09-17-2011 Topaz Mountain Search Yields Charred Wood and Decomp

[HotLavaJavas]

Originally Posted by Jacie Estes

When you look at the picture of the church event that I posted a few posts back, she did not look well then. Her complexion had completely changed and she appeared bloated. There was a reason she kept a journal at work; perhaps she suspected that he was doing that.

About the way he looks; I think stevie is responsible for that.

I am so glad I wasn't the only person to notice.

[BeanE]

While searchers had not indicated they had found any item of significance, police are saying they will remain in the area until they believe it has been thoroughly scoured — which may take a few more days.

"That way we can verify that we've covered the ground we've wanted to and been able to go back and retrace anything we felt necessary to go back and cover again," West Valley Police Sgt. Mike Powell said.

Tuesday marked the ninth day West Valley police officers have searched the central Utah desert. An estimated 75 searchers on ATVs and horseback combed an area northwest of Topaz Mountain.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...l?s_cid=rss-32

[Jacie Estes]

Originally Posted by HotLavaJavas

I am so glad I wasn't the only person to notice.

As a dv survivor I saw through josh's facade and looked for signs; her appearance was important to her, as with any woman. It was a control issue for him. IMHO

When you have been in a dv situation, which by the way emotional and economic abuse ARE dv issues, you become part of a sisterhood. Susan is the sister I have never met. I work in domestic violence advocacy now and her story has been one that keeps me going. It may make some people angry but I will always speak of her and hope one day to be able to put a period at the end of her tale. I want justice for her.

[hollyblue]

Originally Posted by Jacie Estes

When you look at the picture of the church event that I posted a few posts back, she did not look well then. Her complexion had completely changed and she appeared bloated. There was a reason she kept a journal at work; perhaps she suspected that he was doing that.

About the way he looks; I think stevie is responsible for that.

Taking hair from one of her brushes would have revealed if she had been poisoned over a time period..if LE tested for it. Possibly even when it started, if positive. jmo

[hollyblue]

At least eight different law enforcement agencies participated in the search as well as a private citizen with an airplane and at least one search dog.

If nothing is found by the end of Wednesday, police said they would evaluate whether to halt the search of the area. At this time, there no definite end date to the search.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...l?s_cid=rss-32

[cocomod]

Originally Posted by ransackmobilize

First off; don't assume someone can poison someone just because "they look like someone who could do that". No wonder the guy went into hiding (after 3 police interviews). Any lawyer worth his money will always tell his client to not talk to police, especially if you are suspect #1 and they are grasping at straws. Being popular with public opinion is the least of Josh's worries. He's worried about his boys, angry/worried/confused regarding his wife, and of course the mob mentality which plagues him every day which he fears may turn into violence against him or his family. Look at the Casey Anthony trial- people threatening her family. Everyone reacts differently- and with the advent of the internet; any little detail can become misconstrued, distorted (in regards to his demeanor, affect, etc.). It's great to have forum discussion, but sad people have tunnel vision.


People need to remember the following quote from Kiirsi's blog:

"Here, once and for all is the short answer to those questions: You don’t know all the details here. There are many, many details of Susan’s background/relationship with Josh/etc. that have NOT been made public. And you WILL NOT hear them from me, either. My whole goal, focus and priority here is to find Susan. This includes not telling the world things the police want kept inside the investigation. "

And no; this just isn't related to Steve's antics.

BBM ransackmobilize, unfortunately, Josh has not done ANYTHING to prove his innocence. He has NOT searched for his wife. He MOVED immediately after she went missing. He BASHED his missing wife in the public and she was unable to defend herself. He put up the most unflattering pictures of his most beautiful wife he could find on a website. This "website" does nothing to promote the finding of his missing wife, but does more to bash her and her family. Sorry, this is not helping him in the eye of the public.

Now, have him walk into the police dept and give them information that he has always refused to provide. Such as, what was she wearing when he last saw her... Let's see - take a poly and prove his innocence. Hmmmm... Let his children see their grandparents. Such small steps would go a VERY long way!

It is interesting that things were almost quiet with the investigation until he and his father brought up the fact that they were going to publish Susan's diary entries. I am sorry RSM, but I will never be able to agree with what you are saying. I will never be able to believe that the media made Josh act the way that he did.

