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Conrad Murray Did Dr. Murray kill Michael Jackson?


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  #326  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:08 PM
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  #327  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:11 PM
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I no more believe White completed this at 11 pm last night.

This is another way to sandbag the state.

They didnt want Walgren to have a chance to confer with DS.

Snakes.

IMOO
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:24 PM
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abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
So the plan is to resume trial at 8:45 am tomorrow w/ direct examination of Dr. Paul White & once defense is done probably recess 4 weekend
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:26 PM
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OH man! I have an appointment scheduled with a doctor to see about having a colonoscopy. UGH!

Now that seems like the worst procedure in the world, to me!

I've prepped patients with the gallon of "juice' that must be taken the day before...
but that's as far as I've allowed myself to go.

But I had a complete physical 2 weeks ago and the doc there told me I MUST have one!

They put you out for it? That's good to hear!

I'm very pale, blonde, fair-skinned, & have no visible eyebrows practically...
so I feel like I have to wear eyeliner & mascara or I look like an albino.

Since I can't keep my eye make-up from running into my eyes and down my cheeks when I go
swimming, to the gym, during my line dancing classes & my 'dancing for the health of it' classes...
I was advised to get eyeliner & eyebrow tattoos. So I did! Plus, it gets up to 115 degrees here in AZ!!

As you can probably tell by now, I am not doing well nor happy with aging!
But I must say that the cosmetic procedures have helped me a lot in dealing with it!
I was the same way, peace, about my colonoscopy -- scared me to death because all I could think of was how horrible it would feel. Poppycock and horsefeathers! Truly. The procedure is easier than giving yourself a hot salt water gargle for a sore throat -- I HATE those dayam things, but I do feel better after the gargle. Ugh, I hate 'em. <shiver>

The standard of care, at least in Raleigh, NC, is they will always, always knock you out cold unless you ask them not to do it (idiocy, perhaps, or a touch of masochism??). And worse (IMO, at least), if you are not knocked out, you can watch the entire procedure on the telly -- yes, you can follow the yellow brick road, right on up that colon if you wanna. Ack. My next door neighbor has his that way (with a valium drip) every time. Freak.

There is a down side, however, and it's the prep. Here comes the tmi part: for me, the time spent in the loo is a breeze compared to the carp you have to drink. Yee-uck. But it doesn't hurt, it's just very salty and yucky. (My husband's instructions were to take a couple of whopping doses of laxative & chase it with gatorade -- nothing like as bad.) We had different gastro's; he got propofol & I got fentanyl and versed.

So you may not have to drink the salty stuff. Comparatively, the day of the procedure is a slam-dunk breeze. It's wham-bam up your bum & out in a jiff-jiff-jiffy. They're all so nice & wanting to reassure you. That day was just fine. A good day.

And like you, I'm one big recessive gene: blond straight hair, fair skin, blue eyes and blond eyelashes & eyebrows. I also would like tatoo'ed eyeliner & eyebrows, but I'm such a chicken, I never checked into it. Sounded too ouch-y to me.

Go for it girl -- you'll feel much better when the gastro gives you your good, healthy news. And it does need to be done, you know that....

===> Please excuse the lengthy O/T but this is a very important health matter & needed to be said, to all. <===
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  #330  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:40 PM
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I was the same way, peace, about my colonoscopy -- scared me to death because all I could think of was how horrible it would feel. Poppycock and horsefeathers! Truly. The procedure is easier than giving yourself a hot salt water gargle for a sore throat -- I HATE those dayam things, but I do feel better after the gargle. Ugh, I hate 'em. <shiver>

The standard of care, at least in Raleigh, NC, is they will always, always knock you out cold unless you ask them not to do it (idiocy, perhaps, or a touch of masochism??). And worse (IMO, at least), if you are not knocked out, you can watch the entire procedure on the telly -- yes, you can follow the yellow brick road, right on up that colon if you wanna. Ack. My next door neighbor has his that way (with a valium drip) every time. Freak.

