not.

AB did make the comment that he had smoked marijuana more since May that he had spent time with Zahra. He definitely was absent and neglectful in the care of his daughter. Too bad there is not a charge for that but I guess he will pay for the rest of his life and beyond.

Sorry if this has all been covered but just my 2 cents worth.

[TrixieBelden]

Originally Posted by TorisMom003

I personally don't give a carp what Adam Baker thinks of his wife. She was not alone in that house with Zahra all the time. She was not the only parent that Zahra had. Adam should accept his role in Zahra's death as well. When you make a choice to ignore your child then you yourself are also responsible for what ever happens to your child. Besides, no one put a gun to Adam's head and made him get high on pot or whatever other drugs he was doing so he could pretend that it wasn't happening.

Emily, PLEASE fight your ex for your daughters remains and bury her in a spot of YOUR choosing without any input from him.

MOO

AMEN! Couldn't have said it better myself!

[TrixieBelden]

Originally Posted by JeannieC

Probably a Voice Lie Detection System or Voice Stress Detector.

[/color] I was watching that day and heard most of the testimony except the first part bc I didn't know the hearing was on. I did hear about the test they gave Adam and I can't remember what it was called but I belive (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that he pointed out the location where a large mulch pile was for his work. Remember when Law Enf. searched one of his work areas? Apparently he thought if there was anywhere Zahra could be it would be there bc Elisa knew about it. That is all paraphrasing but I belive it was the gist of the testimony.

[TrixieBelden]

Hope this is not out of line but I wonder if there will be any further mention of AY? I would not be surprised if it comes up in her federal drug hearing. Also what about the website that EB was on where she & others? were involved in a killing type fantasy game?

Haven't heard any of this mentioned at all.

[Flakes]

Originally Posted by DLT88

Hi Revampz - I think we are all still waiting to the answers to your questions in your second paragraph. Unless the stepmonster confesses (truthfully this time), we won't know for sure. When I read some more details this week that they released about finding a bloody pair of girl's pants and dots of Zahra's blood on the wall at the head of the bed and more blood on the floor, a chill came over me because it seems Zahra was killed in the most violent way possible. Stepmonster is a true psycotic murderer. I believe she kept Zahra out of school to pimp her for sex so that she could get drug money. I think something went wrong during one of the rapes and Zahra was badly injured -- hence the bloody pants. As Zahra lay in bed badly injured like that, I think Stepmonster got scared and knew she couldn't let anyone know Zahra was injured like that so she had to 'disappear her' so she struck her in the head with a sharp blow with something very heavy. Blood that splatters like that on the wall comes from a living person whose heart is still pumping. I read they found a pink paintbrush in that fire, too, so Stepmonster proably painted the stain on the wall and didn't notice the tiny dots of blood further down. I pray they find that child's skull because I think that skull will tell the story. This woman is SICK -- Charles Manson-type sick. Demented and psychotic to the max.

As sad as it makes me feel, I somehow think your hypothesis is in the right direction. I have always felt that whatever made EB dismember and scatter the remains of Zahra so maliciously and disrespectfully must have been the result of a massive error on her behalf. A foiled plan (such as the theory you have proposed), fit of rage, or something similar. I doubt she initially set out to kill poor Zahra, as frankly that's a complicated and inconvenient situation to deal with.

I suspect she thought she was incredibly clever in the way she handled the cover up – dismembering and removing the body as she did, covering up the pink paint over blood spatter on the wall, burning the paint brush, scattering all the body parts and evidence, continuing to pretend to AB that Zahra was alive and well, and then the ultimate cover-up with the ransom note.

Fortunately she just wasn't smart enough. She failed from the outset of playing out the plan: 1) with the comment to authorities about the taping up of the area, asking if that was because they suspected Zahra was killed there; and 2) because she clearly messed up with the ransom note and was left with no choice but to confess. I'm certain she was put through incredibly gruelling questioning as they would have smelled a stench reeking from her that left little doubt in their minds of her ultimate involvement. And then she crumbled. Not entirely as she wove stories one on top of the other ... but all these stories really did was illustrate how indecent and horrid she really was.

