Websleuths
Go Back   Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Featured Case Discussion > Hot Cases > Lauren Spierer General Discussion Threads

Notices


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 09-23-2011, 02:11 PM
jacy's Avatar
jacy jacy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedrosmom View Post
HT should be a POI if she's not already. I think she was jealous of Lauren, a beautiful blonde, natural, tiny, sweet, loved by so many. I have yet to see her shed a tear, just babbling to the media, LOVING to hear herself talk. That chick is bad news IMO.
The first time I saw HT on tv, I thought, "Does this gal realize this isn't fiction? Why is she giddy? Why is she acting like this?" It's hard to know if:

she's aware of more than she lets on...
OR
that to be on television and in so much drama and excitement she fails to grasp both the gravity and the reality of the situation. JMO.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to jacy For This Useful Post:
  #77  
Old 09-23-2011, 02:17 PM
Jupiter812 Jupiter812 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,745
CS/RS detective goes public. Former NYPD detective BD.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/good_day_...-case-20110923
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Jupiter812 For This Useful Post:
  #78  
Old 09-23-2011, 02:25 PM
holly2325 holly2325 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalyticalExaminer View Post
On the issue of what is a fact: We know that all three 5N POI have taken polygraphs, most or all of which were privately-administered. We don't know what they were asked, or whether they told the truth, but I think it's a good assumption that pretty much anything they have told LE they also told to the poly administrator, and that they probably were only poly'd on things that were true. Therefore, I think that we can assume it's probable that most or all of what we have heard from LE and the POI's attorneys, and perhaps also what we have heard from the POI via other parties, is true. This includes JR watching LS walk off, from wherever he did so, and CR's memory loss (though how precisely that was subject to a poly might be open to question). It is of course entirely possible that these things are not true - we're all rightly somewhat skeptical about them - and maybe even probable given the family's questioning. But for purposes of helping to figure out what happened, which I think is the purpose of this forum, I think it might benefit us to try to come up with some thoughts based on the assumption that they are, even if we might prefer for whatever reason to believe that they are not. That is my personal belief.
I think your logic is solid here. An atty would only poly statements that could be interpreted as true. For example, CR would poly to "I have no memory of the evening" (he doesn't have a memory but he knows because someone told him), MB would poly to "I watched her walk out the door (doesn't say with who) and MB may also poly to "Do you want to party" (she may have also said ,CR gave me the craziest pill at Sports, you should try one) but he would leave that out. JR may poly to "I watched her round the corner"
(could be in the back of a car or over someone's shoulder)

I would love to see each of them give these statements under oath.

But given all that I think the odds are higher for JR beating a poly than for him to have the patience at 4:00 in the morning to watch a barefoot girl walk to the corner.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to holly2325 For This Useful Post:
  #79  
Old 09-23-2011, 02:30 PM
AnalyticalExaminer AnalyticalExaminer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by holly2325 View Post
I think your logic is solid here. An atty would only poly statements that could be interpreted as true. For example, CR would poly to "I have no memory of the evening" (he doesn't have a memory but he knows because someone told him), MB would poly to "I watched her walk out the door (doesn't say with who) and MB may also poly to "Do you want to party" (she may have also said ,CR gave me the craziest pill at Sports, you should try one) but he would leave that out. JR may poly to "I watched her round the corner"
Except JR has said that LS rounded the corner alone on foot, MB said she left alone, and CR has claimed memory loss only from the time they left the bar.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to AnalyticalExaminer For This Useful Post:
  #80  
Old 09-23-2011, 02:43 PM
AnalyticalExaminer AnalyticalExaminer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
CS/RS detective goes public. Former NYPD detective BD.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/good_day_...-case-20110923
The key takeaway from this interview, in my opinion: more evidence that drugs (he specifically mentions pills like xanax) are at issue (though he also acknowledges the possibility of a crime of opportunity). The negative comments about BPD are interesting, but I wouldn't take them at face value, necessarily. I hope, in light of stuff like this - http://thinkprogress.org/media/2009/...l-couric-imus/ - that he helps rather than hurts.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to AnalyticalExaminer For This Useful Post:
  #81  
Old 09-23-2011, 02:44 PM
holly2325 holly2325 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
CS/RS detective goes public. Former NYPD detective BD.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/good_day_...-case-20110923
Well, that was interesting. Funny that his major push was toward a relationship to narcotics. Did you find it weird that he doesn't suggest the possibility that LS didn't leave 5 North. God, I hope this guy can deliver.