There is a down side, however, and it's the prep. Here comes the tmi part: for me, the time spent in the loo is a breeze compared to the carp you have to drink. Yee-uck. But it doesn't hurt, it's just very salty and yucky. (My husband's instructions were to take a couple of whopping doses of laxative & chase it with gatorade -- nothing like as bad.) We had different gastro's; he got propofol & I got fentanyl and versed.

So you may not have to drink the salty stuff. Comparatively, the day of the procedure is a slam-dunk breeze. It's wham-bam up your bum & out in a jiff-jiff-jiffy. They're all so nice & wanting to reassure you. That day was just fine. A good day.

And like you, I'm one big recessive gene: blond straight hair, fair skin, blue eyes and blond eyelashes & eyebrows. I also would like tatoo'ed eyeliner & eyebrows, but I'm such a chicken, I never checked into it. Sounded too ouch-y to me.

Go for it girl -- you'll feel much better when the gastro gives you your good, healthy news. And it does need to be done, you know that....

===> Please excuse the lengthy O/T but this is a very important health matter & needed to be said, to all. <===
Very very funny, borndem!!!

I love your descriptions & terminology!

I think you've relieved some of the stress for me! Thank you!!!

Re the tattoo'd eyeliner & eyebrows, it didn't hurt at all! There's numbing cream that's applied to the areas,
so I guess that takes away any pain. I had never gotten a tat before, so wasn't sure what to expect.

My mom (who had a low pain threshhold) had both done several years ago and so many of the older ladies where
I live have had them done... so I figured with their thin soft skin and them saying it didn't hurt, I could give it a try.

I love it so much and am so glad I did it. So good to have my eyeliner and eyebrows always there... even while swimming and sweating!!!

Last edited by peace9274; 10-27-2011 at 10:52 PM.
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  #331  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:51 PM
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A propofol software program concerning the amount found in blood and 2 urine samples.

Just dropped it on Walgren like a load of bricks without warning.

I promise I do NOT understand all of these late discoveries. I really really don't.

IMO
I guess they think they will have to play dirty to win -- and, IMHO, as we all know, this ain't the first time.

And I don't like it that White's testimony for the DT will be the last they hear for the whole weekend. Mmmpppfff.

Talk about getting no sleep. Our poor DA hunkeroo... and he'll get it right, too. I hope he is planning a big vacay after this thing is done -- probably just in time for Christmas....

Yes, I'm a bit pzzzed myself ........
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:03 PM
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Why thank you my friend.

As long as people keep guessing that I am way younger than I really am I ain't gonna worry about it.


IMO
Yeah, Girrrrrrl -- fool 'em and drool 'em. Enjoy your sneaky self!!!
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  #333  
Old 10-27-2011, 11:11 PM
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Well, borndem...

Looks like everyone else has left.

Think we chased them away with our colonoscopy talk?

I just kinda keep this link open, while doing other RL stuff.

Speaking of addictions:
I don't dare go to another case/forum... I swore I'd lay off true crime for awhile after the CA Case.

Then it was Celina Cass, and now this one.

I need to start going to the gym again on a daily basis and attending the work-out dance classes that I've signed
up for (& haven't gone to) and quit sitting here for hours and days on end, while there's a case or trial going on!!!
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:12 PM
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Yeah, Girrrrrrl -- fool 'em and drool 'em. Enjoy your sneaky self!!!
I just want to tell you Borndem..I just love your personality and the way you compose your post.

You make me laugh out loud when there is no one here but me and my poochies. Hubby is asleep and I better head that way myself.

I wouldnt want to miss a moment of White's "riveting" testimony ya know.

Goodnight everyone! Take care and I will 'see' you all tomorrow.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:17 PM
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abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
More exc tidbits: software's creation was finalized at 11p yesterday by Dr. White; offers diagrams w/ urine levels in respect 2 blood levels

Well, well, well. I'm a retired programmer with a little true story:

I had written a little program to do something -- C.R.S. creeps in here (can't remember shizz) -- and my boss's boss was looking at the report it produced & said it just didn't look right. Well, I poked & prodded it, and it was in perfect health, and I told him so (very nicely, of course). And he said he still didn't like the figures on it...So, I was finally at my wits' & temper's end, and so I just asked him, "Well what do you want it to say?"

