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Conrad Murray Did Dr. Murray kill Michael Jackson?


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  #151  
Old 10-28-2011, 02:51 PM
Talina Talina is offline
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Get caught up with housework?
No.
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  #152  
Old 10-28-2011, 02:52 PM
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I have no doubt Dr. Shafer will be able to address any lingering doubts.

Walgren has to drive home that CM is guilty of all egregious violations against him - 17 of them which each by themselves can do it.

You all have a great weekend. Looking forward to cross on Monday.
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:53 PM
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No.
Well I know my hubby will happy when this is over. Poor thing has had late dinners almost every week night this trial has been on due to time difference as I am ET
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  #154  
Old 10-28-2011, 02:57 PM
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Well I know my hubby will happy when this is over. Poor thing has had late dinners almost every week night this trial has been on due to time difference as I am ET
The other day when we had a half day. I got off computer, made a grocery list and asked DH if he wanted to run some errands with me and go grocery shopping. He, of course, said no. ha

The next evening my daughter was over and we were talking about the trial and she asked something about some delays and I made a comment about it only being a half day the day before. Hubby said "I knew it!!! She just casually asks me if I want to go grocery shopping with her and I thought hmmm what about that trial that she puts ahead of everything else right now. I just knew she hadn't decided she has other priorities". hilarious
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  #155  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:02 PM
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Apparently I spaced off during part of this testimony.

Because what I got out of it was that the trials were done under strict monitoring conditions.

The graphs were made using + - 50%, so it could have happened this way or not but it's pretty much half and half.

Yes Dr. White agreed with Flannegan, No Dr. White did not agree with Flannegan.

Propofol could have or could not have been self administered.

Lorazapam could have been taken by mouth or maybe not.

Dr. White read off the certifications that are to be had when administering propofol, and he did it at Flannegan's request. Pointing out once again the grievous standard of care violations Murray carried out.

So...what did defense achieve with their big shot expert? What am I missing?
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  #156  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:05 PM
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O/T The little boy Robert Wood, Jr that Soulmagent was searching for today has been found alive.
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  #157  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:05 PM
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OMG! I am so pumped up. I cant hardly wait for Monday to come.

Hubby is off on vacation too but he knows I am following this case minute by minute so I will get to see the cross! Yippee!

Come Monday it ain't gonna be pretty for Dr. White.

The gloves will come off. lol

IMO
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Old 10-28-2011, 03:09 PM
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Apparently I spaced off during part of this testimony.

Because what I got out of it was that the trials were done under strict monitoring conditions.

The graphs were made using + - 50%, so it could have happened this way or not but it's pretty much half and half.

Yes Dr. White agreed with Flannegan, No Dr. White did not agree with Flannegan.

Propofol could have or could not have been self administered.

Lorazapam could have been taken by mouth or maybe not.

Dr. White read off the certifications that are to be had when administering propofol, and he did it at Flannegan's request. Pointing out once again the grievous standard of care violations Murray carried out.

So...what did defense achieve with their big shot expert? What am I missing?
That Dr. White is convinced that his simulations are more reasonable than Dr. Shafer's and his simulations are supported by the evidence whereas no evidence supports Dr. Shafer's, including Dr. Murray's statement to police (as if Dr. Murray's statement can be relied upon). Since it is inconceivable to Dr. White that any doctor would even think of the actions Dr. Murray would have had to do based on Dr. Shafer's simulations, it just couldn't have happened. No medical doctor would have done what Dr. Shafer suggests happened.

Nevermind that there is no evidence of MJ having ever touched any of the propofol bottles, syringes etc. among a whole laundry list of other things that contradict the evidence supporting his simulation.


I can't wait for Monday.
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  #159  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:18 PM
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That Dr. White is convinced that his simulations are more reasonable than Dr. Shafer's and his simulations are supported by the evidence whereas no evidence supports Dr. Shafer's, including Dr. Murray's statement to police (as if Dr. Murray's statement can be relied upon). Since it is inconceivable to Dr. White that any doctor would even think of the actions Dr. Murray would have had to do based on Dr. Shafer's simulations, it just couldn't have happened. No medical doctor would have done what Dr. Shafer suggests happened.

Nevermind that there is no evidence of MJ having ever touched any of the propofol bottles, syringes etc. among a whole laundry list of other things that contradict the evidence supporting his simulation.


I can't wait for Monday.
Oh yes, graphgate. (I have forgotten who came up with that, but thank you).
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  #160  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:21 PM
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O/T The little boy Robert Wood, Jr that Soulmagent was searching for today has been found alive.

WOW! Hoorayyyy!
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  #161  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:22 PM
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Oh yes, graphgate. (I have forgotten who came up with that, but thank you).
Oh, I hadn't heard that one. That's good.
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  #162  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:34 PM
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No.
Yessssss!!

(To your answer, I mean!!)...
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Old 10-28-2011, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Credence View Post

Wow!!
Just got back, 3:35pm, EST -- I missed it all.....or did I??? I'll go back & see...