No parent (biological or step) would desecrate the body of a child, dismember her, then scatter her remains and conjure up a ludicrous abduction cover-up story, if that child had truly died from an illness as EB claimed. Nor would any parent (biological or step) dismember a child unless there was a seriously good reason too. It's too much trouble, and honestly I can't even begin to imagine how horrid a process it was. There had to be a very significant reason for going to that effort! The only reason I can imagine is in order to hide other incriminating evidence to protect yourself.

If you wanted to commit such a murderous and sadistic act for the challenge or excitement of it, I think you'd choose a stranger, not a family member living under your own roof. Because you can guarantee you'd be under the spotlight continuously, your behaviour would be constantly monitored, and the questioning would be extensive. If you let your guard down, or acted inappropriately or unexpectedly at any time your cover would be blown instantly. IMO that's just too much hard work.

Which brings me back to your hypothesis, DLT88. If Zahra was being prostituted or was raped (the blood-covered pants) then this would explain the need for dismemberment of the legs from the torso – to damage the area and make it impossible to detect any existing damage. Removing her head (as many have suggested here) would hide a blow to the head (after all, the blood spatter at her bed-head end on the wall indicates this is highly probable). And obviously to scatter the remains would reduce the chance of recovery and "putting the pieces together" (as has sadly occurred).

Question – if they determined for whatever reason from this time forth, that Zahra was prostituted and this resulted in her murder, would the US system be able to deliver more charges against EB? Also, if they recovered her skull and were able to establish a specific cause of death would more charges be laid?

[gracielee]

I think for anything to do with Zahra's death, double jeopardy would kick in. EB can't be tried for her death again. But in my opinion, if evidence could be made that EB was allowing Zahra to be sexually assaulted, and Zahra being a minor especially, I would think EB could be charged with that. JMO though. I find this case so disturbing. That poor child. I would have to charge AB with lots and lots of crimes of neglect against that poor baby. This case makes me so angry.

[gracielee]

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/10154050/


this was on the local news tonight.

[Mountain_Kat]

Itmakes me livid the way everyone piles on a mother for every decision she makes, but never seem to hold fathers to the same standards. If a mother gives up a child because she's financially or emotionally unable to care for a child, people call that abandoning a child. But if a father walks out on a child (or smokes pot constantly and doesn't even know his child is dead for 2 weeks!)...oh well, not a biggie.

It's infuriating.

[Wise Old Owl]

Originally Posted by Mountain_Kat

Itmakes me livid the way everyone piles on a mother for every decision she makes, but never seem to hold fathers to the same standards. If a mother gives up a child because she's financially or emotionally unable to care for a child, people call that abandoning a child. But if a father walks out on a child (or smokes pot constantly and doesn't even know his child is dead for 2 weeks!)...oh well, not a biggie.

It's infuriating.

No Kat - its called a double standard. And apparently it's alive and well in the good ole USofA.

[Hickory Born]

Originally Posted by Flakes

As sad as it makes me feel, I somehow think your hypothesis is in the right direction. I have always felt that whatever made EB dismember and scatter the remains of Zahra so maliciously and disrespectfully must have been the result of a massive error on her behalf. A foiled plan (such as the theory you have proposed), fit of rage, or something similar. I doubt she initially set out to kill poor Zahra, as frankly that's a complicated and inconvenient situation to deal with.

I suspect she thought she was incredibly clever in the way she handled the cover up – dismembering and removing the body as she did, covering up the pink paint over blood spatter on the wall, burning the paint brush, scattering all the body parts and evidence, continuing to pretend to AB that Zahra was alive and well, and then the ultimate cover-up with the ransom note.

Fortunately she just wasn't smart enough. She failed from the outset of playing out the plan: 1) with the comment to authorities about the taping up of the area, asking if that was because they suspected Zahra was killed there; and 2) because she clearly messed up with the ransom note and was left with no choice but to confess. I'm certain she was put through incredibly gruelling questioning as they would have smelled a stench reeking from her that left little doubt in their minds of her ultimate involvement. And then she crumbled. Not entirely as she wove stories one on top of the other ... but all these stories really did was illustrate how indecent and horrid she really was.