[mysteriew]

Originally Posted by ransackmobilize

First off; don't assume someone can poison someone just because "they look like someone who could do that". No wonder the guy went into hiding (after 3 police interviews). Any lawyer worth his money will always tell his client to not talk to police, especially if you are suspect #1 and they are grasping at straws. Being popular with public opinion is the least of Josh's worries. He's worried about his boys, angry/worried/confused regarding his wife, and of course the mob mentality which plagues him every day which he fears may turn into violence against him or his family. Look at the Casey Anthony trial- people threatening her family. Everyone reacts differently- and with the advent of the internet; any little detail can become misconstrued, distorted (in regards to his demeanor, affect, etc.). It's great to have forum discussion, but sad people have tunnel vision.


People need to remember the following quote from Kiirsi's blog:

"Here, once and for all is the short answer to those questions: You don’t know all the details here. There are many, many details of Susan’s background/relationship with Josh/etc. that have NOT been made public. And you WILL NOT hear them from me, either. My whole goal, focus and priority here is to find Susan. This includes not telling the world things the police want kept inside the investigation. "

And no; this just isn't related to Steve's antics.

Hello Ransackmobilize and welcome to WS!

I take it you do know the Powells? I do agree with you that any attorney will reccommend to his/her clients that they not talk to media.

If you know things about the background of Susan and the Powells, it is up to you whether you wish to discuss them here or not. And it isn't really important that you post them here. (Though it would go a long way public image wise if people who wished to help the Powells would step forward and talk.)

Have you talked with LE about your observations? That would be important for you to be forthcoming with them.

[hollyblue]

Well, I don't know what to think of the other media outlets not commenting on the DNA evidence found. It was just a short blurp at the begining of that video on ABC4. Maybe it was something LE wanted to keep quite and slipped out from someone to them? Maybe just a bad rumor? She never said who the source was for that info...but I'm sure curious if there is any truth and fact to it. ???? jmo

[Fairy1]

<modsnip>

Never seen anything like this in a missing person's case. Ever.

I sure do hope LE is onto something with this latest search.

[cluciano63]

Originally Posted by BeanE

Here's an MSM article from Friday on that:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/129971923.html

Are these the same remains that were said to be found in Federal Way, WA? Or more?

[dovebar]

Originally Posted by Jacie Estes

When you look at the picture of the church event that I posted a few posts back, she did not look well then. Her complexion had completely changed and she appeared bloated. There was a reason she kept a journal at work; perhaps she suspected that he was doing that.

These actions are what speak volumes to me. I don't put a lot of stock in people who claim to have been the friend or the confidante and therefore know "secret" things - after all, that's SP's argument too!. Susan isn't here and can't speak to that. Probably half a dozen people think that I've "told them everything" about me and guess what, they'd be wrong! Add to that that Susan, like a lot of dv victims, was probably very judgmental of herself - and inclined to tolerate judgmental people around her, not just Josh.

At the end of the day, actions speak louder than everything. She was the better parent of the two. She was educated, she was the stable breadwinner. She moved away from the creepy father-in-law. Given her background, she seems to have done what she could to stabilize her life. She just didn't know how bad it could get.

I'm sure that whatever inner problems she struggled with are shared by a huge percentage of Utahns, to say nothing of other people. She didn't deserve to die for it or to have her memory whispered about by people who like to be the one "in the know." She deserves to live on as a cautionary tale for all young women and here it is: if you need to keep your journal at work, you need a divorce lawyer - not tomorrow, not next week, but today. It's a bad situation, not your fault, it happens - and you need to leave everything, take your kids, and go to a shelter. Your next dinner of pancakes is likely your last. Quit thinking you can fix the situation. Just quit and go.

[HotLavaJavas]

Originally Posted by dovebar

These actions are what speak volumes to me. I don't put a lot of stock in people who claim to have been the friend or the confidante and therefore know "secret" things - after all, that's SP's argument too!. Susan isn't here and can't speak to that. Probably half a dozen people think that I've "told them everything" about me and guess what, they'd be wrong! Add to that that Susan, like a lot of dv victims, was probably very judgmental of herself - and inclined to tolerate judgmental people around her, not just Josh.

I don't claim to know everything about Susan, or her secrets, but she was my friend.

[Just-a-Guy]

Originally Posted by dovebar

These actions are what speak volumes to me. I don't put a lot of stock in people who claim to have been the friend or the confidante and therefore know "secret" things - after all, that's SP's argument too!. Susan isn't here and can't speak to that. Probably half a dozen people think that I've "told them everything" about me and guess what, they'd be wrong! Add to that that Susan, like a lot of dv victims, was probably very judgmental of herself - and inclined to tolerate judgmental people around her, not just Josh.