I hope he has resources to look at forensics News International style: phone records, DMV records, credit card receipts.
The Following User Says Thank You to holly2325 For This Useful Post:
  #82  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:02 PM
holly2325 holly2325 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalyticalExaminer View Post
The key takeaway from this interview, in my opinion: more evidence that drugs (he specifically mentions pills like xanax) are at issue (though he also acknowledges the possibility of a crime of opportunity). The negative comments about BPD are interesting, but I wouldn't take them at face value, necessarily. I hope, in light of stuff like this - http://thinkprogress.org/media/2009/...l-couric-imus/ - that he helps rather than hurts.
That was totally uncool the way he openly criticized BPD. And the reference to Gomer Pyle made no sense. I think he meant Barney Fife, but not a time to be cute anyway.
I would get that vid taken down. Bad first impression.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to holly2325 For This Useful Post:
  #83  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:27 PM
Jupiter812 Jupiter812 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,745
Quote:
Originally Posted by holly2325 View Post
Well, that was interesting. Funny that his major push was toward a relationship to narcotics. Did you find it weird that he doesn't suggest the possibility that LS didn't leave 5 North. God, I hope this guy can deliver.

I hope he has resources to look at forensics News International style: phone records, DMV records, credit card receipts.
Mostly I found it disheartening about her possibly leaving because it makes random abduction more likely. Given the link AE posted above, this guy's shtick to stand out as a tv guest is to ridicule others.

I find some comfort if what he said is true that he has four private dicks in Bloomington, one of them a former Lt. Detective and head of Zodiac. A Mike Chervil or something like that. I know chervil is an herb.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jupiter812 For This Useful Post:
  #84  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:31 PM
AnalyticalExaminer AnalyticalExaminer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
A Mike Chervil or something like that. I know chervil is an herb.
a very sage observation
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to AnalyticalExaminer For This Useful Post:
  #85  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:40 PM
Jupiter812 Jupiter812 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,745
Quote:
Originally Posted by holly2325 View Post
I think your logic is solid here. An atty would only poly statements that could be interpreted as true. For example, CR would poly to "I have no memory of the evening" (he doesn't have a memory but he knows because someone told him), MB would poly to "I watched her walk out the door (doesn't say with who) and MB may also poly to "Do you want to party" (she may have also said ,CR gave me the craziest pill at Sports, you should try one) but he would leave that out. JR may poly to "I watched her round the corner"
(could be in the back of a car or over someone's shoulder)

I would love to see each of them give these statements under oath.

But given all that I think the odds are higher for JR beating a poly than for him to have the patience at 4:00 in the morning to watch a barefoot girl walk to the corner.
Thanks for the poly examples. I get it now. Another instructional moment for me.

High odds equal low probability, yes? So you think it's more likely JR watched her than passed his poly? I think it's more likely that CR had memory loss than JR watched her.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jupiter812 For This Useful Post:
  #86  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:44 PM
elmomom elmomom is offline
I may lean, but I sit on a fence
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NYC transplant to rural PA
Posts: 2,343
I do think it is time for the family to start putting a little spotlight (pressure) on BPD. I, for one, do not think they (either BPD or the parents) know much at all, and it is probably time to at least start answering some questions publicly to get the case moving again. So I am glad that Bo is a bit critical at this juncture.
__________________
I have left the building.
The Following User Says Thank You to elmomom For This Useful Post:
  #87  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:52 PM
holly2325 holly2325 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
Thanks for the poly examples. I get it now. Another instructional moment for me.

High odds equal low probability, yes? So you think it's more likely JR watched her than passed his poly? I think it's more likely that CR had memory loss than JR watched her.
No, I find it more probable that he beat a poly than that he saw LS walk to the corner. IMO the odds (for) beating a poly are better than the odds (for) watching 5 minutes while a barefoot LS walks all the way to the corner.

There are odds for and odds against.

And yes, I agree with you I think the odds for CR having memory loss are better than the odds for JR watching LS walk to the corner.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to holly2325 For This Useful Post:
  #88  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:53 PM
doubtingthomas doubtingthomas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
Mostly I found it disheartening about her possibly leaving because it makes random abduction more likely. Given the link AE posted above, this guy's shtick to stand out as a tv guest is to ridicule others.