Programs are like statistics -- they can say it however you please...

Remember that tomorrow, sports fans...
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  #336  
Old 10-27-2011, 11:35 PM
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Dr. Drew agrees with Dr. Waldman. And says CM should have contacted Dr. Klein.
Oh really? What are these guys all like former Senator Bill Frist, who thought it was A OK to diagnose Terri Schiavo via a doctored videotape? None of these clowns should be making diagnoses of a patient without examining said patient.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:39 PM
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Well, well, well. I'm a retired programmer with a little true story:

I had written a little program to do something -- C.R.S. creeps in here (can't remember shizz) -- and my boss's boss was looking at the report it produced & said it just didn't look right. Well, I poked & prodded it, and it was in perfect health, and I told him so (very nicely, of course). And he said he still didn't like the figures on it...So, I was finally at my wits' & temper's end, and so I just asked him, "Well what do you want it to say?"

Programs are like statistics -- they can say it however you please...

Remember that tomorrow, sports fans...
Thanks for that story.

I will remember that tomorrow!

Private office doctors, when they're being sued or need to go to court to testify, can change
their progress notes & documentation in their patients' charts to whatever they want it to say, also!!!

The doctor could just take out the page he doesn't want anyone to see and write a new one,
dating it the same as the one he threw out!

But it's not always a safe thing to do, as the lab reports and ARs won't lie or CYA for him.

Hospital charts are not as easy to change, because all of the staff write their progress notes right
after each other, so that they're in chronological order.

Last edited by peace9274; 10-27-2011 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:41 PM
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I missed you.

Oh my goodness Outofstate, please don't ever rely on the nightly THs to update you on the day's testimony. By the time they get through twisting, omitting and embellishing it..........it becomes unrecognizable.

Well I have heard that Dr. Klein does masterful work and if I wanted botox or whatever, I would certainly go to him if I could afford him.

But I am very comfortable with how I look now so I guess I wont be considering that anytime soon. lol

IMO
How sweet!

I would give my eye teeth to have seen Walgren cross Waldman!

Dr. Klein was Liz Taylor's dermatologist also, IIRC. I guess he is the "go to" guy in Hollywood.

My dermatologist uses the botox sparingly; I can still raise my eyebrows, lol. But the nasty deep wrinkle that used to crease my forehead is no longer visible. It's just a bit of maintenance work that makes me feel better. And, it really doesn't hurt much. If it did, I'd be once and done!

I should be around tomorrow. I need a dose of Walgren before the weekend!
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:47 PM
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I just want to tell you Borndem..I just love your personality and the way you compose your post.

You make me laugh out loud when there is no one here but me and my poochies. Hubby is asleep and I better head that way myself.

I wouldnt want to miss a moment of White's "riveting" testimony ya know.

Goodnight everyone! Take care and I will 'see' you all tomorrow.
Well, as long as you're one of the main brains of the joint, I'll try to be the comic relief from time to time.

Thanks for the remarks -- made me feel goooood!

Yes, for us folks here in the Far East, we need our beauty sleep, and oh, so much more (speakin' for myself & my recessive genes...)

We have just got to get the jurors thinking about why they are here. And most juries are very proud of themselves -- they know that they're the only ones besides the principals who get to hear & see everything first-hand. And they're often a little pride-ful about it, and that's good, I think. They ARE the ones! And we do need to end this thing so they won't start to resent the responsibility they have been given.

Let's just assume they are at least as smart as we are, and are not to be fooled or led astray... Please make it so!

Night, night blueeyes. Yep, see ya tomorrow, girrrrlfriends! (((hugs)))
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:53 PM
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Oh really? What are these guys all like former Senator Bill Frist, who thought it was A OK to diagnose Terri Schiavo via a doctored videotape? None of these clowns should be making diagnoses of a patient without examining said patient.

Oh, puh-leeeeze - Frist?? Ack. Scary, too. IMO. <shiver and shake>

I agree, big-time o/o/state, big-time.


ETA: O/T Now I'll be up all night....the Cards just tied the game in the bottom of the 9th. Fooey. Dayammit. My son played ball with Josh Hamilton of the Rangers from Little League through H.S. Varsity. Same teams for 10 years. Super guy, true five-skill player with size 19 feet!
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:00 AM
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Thanks for that story.