At the end of the day, actions speak louder than everything. She was the better parent of the two. She was educated, she was the stable breadwinner. She moved away from the creepy father-in-law. Given her background, she seems to have done what she could to stabilize her life. She just didn't know how bad it could get.

I'm sure that whatever inner problems she struggled with are shared by a huge percentage of Utahns, to say nothing of other people. She didn't deserve to die for it or to have her memory whispered about by people who like to be the one "in the know." She deserves to live on as a cautionary tale for all young women and here it is: if you need to keep your journal at work, you need a divorce lawyer - not tomorrow, not next week, but today. It's a bad situation, not your fault, it happens - and you need to leave everything, take your kids, and go to a shelter. Your next dinner of pancakes is likely your last. Quit thinking you can fix the situation. Just quit and go.

Clicking the "Thanks" button won't come close. Thank you for that post.

I am a lawyer, and my wife is a divorce lawyer (a "matrimonial lawyer") and a former chief court attorney for a matrimonial judge in a difficult town. I've seen and heard a lot, and so has she. She's had husbands chase her out of the courthouse, and had to get restraining orders to protect herself from some of them. There are a lot of jerks out there, and no one really knows where their tipping point is. Even them.

So well said -- if you have to keep a secret journal, you need to change your life so you no longer have to keep a secret journal. Just get out. Don't wait. Do it now. There are places you can turn to for help. It's not hard to find them. Especially if there are children involved, but regardless, take care of yourself. While you can.

[dovebar]

Originally Posted by HotLavaJavas

I don't claim to know everything about Susan, or her secrets, but she was my friend.

I am not posting about you or anyone in particular, but against a trend of late by people claiming to have "secret knowledge" of dark sides of Susan. Indeed, this is a tactic of abusers, to trash the memories of victims (and their reputations while they are alive).

[gwenabob]

Originally Posted by dovebar

I am not posting about you or anyone in particular, but against a trend of late by people claiming to have "secret knowledge" of dark sides of Susan. Indeed, this is a tactic of abusers, to trash the memories of victims (and their reputations while they are alive).

Yes, we see that in the website Josh and his father run. Purposely picked the worst photos, purposely omit the fact that she was a stockbroker, trash Susan's family and her church and friends, claim she ran off with another missing man (impossible due to their non-intersecting timelines), trash everything about her. Very abusive. Very telling.

[MsFacetious]

Originally Posted by DomCasual

I've wondered that, over time. She almost looks like she has a medical condition - alopecia, or something - in some of the pictures. So, you never saw anything like that with her? I wonder if he Photoshopped them.

The thing is that EVERYONE takes bad pictures, like the ones he has on that site. The thing is that most people just drag them to the recycle bin on their computer, so that no one ever sees them. He seems to have deliberately chosen them.

I wondered about her thyroid. (Thyroid issues run in my family as does Alopecia actually.)
I have no idea of the time line on the pictures. I don't know how soon some of them were after the kids were born.
I have no idea how far apart they are or if the ones with thin hair were taken around the same time.
There is just a few things that go along with thyroid that could apply to Susan... and when I saw the hair too it made me wonder.

Hypothyroidism

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001393/

Hyperthyroidism

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001396/

[Oriah]

Originally Posted by HotLavaJavas

I don't claim to know everything about Susan, or her secrets, but she was my friend.

<<hugs>> HotLavaJavas.

This is one of the most genuine, honest, and moving posts I think I've ever read.

[Jacie Estes]

Originally Posted by Just-a-Guy

Clicking the "Thanks" button won't come close. Thank you for that post.

I am a lawyer, and my wife is a divorce lawyer (a "matrimonial lawyer") and a former chief court attorney for a matrimonial judge in a difficult town. I've seen and heard a lot, and so has she. She's had husbands chase her out of the courthouse, and had to get restraining orders to protect herself from some of them. There are a lot of jerks out there, and no one really knows where their tipping point is. Even them.

So well said -- if you have to keep a secret journal, you need to change your life so you no longer have to keep a secret journal. Just get out. Don't wait. Do it now. There are places you can turn to for help. It's not hard to find them. Especially if there are children involved, but regardless, take care of yourself. While you can.