I find some comfort if what he said is true that he has four private dicks in Bloomington, one of them a former Lt. Detective and head of Zodiac. A Mike Chervil or something like that. I know chervil is an herb.
What is Zodiac? I do think it is time to get more experienced personnel involved.
The Following User Says Thank You to doubtingthomas For This Useful Post:
  #89  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:59 PM
mamamia54 mamamia54 is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,843
What a video lol, however the man has a point, he's looking into what happened to Lauren, not how good he's gonna look at the end if he finds her, just FIND HER, period!!
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mamamia54 For This Useful Post:
  #90  
Old 09-23-2011, 04:28 PM
imkeylime imkeylime is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 902
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalyticalExaminer View Post
On the issue of what is a fact: We know that all three 5N POI have taken polygraphs, most or all of which were privately-administered. We don't know what they were asked, or whether they told the truth, but I think it's a good assumption that pretty much anything they have told LE they also told to the poly administrator, and that they probably were only poly'd on things that were true. Therefore, I think that we can assume it's probable that most or all of what we have heard from LE and the POI's attorneys, and perhaps also what we have heard from the POI via other parties, is true. This includes JR watching LS walk off, from wherever he did so, and CR's memory loss (though how precisely that was subject to a poly might be open to question). It is of course entirely possible that these things are not true - we're all rightly somewhat skeptical about them - and maybe even probable given the family's questioning. But for purposes of helping to figure out what happened, which I think is the purpose of this forum, I think it might benefit us to try to come up with some thoughts based on the assumption that they are, even if we might prefer for whatever reason to believe that they are not. That is my personal belief.
I see your point, AE. I'm rather speculative by nature, but I believe we need to accept the polygraphs at this point, whether privately or LE-administered. But do you know that CR took a privately administered polygraph? I missed that somehow ... maybe I misunderstood because RS said how he should take an LE-administered one?

It's possible to beat a polygraph, based on what I've read, but I can't see them all doing that (or one in particular, even). Also, some attorneys give polygraphs in order to gauge a client's truthfulness. I do know from the MI case I follow that holding one's breath throws a polygraph, but the polygrapher knows when a person is doing that.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to imkeylime For This Useful Post:
  #91  
Old 09-23-2011, 05:12 PM
imkeylime imkeylime is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 902
Well, having watched the video, I don't love how he talked about an LE department he may be working with. Ouch.

But, in terms of drug involvement and LS leaving 5 North: maybe she did ask MB if he wanted to party, and then someone lured her somewhere by asking her the same thing. She may have not been thinking clearly at that point ...

Last edited by imkeylime; 09-23-2011 at 06:46 PM. Reason: typo
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to imkeylime For This Useful Post:
  #92  
Old 09-23-2011, 05:52 PM
LongTallTexan LongTallTexan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 162
Anyone know if JW was at the concert? I read on here I believe that he was sighted back in town since school started? Why...is he still enrolled or finished?
The Following User Says Thank You to LongTallTexan For This Useful Post:
  #93  
Old 09-23-2011, 06:04 PM
AbbeyR AbbeyR is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalyticalExaminer View Post
On the issue of what is a fact: We know that all three 5N POI have taken polygraphs, most or all of which were privately-administered. We don't know what they were asked, or whether they told the truth, but I think it's a good assumption that pretty much anything they have told LE they also told to the poly administrator, and that they probably were only poly'd on things that were true. Therefore, I think that we can assume it's probable that most or all of what we have heard from LE and the POI's attorneys, and perhaps also what we have heard from the POI via other parties, is true. This includes JR watching LS walk off, from wherever he did so, and CR's memory loss (though how precisely that was subject to a poly might be open to question). It is of course entirely possible that these things are not true ....
<snipped>

I'm not sure I'm following the logic... If all we know is that they took privately administered polygraphs, but we don't know what they were asked or the results, how can we assume anything?
The Following User Says Thank You to AbbeyR For This Useful Post:
  #94  
Old 09-23-2011, 06:32 PM
phantomthought phantomthought is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
CS/RS detective goes public. Former NYPD detective BD.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/good_day_...-case-20110923
I guess this case has officially turned into a circus.They have sent in the clown
__________________
Everybody cooperates,but nobody talks.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to phantomthought For This Useful Post:
  #95  
Old 09-23-2011, 07:14 PM
AbbeyR AbbeyR is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjessie View Post
2:51:

I know many have discounted the 'activity' as verbalized by LE as just a choice of verb or that it doen't mean anything (very possible), but that video holds some answers for me...but here's why. We all have debated over every scenario, what fact vs. rumor vs. perception vs. misreadings and/or straight out confusion....but at the end of the day, I can't 'believe' anything for certain or 'discount' anything for certain...we just don't know. BUT, what we do know if that at that last sighting, Lauren (presumably alive) was truly last 'seen'...meaning by camera. In the same general vicinity, she lost her keys/wallet thingy, and LE (instead of stating she is seen "making their way" and referencing CR), instead they choose to use different terminology and do NOT identify CR this time...<snipped> I believe that LE and CS/RS have a pretty good idea the 'how' or 'what' based on the "activity" in that 2:51 vid, just not the whole story, specifically who and where. Just my thoughts....
I hope you are right... As time has passed I've come to think that the most likely explanation is probably the simplest one - that it's just the most accurate description they could give. Picture how quickly someone would pass by a security camera in a dark alley and the low quality of most security cameras... If LE couldn't identify the basic features of the white truck, what time (or how many times) it passed by a camera on a well lit street, it seems likely to me that they didn't identify CR as the 'companion' because they couldn't, based on the video footage alone. That doesn't mean that they don't know who Lauren was with, or where they ended up next, just that they didn't get this info from the video, and weren't filling in the blanks for us.