No parent (biological or step) would desecrate the body of a child, dismember her, then scatter her remains and conjure up a ludicrous abduction cover-up story, if that child had truly died from an illness as EB claimed. Nor would any parent (biological or step) dismember a child unless there was a seriously good reason too. It's too much trouble, and honestly I can't even begin to imagine how horrid a process it was. There had to be a very significant reason for going to that effort! The only reason I can imagine is in order to hide other incriminating evidence to protect yourself.

If you wanted to commit such a murderous and sadistic act for the challenge or excitement of it, I think you'd choose a stranger, not a family member living under your own roof. Because you can guarantee you'd be under the spotlight continuously, your behaviour would be constantly monitored, and the questioning would be extensive. If you let your guard down, or acted inappropriately or unexpectedly at any time your cover would be blown instantly. IMO that's just too much hard work.

Which brings me back to your hypothesis, DLT88. If Zahra was being prostituted or was raped (the blood-covered pants) then this would explain the need for dismemberment of the legs from the torso – to damage the area and make it impossible to detect any existing damage. Removing her head (as many have suggested here) would hide a blow to the head (after all, the blood spatter at her bed-head end on the wall indicates this is highly probable). And obviously to scatter the remains would reduce the chance of recovery and "putting the pieces together" (as has sadly occurred).

Question – if they determined for whatever reason from this time forth, that Zahra was prostituted and this resulted in her murder, would the US system be able to deliver more charges against EB? Also, if they recovered her skull and were able to establish a specific cause of death would more charges be laid?

BBM

To the best of my recollection, LE said there was blood on a pair of pants. They did not tell us how much blood or where it was located on the pants.

For all we know, Zahra would have had a cut on her leg, scratched a mosquito bite, had her menstrual period, been injured from sexual abuse, an injury to her stump, etc.

LE did not tell us if "pants" were underwear, jeans, shorts, etc.

IMO, the DA should clear up this confussion and inform the public of the particulars.

How much blood was found? Where was blood found on the pants? What kind of pants?

[borndem]

Originally Posted by CarrieBean

Hopefully the Federal court will make sure she never gets out. The plea deal was probably the best route to go. We have all recently seen what can happen when peers decide a murderer's fate.

You are exactly right, CarrieBean -- yes, she should have gotten LWOP, but IMO, w/o a cause of death -- and the jury might not have bought something like, "unknown homicidal violence" IOW -- blunt trauma -- can't prove it; stabbed to death -- can't prove it; beaten to death -- can't prove it; shot dead -- can't prove it; poisoned -- can't prove it; and on and on... Yep, I agree -- without a specific MOD/COD, juries get weird about throwing the Big book at 'em..... been there, done that...

And EB had to settle for the harshest sentence in the category where she & her prior crimes fit -- her atty didn't talk them down from "aggravated." Based on legal stds, the DAs office won that fight. So, she will live for quite a while on the State's dime and in their accommodations.

And no, she will not get half her minimum sentence reduced for good behavior -- they don't do it that way any more. She should serve at least 80% of her lowest time -- if other factors are in her favor.

Then, with a Federal conviction on drug possession and the other Fed charges, it may be they who have to pay for her funeral shroud...

[Hickory Born]

Originally Posted by Hickory Born

BBM

To the best of my recollection, LE said there was blood on a pair of pants. They did not tell us how much blood or where it was located on the pants.

For all we know, Zahra would have had a cut on her leg, scratched a mosquito bite, had her menstrual period, been injured from sexual abuse, an injury to her stump, etc.

LE did not tell us if "pants" were underwear, jeans, shorts, etc.

IMO, the DA should clear up this confussion and inform the public of the particulars.

How much blood was found? Where was blood found on the pants? What kind of pants?