I will remember that tomorrow!

Private office doctors, when they're being sued or need to go to court to testify, can change
their progress notes & documentation in their patients' charts to whatever they want it to say, also!!!

The doctor could just take out the page he doesn't want anyone to see and write a new one,
dating it the same as the one he threw out!

But it's not always a safe thing to do, as the lab reports and ARs won't lie or CYA for him.

Hospital charts are not as easy to change, because all of the staff write their progress notes right
after each other, so that they're in chronological order.
I am so naive. Nothing is sacred, nothing....
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:09 AM
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Oh, puh-leeeeze - Frist?? Ack. Scary, too. IMO. <shiver and shake>

I agree, big-time o/o/state, big-time.


ETA: O/T Now I'll be up all night....the Cards just tied the game in the bottom of the 9th. Fooey. Dayammit. My son played ball with Josh Hamilton of the Rangers from Little League through H.S. Varsity. Same teams for 10 years. Super guy, true five-skill player with size 19 feet!
Yep... I saw that, too. I would've never thought the Cards could've pulled that
& tied the game at the bottom of the 9th with 2 outs even!!!

Now Rangers are ahead 2 again!!!
Cards up again now.

But I'm 3 hours earlier than you are, so I'll definitely be up in time for the start of court tomorrow.
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:17 AM
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Oh, puh-leeeeze - Frist?? Ack. Scary, too. IMO. <shiver and shake>

I agree, big-time o/o/state, big-time.


ETA: O/T Now I'll be up all night....the Cards just tied the game in the bottom of the 9th. Fooey. Dayammit. My son played ball with Josh Hamilton of the Rangers from Little League through H.S. Varsity. Same teams for 10 years. Super guy, true five-skill player with size 19 feet!

I meant to add that that's cool about your son playing with Josh Hamilton. Does your son still play ball?

Reminds me of my son going all through school with John Meyer (the singer).
They were in plays together since the time they were 12 yrs old and in "My Fair Lady"
at community theater... and all the other plays thru HS. They played in local bands together, also.

John Meyer went on to be a famous grammy winner.
My son will be getting his masters in film studies from NYU in January &
writes the Documentary Channel Blog (and film reviews & articles for others).
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:08 AM
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Yeah, I like my wrinkles even better today than I did before this botox conversation started on here. In fact, I may just name a couple of my most loyal ones...
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Old 10-28-2011, 08:21 AM
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Isn't she an alcoholic? Nobody seems to understand that most dancers have a shelf life of about 15 yrs. MJ had been working since the age of 6 or younger. He had Lupus and a lot of procedures. I have watched people getting botox and I think I would want something for pain, because sticking needles in your face has to hurt.
Demerol is pretty powerful, there are other pain meds that are not as strong. However, MJ may have needed something that strong because he obviously had such a high tolerance of drugs.
JVM screams about everything, what else is new? I get the heebie-jeebies when I have to listen to her.
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Old 10-28-2011, 08:22 AM
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abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
More exc tidbits: software's creation was finalized at 11p yesterday by Dr. White; offers diagrams w/ urine levels in respect 2 blood levels
I don't understand how this new program's results can be admitted this late in the trial. I could see if the reason for it was due to some discovery violation on the other side but that doesn't appear to me to be what has happened. Sounds to me like it is something Dr. White just finished doing night before last and now defense wants to use it in the trial.

I'm not aware of anything that happened mid trial (new prosecution theory or new evidence just then introduced beyond discovery deadline) that would have just then made a light bulb click on so Dr. White started writing this new modeling program. For that matter, how did Dr. White all of the sudden become proficient at writing these programs when he has in the past relied on and engaged Dr. Shafer to do the modeling? Something sounds very hinky to me about all of this.
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Old 10-28-2011, 08:38 AM
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I don't understand how this new program's results can be admitted this late in the trial. I could see if the reason for it was due to some discovery violation on the other side but that doesn't appear to me to be what has happened. Sounds to me like it is something Dr. White just finished doing night before last and now defense wants to use it in the trial.