But true, we can't discount anything... I hope they do have more of the story.
The Following User Says Thank You to AbbeyR For This Useful Post:
  #96  
Old 09-23-2011, 07:34 PM
bx2 bx2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
CS/RS detective goes public. Former NYPD detective BD.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/good_day_...-case-20110923
Highlights for me:

"we have a lot of information that we'll be turning over to the District Attorney out there and the police department"

"the drug usage on this college campus has a direct effect, I believe, to her being missing at this time"

Indiana is also a state that allows the one party consent that he mentions.


The potshots at the chief of police are definitely head scratching, but BPD's silence isn't exactly ground breaking. I think it's a one way street with them, that they will run with anything the PI's team can give them, but they aren't going to be giving out anything that they are doing.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to bx2 For This Useful Post:
  #97  
Old 09-23-2011, 08:23 PM
AbbeyR AbbeyR is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedrosmom View Post
HT should be a POI if she's not already. I think she was jealous of Lauren, a beautiful blonde, natural, tiny, sweet, loved by so many. I have yet to see her shed a tear, just babbling to the media, LOVING to hear herself talk. That chick is bad news IMO. She orchestrated this case the way she wanted it to go. That, IMO, messed up LE's investigation from the start. They actually believed her. For all we know she had Lauren's phone most of the night, then after she saw her condition at Smallwood, planted it at Kilroys. I think LE will find that she was involved in a sabotaging way (nothing to do with her going missing).
It seems like there's a wee leap between 'HT has not cried enough on camera to prove her sincerity to a random person on the internet' -- and the whole 'sabotaging the investigation' part. IMO.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to AbbeyR For This Useful Post:
  #98  
Old 09-23-2011, 08:57 PM
Jupiter812 Jupiter812 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,745
Quote:
Originally Posted by bx2 View Post
Highlights for me:

"we have a lot of information that we'll be turning over to the District Attorney out there and the police department"

"the drug usage on this college campus has a direct effect, I believe, to her being missing at this time"

Indiana is also a state that allows the one party consent that he mentions.



The potshots at the chief of police are definitely head scratching, but BPD's silence isn't exactly ground breaking. I think it's a one way street with them, that they will run with anything the PI's team can give them, but they aren't going to be giving out anything that they are doing.

Comments he made related to your take-aways:

The "stuff" they are uncovering is providing a "direction." Too bad it's not revealing answers.

The example he gave of someone not on tape was interesting (added for a dramatic effect? POI quote?): "Look, I really didnít want to hurt her but all of a sudden she stopped breathing.Ē
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jupiter812 For This Useful Post:
  #99  
Old 09-23-2011, 10:17 PM
bloom54 bloom54 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bloomington IN
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamia54 View Post
What a video lol, however the man has a point, he's looking into what happened to Lauren, not how good he's gonna look at the end if he finds her, just FIND HER, period!!
Despite what he SAID re that, he does appear to be a bit of a grandstander... seems to me that dissing local LE isn't the way to get the job done in town.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to bloom54 For This Useful Post:
  #100  
Old 09-23-2011, 11:07 PM
Tr. Tr. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloom54 View Post
Despite what he SAID re that, he does appear to be a bit of a grandstander... seems to me that dissing local LE isn't the way to get the job done in town.
He's working independently of BPD..doesn't really matter to him what they think. They can't legally share details (beyond what's been made public) of the case with him can they? maybe he realizes they haven't much to share anyway.
Either or he needs a shave.
The Following User Says Thank You to Tr. For This Useful Post:
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22 SheWhoMustNotBeNamed Lauren Spierer General Discussion Threads 803 08-29-2011 03:33 AM
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #18 bessie Lauren Spierer General Discussion Threads 655 07-22-2011 03:19 AM
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #15 bessie Lauren Spierer General Discussion Threads 639 07-05-2011 09:32 AM
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #11 bessie Lauren Spierer General Discussion Threads 737 06-26-2011 12:05 PM
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #7 bessie Lauren Spierer General Discussion Threads 707 06-19-2011 08:51 PM


© Copyright Websleuths 1999-2012 New To Site? Need Help?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:51 PM.

Advertisements

Pre-Order Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony today!