But first I have to find that sock to cram in JVM's mouth....

So now I come back to this wonderful Floyd Lawson Lookalike Contest winner!

Ding-Ding-Ding!!!!

This crowd nailed it for us all. Ahhh, The Barber of Seville....er, ah, I mean Mayberry. Oh, yea, oh yea, oh yea.

Thanks!
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  #164  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:50 PM
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GOOD MORNING EVERYONE!

WOW... a lot of very interesting thoughts & opinions this morning.... here & the previous thread!

If I thought the thread from yesterday was going to continue this morning, I wouldn't have posted the TMI
last night about my son, my cosmetic procedures & my up-coming colonoscopy... LOL ... altho I do appreciate any &
all info on how yours went. And since I feel I know some of you so well now, I like hearing about your RL, DHs & DC!

I hate that court may end early today! I've become so engrossed in this trial, that it's become the major part of my daily routine.
Everything else has been put on the back-burner! I'm still not prepared for doing the much needed house cleaning & much needed physical exercise!

And so... let the show begin!
BBM -- Well, peace my colon-cousin, that dirt, that dust, the little spots on the hardwoods and the gunk in the bathroom (mine, anyway) and those dirty towels will be faithfully waiting for you when this trial is over. That's the way it is in my house anyway....

A belated Good Morning to all Sleuthers! Altho it is pm here in the Far East...
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  #165  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:55 PM
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Ok I understand the delay now.

Now that Jean has explained it... I understand turning over the software program results late. It seems once Dr. Shafer finally got the DT outside lab to send their SOP to the state and then the state got the CORRECT results from their toxicologist then the DT had to scurry back and change their graphs since they had used those incorrect results from the outside lab before they knew it was incorrect.

What would the DT do if they didnt have Dr. Shafer to help them. LMAO!

From what Beth just said the DT has chunked the gastric contents results out and are now going with what was found in the urine.





Well, now ocean, if ya ain't got flexibility, ya ain't got shizzz!

Relax, maybe in a few weeks, they'll find the right way to nail poor little MJ.... I guess they're getting warmer, as you said, with Shafer's (er, ah, I mean Dr. Shafer's help.
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  #166  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:56 PM
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Just to add to this - I forgot: The infusion tube was also below his knee and he had a condom catheter on - so are we to believe he got up also without disturbing these? Oy vey!
Oh my.

I'm not a male, but just thinking about that makes me want 200mg of Demerol!
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Old 10-28-2011, 04:01 PM
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Oh my.

I'm not a male, but just thinking about that makes me want 200mg of Demerol!
LOL no, not a traditional cath. Just a kinda tight condom that drains to a bag. My ma had to put this on her father-in-law in the last month of his life.
Didn't hurt a bit, although they both almost died of embarrassment at first.
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Old 10-28-2011, 04:02 PM
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LOL no, not a traditional cath. Just a kinda tight condom that drains to a bag. My ma had to put this on her father-in-law in the last month of his life.
Didn't hurt a bit, although they both almost died of embarrassment at first.
Thanks for clearing that up, octobermoon!
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Old 10-28-2011, 04:03 PM
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I'm still cleaning up after the "other" trial! 3 years of my life that one took. Obviously, that's why I was way behind on this one.

As for what to do, I'll just reload my closet since it's been tiled and painted. All I have to do is press every item of clothing I own.

My thoughts will be on the cross examination of Dr. White. It's going to be awesome.

I hope we can all spend a moment this weekend opining on what Walgren could ask.

My choice is that he end with Shafer's 17 violations of standards of conduct and ask White which ones he believes Murray violated. Flanagan already mentioned the "elephant" in the room and White agreed it was a violation. Well, there are 16 more to go. This IS a standard of care case, anyway.

All Walgren's witnesses to standards of care agreed that, even IF MJ injected himself, it was because of Murray's bad behavior.

I also hope he can un-confuse the jury from today with his wonderful questioning techniques. Please, keep it simple!
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Old 10-28-2011, 04:05 PM
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I can't remember who said it on the previous thread, but s/he said that while watching IS yesterday morning,
it showed Dr Shafer going into the courthouse with ... I think ... Dr White!??!
.

That was I -- I saw it on IS during the time when they are outside the courtroom watching for the Jackson family to arrive.

This showing could have been a clip of Shafer & White when Shafer came for his original testimony -- since White had been there during those days earlier, but the IS'ers spoke as if it were yesterday, but since it hasn't been mentioned, I'm wondering if it may have been an older scene. Heyell, who knoze??
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Last edited by borndem; 10-28-2011 at 04:06 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #171  
Old 10-28-2011, 05:26 PM
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Ha! I was just in the local Walgreen's and "I'll be There" was playing on the PA system. I suspect a couple of jurors have also heard some of his music by accident...