In your position you have seen the extremes and you also understand that for some women leaving is difficult. No matter if it is for economic, emotional or societal/familial reasons, some women just don't leave. Just as the abuser may not know their tipping point; there are abused women who don't know theirs. While there may not be the occurence of Stockholm Syndrome; they are just not able to leave.

Even in the shelter situation, some are still not able to leave. One of the saddest moments for me was to see an infant with bruises of handprints, adult size, covering her torso and back. The mother, after a day in the shelter wanted to go back; she did so but without the baby because we called the authorities.

It is good that there are lawyers like you and your wife who have concern for abused women and work in the system. Keep up your good work.

[Jacie Estes]

Originally Posted by dovebar

I am not posting about you or anyone in particular, but against a trend of late by people claiming to have "secret knowledge" of dark sides of Susan. Indeed, this is a tactic of abusers, to trash the memories of victims (and their reputations while they are alive).

Classic abuser sign, trash the victim. Susan was a much better person than her abuser and she suffered for that.

Do you work in the shelter/dv advocacy system?

[BeanE]

I'm not seeing any new news tweets this morning. I'll keep checking through the day.

[lonetraveler]

Originally Posted by BeanE

Here's an MSM article from Friday on that:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/129971923.html

Yep, I posted the other article when I noticed that it was dated September 20, 2011. I got excited that this was a different find until I took the time to read it all the way through and saw that it was the same remains found Friday. Sorry, I'm just so want for Susan to be found.

[Just-a-Guy]

Originally Posted by Jacie Estes

In your position you have seen the extremes and you also understand that for some women leaving is difficult. No matter if it is for economic, emotional or societal/familial reasons, some women just don't leave. Just as the abuser may not know their tipping point; there are abused women who don't know theirs. While there may not be the occurence of Stockholm Syndrome; they are just not able to leave.

Even in the shelter situation, some are still not able to leave. One of the saddest moments for me was to see an infant with bruises of handprints, adult size, covering her torso and back. The mother, after a day in the shelter wanted to go back; she did so but without the baby because we called the authorities.

It is good that there are lawyers like you and your wife who have concern for abused women and work in the system. Keep up your good work.

Thanks. I would add to your reasons why many women do not leave, religion. And while I have zero interest in discussing the merits of that (or anything else about religion) on a forum, it is a reality that it is a significant reason why some women do not leave.

Very sad about the baby with the handprints. Good that you were there.

[Dr. Know?]

natecarlisle Nate Carlisle
Don't expect many #SusanPowell search updates until evening. Search now is waaaay out in Juab Co. 30 min drive for cell service. #findSUSAN

http://twitter.com/#!/natecarlisle

[dovebar]

Originally Posted by Jacie Estes

To assume that Susan took the wrong actions is monday morning quarter-backing. Every situation is different; it appears that she did what she was able to do, given the circumstances. Sadly, there was an 'element' of deceit that was at play.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda doesn't help her now; neither does judgemental thought.

Which is why, if you would re-read my post before jumping to judgment about it, you would see I specifically agreed with this - she did what she was able to do. Sadly, it was not enough to protect her. She had more than one creep arrayed against her, and a lifetime of low self-worth. That is not monday morning quarterbacking. That is expressing sadness at the tragedy of it.

What gives additional dignity to her death is that other young, trusting women who are deceivable - and the loving and trusting are easier "marks" for these people - is that someone can learn from it. Although not all situations are preventable, we can begin to teach young people how to spot deceit, how not to excuse it, how not to "forgive it" over and over again. They get too many messages about "working on things," and "for the children" and on and on. They need to get some counter-messages about how it's okay to leave to protect yourself, and that if your diary isn't safe, you aren't either.

A good book for many to read is _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, which details how unpredictably violent troubled people can be. Many times, capable young people like Susan think they are "capable" of managing their troubled spouse. They are culturally encouraged in this by all sorts of influences - family, basic expectations for being a woman, and look how much reality TV today encourages people to stay in relationships with those who are given to violent outbursts! We need to teach kids how to spot unhealthy relationships, whether they are unhealthy in a "stealth," silent way, or unhealthy in a loud and chaotic way - because both can turn violent.

[BeanE]

natecarlisle Nate Carlisle

Command post for #SusanPowell search has moved back to Topaz Mountain, WVCPD says. #findSUSAN
10 minutes ago