Sorry, in 2nd paragraph the word is suppose to be "COULD." My mistake.

[borndem]

Originally Posted by TorisMom003

I have always been of the opinion that several people knew exactly what was going on in that house and did nothing to stop it. I also believe that several people knew exactly what Elisa did and kept their mouths shut so that they would not be charged with their own lists of crimes. I saw no fear whatsoever in that lovely "family" photo that was taken on Mother's day of Elisa and her children. In the end the adults that could have helped Zahra decided that she was not worth jail time for them if they saved her. And I include Adam in that list as well as some others that are not blood relatives of Elisa.

MOO

Hmmmm, that's an interesting idea, TorisMom. I think others suspected, as well, and that they knew things before it ticked down to the last day. Seems like they could have made an anonymous call to a Police Helpline or something, or called the local news media anonymously if all else failed -- IDK. I wonder if they might have been more afraid of EB..... And I wonder if AB was the most afraid of her... just a thought I have about him that would at least explain his actions or his lack of action...

I guess just nobody cared enough.

It's such a fouled-up web of a mess wrapped up in a mystery. So frustrating. But at least that b**ch is behind bars.

[gracielee]

Originally Posted by borndem

Hmmmm, that's an interesting idea, TorisMom. I think others suspected, as well, and that they knew things before it ticked down to the last day. Seems like they could have made an anonymous call to a Police Helpline or something, or called the local news media anonymously if all else failed -- IDK. I wonder if they might have been more afraid of EB..... And I wonder if AB was the most afraid of her... just a thought I have about him that would at least explain his actions or his lack of action...

I guess just nobody cared enough.

It's such a fouled-up web of a mess wrapped up in a mystery. So frustrating. But at least that b**ch is behind bars.

This was such a sad case. :-( She was such a sweet little girl.


Hi ya borndem, where is everyone hanging out now? I miss the old Cooper/Young gang.

gracielee

[Kat]

Originally Posted by impatientredhead

I think she was concerned the skull would be found which would show cause of death and sink her completely. Her sentence is pretty doable. She probably has pen pals just like all the other lunatics in the press. She lives in fantasy world, she can do that behind bars and not have to worry about paying her bills.

I agree with you about her skull. I think that was the most disheartening thing I've read so far. I had assumed they had located it, not sure how or why I missed that they hadn't.

Could be two reasons (or more) 1. As you mentioned. Her skull would show exactly how it was she died. That it was a violent death.

2. That by not disclosing the location of her skull the convicted murderer maintains control over not only the victim but the other victims.

It could be a combo of both. I am inclined to go with number 1 as the primary reason.

I don't think that Zahra's murder was a "soft kill". I think she was violently murdered, and then dismembered. There is absolutely no reason to dismember someone that was murdered by a soft kill. If hidden well enough many times decomp can mask or hide that method of murder too easily.

IMHO Zahra was assaulted and murdered. Not only was her body dismembered to hide that violence but also because the murderer had intense hatred and Zahra was the scapegoat for that hatred and anger.

As for Adam, IMHO I'm not sure if he is legally culpable. Meaning that I am not sure they could ever charge him, prove it and make it stick. But IMHO by all means the abuse did not start with the murder. And although it is almost impossible to make the leap from abusive behavior to murder and dismemberment, Zahra's father should have done more to protect Zahra from abuse. I view him the same way I view the multitude of women we see that bring men into their lives that murder their children. Morally culpable.

all JMHO

[JeannieC]

Originally Posted by kat

i agree with you about her skull. I think that was the most disheartening thing i've read so far. I had assumed they had located it, not sure how or why i missed that they hadn't.

Could be two reasons (or more) 1. As you mentioned. Her skull would show exactly how it was she died. That it was a violent death.

2. That by not disclosing the location of her skull the convicted murderer maintains control over not only the victim but the other victims.

It could be a combo of both. I am inclined to go with number 1 as the primary reason.

I don't think that zahra's murder was a "soft kill". I think she was violently murdered, and then dismembered. There is absolutely no reason to dismember someone that was murdered by a soft kill. If hidden well enough many times decomp can mask or hide that method of murder too easily.