Also, it seems like Dr. Dombrowski thinks Dr. White is FOS, but didn't want to come out and say it. I can't believe JVM interrupted Dr. Dombrowski to announced that Paris Hilton was leaving the courtroom. *rolls eyes*
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:38 PM
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The only way this makes any sense is if the DT concedes Murray lied about this to the cops. And there is that pesky jury instruction about disregarding everything a "witness" says if you find part of what he said not to be truthful. It seems to be a very slippery slope.
(Still reviewing since I missed all of the courtroom session today, so this remark is way late, but anyway...)

Ouch!! Very good point o/o/state!!

Think about it: when you hear someone tell what you know for sure is a lie, doesn't that make everything else he/she says, suspect?? Absolutely, I would say for nearly every one of us. Twice burned, and all that.

Good point!
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:39 PM
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Thirty-two plus years of marriage......I've lived for Fridays. I've always hated Mondays because Mr. would have to go back to work.
Mr. Amity gets off work, we enjoy a cup of coffee under the pav and discuss what plans we have for the weekend....whether it's working on the house or commitments we've made for a birthday party, shower, wedding etc.

It's a routine we both have looked forward to and have only broken 3 or 4 times during all those years.

How sad is this........
This Friday?
I CAN'T FRICKEN WAIT FOR MONDAY TO GET HERE!

There, I said it. But if any of you tell Mr. Amity I said it, I'll deny, deny, deny.

Colonoscopy: A walk in the park! OK, well, almost.
The worst part, at least for me is the time I had to spend in the bathroom with the whole household and two visiting cousins not only knowing why, but HEARING why.

Eyebrows: The first time my sister was dx'd (6 years ago), we all shaved off our eyebrows and wore cute, fun knitted caps whenever the family had a family gathering to attend.
She was soooo self-conscious that we all figured it was a way to help her feel better, feel like she would blend in better.
It worked and we are soooo glad we did it.
UNTIL....... at my age, eyebrows don't grow back like they were before.
Three hairs here, a firebreak, a few hairs there, another firebreak and instead of the hair coming in auburn/brown, those thick things came in jet black!

Because I was/am a very large woman (read: Obese) and because at the time I was going through some major hot flashes due to some medication, I went on a quest to find the most waterproof eyebrow pencil or powder I could find, that would not end up running down into my chin when I sweat especially during the summer.

After almost a four year search I finally found the perfect eyebrow liner.
I mean this stuff is Kryptonite!
A little over a week ago I slept in a little storage room (used to be a single/private room) at Loma Linda Hospital for two nights, no shower. Hot, HOT, stuffy room.
Never bothered to look in a mirror, just ran fingers through top of hair and pulled it back into a ponytail a couple times a day.
When I got home and got ready to take my shower, looked in the mirror and my eyebrows looked exactly like they did the morning I put them on 2.5 days prior!

Stila - Stay All Day Waterproof liquid eye liner.
Yes, I know it's eyeliner but the tip is soooo fine/thin that I was able to use it on my brows with no problem. I can actually draw little lines as fine as eyebrow hairs.
Just make sure you have no oil or moisturizer on the brows.....start with them clean and dry.

I bought the dark brown and it's dark enough that it blends in well with my black brows....gives them a more natural look rather than all jet black. Like very subtle highlighted hairs in the brow.
Speaking of brows, I best go take care of the strays that are coming in where they aren't supposed to be....like halfway up my forehead...... EEEEK!
This getting old thing sure ain't for sissys!
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:48 PM
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I'm still cleaning up after the "other" trial! 3 years of my life that one took. Obviously, that's why I was way behind on this one.

As for what to do, I'll just reload my closet since it's been tiled and painted. All I have to do is press every item of clothing I own.

My thoughts will be on the cross examination of Dr. White. It's going to be awesome.

I hope we can all spend a moment this weekend opining on what Walgren could ask.

My choice is that he end with Shafer's 17 violations of standards of conduct and ask White which ones he believes Murray violated. Flanagan already mentioned the "elephant" in the room and White agreed it was a violation. Well, there are 16 more to go. This IS a standard of care case, anyway.

All Walgren's witnesses to standards of care agreed that, even IF MJ injected himself, it was because of Murray's bad behavior.

I also hope he can un-confuse the jury from today with his wonderful questioning techniques. Please, keep it simple!
You know, really all Walgren has to ask Dr. White is, "have you ever given propofol to a patient in the patient's bedroom with no monitoring equipment, and no support staff?" or maybe would you ever? Either way that just drives home the fact that a defense witness would never do what Murray did.

And then he could clarify graphgate. By clarifying that yes that is exactly what Murray said he did, so the simulations Dr. Shaffer did were correct by defendant's own words.

Then point out all the standard of care violations and why that constitutes negligence.

HOME RUN......
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:53 PM
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Yes, Dr. White, these scenarios are inconceivable. This is also what Dr.Shafer said.

Now, how does this help defense? Dr. White just said how difficult it is to draw up the propofol into a syringe. I honestly do not think Flanagan has any idea that his questions do not solicit answers that help him.
Yes, Talina, we have been seeing/hearing this since the first day -- I'm no lawyer, but this just doesn't make one grain of sense to me, either.

And thank you and so many others for keeping me in the loop for all the testimony that I missed today!
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