I'm not aware of anything that happened mid trial (new prosecution theory or new evidence just then introduced beyond discovery deadline) that would have just then made a light bulb click on so Dr. White started writing this new modeling program. For that matter, how did Dr. White all of the sudden become proficient at writing these programs when he has in the past relied on and engaged Dr. Shafer to do the modeling? Something sounds very hinky to me about all of this.
Good Morning Everyone!

The entire latest quick dump on the state seems very suspicious to me. FGS! Dr. Shafer turned his reports over months ago so whats the problem?

I am having a distinct problem in believing the DT is ethical and trustworthy.

Of course Judge Pastor is caught in the middle and doesn't want this to come up on appeal in case there is a conviction so he is letting the DT get it in.

It just seems very strange to me. First the incident about the defense being given one form and it was different than the one given to the state and then, secondly, we have the misleading incorrect graph by Waldman yesterday and then before the night ends we learn they have sprung a new software program on the State. The state has to be sick of all the shenanigans going on.

IMO
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Old 10-28-2011, 08:38 AM
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Just reading up here this AM what I missed. Dr. Shafer, a program, a weekend and he will check it out thoroughly. He'll prep Walgren with the right questions to ask. If that doesn't totally do the trick, count on the prosecution to put him up on rebuttal. He's the one who did the programming for White way back when.

So far, their major disagreement is about the drip. It will be interesting to hear.

Ahem, about the colonoscopy, had one, no problema. Off to sleep and it was over. I had what I'd call a "partial" colonoscopy which didn't go around the first tricky turn with my internist years ago. No sedation, nada. She quit when I got very uncomfortable, but there was no pain, just discomfort towards the end. DH once had a combo: colonoscopy followed by a minor bit of surgery. They "woke him up" after the first procedure so he could move to another table, position. Didn't remember any of it!
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Old 10-28-2011, 08:40 AM
Talina Talina is offline
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Originally Posted by TxLady2 View Post
Demerol is pretty powerful, there are other pain meds that are not as strong. However, MJ may have needed something that strong because he obviously had such a high tolerance of drugs.
JVM screams about everything, what else is new? I get the heebie-jeebies when I have to listen to her.
I'm thinking that it could be what you say but I think it is very likely that he has areas on his face that are overly sensitive to pain due to all the plastic surgeries has had in the past. IMO Lots of potential there for damaged nerve endings and scar tissue. At least my personal experience with damaged nerve endings and scar tissue being painful on my knee tell me that could be the case for him, particularly on the face which is by nature typically more sensitive to pain.

Then, to add to that, all of the injections for Botox and that other filler (forgot the name of it) were in areas of the body that are typically just a tad more sensitive (face, arm pits and groin areas sweat glands being injected - that just sounds painful to me).

As far as other dermatologists and addiction specialists weighing in on this issue...I say pfft to their face time. (I'm looking at you two clowns that were on JVM last night)

For one thing, they have no idea the details to the types of procedures Dr. Klein was doing on MJ, MJ's pain tolerance or lack thereof for whatever reason. Now, if Dr. Klein were to give a detailed interview about the procedures, his opinion on why this amount of demerol were called for, etc. and the other doctors then wanted to give their opinion, that would be a different matter altogether. Until then, they have no idea what they are talking about or even giving an opinion about.

So now, I will end with the words of wisdom from the learned Mr. Mesereau as he so eloquently asked JVM while she obviously had her fingers in her ears since he had to repeat it a few times:

What does any of this have to do with what happened on June 25, 2009?


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Old 10-28-2011, 08:49 AM
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borndem borndem is offline
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Great early-morning thoughts, Talina!!!

A good way to get us in the right frame of mind -- some kind of variation of, "Keep your eyes on the prize, Jury."

Walgren will somehow get that across to the jury whenever it will be that he gets the chance.... and do it more than once, methinks. We'll have to WAIT till Monday for that, dimmit.

I'm about to dash out the door to a study class -- I should be back around 1:00 -- 1:30, EST - so take notes if enny one is still awake after the DT direct gets going, and I'll see you Sleuthers later today.

And Good Morning, Gang!...............
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