Imho zahra was assaulted and murdered. Not only was her body dismembered to hide that violence but also because the murderer had intense hatred and zahra was the scapegoat for that hatred and anger.

As for adam, imho i'm not sure if he is legally culpable. Meaning that i am not sure they could ever charge him, prove it and make it stick. But imho by all means the abuse did not start with the murder. And although it is almost impossible to make the leap from abusive behavior to murder and dismemberment, zahra's father should have done more to protect zahra from abuse. i view him the same way i view the multitude of women we see that bring men into their lives that murder their children. Morally culpable.

All jmho

bbm

amen and it happens everyday!

[borndem]

Originally Posted by Flakes

As sad as it makes me feel, I somehow think your hypothesis is in the right direction. I have always felt that whatever made EB dismember and scatter the remains of Zahra so maliciously and disrespectfully must have been the result of a massive error on her behalf. A foiled plan (such as the theory you have proposed), fit of rage, or something similar. I doubt she initially set out to kill poor Zahra, as frankly that's a complicated and inconvenient situation to deal with.

I suspect she thought she was incredibly clever in the way she handled the cover up – dismembering and removing the body as she did, covering up the pink paint over blood spatter on the wall, burning the paint brush, scattering all the body parts and evidence, continuing to pretend to AB that Zahra was alive and well, and then the ultimate cover-up with the ransom note.

Fortunately she just wasn't smart enough. She failed from the outset of playing out the plan: 1) with the comment to authorities about the taping up of the area, asking if that was because they suspected Zahra was killed there; and 2) because she clearly messed up with the ransom note and was left with no choice but to confess. I'm certain she was put through incredibly gruelling questioning as they would have smelled a stench reeking from her that left little doubt in their minds of her ultimate involvement. And then she crumbled. Not entirely as she wove stories one on top of the other ... but all these stories really did was illustrate how indecent and horrid she really was.

No parent (biological or step) would desecrate the body of a child, dismember her, then scatter her remains and conjure up a ludicrous abduction cover-up story, if that child had truly died from an illness as EB claimed. Nor would any parent (biological or step) dismember a child unless there was a seriously good reason too. It's too much trouble, and honestly I can't even begin to imagine how horrid a process it was. There had to be a very significant reason for going to that effort! The only reason I can imagine is in order to hide other incriminating evidence to protect yourself.

If you wanted to commit such a murderous and sadistic act for the challenge or excitement of it, I think you'd choose a stranger, not a family member living under your own roof. Because you can guarantee you'd be under the spotlight continuously, your behaviour would be constantly monitored, and the questioning would be extensive. If you let your guard down, or acted inappropriately or unexpectedly at any time your cover would be blown instantly. IMO that's just too much hard work.

Which brings me back to your hypothesis, DLT88. If Zahra was being prostituted or was raped (the blood-covered pants) then this would explain the need for dismemberment of the legs from the torso – to damage the area and make it impossible to detect any existing damage. Removing her head (as many have suggested here) would hide a blow to the head (after all, the blood spatter at her bed-head end on the wall indicates this is highly probable). And obviously to scatter the remains would reduce the chance of recovery and "putting the pieces together" (as has sadly occurred).

Question – if they determined for whatever reason from this time forth, that Zahra was prostituted and this resulted in her murder, would the US system be able to deliver more charges against EB? Also, if they recovered her skull and were able to establish a specific cause of death would more charges be laid?

Flakes -- Good post!

The State of NC won't get a mulligan on the 2nd D murder charge, so that's moot -- GracieLee correctly nailed it as double jeopardy. But if they could prove rape (tuff without a body -- but maybe the bloody pants?), they could probably charge her with 1st Degree rape (B1 felony, good for big jail-time & can go as high as LWOP) and human trafficking, much as the LEO's have in Cumberland Co with the mother of Shaniya Davis.

But who would do it? The Feds probably don't care & the State/County folks may have gone on to the next case.....::::